[Discussion] What is a Swordsman in One Piece?

HashiraMadara

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What is a Swordsman in One Piece? Law and Fujitaro were classified swordsmen by Oda, from that leaving me having million questions about the endless Shanks debates...

This quote from reddit got me semi confirming what I have been suspecting all along
"I feel like the only reason why people put restrictions on being the worlds greatest swordsman is because they don't wanna entertain the possibility that Mihawk could be stronger than Shanks and Fujitora."
 
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Guntah

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Someone who uses a goddamn sword. And anyone who tries to argue anything else is just an idiot.

Just because Mijawk isn't stronger than Shanks or Fujitora doesn't mean he's not better at using a sword than they are, especially when Mihawk's entire arsenal is reliant upon his swords while Shanks is a Haki monster and Fujitora has his own gravity devil fruit.
 

HashiraMadara

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Just because Mijawk isn't stronger than Shanks or Fujitora doesn't mean he's not better at using a sword than they are, especially when Mihawk's entire arsenal is reliant upon his swords while Shanks is a Haki monster and Fujitora has his own gravity devil fruit.
* Wait, if Shanks is a Haki monster, can we assume Mingo is one as well or Big Mom? Because Shanks used CoC and got complemented on it once and any other time he's been using a sword to fight or prepare for battle. Meaning he is no different from a Zoro who happens to have CoC so far...

* I don't remember Fuji using that gravity without some few sword strokes, heck the sword might be the thing that ate devil fruit instead of him.

* Mihawk fodderized Zoro with a knife(not a sword)

These things leave vague explanations from bias fans during discussions
 
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Guntah

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* Wait, if Shanks is a Haki monster, can we assume Mingo is one as well or Big Mom? Because Shanks used CoC and got complemented on it once and any other time he's been using a sword to fight or prepare for battle. Meaning he is no different from a Zoro who happens to have CoC so far...


Well, there really is no way to measure Shanks' level of Haki for sure or how Mingo and Linlin compare to him. In an SBS, Oda did mention that if Shanks was in Luffy's place during Fishman Island, his Conquerer's Haki would've knocked all 100,000 enemies out in one go rather than just half of them. Some argue this includes Jones too, but that and his brief Whitebeard clash give us the biggest idea of how much power he holds right now. Seeing as we haven't seen Shanks actually fight yet, I imagine that when we do, the Haki he displays will be far above anything we've seen up until now given his status as a Yonkou even though he has no Devil Fruit unlike the three others.

I don't Fuji using that gravity without some few sword strokes, heck the sword might be the thing that ate devil fruit instead of him.
For now that's only assumption. My point is that without relying on devil fruits and haki, just pure swordsmanship, Shanks and Fujitaka most likely wouldn't beat Mihawk.
 

Dęvîa Puęrî

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Someone who's primary component in their fighting style is their sword.

That their sword is the base of their fighting style and it us centered around it

That's what I believe. I don't believe people are automatically swordsman because they use a sword. If they use a sword as a tool (akoiji with his ice sword. Or kizaru using a sword made up of light to fight the dark king. Also more controversaly law, yes he uses a sword and yes he was trained in it, but his fighting style revolves solely around his df he uses a sword as a means).

True swordsman uses swords as an extension of one's own self. I consider fuji a swordsman on the sole fact that he was a swordsman before getting his df which it was stated that he got recently

Someone who uses a goddamn sword. And anyone who tries to argue anything else is just an idiot.

Just because Mijawk isn't stronger than Shanks or Fujitora doesn't mean he's not better at using a sword than they are, especially when Mihawk's entire arsenal is reliant upon his swords while Shanks is a Haki monster and Fujitora has his own gravity devil fruit.
I wish others would use your viewpoint.. ppl automatically assume that zoro is stronger then law on the sole fact that he is destined to he both the first mate of the future pirate king and the greatest swordsman. Despite having zero feats to suggest he can deal with someone like laws df.. people like to bring up the fact that zoro performed well against df users.. But one df user steel swordsman while was a good df user, his fighting style was one dimensional and had no surprises to it, the other user kaku literally just got his df. Both are still swordsman, kaku being swordsman prior and the other guy his df made him a literal walking sword.
Law is very unpredictable and calculating, his fruit to me personally has to many variables for zoro's current feats to deal with. It also doesn't help how he made vergo (a physical fighter just like zoro who fights for the most part in a one dimensional manner save for his cp9 sky walk and bamboo stick)
 
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HashiraMadara

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Someone who's primary component in their fighting style is their sword.

That their sword is the base of their fighting style and it us centered around it

That's what I believe. I don't believe people are automatically swordsman because they use a sword. If they use a sword as a tool (akoiji with his ice sword. Or kizaru using a sword made up of light to fight the dark king. Also more controversaly law, yes he uses a sword and yes he was trained in it, but his fighting style revolves solely around his df he uses a sword as a means).

True swordsman uses swords as an extension of one's own self. I consider fuji a swordsman on the sole fact that he was a swordsman before getting his df which it was stated that he got recently


Kizaru and Kuzan fought using different styles the entire series, whereas Oda straight up called Law a Swordsman and his techniques all revolve around swordsmanship. Even in Zou when The guardians shook a few tree branches Law and Zoro immediately draw their Swords! Shanks and Fuji are no different, every technique they have shown in the series has something to do with a Sword. Zoro once told Kaku a swordsman talks with his sword.

With this I find it plainly foolish to omit Law, Fuji and Shanks as swordsmen until further notice(only fanboys will try and bend this definition). You can't go around seeking Mihawk for death battles that echo across the entire grandline if you not a swordsman!
 

TheLegend0713

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Its a bit late but the translation should be out either late today (gmt) or in the 1st half of tomorrow (gmt)
Thanks for the heads up, man.

Now for my two cents worth. I concur with Guntah and Devia. If they use a sword as their main way of fighting, they are a swordsman. To me, it makes sense to figure out who counts as a swordsman by considering if they'd fight any differently if they had Kairoseki/Seastone on. Based on that, Mr. 1 isn't a swordsman, he's just a sword man, pun intended. He doesn't have a sword without using his fruit, and he doesn't even really fight in the same way as an actual swordsman. Law may primarily use his sword as an implement, but he had actual training with in swordsmanship, so if he couldn't use his Ope Ope, he could still fight with his sword.
 

chopstickchakra

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* Wait, if Shanks is a Haki monster, can we assume Mingo is one as well or Big Mom? Because Shanks used CoC and got complemented on it once and any other time he's been using a sword to fight or prepare for battle. Meaning he is no different from a Zoro who happens to have CoC so far...

* I don't remember Fuji using that gravity without some few sword strokes, heck the sword might be the thing that ate devil fruit instead of him.

* Mihawk fodderized Zoro with a knife(not a sword)

These things leave vague explanations from bias fans during discussions
I thought that too at first but someone pointed out the scan of Fuji eating Ramen while calling down a meteor. As to your first point I'll entertain the possibility Mihawk is stronger than Shanks, it is possible, I just don't believe it will hold true. WSS simply and literally means you can beat anyone while you both are holding a sword but if you're opponent drops that sword and starts fighting via different methods WSS doesn't guarantee a victory in that scenario.
 

Dęvîa Puęrî

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Kizaru and Kuzan fought using different styles the entire series, whereas Oda straight up called Law a Swordsman and his techniques all revolve around swordsmanship. Even in Zou when The guardians shook a few tree branches Law and Zoro immediately draw their Swords! Shanks and Fuji are no different, every technique they have shown in the series has something to do with a Sword. Zoro once told Kaku a swordsman talks with his sword.

With this I find it plainly foolish to omit Law, Fuji and Shanks as swordsmen until further notice(only fanboys will try and bend this definition). You can't go around seeking Mihawk for death battles that echo across the entire grandline if you not a swordsman!
Law's fighting style does not revolve around his sword it revolves around his df. Hes uses a sword as a means that is all it is used for. Unless you believe law needs his sword to use his fruit if so then we have nothing else to discuss
 

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A swordsman is someone whose swordplay is a primary aspect of their power. Meaning that, while you can be a martial artist and a swordsman, your martial arts skills aren't going to be much higher than your swordplay. If while using swordplay you're losing a fight, and you switch to martial arts because it's your "real power," then you're not a swordsman.

Someone who uses a goddamn sword. And anyone who tries to argue anything else is just an idiot.

Just because Mijawk isn't stronger than Shanks or Fujitora doesn't mean he's not better at using a sword than they are, especially when Mihawk's entire arsenal is reliant upon his swords while Shanks is a Haki monster and Fujitora has his own gravity devil fruit.
That's not what his title means though. It means if you're a swordsman, he's stronger. I still find it hilarious that people think Shanks being a Haki monster means anything; Haki was noted to be very important to swordplay in the New World when the first thing Mihawk did was teach Zoro Haki and told him it was essential because even a chip in his sword is a shame as a swordsman.

People seem to forget that Haki is a supplementary power; it's not a fighting style, it enhances what your fighting style is. So Shanks+Monster Haki still inferior to Mihawk.

Law's fighting style does not revolve around his sword it revolves around his df. Hes uses a sword as a means that is all it is used for. Unless you believe law needs his sword to use his fruit if so then we have nothing else to discuss
This isn't true though. Law's fighting style primarily revolves around both his sword and his DF. Take away one or the other, and Law loses his fighting style. Doflamingo explicitly calls what Law does with his DF as "swordplay." If using a separate power through your sword means you're not a swordsman, then Zoro stopped being a swordsman when he started using Haki with his blades. Law's DF ability is just like Haki on a sword: It's a power that enhances your swordplay. Same with Fujitora.

I thought that too at first but someone pointed out the scan of Fuji eating Ramen while calling down a meteor. As to your first point I'll entertain the possibility Mihawk is stronger than Shanks, it is possible, I just don't believe it will hold true. WSS simply and literally means you can beat anyone while you both are holding a sword but if you're opponent drops that sword and starts fighting via different methods WSS doesn't guarantee a victory in that scenario.
Then you're not a swordsman in the One Piece world because you're just dicking around with a sword. We've seen that in the world of OP, being a swordsman is more than just a fighting style, it's a state of mind almost akin to a culture. No swordsman is so much stronger at another field that switching from one to the other turns the tides entirely.
 
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chopstickchakra

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A swordsman is someone whose swordplay is a primary aspect of their power. Meaning that, while you can be a martial artist and a swordsman, your martial arts skills aren't going to be much higher than your swordplay. If while using swordplay you're losing a fight, and you switch to martial arts because it's your "real power," then you're not a swordsman.



That's not what his title means though. It means if you're a swordsman, he's stronger. I still find it hilarious that people think Shanks being a Haki monster means anything; Haki was noted to be very important to swordplay in the New World when the first thing Mihawk did was teach Zoro Haki and told him it was essential because even a chip in his sword is a shame as a swordsman.

People seem to forget that Haki is a supplementary power; it's not a fighting style, it enhances what your fighting style is. So Shanks+Monster Haki still inferior to Mihawk.



This isn't true though. Law's fighting style primarily revolves around both his sword and his DF. Take away one or the other, and Law loses his fighting style. Doflamingo explicitly calls what Law does with his DF as "swordplay." If using a separate power through your sword means you're not a swordsman, then Zoro stopped being a swordsman when he started using Haki with his blades. Law's DF ability is just like Haki on a sword: It's a power that enhances your swordplay. Same with Fujitora.



Then you're not a swordsman in the One Piece world because you're just dicking around with a sword. We've seen that in the world of OP, being a swordsman is more than just a fighting style, it's a state of mind almost akin to a culture. No swordsman is so much stronger at another field that switching from one to the other turns the tides entirely.
We don't know that to be a fact since we don't know the limits of OP powers and I'll leave it at that.
 

HashiraMadara

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We don't know that to be a fact since we don't know the limits of OP powers and I'll leave it at that.
lol That needs no confirmation. If you are not X% a swordsman such than x > other fighting skill sets you have then you are not a swordsman simple! If you have something that can turn the battle tide and it has nothing to do with your sword then you are a man with a sword not a swordsman! So if Shanks is a sworsman then by default he falls below Mihawk, if He turns out to be > Mihawk still using his sword then Oda is high AF OR if he turns out to be > Mihawk using a complete sword unrelated skill then he was never a swordsman to begin with!
 
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Skull Knight

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Law's fighting style does not revolve around his sword it revolves around his df. Hes uses a sword as a means that is all it is used for. Unless you believe law needs his sword to use his fruit if so then we have nothing else to discuss
I agree with you. Even Cavendish is seen as Swordsman but the only reason he was so overpowered was because of Hakuba form and the speed he gains from that. Hakuba basically cleared the Colosseum fight. Give him a gun and we can see the same result.

There are other guys who uses swords like Drake and Jack but they also use DF power which got nothing to do with swordplay.
 

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Shanks is a swordsman, but he's not a pure swordsman.
Kaku shits all over this crap argument. He was a swordsman, DF user, assassin, and Martial Artist. All on par with each other.

Show one person in OP who was called a swordsman and had another fighting style that was greater than their swordsmanship.

As HashiMadara said, show Shanks showing anything other than swordsmanship.

Speculation and things you made up aren't canon facts, Daniel.
 

Skull Knight

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What is a Swordsman in One Piece? Law and Fujitaro were classified swordsmen by Oda, from that leaving me having million questions about the endless Shanks debates...

This quote from reddit got me semi confirming what I have been suspecting all along
"I feel like the only reason why people put restrictions on being the worlds greatest swordsman is because they don't wanna entertain the possibility that Mihawk could be stronger than Shanks and Fujitora."
Does anything really indicate that Mihawk is actually stronger than Fujitora and Shanks???
His title doesn't put him above Fuji or Shanks as they may have other thing in their arsenal other than swordplay like DF and Conqueror Haki.

We have already seen plenty of characters who uses swords and switch back to their other abilities(DF, strength etc) like BM. It will be foolishness to believe that Shanks would have nothing in his sleeves to clash with Mihawk. And let's not forget Shanks was ready to fight with Mihawk when he came with Luffy's poster(if I m not wrong).
 

HashiraMadara

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Does anything really indicate that Mihawk is actually stronger than Fujitora and Shanks???
His title doesn't put him above Fuji or Shanks as they may have other thing in their arsenal other than swordplay like DF and Conqueror Haki.

We have already seen plenty of characters who uses swords and switch back to their other abilities(DF, strength etc) like BM. It will be foolishness to believe that Shanks would have nothing in his sleeves to clash with Mihawk. And let's not forget Shanks was ready to fight with Mihawk when he came with Luffy's poster(if I m not wrong).

This is like arguing against Roger being a pirate king when author straight told he was one. "Shiki lived a more lavish life with a huge army that could potentially wipe out Roger pirates and Newgate crew seems the strongest with so many allies etc etc". I don't care how Shiki and Newgate are portrayed, author told me Roger was the pirate king, in this case Fuji and Shanks portrayal, the author continues to point at Mihawk as the WSS nothing more or less.
 
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