Nonetheless I still believe PS is a MS tech. I gave this example to Logic about how did Madara survive against Hashi from their countless battles if Hashi can easily break a regular Susanoo?
And yes it all just speculating, but personally I see there are more indications of it being an MS tech than EMS. Though I still respect your opinion, don't get me wrong! ^_^
It's sad...you actually think that Madara would stand a chance against Hashirama's mokuton with Complete susanoo? Further more, Both Madara and tsunade gave the implication that Madara had it during his fight at VoTE. Madara claimed to use it before the 4th shinobi war also.
Hmm seems doubtful, because as I said with the rinnegan he can suck up most of Naruto's attacks which is unfair. Naruto never truly beat a full rinnegan user and had trouble due to the fact I mentioned(6 paths were all separate not a single individual)
I don't think his taijutsu is strong enough to break a susanoo, let alone a PS.(if sasuke gets it)
About Itachi alluding the rinnegan. He did say "these are the final secrets of the eyes" without actually mentioning the rinnegan itself. I don't see why he would say "completely new tech", rather than be specific about obtaining the rinnegan?
So far the MS gives different techs to different individuals which is why he said a "completely new tech" and not just "Perfect Susanoo" or "Rinnegan", as if he didn't know what came next....
Common sense tells me that since Susano is a MS tech, that PS is an EMS tech. Rinnegan has a ton of new abilities, why would it need PS too? If we aren't including PS in the abilities of EMS, what is so great about EMS? All it would do otherwise is prevent their light from leaving. That isn't much of an upgrade. Susano is associated with the sharingan, so I'd like the PS to also be associated with sharingan, not rinnegan. If it is revealed later that PS is a rinnegan tech, it would disappointing in my opinion.
It's sad...you actually think that Madara would stand a chance against Hashirama's mokuton with Complete susanoo? Further more, Both Madara and tsunade gave the implication that Madara had it during his fight at VoTE. Madara claimed to use it before the 4th shinobi war also.
Common sense tells me that since Susano is a MS tech, that PS is an EMS tech. Rinnegan has a ton of new abilities, why would it need PS too? If we aren't including PS in the abilities of EMS, what is so great about EMS? All it would do otherwise is prevent their light from leaving. That isn't much of an upgrade. Susano is associated with the sharingan, so I'd like the PS to also be associated with sharingan, not rinnegan. If it is revealed later that PS is a rinnegan tech, it would disappointing in my opinion.
Itachi says it "gives birth to a completely new tech" meaning it's a tech we haven't seen yet. Do you think Madara exercised all his abilities on the kages when he wasn't even fighting seriously?
Madara also didn't have time to show "the full power of the Uchiha" because Edo Tensei was released at that point and we didn't see the battle in which he killed all the kages....meaning there is still more to see from the EMS.
well lightbringer what you're saying doesn't really matter. Cause manga facts > you.
Until the manga shows a MS user having PS then it is an EMS technique. Itachi and sasuke both have MS and they didn't achieve PS, and now you're gonna assume PS is a MS technique? No where in the manga does it suggests that madara achieved PS with only an MS. So we can safely assume that PS is an EMS technique.
well lightbringer what you're saying doesn't really matter. Cause manga facts > you.
Until the manga shows a MS user having PS then it is an EMS technique. Itachi and sasuke both have MS and they didn't achieve PS, and now you're gonna assume PS is a MS technique? No where in the manga does it suggests that madara achieved PS with only an MS. So we can safely assume that PS is an EMS technique.
I never said it was a fact, and PS=EMS isn't a fact either.
You didn't read the thread carefully either.
the susanoo evolves on a whim, from rib cage form to skeletal to full, etc.
Madara stabilized the completed form's chakra, which made it into the PS in the first place....it didn't evolve like the other forms, he just made is more focused
stabilizing chakra isn't an ability, it's a skill; Just like naruto had problems stabilizing the chakra of his rasengan at first, where he had help from clones but then was able to get better with it.
Sasuke was able to manipulate amaterasu's flames when Itachi couldn't with MS. If you can manipulate the flames, then why can't you manipulate(stabilize) susanoo
How did Madara survive against the countless battles against Hashi with only his MS if he didn't have the PS also? Hashi can easily break through a regular susanoo....
I never said it was a fact, and PS=EMS isn't a fact either.
You didn't read the thread carefully either.
the susanoo evolves on a whim, from rib cage form to skeletal to full, etc.
Madara stabilized the completed form's chakra, which made it into the PS in the first place....it didn't evolve like the other forms, he just made is more focused
stabilizing chakra isn't an ability, it's a skill; Just like naruto had problems stabilizing the chakra of his rasengan at first, where he had help from clones but then was able to get better with it.
Sasuke was able to manipulate amaterasu's flames when Itachi couldn't with MS. If you can manipulate the flames, then why can't you manipulate(stabilize) susanoo
How did Madara survive against the countless battles against Hashi with only his MS if he didn't have the PS also? Hashi can easily break through a regular susanoo....
well PS as an EMS technique is not fact yet, but theres more evidence that PS is an EMS technique whereas there is zero evidence that PS is an MS technique. So we can assume that PS is an EMS technique.
And you have zero proof that hashi techniques can break through Madara's regular Susanoo. Not only that you don't know if Madara used PS against hashi before the last fight with him. Madara said whoever saw PS has not lived to tell about it. So how can hashi have seen madara PS and not tell about it when he fought Madara countless times
well PS as an EMS technique is not fact yet, but theres more evidence that PS is an EMS technique whereas there is zero evidence that PS is an MS technique. So we can assume that PS is an EMS technique.
And you have zero proof that hashi techniques can break through Madara's regular Susanoo. Not only that you don't know if Madara used PS against hashi before the last fight with him. Madara said whoever saw PS has not lived to tell about it. So how can hashi who fought Madara countless times, have seen his PS and not tell about it?
actually what I just said to you is evidence. Now you're going to make find the pages to prove this even more to you.
First off Tsunade says "to think my grandfather fought something like this"
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Next Onoki asks why Madara held that back in their battle
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Tsunade is able to break Madara's susanoo, Madara calls her weak compared to him and that all his techs were on a different scale.
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Hashirama can break susanoo, if he couldn't how would he have defeated Madara with PS in the first place? But breaking PS is most likely a lot more tough than breaking a regular susanoo that tsunade was able to break with a punch.
They both fought countless times in wars with Senju and Uchiha. Why would they not go all out if they were in war and if they could prevent more bloodshed of their clans?
he also had about a year of training. I believe that was the gap between the war and kage arc. Remember how naruto couldn't control his chakra mode at first but then got used to it?
He used to only be able to do 5min with bijuu mode and now he can do I believe it was 8min.
You have no proof there was a time skip, no such thing was hinted at. Naruto just got better at using BM, remember they just used it for the first time and it was 5mins, 2nd time was 8mins and this is just when kurama and Naruto finally started to become friends. I doubt it takes much once youre friendly with your beast.
actually what I just said to you is evidence. Now you're going to make find the pages to prove this even more to you.
First off Tsunade says "to think my grandfather fought something like this"
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Next Onoki asks why Madara held that back in their battle
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Tsunade is able to break Madara's susanoo, Madara calls her weak compared to him and that all his techs were on a different scale.
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Hashirama can break susanoo, if he couldn't how would he have defeated Madara with PS in the first place? But breaking PS is most likely a lot more tough than breaking a regular susanoo that tsunade was able to break with a punch.
They both fought countless times in wars with Senju and Uchiha. Why would they not go all out if they were in war and if they could prevent more bloodshed of their clans?
The part about tsunade being weak is false because madara made those statements before she used her forbidden technique, and even after that madara acknowledges her strength. Now as far as madara not using it against oonoki, maybe he didnt need to? maybe he couldnt maintain it because he only had MS? both of those sound logical to me
actually what I just said to you is evidence. Now you're going to make find the pages to prove this even more to you.
First off Tsunade says "to think my grandfather fought something like this"
You must be registered for see images
Next Onoki asks why Madara held that back in their battle
You must be registered for see images
Tsunade is able to break Madara's susanoo, Madara calls her weak compared to him and that all his techs were on a different scale.
You must be registered for see images
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Hashirama can break susanoo, if he couldn't how would he have defeated Madara with PS in the first place? But breaking PS is most likely a lot more tough than breaking a regular susanoo that tsunade was able to break with a punch.
They both fought countless times in wars with Senju and Uchiha. Why would they not go all out if they were in war and if they could prevent more bloodshed of their clans?
well it doesn't matter if hashi can break madara's susanoo. You said how could he survive against hashi countless times without PS? For one no where in the manga does it state that madara's only powerful technique is susanoo. I'm sure madara had plenty of other techniques that enabled him to fight on par with hashi countless times without the need of PS
I don't think the PS is an EMS tech and here's why.
Susanoo carries many forms and this could just be the final form that only Madara has mastered so far.
I
Susanoo already has forms; rib cage, skeletal, full, completed, and perfect
With perfect Susanoo, Madara just stabilized the chakra of the completed Susanoo form.....
Both Sasuke and Itachi have the completed Susanoo already with their MS.
Madara's
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Sasuke's...look at how the arms resemble Madara's full form and the cloak.
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Itachi has the same unstable fiery chakra and cloak form
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The Susanoo tech awakens with the MS, not EMS; and having the Susanoo is a rarity in itself. So imagine how rare a PS would be then? I don't think it's an EMS tech since Itachi mentioned that the EMS "gives birth to a completely new tech" and the PS is just an improved version of susanoo.
And if Susanoo is indeed rare, then PS is like the rarest pokemon out there. Getting both would then be like hitting a jackpot.
I somewhat compare the Perfect Susanoo to Naruto's rasengan progression where he had to struggle to maintain control of his chakra and also use clones to help stabilize it for a rasengan.
It's like saying Naruto's chakra mode is MS and bijuu mode is EMS.....but it's not, it's just the mastery over the bijuu, same thing with Susanoo.
One last note. Madara fought Hashiramam countless times with just the MS and Hashirama can easily break through a regular susanoo. If he didn't have PS, how would he have survived each time?
good thread but it is a ems tech cuz you dont have that much time to master susannoo with just ms cuz you go blind but with ems the eye doesnt loose light so you can further increase its power. Sasukes susanoo will change again.
it was said in the manga that hashi and madara fought for days in their last battle, so im pretty sure madara and hashi has alot of techniques under their sleeves
