Why do supposed "fans" hate Naruto?

Illuminater

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Dont compare DBz to Naruto.End of story
Nice porn profile pictures, but they won't get you any extra points wise guy.

I can compare naruto to dragon ball z all day any day. Masashi kishimoto was inspired to create naruto because of dragon ball z. Both protagonist wear orange, love food, are idiots, have rivals, and many more similarities within the the stories. You might not think Naruto is a classic series but it actually is.

Stop being such a crusty, rusty, veteran that hates the series just because your fav. got negged by kishi.


Dragonball is above naruto in terms of sales but not by much. Dragonball has only sold 10 million more copies than naruto has. And naruto is in the top 5 mangas.
 

Illuminater

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They're false fans as the quotation marks in the title implies. Good move.

These kind of people are nothing more than ungrateful bastards who have no honor in their bones. How someone could bash the creator of a series that has brought him so much joy is beyond me.
I could never pay Kishi back for all the amazing Wednesday and Thursday mornings he gave me. And having been able to read his manga for free was the best part about it.
To show my support, I've been purchasing volumes from Amazon. Hopefully, one day I will own them all.

I just don't consider these people to be fellow true fans, and will never embrace them as such. It's like when you find out someone you think low of likes your current favorite song. Like "Ewww. That guy likes the same song that I do?" lol
Exactly. I swear they live just so they can see their favorite character "one up" other characters.

Without kishi I wouldn't have been jumping up and down on my bed when the sanin fought...I wouldn't be playing naruto with my friends during recess...I wouldn't have created a "naruto holiday" for myself... Naruto means a lot to a lot of people.
It's sad that these ungrateful fake fans get to enjoy it for free.
 

Guardian of the Rain

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Exactly. I swear they live just so they can see their favorite character "one up" other characters.

Without kishi I wouldn't have been jumping up and down on my bed when the sanin fought...I wouldn't be playing naruto with my friends during recess...I wouldn't have created a "naruto holiday" for myself... Naruto means a lot to a lot of people.
It's sad that these ungrateful fake fans get to enjoy it for free.
Forever cherish those memories, my friend haha they're awesome
And yeah, I'm one of those people Naruto means A LOT to. It's the greatest story ever told imo
You're awesome, man. Your gratitude towards Kishi just restored some of my faith in humanity.
 

DominiqueX

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They're false fans as the quotation marks in the title implies. Good move.

These kind of people are nothing more than ungrateful bastards who have no honor in their bones. How someone could bash the creator of a series that has brought him so much joy is beyond me.
I could never pay Kishi back for all the amazing Wednesday and Thursday mornings he gave me. And having been able to read his manga for free was the best part about it.
To show my support, I've been purchasing volumes from Amazon. Hopefully, one day I will own them all.

I just don't consider these people to be fellow true fans, and will never embrace them as such. It's like when you find out someone you think low of likes your current favorite song. Like "Ewww. That guy likes the same song that I do?" lol
Okay, so a "true fan" should mindlessly worship the creator and everything he (or she) did? So Kishimoto became a religion apparently?
Come on, that is ridiculous and you know that.
 

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As soon as it doesn't go their way people pull a 180, hey I hated Nardo like many people did here but don't make it your goal to hate on it and complain 24/7, I didn't, I just didn't bother with it anymore.

That's how I see it anyways
 
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Guardian of the Rain

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Okay, so a "true fan" should mindlessly worship the creator and everything he (or she) did? So Kishimoto became a religion apparently?
Come on, that is ridiculous and you know that.
"Mindlessly"? lmao!
As I already stated, so much joy and entertainment I've had in my life is thanks to Kishi. And I don't worship him; I simply give him credit where it's due.
- As a true fan, I highly appreciate the 15+ years of QUALITY work Kishi dedicated to the world.
- As a true fan, I choose not to nitpick every detail of the story in attempt to unveil as many flaws as possible, though I know they're there.
- As a true fan, I see the good, the necessity, and the purpose of every chapter, page, and even panel. Kishi's an intelligent man, so there's a good reason for every "flaw" you nay-sayers point out.
- As a true fan, I am well aware that I don't even have the right to bash Kishi for ANYTHING, having not paid to read his incredible work. If you'd made financial contributions, then you'd have the right to bash the man (though out of respect, dignity, gratitude for the good, and honor, you still shouldn't.)
- As a true fan, I am optimistic about the future of all things Naruto, rather than presuming it's all going to be trash from the result of "milking".
- As a true fan, I do not complain about fillers because I understand that fewer fillers = sooner the anime comes to an end. With the manga done, the anime--among other platforms--help keep the series alive.
- Etc
 
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Bling Kai

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Forever cherish those memories, my friend haha they're awesome
And yeah, I'm one of those people Naruto means A LOT to. It's the greatest story ever told imo
You're awesome, man. Your gratitude towards Kishi just restored some of my faith in humanity.
Exactly. I swear they live just so they can see their favorite character "one up" other characters.

Without kishi I wouldn't have been jumping up and down on my bed when the sanin fought...I wouldn't be playing naruto with my friends during recess...I wouldn't have created a "naruto holiday" for myself... Naruto means a lot to a lot of people.
It's sad that these ungrateful fake fans get to enjoy it for free.
You guys saying people aren't true fans because they dont do what you do or feel the way you feel about the Naruto series are perfect examples of famboys, and completely ignorant people in general.
 

Guardian of the Rain

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You guys saying people aren't true fans because they dont do what you do or feel the way you feel about the Naruto series are perfect examples of famboys, and completely ignorant people in general.
lol not going to have a debate with you with that avatar.
From my experience, DBZ has the most stubborn, stupidly nostalgic, and delusional fans. Unsure if you're one of them or not, but I'm not willing to risk it.
Let's just agree to disagree lol

P.S. - See yourself forever off of this NARUTO forum site if your opinion of the story and its creator is so poor.
 
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DominiqueX

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As I already stated, so much joy and entertainment I've had in my life is thanks to Kishi. And I don't worship him; I simply give him credit where it's due.
Giving him credit is good, but you also have to criticise the bad parts. Otherwise it is indeed "worshipping".

- As a true fan, I highly appreciate the 15+ years of QUALITY work Kishi dedicated to the world.
15 years of quality? You wish. :p
You act as if he did everything by himself. He surely did a lot of great stuff, but the manga went rapidly downhill after the Pain-Arc.. which seems to be the same time one of his most important editors left, like I heard. Strange, isn't it?

And the last few years he spent with the war-arc cannot be called "quality". As well as the next-generation stuff. The children of the Naruto-characters are just lame fusions or complete clones of their parents, that's not creative.

- As a true fan, I choose not to nitpick every detail of the story in attempt to unveil as many flaws as possible, though I know they're there.
Good, you know that they're there. That is at least something.

- As a true fan, I am well aware that I don't even have the right to bash Kishi, having not paid to read his incredible work.
You call yourself a true fan but pirated Kishimoto's work? That's interesting.
But you do have a point, there are a lot of people who "bash" Kishimoto. He did good in the past, but criticism is absolutely needed. And there are enough people who paid lots of money over years, so of course some of them are frustrated and have all the right to be. Kishimoto did a lot of authorical mistakes that reduced the overall-quality of his work.

- As a true fan, I am optimistic about the future of all things Naruto, rather than presuming it's all going to be trash from the result of "milking".
Okay, I guess you haven't seen many anime/manga then. Your naivete and optimism is impressive.
The Naruto-anime itself is the best example for how the series is "milked".

I agree with the statement of Bling Kai here, especially with the underlined part:
Naruto has been going on since 1999 that's a long ass time. The series didn't need to be that ****ing long. A good story is one that knows when to end, it makes its point then ****ing ends.
You know, the longer the series gets, the more and more inconsistencies and repetitions will occur, which reduces the authorical quality of the series too.

- As a true fan, I do not complain about fillers because I understand that fewer fillers = sooner the anime comes to an end. With the manga done, the anime--among other platforms--help keep the series alive.
So you basically want the show to keep going just for the sake of not-ending it?
That's like keeping a suffering coma-patient alive just for the sake of living, no matter what "quality" it has. And I doubt that this is a healthy behavior.
 
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Nagi

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The manga became ass the moment that Kishi started forcing characters to act a certain way for the sake of Naruto's character development.
 

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I came here ready to talk, but no, no. No point in me adding anything. Riker and Konan just said it all.

I'll just be over here taking a nap. Goodnight everyone.

You must be registered for see images
 

lndra

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Honestly? Naruto was never anything spectacular in terms of plot and characters. Even back in Part 1 although, not to the same extent as Part 2. Naruto has always been a generic mainstream shonen manga. It's decent in Part 1, but nothing groundbreaking, although it slowly went downhill after the Chunin Exams arc. There's nothing in Naruto that isn't better executed in other manga series. Part 1 was only good because his first editor, Kosuke Yahagi, basically dictated the plot and thematics.

As to why Naruto fails plot-wisely, it's a pretty long-winded post, but I'll try my best to formulate myself:

Naruto lacks a grand struggle that give characters a purpose: In Attack on Titan, there's an imminent threat to humanity. In One Piece, there's a corrupt government to overthrow, people to be liberated. These grand struggles affect everyone, it makes it easier to include an ensemble cast into the overall plot, and the eventual triumph would be a meaningful closure for everyone, not just the protagonist alone.

Now, look at Naruto, where're the struggles? Seeking recognition is Naruto's personal goal. Apprehending Sasuke is Naruto's personal pursuit, it's none of anyone else's concern. Only when Konoha was assaulted, then the Konoha characters have a common purpose. That's why Kishimoto had troubles writing the Konoha 11 characters into the story, there's no persistent threat and evil that can catch all the characters' attention in the plot. Of course, not every series needs to be an epic about changing the world like Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Dragon Ball and Hunter x Hunter doesn't have a linear plot, they're composed of sagas. But the thing is, Naruto pretends to be an epic about war and peace, and it tries to pass off its asspull-esque mastermind food chain as a "linear plot". In reality, it's just a series composed of disjointed story arcs involving small groups of villains, short-term threats, and shallow personal pursuits.

Naruto's climax is disconnected with the build-up: For the majority of the series, the villains' backstories shed lights on the problems in the shinobi system, which made Naruto vow on his life to bring peace to the ninja world. These all felt like a build-up to a climax where the protagonist and other ninjas would confront a villain that is the manifestation of what's with the shinobi system and the protagonist would offer an answer, and the ninjas would come to realization that they need to change. But **** no, we got Kaguya who got nothing to do with the system whose objectives didn't make an iota sense.

The premise of the story is shallow and limiting in nature: The protagonist's goal is to get people to acknowledge him and become Hokage. To make this occur, Kishimoto did two things which would make up most of the plot in Naruto, and they're both restricting to plot development, character development and world building. First of all, putting Konoha in perils, so that Naruto could play the savior to the damsel in distress that was Konoha. Two of the biggest arcs are about Konoha being under attack, the Chunin Exams and Pain arc. There's another attack that didn't materialize: Sasuke.

Honestly? These save Konoha arcs got old pretty quick, and once Naruto got acknowledged in Pain arc, there's no room to expand the story. Also, since Naruto only wanted the citizens of Konoha to acknowledge him and become Hokage, there's little to no point in creating arcs that take the protagonist outside Konoha or give him a challenge that wouldn't earn him recognition. This very much limited possibilities in plot ideas.

If you look at One Piece and Hunter x Hunter, both of their retrospective protagonist's goals are searching for something or someone. This setup allows much more options for plot concepts, take One Piece for example, every island in midst of a journey is a different world, with different issues, with a whole new cast of characters that would interact with the Straw Hat Pirates. In Naruto's case, we just kept seeing Konoha characters keeping Konoha at bay, and exclaim some corny lines about protecting their homeland.

Second, making Sasuke leave Konoha, so that Naruto could chase him for acknowledgement. This is what Naruto did for the majority of the series, but it’s a personal pursuit that only matters to Naruto himself, not the ninja world on a grand scale.
 
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Bling Kai

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lol not going to have a debate with you with that avatar.
From my experience, DBZ has the most stubborn, stupidly nostalgic, and delusional fans. Unsure if you're one of them or not, but I'm not willing to risk it.
Let's just agree to disagree lol

P.S. - See yourself forever off of this NARUTO forum site if your opinion of the story and its creator is so poor.
Bringing up dbz when the it had nothing to do with the disscusion I have never seem that before and its so original. All this does is show your emotional it doesn't help your argument.

And assuming that wouldn't be good as I have pointed put the FACT that Naruto is mediocre, averagely written as it does nothing that hasn't been done before or done better by other writers.

Also I ain't going anywhere, just because people dont think Naruto is the greatest ****ing thing ever created by a human being and cant be matched ever doesn't mean they should leave a Naruto forum or aren't true fans.

You have proven yourself to be delusional and completely emotionally driven when it comes to the topic of Naruto that is the true reason you shouldn't debate with me as I'd wipe the floor with you. You simply assumed some bs about me because a avatar I have and used the word true fan to describe people that don't feel the way you do about Naruto. Which is nothing but a fact less based claim as fans come in many diffent varieties. They don't have to feel the same way other fans do to be a fan. It would seem you wouldn't present any real points in a debate just use your emotions and delusions. So no don't debate with me I've already won because I used facts to back up what I said and not delusions and emotions that hold no ground in debates .
 
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lndra

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Also Kishimoto's messages and themes are simply wrong, disgusting and inconsistent right off the bat. Also, people have a lot of reasons to make a mockery out of the Talk no Jutsu sessions, because Kishimoto confused forgiveness with justice. Forgiveness doesn't resolve all disputes, conflicts or grievances, forgiveness doesn't replace the need for justice. A murderer or rapist should be brought to justice regardless of whether the plaintiff or victims are willing to forgive the perpetrator. We have a justice system not only because people want retribution and punishment when they're wronged, but it's also because we need to set rules to deter crimes and uphold values we consider righteous as a society so that we can get along as a community and feel safe and respected as a member of society. Justice is essential, forgiveness is optional.

Kishimoto refused to give victims of the shinobi system justice and justified the top officials who abused their powers by portraying them as patriotic. Not only that, if the victims rebelled, he'd blame them for failing to conquer their hatred and find forgiveness. He tried to make it look like there's nothing wrong with slavery, ethnic cleansing or imprisoning of the Tailed Beasts and producing mass weapons at the expense of children's humanity, he wrote like the problem is the slaves didn't love their master, Sasuke didn't love the village that discriminated his clan and ordered an ethnic cleansing, the Tailed Beasts didn't befriend their hosts, the Jinchuriki didn't fill themselves with love, Pain is fueled by hatred and loneliness, etc.

Forgiveness is ****ing overrated. People often believe if you fail to forgive, the negativity would put strain on your mental health. It's not necessarily true, you can choose not to forgive a person and continue to think they're irredeemable, but consider them insignificant in your life, thus, not affected by them or their actions emotionally. Whether an action or a person is forgivable is a moral judgement, it's not necessarily tied to strong negative emotional attachment.

Naruto just pretends to have a linear plot.
 
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Bling Kai

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Honestly? Naruto was never anything spectacular in terms of plot and characters. Even back in Part 1 although, not to the same extent as Part 2. Naruto has always been a generic mainstream shonen manga. It's decent in Part 1, but nothing groundbreaking, although it slowly went downhill after the Chunin Exams arc. There's nothing in Naruto that isn't better executed in other manga series. Part 1 was only good because his first editor, Kosuke Yahagi, basically dictated the plot and thematics.

As to why Naruto fails plot-wisely, it's a pretty long-winded post, but I'll try my best to formulate myself:

Naruto lacks a grand struggle that give characters a purpose: In Attack on Titan, there's an imminent threat to humanity. In One Piece, there's a corrupt government to overthrow, people to be liberated. These grand struggles affect everyone, it makes it easier to include an ensemble cast into the overall plot, and the eventual triumph would be a meaningful closure for everyone, not just the protagonist alone.

Now, look at Naruto, where're the struggles? Seeking recognition is Naruto's personal goal. Apprehending Sasuke is Naruto's personal pursuit, it's none of anyone else's concern. Only when Konoha was assaulted, then the Konoha characters have a common purpose. That's why Kishimoto had troubles writing the Konoha 11 characters into the story, there's no persistent threat and evil that can catch all the characters' attention in the plot. Of course, not every series needs to be an epic about changing the world like Legend of the Galactic Heroes. Dragon Ball and Hunter x Hunter doesn't have a linear plot, they're composed of sagas. But the thing is, Naruto pretends to be an epic about war and peace, and it tries to pass off its asspull-esque mastermind food chain as a "linear plot". In reality, it's just a series composed of disjointed story arcs involving small groups of villains, short-term threats, and shallow personal pursuits.

Naruto's climax is disconnected with the build-up: For the majority of the series, the villains' backstories shed lights on the problems in the shinobi system, which made Naruto vow on his life to bring peace to the ninja world. These all felt like a build-up to a climax where the protagonist and other ninjas would confront a villain that is the manifestation of what's with the shinobi system and the protagonist would offer an answer, and the ninjas would come to realization that they need to change. But **** no, we got Kaguya who got nothing to do with the system whose objectives didn't make an iota sense.

The premise of the story is shallow and limiting in nature: The protagonist's goal is to get people to acknowledge him and become Hokage. To make this occur, Kishimoto did two things which would make up most of the plot in Naruto, and they're both restricting to plot development, character development and world building. First of all, putting Konoha in perils, so that Naruto could play the savior to the damsel in distress that was Konoha. Two of the biggest arcs are about Konoha being under attack, the Chunin Exams and Pain arc. There's another attack that didn't materialize: Sasuke.

Honestly? These save Konoha arcs got old pretty quick, and once Naruto got acknowledged in Pain arc, there's no room to expand the story. Also, since Naruto only wanted the citizens of Konoha to acknowledge him and become Hokage, there's little to no point in creating arcs that take the protagonist outside Konoha or give him a challenge that wouldn't earn him recognition. This very much limited possibilities in plot ideas.

If you look at One Piece and Hunter x Hunter, both of their retrospective protagonist's goals are searching for something or someone. This setup allows much more options for plot concepts, take One Piece for example, every island in midst of a journey is a different world, with different issues, with a whole new cast of characters that would interact with the Straw Hat Pirates. In Naruto's case, we just kept seeing Konoha characters keeping Konoha at bay, and exclaim some corny lines about protecting their homeland.

Second, making Sasuke leave Konoha, so that Naruto could chase him for acknowledgement. This is what Naruto did for the majority of the series, but it’s a personal pursuit that only matters to Naruto himself, not the ninja world on a grand scale.
Finally someone that gets this. its so ****ing refreshing to FINALLY see someone that knows what they are talking about in terms of writing on those site. I thought i was ****ing alone. But oops you aren't a true fan according to illuminator smfh.
 
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