ZoroXTashigi
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It's fact ...
- PK is the strongest ... (mentioned by Chinjao)
- If the crew died, you can change them ... but not the Captain.
[Discussion] Which charactor do you feel is the most overhyped in the One Piece verse????
- Thread starter HashiraMadara SenjUchiha
- Start date
- PK is the strongest ... (mentioned by Chinjao)
- If the crew died, you can change them ... but not the Captain.
Punk Hazard
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Explain how an amazingly strong man makes it out of the Grand Line to Raftel without any help from others.
Better yet, explain how Luffy does this.
ZoroXTashigi
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I never saying the crew not important, but the captain is more important, because the captain that tied them together become pirate group. Without Luffy, SH is done, but without crew, Luffy can find another crew.
Punk Hazard
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No it's not.
A,weak captain but strong crew=some chance of becoming pirate king.
Captain, regardless of strength, by himself completely=0 chance of becoming Pirate King.
The whole "Luffy can find,another crew" argument doesn't work because the fact that Luffy would need to find another crew in the first place shows he needs a crew to become Pirate King. Especially since his individual strength wouldn't be affected in the first place from losing a crew.
ZoroXTashigi
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Return again if weak captain can become Pirate King, even manga didn't agree with you.
PK is the strongest but not everyone with strongest title is PK. Roger wasn't strongest because he has an equal despite being PK. You know if the captain dies , he can be replaced by someone else too. In your own theory, lost crew member is being replaced. Why? Because the captain needs a crew to achieve his goal. Everything Luffy has to offer to be PK is his strength, the combination of Zoro and Sanji far exceeds Luffy in strength so they can easily replace anything Luffy has to offer as a captain. So I don't see why captain is so special when crew member are more than capable of replicating Luffy's role when Luffy's not capable of pulling anything other crew members can do. Every little part of a crew is important to accomplish an objective including the weakest ones. Luffy can't do shit without a crew and vice versa.
Punk Hazard
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Yes. A weak captain can. Someone like Buggy can get an armada that dwarfs everyone else's forces and become Pirate King. A weak person can literally be so charismatic, he has his powerful subordinates do all the fighting for him, then if they find OP, he becomes PK because he's their leader.
ZoroXTashigi
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Well, If it your manga, maybe Buggy will become one. But, the manga that I read, PK is special case ... King over a King.
Hell, even in manga that I read, 5 important Buggy's followers, changed side to the correct PK's candidate.
For the record, Luffy and BB are special (the premier candidate so far).
KingHashirama
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@Riker, funny how you keep mentioning Buggy over and over.. yet everyone under buggy is weaker than him. Another example of Captain needing to be strong. If he wasn't stronger than them, they wouldn't follow him.
Strongest in the sense we are talking about is defined by who would win in a 1 vs 1. Which would be the Pirate King himself. Whitebeard/Garp are mentioned to be on par with him, meaning on his level and able to go toe to toe with him. Doesn't automatically make them the same in power.
@Bold, if luffy was replaced it wouldn't be the Strawhats group, unless the new captain chose to keep it that way. It would also no longer be Luffy's crew.
Its pretty naive to even claim that the people who captain gathers are more important than the captain himself, who is gathering all those people. They are all following luffy, luffy isn't following them. Sure can they replace luffy after he dies? sure.. will it be the same? no.
However, if Zoro/Sanji/Nami and etc die and get replaced, the strawhats will still be the strawhats. As Monkey D. Luffy will still be incharge.
Having an equal in strength =/= not being the strongest.
Strongest in the sense we are talking about is defined by who would win in a 1 vs 1. Which would be the Pirate King himself. Whitebeard/Garp are mentioned to be on par with him, meaning on his level and able to go toe to toe with him. Doesn't automatically make them the same in power.
@Bold, if luffy was replaced it wouldn't be the Strawhats group, unless the new captain chose to keep it that way. It would also no longer be Luffy's crew.
Its pretty naive to even claim that the people who captain gathers are more important than the captain himself, who is gathering all those people. They are all following luffy, luffy isn't following them. Sure can they replace luffy after he dies? sure.. will it be the same? no.
However, if Zoro/Sanji/Nami and etc die and get replaced, the strawhats will still be the strawhats. As Monkey D. Luffy will still be incharge.
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ZoroXTashigi
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The PK is the strongest, PK may have a rival, but he still stronger than them.
Well, do you really think if Luffy die, Zoro will make himself become captain and still keep SH flag? Let alone the other follow him, and make him become PK.
But, if some SH's crew die they will still move forward. The captain is what make them become one.
Just look at
- Roger's Crew, captain died ........disband.
- WB's Crew, captain died .......... 16 ally got slaughtered by Weevil.
If you have an equal it literally means that you're not the strongest because there is someone with as much caliber as you do and you can't be stronger than him. Whitebeard implied to be Roger's absolute equal not as someone on his level. You can find a lot of people on the same level as Roger with some of them being Rayleigh,Shiki and Garp. However they're not his equals hence Wb became the strongest after Roger's death.
Roger never defeated Wb or vice versa hence they were regarded as rivals with equal strength. Roger became pirate king because he explored whole GL not because he defeated Whitebeard and every single pirate out there.
We're discussing this from general prospective not just about SH's. Name of the crew is irrelevant. A captain needs a crew to be PK and vice versa so neither holds more relevance than the other regardless of whatever the crew we're talking about. And it's pretty dump to even think that someone with strength alone can explore GL when the guy couldn't even get past Red line on his own. Crew doesn't become capable just because captain gathers them. I am fairly certain about Luffy failing to become PK with Buggy level crew as a back up no matter how strong he is. I guess this alone is more than enough to understand how important a crew is.
Again you're missing the point. Luffy'd still rely on someone a.k.a crew to accomplish his goal so the fact remains Luffy can accomplish it without having to rely on crew. If Luffy gets replaced by say Ace for example; Ace can become PK. Replace Luffy with Sabo he'll be PK because he's strong and he has great crew. Bottom line is A good crew member is just as important as crews captain.
Answered above.
ZoroXTashigi
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Roger become PK and become the strongest because he can bypass all the obstacle that come to him. Roger didn't defeat all pirate out there, same implied to WB, he become the strongest after Roger died, even though he didn't defeat all human out there.
If we talking about PK, we must talking about Captain that have a quality to become one. We can't just make every bloody pirate out there as a sample. Brook indeed became Captain after his previous Captain died, but he wasn't special captain. From many sample we must choose the perfect one as a sample. SH is the perfect one if we talking about a captain that have a possibility to become PK. The captain have a role that can't be take over by other crew. It's same in every pirates that have a good Captain. What happen to the crew if BB, Shanks, Kaido, and BM die? If you can understand this, you can't just pick a person and make it fit as a captain.
The thing you're missing is that one can't become PK with some random bloody pirate crew out there similar to how a crew can't make a bloody pirate the PK. A good crew is just as important as it's captain. I don't know how it's so hard to understand. As strong as he is Luffy'd never make it up to the top without a capable crew like wise SH crew can't make someone like Buggy the PK.But if you replace Luffy with a capable dude such as Ace then they can make him PK.
KingHashirama
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It actually, depends on the context.
@Bold, an assumption that has no backing in the manga.
1. "A captain needs a crew to be PK"... yes he does. How does he get the crew, while being shit himself. Luffy /Buggy/WB/Roger/Barto/Law/Kidd all have their crew because they themselves are powerful.
2. How many times in one piece, has the end fight come down to luffy? Where if he loses everything ends? The only reason the series even made it past the second chapter is .. because of luffy being strong. Not because of luffy having a crew.
A captain's strength > A crew.
Captain's strength is what will get him the crew. A weak captain will never become the pirate king. A strong captain is needed to survive. As long as the captain is strong, he will be capable of finding strong crewmates.
PS: for the whole "whitebeard is equal to roger".. are you using the scan as a reference:
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lol ZoroXTashigi clearly provided clear cut proof that you need to be one of the strongest if not THE strongest to be PK. Not to mention with this its clear. Bottom left.
Now how do you suppose someone is supposed to defeat the Marine Admirals and Yonkou? Cause thats what being the PK is according to Chinjao, you think thats gonna happen because of a crew? The strongest from both sides will face off.
Yonkou Captain vs Yonkou Captain, we all know this, don't even try to make it about anything else. So if you cant bring the strongest guy from the other side, you lose. It doesnt matter what your crew does it all comes down to you beating the other sides strongest.
Look at any arc in One Piece. Would defeating the baroque works do anything for the SH's if Luffy did not beat Croc?
Would defeating the rest of the Cp9 mean anything if Luffy was not able to beat Rob Lucci?
Obviously a crew is important, it works both ways (in order for you to be able to fight the strongest 1v1 you need that crew to hold the others off) but there is no doubt you have to have something that separates you from the others because we all know the other Yonkous have a hell of a crew as well, something that at the end of the day will give you that W.
Now Im not saying Luffy has to be the strongest man to ever live, cause quite honestly Luffy always beats people stronger than him. BUT being PK means you have more chances of defeating the other top tier forces in the verse, vs them defeating you.
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Now how do you suppose someone is supposed to defeat the Marine Admirals and Yonkou? Cause thats what being the PK is according to Chinjao, you think thats gonna happen because of a crew? The strongest from both sides will face off.
Yonkou Captain vs Yonkou Captain, we all know this, don't even try to make it about anything else. So if you cant bring the strongest guy from the other side, you lose. It doesnt matter what your crew does it all comes down to you beating the other sides strongest.
Look at any arc in One Piece. Would defeating the baroque works do anything for the SH's if Luffy did not beat Croc?
Would defeating the rest of the Cp9 mean anything if Luffy was not able to beat Rob Lucci?
Obviously a crew is important, it works both ways (in order for you to be able to fight the strongest 1v1 you need that crew to hold the others off) but there is no doubt you have to have something that separates you from the others because we all know the other Yonkous have a hell of a crew as well, something that at the end of the day will give you that W.
Now Im not saying Luffy has to be the strongest man to ever live, cause quite honestly Luffy always beats people stronger than him. BUT being PK means you have more chances of defeating the other top tier forces in the verse, vs them defeating you.
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Punk Hazard
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I said Buggy COULD become Pirate King, I never said he WOULD. There is a huge difference. You COULD survive a fall from a plane, doesn't mean you WOULD.
Five of Buggy's followers left not because Luffy was the PK candidate, but because one of their comrades were saved by the outcome of Luffy vs Doflamingo, and he felt indebted. They followed Luffy because someone they have a strong bond with, their nakama, asked them to join him in being Luffy's subordinate. It had nothing to do with Luffy's desire or potential of becoming Pirate King.
Not true. They followed Buggy because they stupidly see him as a powerhouse. Buggy basically brainwashed people into believing he was stronger than them, as strong as freakin' Whitebeard, which is why they follow him; another factor is the fact that they believe Buggy orchestrated their escape from Impel Down and path to freedom. Speaking of Whitebeard, when Marco questioned why he was asking Buggy for help and speaking to him the way he was, Whitebeard said that Buggy was inconsequential, he was irrelevant, but the people he had following him would be a pain in the ass to deal with. WHITEBEARD said this about the people following Buggy while dismissing Buggy in the same breath. So no, Buggy is not stronger than his followers. Even if Buggy was stronger than each of his followers through individual comparison, Buggy is not stronger than all of his followers put together. Which is the point of me mentioning Buggy. He could never fight, just hiding like a coward and convincing his followers to do all of the fighting for him, until they found One Piece or completed the journey around the world, which earn Buggy the title of Pirate King because he's the leader of the people that accomplished it.
It doesn't matter how many times you post the scan of Chinjao saying that the person who will become Pirate King will defeat the other candidates once they get to the top. If they don't have a substantial crew, it won't matter how strong they are because they WILL die and NEVER make it to the top and to Raftel to even fight the other candidates in the first place. That is why Luffy wants a crew. That is why every pirate save for Mihawk attempts to expand their crews. That is why Luffy gave the speech to Arlong. Sure, Luffy has the strength, sure he can "beat [them]," but that's irrelevant when he can't even make it out of one town, much less one island. Luffy could be stronger than Kaido, but if all he had was his rowboat in East Blue, then a fruit somewhere will be transformed into the Gomu Gomu no Mi.
PLEEEEASE explain how the strongest man alive will become Pirate King if he starts off in Loguetown with absolutely no help ever on his quest to do so. Is he gonna punch himself across the oceans? Is he gonna feed himself by defeating the people in Loguetown? Is he gonna navigate with his durability?
That's what the Pirate King is according to Chinjao. Funny how Whitebeard was the world's strongest man, funny how Kaido is now the world's strongest man, meaning he is acknowledged to be able to defeat the Yonko and Admirals, meaning they both have surpassed them, and yet they weren't called Pirate King. That's because you don't need to beat everyone to be Pirate King, you need to find One Piece and complete the trip around the world. You just so happen to have several people gunning after the same spot, so there is competition. Someone who sneakily travels the seas, avoiding fights and taking discrete routes and using knowledge of where One Piece is could become Pirate King without defeating any of those people. Defeating them is NOT the only possible way to achieving the status of Pirate King, it's just the most prominent and in no way 100% unavoidable.
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KingHashirama
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So far, hes shown to be the strongest of his crew... no need for brainwashing.
Those people who he had from the prison, weren't yet part of his "crew". They were simply following him.
Those people who he had from the prison, weren't yet part of his "crew". They were simply following him.
Rikerslade is actually right here
Doesn't mean however that the initial perception of a pirate king is that he is the strongest alive. It still requires great strength to be accepted by his subordinates except in exceptional cases of gag characters like Buggy
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Doesn't mean however that the initial perception of a pirate king is that he is the strongest alive. It still requires great strength to be accepted by his subordinates except in exceptional cases of gag characters like Buggy
Lol like Roger sneakily travelled the seas.
Is it possible to obtain it like youre saying? Who knows.
Does the definition of PK mean the strongest? No
But Roger has been implied to be....and hes the only man who's done it. So we use him as an example like Chinjao clearly does.