[Discussion] Why did God create Hell?

[Deadlift]

Read this if you have the time

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Is this the position of the author of the article, or the real teaching of Islamic orthodoxy?

 

[Arian]

And those who dont worship are the biggest jokes

yea lets just all shut down our brains and reason and believe in words that were written, rewritten, and translated around 2k years ago by people, during a time where they still believed witches and demons exist. seems legit. not to mention the fact, that there were around 3k gods in human history, but this one is the real one because of... reasons... lets ignore the fact that the average used bible has around 10k differences to the oldest known bible. lets ignore the fact that the old scriptures contradict many scientific facts. lets just dont think right? because thats faith.

you do that sir. and enjoy wasting your life while youre at it.

 

[Marin]

yea lets just all shut down our brains and reason and believe in words that were written, rewritten, and translated around 2k years ago by people, during a time where they still believed witches and demons exist. seems legit. not to mention the fact, that there were around 3k gods in human history, but this one is the real one because of... reasons... lets ignore the fact that the average used bible has around 10k differences to the oldest known bible. lets ignore the fact that the old scriptures contradict many scientific facts. lets just dont think right? because thats faith.

you do that sir. and enjoy wasting your life while youre at it.

I saw you drop by my threads, didn't even say hi. :bdpf:

 

[CloyEscapade]

According to the Holy Bible, God created Hell for the Devil and his angels, and for Sinners and those who are not saved. But why would a loving God do this? Why does He want His own creations to suffer for eternity in Hell? If He exists. I've done plenty of research on multiple religions. Each religion, more or less, seems to believe in a Hell or multiple Narakas. Why would such divine beings create such an agonizing place to be?

Why create Hell for people to suffer in for eternity? (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) or a near eternity (Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism)?

Is this Hell a true place that God created for us sinners to go to when we die? Is this Hell the Earth itself? Or is this a tool used since ancient times to control mankind out of fear?

If he knows everything then he must've known satan would fall. Has to send him somewhere

 

[Punk Hazard]

IIRC the bible makes no actual direct reference to Hellfire.

 

[nefraiko]

why god punishs people for eternity ? no one knows but him.

 

[demon of the leaf]

yea lets just all shut down our brains and reason and believe in words that were written, rewritten, and translated around 2k years ago by people, during a time where they still believed witches and demons exist. seems legit. not to mention the fact, that there were around 3k gods in human history, but this one is the real one because of... reasons... lets ignore the fact that the average used bible has around 10k differences to the oldest known bible. lets ignore the fact that the old scriptures contradict many scientific facts. lets just dont think right? because thats faith.

you do that sir. and enjoy wasting your life while youre at it.

And i should care what a joke like you thinks of my life choices last i checked your acting just like the religious that whom you persecute on every thread on religion you base your findings on unproven theorys and act as if they are fact those very scientists who are athests dont know everything about anything and attacking religion is not scientific it is hypocrisy which many athests are just as hypocritical as any religious person athests are just as much if not more likely to do inhuman attracitys then a religious person

In ether case there is no 100% way you can proove and no way i could 100% proove to you on account of ethers evidence i could refute yours just as much as you to mine but if its an insult well you bring that wrath on yourself so ether be respectful or i will keep firing back

 

[heiwasozo]

I will gladly clear up the confusion here; I am a bible teacher and have studied extensively God's views on punishment, life and death. This will be a condensed, simple answer. If you have further questions feel free to ask.

First of all, take a look at a few passages from the bible. You can find these in any translation (I study out of 5-6 different ones.)

1. Those in hell are unconscious and so cannot feel pain. “There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol.”—Ecclesiastes 9:10.

2. Good people go to hell. The faithful men Jacob and Job expected to go there.—Genesis 37:35; Job 14:13.

3. Death, not torment in a fiery hell, is the penalty for sin. “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”—Romans 6:7.

4. Eternal torment would violate God’s justice. (Deuteronomy 32:4) When the first man, Adam, sinned, God told him that his punishment would simply be to pass out of existence: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) God would have been lying if he were actually sending Adam to a fiery hell.

5. God does not even contemplate eternal torment. The idea that he would punish people in hellfire is contrary to the Bible’s teaching that “God is love.”—1 John 4:8; Jeremiah 7:31.


Long story short: the teaching of a tormenting, suffering hell is human-made and orchestrated (no offense to anyone) primarily by the catholic church and the Devil. It has no basis in the bible and contradicts God's way of rule.

Hell as a fiery place of torment does not exist. It is the common grave where all people go before resurrection.

 

[heiwasozo]

check my answer

 

[Punk Hazard]

I will gladly clear up the confusion here; I am a bible teacher and have studied extensively God's views on punishment, life and death. This will be a condensed, simple answer. If you have further questions feel free to ask.

First of all, take a look at a few passages from the bible. You can find these in any translation (I study out of 5-6 different ones.)

1. Those in hell are unconscious and so cannot feel pain. “There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol.”—Ecclesiastes 9:10.

2. Good people go to hell. The faithful men Jacob and Job expected to go there.—Genesis 37:35; Job 14:13.

3. Death, not torment in a fiery hell, is the penalty for sin. “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”—Romans 6:7.

4. Eternal torment would violate God’s justice. (Deuteronomy 32:4) When the first man, Adam, sinned, God told him that his punishment would simply be to pass out of existence: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) God would have been lying if he were actually sending Adam to a fiery hell.

5. God does not even contemplate eternal torment. The idea that he would punish people in hellfire is contrary to the Bible’s teaching that “God is love.”—1 John 4:8; Jeremiah 7:31.


Long story short: the teaching of a tormenting, suffering hell is human-made and orchestrated (no offense to anyone) primarily by the catholic church and the Devil. It has no basis in the bible and contradicts God's way of rule.

Hell as a fiery place of torment does not exist. It is the common grave where all people go before resurrection.

To add onto this, the reason people have interpreted the existence of Hellfire in the bible is because of Matthew 25:41, which mentions “the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” People thought this meant eternal torment in the flames of Hell, but the context of the rest of the Bible makes this interpretation inconsistent with several verses in Revelations that say the unrighteous will perish and cease to exist.

The verse that gave way to the interpretation of Hellfire simply means that the death that will come to Satan, his goons, and the unrighteous will be a permanent one, meaning there will be no resurrection. Not that they will be tormented for eternity, they'll just be dead for eternity.

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[heiwasozo]

Nicely said. Are you also a bible student?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Nicely said. Are you also a bible student?

I used to be. I don't believe in God now, but I find the Bible interesting as a mythos.

 

[Deadlift]

I will gladly clear up the confusion here; I am a bible teacher and have studied extensively God's views on punishment, life and death. This will be a condensed, simple answer. If you have further questions feel free to ask.

Please clarify that your take on it is your personal position, which coincides with an heretical view named apokatastasis, not the correct teaching of orthodox Christianity

First of all, take a look at a few passages from the bible. You can find these in any translation (I study out of 5-6 different ones.)

Biblical inerrancy is not synonymous with Biblical literalism, you know it better with anyone else here since you stated you're a Bible teacher. If one could simply read the Bible as it is, there wouldn't be any need for people like you who are supposed to explain the real meaning of the text

1. Those in hell are unconscious and so cannot feel pain. “There is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol.”—Ecclesiastes 9:10.

Sheol is not synonym with Hell, but it's the term which was used in the Old Testament to describe the realm of the dead (Hades if you want). According to the Christian doctrine, people didn't go to Heaven or Hell in that time, but were exactly sent to Sheol. Things changed after the Passion and Resurrection of Jesus.

2. Good people go to hell. The faithful men Jacob and Job expected to go there.—Genesis 37:35; Job 14:13.

Same as above, there's no Hell for people in the Old Testament

3. Death, not torment in a fiery hell, is the penalty for sin. “He who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”—Romans 6:7.

Let's differentiate a little the meanings that the word "death" had in the New Testament:

1) physical death, the one that both you and I will experience. According to the book of Genesis, it entered the world after the Fall of Man. So yes, it's indeed linked to humans' sin, but not in the way you want it to be

2) metaphorical death, the one that in the Book of Revelation is called "the second death", which I wish both you and I won't experience. It's nothing more than a metaphor for damnation. Revelation 20:13-14 is a good example

Anyway, the verse you quoted had nothing to do with Hell and damnation. It was about how our old, sinful self needs to "die" for inherit Eternal life (which is not to be confused with afterlife). Just like a slave who dies and ceases to be subject to his master, so a sinner ceases to be controlled by sin after being born again in Christ

4. Eternal torment would violate God’s justice. (Deuteronomy 32:4) When the first man, Adam, sinned, God told him that his punishment would simply be to pass out of existence: “Dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) God would have been lying if he were actually sending Adam to a fiery hell.

The one you posted is exactly a metaphor to explain how death entered in this world after the Fall of Man, plus, we don't know what happened to Adam. Only God knows who will be saved or damned, Adam might be in Heaven now

5. God does not even contemplate eternal torment. The idea that he would punish people in hellfire is contrary to the Bible’s teaching that “God is love.”—1 John 4:8; Jeremiah 7:31.

Of course God is love, and that's exactly the point. Check my answer some pages back for more

Long story short: the teaching of a tormenting, suffering hell is human-made and orchestrated (no offense to anyone) primarily by the catholic church and the Devil. It has no basis in the bible and contradicts God's way of rule.

Hell as a fiery place of torment does not exist. It is the common grave where all people go before resurrection.

While I don't even disagree with the core concept of this one, the one about the Catholic Church is simply incorrect. Catholics developed a legalistic view of sin and afterlife, that has been resumed by the Protestants, and that's especially thanks to the works of Saint Augustine. But this has nothing to do with "inventing" the concept of Hell. Just think that the Catholic Church was officially born in 1054 and early Christians like Saint Justin Martyr (150 AD) were very concerned about affirming the reality of Hell.
Plus, if Hell was just a Catholic thing, it wouldn't follow that Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian churches and the overwhelming majority of Protestant sects and of the Christendom agree with the Catholic Church that Hell is real.
So, the one about the Catholic Church and the devil was rather insulting, and I would ask you to refrain from such jabs in future, at least for the sake of the debate

 

[Оdin]

Because he gave us free will to determine our destiny. Do good and follow his simple set of rules and you will go to Heaven; do bad and don't follow his rules and you will go somewhere else.

 

[Arian]

And i should care what a joke like you thinks of my life choices last i checked your acting just like the religious that whom you persecute on every thread on religion you base your findings on unproven theorys and act as if they are fact those very scientists who are athests dont know everything about anything and attacking religion is not scientific it is hypocrisy which many athests are just as hypocritical as any religious person athests are just as much if not more likely to do inhuman attracitys then a religious person

In ether case there is no 100% way you can proove and no way i could 100% proove to you on account of ethers evidence i could refute yours just as much as you to mine but if its an insult well you bring that wrath on yourself so ether be respectful or i will keep firing back

lets see: my proofs consist of scientific studies and experiments over the last century in different topics, such as chemistry, biology, physics, maths, etc. studies and experiments done by scientists, for the sole purpose of knowing, without any power or financial interest whatsoever. most theorys im usually referring to, or am using as argument, pretty much are theorys, that have prooven themselfes time and time again, to the point they pretty much could be considerated fact. evolution is one of those examples.

you on the other hand have what? the bible? the quran? what kind of pathetic argument is that? a book written by numerous people over a timespan of 2k years during a time where people still believed in flat earth and witches holds more scientific value then 1century worth of proper science of different fields? appareantly its convenient for religious people to ignore all those errors done by rewriting and translating, let alone all those contradictions or scientificly wrong storys like noahs arc or adam and eve. while were at it, lets ignore the fact how many millions the church is making of its victims (yea i call christians victims cause theyre being robbed their money and brainwashed), so of course they dont want their members to think for themselves. last time i checked, moslem or islam itself meant something like the obedient one? like wtf how could anyone take this shit seriously is beyond me. so yea i definitly am judging you on your poor life choices. i judge you for supporting such a horrible and evil institution, which persecutes anything that wasnt the norm 2k years ago. i judge you for supporting any religion which is homophobic, sciencephobic, women hating, critic hating.

science is truth. nothing more nothing less. and because its truth it works. or else our planes wouldnt work. our computers wouldnt work. our medicine wouldnt work. etc etc. no i cant proove anything science says to 100% but guess what. science gets pretty close to that. sciences says according to scientific rules and facts and theorys things like medicine or technology works. whens the last time prayer worked for you though? thats way better than what your religions says or does. whens the last time prayer healed a separated leg, cancer or a psychological illness? if your god works in mysterious ways and hears your prayer, why even bother going to a doctor when youre sick? why not just pray? why not just let the illness happen and kill you? it would be gods way after all...
lol you can try "firing back", but really thats not even a real debate, more like a teacher teaching a pre school kid about how the world works and how there is no santa out there. better arguments win a debate, and untill now, whenever i debated a religious guy it was always proven scientific facts vs "bruuuh god did this it is called faith..."

and you chose the latter one and think youre standing a chance. it would be cute, if you were a kid, but really its only just pathetic.

 

[heiwasozo]

Please clarify that your take on it is your personal position, which coincides with an heretical view named apokatastasis, not the correct teaching of orthodox Christianity



Biblical inerrancy is not synonymous with Biblical literalism, you know it better with anyone else here since you stated you're a Bible teacher. If one could simply read the Bible as it is, there wouldn't be any need for people like you who are supposed to explain the real meaning of the text


Sheol is not synonym with Hell, but it's the term which was used in the Old Testament to describe the realm of the dead (Hades if you want). According to the Christian doctrine, people didn't go to Heaven or Hell in that time, but were exactly sent to Sheol. Things changed after the Passion and Resurrection of Jesus.



Same as above, there's no Hell for people in the Old Testament



Let's differentiate a little the meanings that the word "death" had in the New Testament:

1) physical death, the one that both you and I will experience. According to the book of Genesis, it entered the world after the Fall of Man. So yes, it's indeed linked to humans' sin, but not in the way you want it to be

2) metaphorical death, the one that in the Book of Revelation is called "the second death", which I wish both you and I won't experience. It's nothing more than a metaphor for damnation. Revelation 20:13-14 is a good example

Anyway, the verse you quoted had nothing to do with Hell and damnation. It was about how our old, sinful self needs to "die" for inherit Eternal life (which is not to be confused with afterlife). Just like a slave who dies and ceases to be subject to his master, so a sinner ceases to be controlled by sin after being born again in Christ



The one you posted is exactly a metaphor to explain how death entered in this world after the Fall of Man, plus, we don't know what happened to Adam. Only God knows who will be saved or damned, Adam might be in Heaven now



Of course God is love, and that's exactly the point. Check my answer some pages back for more




While I don't even disagree with the core concept of this one, the one about the Catholic Church is simply incorrect. Catholics developed a legalistic view of sin and afterlife, that has been resumed by the Protestants, and that's especially thanks to the works of Saint Augustine. But this has nothing to do with "inventing" the concept of Hell. Just think that the Catholic Church was officially born in 1054 and early Christians like Saint Justin Martyr (150 AD) were very concerned about affirming the reality of Hell.
Plus, if Hell was just a Catholic thing, it wouldn't follow that Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian churches and the overwhelming majority of Protestant sects and of the Christendom agree with the Catholic Church that Hell is real.
So, the one about the Catholic Church and the devil was rather insulting, and I would ask you to refrain from such jabs in future, at least for the sake of the debate

Everything you've stated has not a single reference of proof (and is thus false and completely opinionated) and is as biased as I can possibly conceive. Repost your opinion piece with references and drop the sarcastic, snarky undertone. It does not make you seem intelligent, just arrogant and childish.

If you notice, my response was based upon the chief text (the bible). Your's? Not quite sure.

Also, no hell for those in the Old Testament? This is absurd. Why? Jesus came and died for the sins of all people, right? So why would those in the Old Testament be negated from this "hell" and only those in the New? It would negate the purpose of the Ransom Sacrifice.. Illogical.

Your little note on the meaning of "Death" is nothing but controversial argumentative rambling. We know what death is; it is when someone's essential life energy is gone and so they are no longer with us. Stop trying to seem intellectual by using meaningless descriptions of things we all know how to define.

There is such a massive amount of misunderstanding and satire in this post that I don't even know where to begin. I used bible text to define what hell is, God's position on it and that is all that is necessary. Not based on opinion (or doctrine), but bible text.

 

[nefraiko]

science is truth.

that, my friend, is absolutely not scientific. absolutely not.
lol

 

[Marin]

Everything you've stated has not a single reference of proof (and is thus false and completely opinionated) and is as biased as I can possibly conceive. Repost your opinion piece with references and drop the sarcastic, snarky undertone. It does not make you seem intelligent, just arrogant and childish.

There goes the facade of you being a Bible teacher. Catholic, Orthodox and mainstream Protestants all agree that hell is a very real concept of punishment, so annihilationism being a heresy and a minority view is a stone cold fact. Also, none of the stuff he said has the slightest tone of arrogance (in fact he only politely asked you to stop posing your opinion as the widely accepted doctrince) while this statement of yours is full of it.

If you notice, my response was based upon the chief text (the bible). Your's? Not quite sure.

Correction, your response was based on a very skewed view of the writings, those which are not at all a clear-cut manner as far as deciphering their "true" meaning is concerned.

Also, no hell for those in the Old Testament? This is absurd. Why? Jesus came and died for the sins of all people, right? So why would those in the Old Testament be negated from this "hell" and only those in the New? It would negate the purpose of the Ransom Sacrifice.. Illogical.

He's right. Judaism had no real concept of Hell nor Heaven. Most of them believed in the ressurection but that would be at the End of Days and would be a bodily one, not spiritual. Ofcourse, there were many sects and Judaism was far from well-organised in it's teachings but the typical ancient jew's view (at the time of the events described) was that the soul goes to Sheol where it simply rests until the day of ressurection. It was in this light that the old testament writings were created, not at all in a ransom way which is still to this day considered heretical by the Jews.

Your little note on the meaning of "Death" is nothing but controversial argumentative rambling. We know what death is; it is when someone's essential life energy is gone and so they are no longer with us. Stop trying to seem intellectual by using meaningless descriptions of things we all know how to define.

@bold: As is your whole post. Hypocrite.

That's again your perspective on death. No less of an opinion that his. And also, you should stop trying to sound educated by insisting to be a Bible teacher as that information is totally useless to everyone here (unless you're trying to make claims to authority which is bad in itself).

There is such a massive amount of misunderstanding and satire in this post that I don't even know where to begin. I used bible text to define what hell is, God's position on it and that is all that is necessary. Not based on opinion (or doctrine), but bible text.

You say it's not based on doctrine but insist your view is the true reading of the text. Sounds quite doctrinal to me.

 

[Deadlift]

Everything you've stated has not a single reference of proof (and is thus false and completely opinionated) and is as biased as I can possibly conceive. Repost your opinion piece with references and drop the sarcastic, snarky undertone. It does not make you seem intelligent, just arrogant and childish.

If you notice, my response was based upon the chief text (the bible). Your's? Not quite sure.

Also, no hell for those in the Old Testament? This is absurd. Why? Jesus came and died for the sins of all people, right? So why would those in the Old Testament be negated from this "hell" and only those in the New? It would negate the purpose of the Ransom Sacrifice.. Illogical.

Your little note on the meaning of "Death" is nothing but controversial argumentative rambling. We know what death is; it is when someone's essential life energy is gone and so they are no longer with us. Stop trying to seem intellectual by using meaningless descriptions of things we all know how to define.

There is such a massive amount of misunderstanding and satire in this post that I don't even know where to begin. I used bible text to define what hell is, God's position on it and that is all that is necessary. Not based on opinion (or doctrine), but bible text.

Since you (deliberately?) misunderstood everything I said, I won't be replying back

 

[Marin]

lets see: my proofs consist of scientific studies and experiments over the last century in different topics, such as chemistry, biology, physics, maths, etc. studies and experiments done by scientists, for the sole purpose of knowing, without any power or financial interest whatsoever. most theorys im usually referring to, or am using as argument, pretty much are theorys, that have prooven themselfes time and time again, to the point they pretty much could be considerated fact. evolution is one of those examples.

Your posts consist solely of bashing and introducing biased sources for which you support no argumentation what so ever. Every time someone tries to make a point you write it off as bogus and throw your basic new-atheist mockery just as you do in this thread right now.

you on the other hand have what? the bible? the quran? what kind of pathetic argument is that? a book written by numerous people over a timespan of 2k years during a time where people still believed in flat earth and witches holds more scientific value then 1century worth of proper science of different fields? appareantly its convenient for religious people to ignore all those errors done by rewriting and translating, let alone all those contradictions or scientificly wrong storys like noahs arc or adam and eve. while were at it, lets ignore the fact how many millions the church is making of its victims (yea i call christians victims cause theyre being robbed their money and brainwashed), so of course they dont want their members to think for themselves. last time i checked, moslem or islam itself meant something like the obedient one? like wtf how could anyone take this shit seriously is beyond me. so yea i definitly am judging you on your poor life choices. i judge you for supporting such a horrible and evil institution, which persecutes anything that wasnt the norm 2k years ago. i judge you for supporting any religion which is homophobic, sciencephobic, women hating, critic hating.

Great job at assuming what he believes and on what grounds he argues. I'd say that you lost your credibility at this point, but that would imply that you had any in the first place.

science is truth. nothing more nothing less. and because its truth it works. or else our planes wouldnt work. our computers wouldnt work. our medicine wouldnt work. etc etc. no i cant proove anything science says to 100% but guess what. science gets pretty close to that. sciences says according to scientific rules and facts and theorys things like medicine or technology works. whens the last time prayer worked for you though? thats way better than what your religions says or does. whens the last time prayer healed a separated leg, cancer or a psychological illness? if your god works in mysterious ways and hears your prayer, why even bother going to a doctor when youre sick? why not just pray? why not just let the illness happen and kill you? it would be gods way after all...
lol you can try "firing back", but really thats not even a real debate, more like a teacher teaching a pre school kid about how the world works and how there is no santa out there. better arguments win a debate, and untill now, whenever i debated a religious guy it was always proven scientific facts vs "bruuuh god did this it is called faith..."

and you chose the latter one and think youre standing a chance. it would be cute, if you were a kid, but really its only just pathetic.

@bold: Congradulations, you don't know what science is.

If you put as much effort in actually hearing other people out as you do in bashing them and putting words in their mouth maybe you'd get somewhere, but eh, not much can be expected from a group whose ring-leader insists that the proper way to rationality is not in reasoning or debate but in mockery.