Why do supposed "fans" hate Naruto?

[Guardian of the Rain]

Giving him credit is good, but you also have to criticise the bad parts. Otherwise it is indeed "worshipping".


15 years of quality? You wish.
You act as if he did everything by himself. He surely did a lot of great stuff, but the manga went rapidly downhill after the Pain-Arc.. which seems to be the same time one of his most important editors left, like I heard. Strange, isn't it?

And the last few years he spent with the war-arc cannot be called "quality". As well as the next-generation stuff. The children of the Naruto-characters are just lame fusions or complete clones of their parents, that's not creative.


Good, you know that they're there. That is at least something.


You call yourself a true fan but pirated Kishimoto's work? That's interesting.
But you do have a point, there are a lot of people who "bash" Kishimoto. He did good in the past, but criticism is absolutely needed. And there are enough people who paid lots of money over years, so of course some of them are frustrated and have all the right to be. Kishimoto did a lot of authorical mistakes that reduced the overall-quality of his work.


Okay, I guess you haven't seen many anime/manga then. Your naivete and optimism is impressive.
The Naruto-anime itself is the best example for how the series is "milked".

I agree with the statement of Bling Kai here, especially with the underlined part:

You know, the longer the series gets, the more and more inconsistencies and repetitions will occur, which reduces the authorical quality of the series too.


So you basically want the show to keep going just for the sake of not-ending it?
That's like keeping a suffering coma-patient alive just for the sake of living, no matter what "quality" it has. And I doubt that this is a healthy behavior.

Because you've chosen to have the decency to not result to name-calling and disrespect (except for the bold, which I forgive), I shall reply one more time.

All this talk about quality...this is a completely opinionated subject. I enjoyed EVERY single arc in the series. There were some boring chapters here and there, but even those were created out of the necessity to further the plot. You and I have no choice but to agree to disagree on this matter.

Criticism and bashing aren't the same. Bashing comes from a purely disrespectful and spiteful attitude. Criticism is void of insults.

Yes, I'm still a true fan, having had pirated his work. To make up for it, I've been buying volumes online whenever I can afford to. I will own them all one day. All the light novels, as well (not sure if Kishi would benefit from that because he's not the author of them).
And I was ignorant of how reading manga for free online even worked. Proof ->

You must be registered for see links

And I didn't mean to imply that fillers should continue for all eternity. I just don't see the point in rushing the completion of the canon anime. VERY few people, to my knowledge, have chosen to watch the anime only. Therefore, most of us have already read the manga and know the story. Not to mention Storm 4 has already fantastically animated the remainder of the story--although there are some differences.

In conclusion, I'm way too big on honor, respect, and gratitude to NOT come to Kishi's defense when others bash--not criticize--him.

If you acknowledge the fact that there's way more good to Naruto than there is bad, then that should be enough for you to withdraw your bashing.

 

[Bling Kai]

One of the worst aspects to Naruto itself (in my opinion) is the Will of Fire.

If you actually think about seriously, it makes this Manga even more trash.

Totally forgot what that is. I have been out of touch with the series for a good while, but I trust ya.

 

[SumnNarutoRelated]

Its cause they don't want a series that was a great and devolved to only good, now to get any worse than it is

 

[Wparker6804]

I constantly hear people say "I wish naruto would end", "I'm glad naruto is over", "They're just milking it for money!", and all sorts of other ways they phrase it. I get it, the manga didn't quite live up to it's expectations near the end which is very disappointing. But why would you want it to end? I use to want the manga to end when it was still early in the war arc (obito vs naruto) but now I don't want it to stop! Anything that happens after chapter 700 is just for true fans. If you don't like it don't watch it or read it.

There is no such thing as milking the series. It ended only 2 years ago and since it's still got such a large following it makes sense to continue it in smaller projects.

Dragon ball Z ended in 1996. Yet they have milked it through dragon ball z kai, multiple movies, dragonball GT, and now in modern times they have the courage to actually reboot it for dragon ball super. If that isn't MILKING then you guys have lost your bloody minds. Complain about dragonball being milked instead of complaining about naruto. At least naruto didn't wait a decade just to continue the story.

EDIT: Don't forget that most of you do nothing to financially support the series. So if it's crap kishi it's putting out then that's because you don't deserve the high quality stuff! Probably why the anime has crappy animation.

That's exactly what I want--after 700. But between now & then all we're getting is crappy fillers & THAT'S what I'm tired of & want to end.
Want to make a GOOD filler? Show the fight between the Juubi and Hagoromo/Hamura. Or Asura & Indra. OR BOTH!

I've got to disagree on that.....

Naruto's done that too & I like it. Back to "after 700". Please, do more of those. Although DB Super & GT seemed like disappointments I like what DBZ has done all in all. And even though it's a fan parody DBZ Abridged is hilarious & nostalgic. I hope equally talented fans do something like that for Naruto, all though that would probably be harder.

 

[Nagi]

Lol!! Indra went in! I have been saying that shit about Naruto for monthssssss!


This thread need to get hot ASAP!

 

[Illuminater]

Also Kishimoto's messages and themes are simply wrong, disgusting and inconsistent right off the bat. Also, people have a lot of reasons to make a mockery out of the Talk no Jutsu sessions, because Kishimoto confused forgiveness with justice. Forgiveness doesn't resolve all disputes, conflicts or grievances, forgiveness doesn't replace the need for justice. A murderer or rapist should be brought to justice regardless of whether the plaintiff or victims are willing to forgive the perpetrator. We have a justice system not only because people want retribution and punishment when they're wronged, but it's also because we need to set rules to deter crimes and uphold values we consider righteous as a society so that we can get along as a community and feel safe and respected as a member of society. Justice is essential, forgiveness is optional.

Kishimoto refused to give victims of the shinobi system justice and justified the top officials who abused their powers by portraying them as patriotic. Not only that, if the victims rebelled, he'd blame them for failing to conquer their hatred and find forgiveness. He tried to make it look like there's nothing wrong with slavery, ethnic cleansing or imprisoning of the Tailed Beasts and producing mass weapons at the expense of children's humanity, he wrote like the problem is the slaves didn't love their master, Sasuke didn't love the village that discriminated his clan and ordered an ethnic cleansing, the Tailed Beasts didn't befriend their hosts, the Jinchuriki didn't fill themselves with love, Pain is fueled by hatred and loneliness, etc.

Forgiveness is ****ing overrated. People often believe if you fail to forgive, the negativity would put strain on your mental health. It's not necessarily true, you can choose not to forgive a person and continue to think they're irredeemable, but consider them insignificant in your life, thus, not affected by them or their actions emotionally. Whether an action or a person is forgivable is a moral judgement, it's not necessarily tied to strong negative emotional attachment.

Naruto just pretends to have a linear plot.

Naruto inspires so many people to do better in their lives and to strive for larger things. It helps bullied people gain more confidene in themselves. And it teaches you about friendship and all that sort of good stuff.
Remember the manga was mean't for grade school kids. It's not going to have super mature elements and be super realistic. It's okay to have talk no jutsu because at the end of the day that's what makes Naruto unique.

With all that said I can guarantee that you're not here for the story, you're here for Sasuke. You sound like a hater, a true hater.

 

[DominiqueX]

All this talk about quality...this is a completely opinionated subject. I enjoyed EVERY single arc in the series. There were some boring chapters here and there, but even those were created out of the necessity to further the plot. You and I have no choice but to agree to disagree on this matter.

"Quality" is not really an opinion. There are certain standards which are approved by the community.
But yeah, it's your own opinion, your own free will, if you care about these standards or not. Of course you can enjoy the show and fade out the things you didn't like.
But please don't call other people "not-fans" or "haters" if they don't agree with your point of view. That would be great. You have your point of view and other people have others and there is no need to agree on everything.

Criticism and bashing aren't the same. Bashing comes from a purely disrespectful and spiteful attitude. Criticism is void of insults.

Yep, sorry if I implied something else.
I don't support bashing, but I do support criticism. All we need is a civilized conversation.
On the other hand, you were bashing people who have a different mindset. Maybe you think about that ^-^

Yes, I'm still a true fan, having had pirated his work. To make up for it, I've been buying volumes online whenever I can afford to. I will own them all one day. All the light novels, as well (not sure if Kishi would benefit from that because he's not the author of them).
And I was ignorant of how reading manga for free online even worked. Proof ->

You must be registered for see links

Good then.
You don't have to justify yourself towards me. I read the chapters for free as well in the past. Just wanted to point that out of your earlier comment because of the "true fan" thing.

Have a good day/night.

 

[Illuminater]

And if you dislike the manga so much just stop reading it... It's not like Kishimoto has a gun to your head. If you find such core elements of the story such as forgiveness, the will of fire, and Naruto's qualities (forgiving people, never giving up, etc.) so deleterious to the story then you should stop following the series.

 

[SumnNarutoRelated]

And if you dislike the manga so much just stop reading it... It's not like Kishimoto has a gun to your head. If you find such core elements of the story such as forgiveness, the will of fire, and Naruto's qualities (forgiving people, never giving up, etc.) so deleterious to the story then you should stop following the series.

do u understand that Naruto used to be AMAZING!!

and that people have seen it spiral downward continuously from that point and want the manga to end because they're afraid the story they once loved can get much much worse?

i personally lost interest right after VOTE 2 and chapter 700 just absolutely ruined it for me

 

[KingHashirama]

I love Naruto.

I simply hate specific parts of the writing, mainly the ending.

However, I don't consider "Boruto" part of Naruto, so i can hate it without hating Naruto.


PS: they are milking the series. Its not a practice done by just Naruto folks, but Star wars/DBZ/Assassin's creed and so on. Milking a series doesn't mean you can't create new stuff for it.. just means the new stuff is bad, and is only being made so they could make money off of the name of the series.

 

[lndra]

Naruto inspires so many people to do better in their lives and to strive for larger things. It helps bullied people gain more confidene in themselves. And it teaches you about friendship and all that sort of good stuff.
Remember the manga was mean't for grade school kids. It's not going to have super mature elements and be super realistic. It's okay to have talk no jutsu because at the end of the day that's what makes Naruto unique.

With all that said I can guarantee that you're not here for the story, you're here for Sasuke. You sound like a hater, a true hater.

What does Naruto inspiring people have to do with how shitty the story is?

 

[Dantee]

Nekka said DBZ only sold 10million copies more than Naruto as if that's a small as number.

 

[Guardian of the Rain]

"Quality" is not really an opinion. There are certain standards which are approved by the community.
But yeah, it's your own opinion, your own free will, if you care about these standards or not. Of course you can enjoy the show and fade out the things you didn't like.
But please don't call other people "not-fans" or "haters" if they don't agree with your point of view. That would be great. You have your point of view and other people have others and there is no need to agree on everything.


Yep, sorry if I implied something else.
I don't support bashing, but I do support criticism. All we need is a civilized conversation.
On the other hand, you were bashing people who have a different mindset. Maybe you think about that ^-^


Good then.
You don't have to justify yourself towards me. I read the chapters for free as well in the past. Just wanted to point that out of your earlier comment because of the "true fan" thing.

Have a good day/night.

Dammit. Last reply. Gotta justify myself lol
I know I come off as a hypocrite by accusing others of bashing and name-calling. I called a certain group of people "ungrateful bastards" in my first post, and I won't withdraw that comment. You're reasonable, so that word isn't directed towards you, too.
It's just that Kishi isn't deserving of such insults, but Naruto-haters are. "Haters" is the best term I can think of. Sorry.

But yeah, anyway. You have yourself a lovely day/night, as well.

And if you dislike the manga so much just stop reading it... It's not like Kishimoto has a gun to your head. If you find such core elements of the story such as forgiveness, the will of fire, and Naruto's qualities (forgiving people, never giving up, etc.) so deleterious to the story then you should stop following the series.

I second this.
The people who are disappointed in the manga are going to be the most vocal about it, and also the ones who will campaign endlessly to try to get people to be just as disappointed as much as they are. While those who enjoyed the story will go on with lives and ready themselves for whatever comes next. Although a sad state of affairs, it's human nature to try to drag everyone down in the dumps with them. The internet just makes it easier for them to do so. Don't feed the trolls.

 

[Dantee]

Nekkka assumes ppl shitting on series are strictly sasukefans. Jesus getNarutos **** out your mouth I dont even express my dislike for this shitty series like some ppl on here but DBz > Naruto imo and if you cant deal once again stop sucking Kishis ****.

 

[lndra]

Nekkka assumes ppl shitting on series are strictly sasukefans. Jesus getNarutos **** out your mouth I dont even express my dislike for this shitty series like some ppl on here but DBz > Naruto imo and if you cant deal once again stop sucking Kishis ****.

You know they have Naruto's balls in their mouth when they mistake me for a 'sasuke wanker'

 

[Dantee]

Honestly? Naruto was never anything spectacular in terms of plot and characters. Even back in Part 1 although, not to the same extent as Part 2. Naruto has always been a generic mainstream shonen manga. It's decent in Part 1, but nothing groundbreaking, although it slowly went downhill after the Chunin Exams arc. There's nothing in Naruto that isn't better executed in other manga series. Part 1 was only good because his first editor, Kosuke Yahagi, basically dictated the plot and thematics.

As to why Naruto fails plot-wisely, it's a pretty long-winded post, but I'll try my best to formulate myself:

Naruto lacks a grand struggle that give characters a purpose: In Attack on Titan, there's an imminent threat to humanity. In One Piece, there's a corrupt government to overthrow, people to be liberated. These grand struggles affect everyone, it makes it easier to include an ensemble cast into the overall plot, and the eventual triumph would be a meaningful closure for everyone, not just the protagonist alone.

Now, look at Naruto, where're the struggles? Seeking recognition is Naruto's personal goal. Apprehending Sasuke is Naruto's personal pursuit, it's none of anyone else's concern. Only when Konoha was assaulted, then the Konoha characters have a common purpose. That's why Kishimoto had troubles writing the Konoha 11 characters into the story, there's no persistent threat and evil that can catch all the characters' attention in the plot. Of course, not every series needs to be an epic about changing the world like Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Dragon Ball and Hunter x Hunter doesn't have a linear plot, they're composed of sagas. But the thing is, Naruto pretends to be an epic about war and peace, and it tries to pass off its asspull-esque mastermind food chain as a "linear plot". In reality, it's just a series composed of disjointed story arcs involving small groups of villains, short-term threats, and shallow personal pursuits.

Naruto's climax is disconnected with the build-up: For the majority of the series, the villains' backstories shed lights on the problems in the shinobi system, which made Naruto vow on his life to bring peace to the ninja world. These all felt like a build-up to a climax where the protagonist and other ninjas would confront a villain that is the manifestation of what's with the shinobi system and the protagonist would offer an answer, and the ninjas would come to realization that they need to change. But **** no, we got Kaguya who got nothing to do with the system whose objectives didn't make an iota sense.

The premise of the story is shallow and limiting in nature: The protagonist's goal is to get people to acknowledge him and become Hokage. To make this occur, Kishimoto did two things which would make up most of the plot in Naruto, and they're both restricting to plot development, character development and world building. First of all, putting Konoha in perils, so that Naruto could play the savior to the damsel in distress that was Konoha. Two of the biggest arcs are about Konoha being under attack, the Chunin Exams and Pain arc. There's another attack that didn't materialize: Sasuke.

Honestly? These save Konoha arcs got old pretty quick, and once Naruto got acknowledged in Pain arc, there's no room to expand the story. Also, since Naruto only wanted the citizens of Konoha to acknowledge him and become Hokage, there's little to no point in creating arcs that take the protagonist outside Konoha or give him a challenge that wouldn't earn him recognition. This very much limited possibilities in plot ideas.

If you look at One Piece and Hunter x Hunter, both of their retrospective protagonist's goals are searching for something or someone. This setup allows much more options for plot concepts, take One Piece for example, every island in midst of a journey is a different world, with different issues, with a whole new cast of characters that would interact with the Straw Hat Pirates. In Naruto's case, we just kept seeing Konoha characters keeping Konoha at bay, and exclaim some corny lines about protecting their homeland.

Second, making Sasuke leave Konoha, so that Naruto could chase him for acknowledgement. This is what Naruto did for the majority of the series, but it’s a personal pursuit that only matters to Naruto himself, not the ninja world on a grand scale.

You know they have Naruto's balls in their mouth when they mistake me for a 'sasuke wanker'

Are you reading this OP? We can hear you deep throating naruto from even here. Now go to sleep.

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

This is an interesting thread with a lot of well constructed arguments, and it's definitely a subject I think about often. Obviously, the answer to this question is highly subjective, and I don't believe there is a single right answer. I like reading everyone's opinion on the matter, though, and I hope this discussion goes on.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

Not trying to start any keyboard warrior posts here but Naruto was always mediocre or average. Nothing about it was revolutionary or and never been done before(writing wise) in order to make it above being an average run of the mill manga. Note though, that average mediocre doesn't mean bad. Of course when it comes to how you personally feel, your opinion,there is no limit to what you can say about it.

coming from a guy with a dragon ball z pic I find this comment beyond hilarious

 

[Shruikan]

Because the series doesn't have the same vibe or quality to it like back in the pain Arc

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

Nekkka assumes ppl shitting on series are strictly sasukefans. Jesus getNarutos **** out your mouth I dont even express my dislike for this shitty series like some ppl on here but DBz > Naruto imo and if you cant deal once again stop sucking Kishis ****.

you call naruto a shitty series?...comparing naruto to dragon ball is like comparing m.jordan to monta ellis...

dragon ball is one of the most trash plot induced series I have ever read....and I've read the GMG arc of fairy tail so I know what I'm typing about