Was Tobirama a curse upon the shinobi world?

[Mori Jin]

Nice fanfic.

That's your opinion

 

[Avani 🥉]

Really Ira? The manga stated the UCHIHA WANTED PEACE!

Tobirama ruined everything. How is what I said was biased, when it's in the manga?

:lol[/SI ZE]

Everyone did. So? Tobirama was already dead when things went south for good. Danzou, Fugaku, Hiruzen, Madara- everyone is responsible for their own actions. They were no kids and should have been able to find solutions if they were not wrapped up in their own way of thinking.

You bash characters you don't like, like crazy. So the word hater fits you well enough anywhere. Your advice was contradictory to your own actions.
PS: Those large fonts are unnecessary.

 

[Mori Jin]

Really Ira? The manga stated the UCHIHA WANTED PEACE!

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>Tobirama kicked them to the outskirts of the village

>Rejected their governmental rights as Co-Founders

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>Spread malicious rumors about them to others.

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Tobirama ruined everything. How is what I said was biased, when it's in the manga?

:lol

Nice of you to post Obito talking (read manipulating) to Sasuke about the "truth", like he wasn't lying through his teeth.

 

[JStar King]

The Uchiha were similar to blacks between the late 1800s-1960s.

Faced nonstop discrimination, hated for being who they were, countless killed.

The only difference between them was the genocide and that the Uchiha actually got fed up dealing with the Village's bullsh*t.

Smh.

 

[Avani 🥉]

The Uchiha were similar to blacks between the late 1800s-1960s.

Faced nonstop discrimination, hated for being who they were, countless killed.

The only difference between them was the genocide and that the Uchiha actually got fed up dealing with the Village's bullsh*t.

Smh.

[/SI ZE]

Here lies the issue that blinds you. This right here is a " stock response" i.e. a habitual or automatic response based on the reader's beliefs or feelings, rather than on the work itself.

 

[Brady]

Nice of you to post Obito talking (read manipulating) to Sasuke about the "truth", like he wasn't lying through his teeth.

Obito told the truth, the only lie he told was acting like he wasn't involved in the Kyuubi attack. The Uchiha planned the coup in response to their treatment, it wasn't just a hurt ego or a thirst for power.

 

[Avani 🥉]

Obito told the truth, the only lie he told was acting like he wasn't involved in the Kyuubi attack. The Uchiha planned the coup in response to their treatment, it wasn't just a hurt ego or a thirst for power.

He told Sasuke he was Madara. Was that true? He talked about Izuna as if he was his brother-was that true? No, that's playing to the audience and manipulating them.

He told him wrong version about how Izuna died. He maybe partly deceived himself as he was brainwashed by Madara and may not have know the circumstances but either way his story was not reliable either.

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

I am glad we had someone like Tobirama.

 

[Mori Jin]

Obito told the truth, the only lie he told was acting like he wasn't involved in the Kyuubi attack. The Uchiha planned the coup in response to their treatment, it wasn't just a hurt ego or a thirst for power.

What truth? From whom? Madara? Who was manipulating him? Or black Zetsu? He was manipulating Sasuke whilst also lying to him. Half if not all that stuff he said he didnt even know about.

 

[Brady]

What truth? From whom? Madara? Who was manipulating him? Or black Zetsu? He was manipulating Sasuke whilst also lying to him. Half if not all that stuff he said he didnt even know about.

It doesn't change the fact that these things did happen in the story.

 

[salamander uchiha]

What Hokage selection. Hashirama, Tobirama had no competition. Third was challenged by Danzou and defeated when he became one. and Uchiha's rebelled in his times and died.

If Fugaku rebelled just because he didn't like Minato being nominated then he could challenge Minato just like Danzou. or wait and see. But starting a civil war over it would ruin the village and his own chances of becoming anything but a mercenary for rest of his life along with his clan. Kushina seemed to be friendly with Sasuke's mom. You are suggesting Sasuke's mom probably didn't return the feeling and resented her position.

Besides Minato was encouraging Obito to become hokage and he had a fair chance if things didn't go south. The very fact that Obito wanted to be a hokage and no one told him he couldn't says it was not that much of a policy. Unless you think Minato was the kind to make one like that. It would be out of character for Minato.

So how it doesn't makes one question the novel?

Hashirama was selected because of Tobirama orchestrating a vote saying others must decide.
Tobirama was promoted by Hashirama and dint get his one by vote.
Tobirama nominated Hiruzen Danzo didn't challenge him for the leadership inside him he coveted it.
Minato was appointed by the 3rd who had fallen out with Orochimaru. And the Uchiha were pissed off because Fugaku had equal achievements in the war but wasn't nominated. Konoha chose to bury Fugaku's and propogate Minato's. The Uchiha saw this as discrimination. Fugaku calmed them down because he didn't want to cause trouble. The Uchiha were stopped from helping in stopping the 9 tails by Konoha's higher ups and forced to help with evac. Fugaku wanted to stop the 9 tails that annoyed the Uchiha because they saw the elders feared they may take control of the 9 tails.
They were even more aggravated once they became isolated and moved into a singular place. Tensions had reached boiling point.
Fugaku didn't hate the village or the people he loved it and tried to avoid the coup until he was left with no choice. That is what the novels address because konoha a village he lord had become unreasonable.
We know konoha wouldn't let the Uchiha just up and leave with their abilities so he did what was necessary.
Also Minato and Fugaku didn't really have issues, neither did he hAve issues with kushina. They weren't the government of the village it was the elders the will of Tobirama senju.
The words of Tobirama in the manga:

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An Uchiha no wonder your with the enemy a very favourable view and opinion of the uchiha if you ask me.
Yet you expect us to believe this same Tobirama trusted the Uchiha and was good and kind to them.

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Again how Tobirama viewed the Uchiha and called it their cursed destiny.

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Tobirama and Orochimaru confirming the isolationist policies of his from the very beginning. Hashirama telling him I told you not to persecure the Uchiha. It's obvious Tobirama started the polices against the Uchiha. And they've been their since his time.

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Tobirama again undermining Hashirama because of the Uchiha.

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Tobirama confirming they'd use democracy but where was it when he was selected or Hiruzen or Minato.

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Here the Uchiha still want to live in the village after Madara tells them to leave even though Tobirama is their enemy.
Tobirama confirms he didn't trust the uchiha in a scan further up and made them into KMP.

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Here Hashirama confirms the village created the problem and not the Uchiha. That Hashirama created it(by lselecting Tobirama).

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Here the 3rd confirming he let Danzo run wild.

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Here Minato confirming the context that the Uchiha coup wasn't just because of the 9 tails. That was more the straw that broke the camels back.

So the mistrust of the Uchiha existed from the beginning it wasn't Obito who made that story up. And Tobirama did those thing he passed them onto Danzo who eventually alongside Hiruzen orchestrated the massacre of the Uchiha. Had the leaf been more trusting and not followed Tobirama's policies this wouldn't have happend.

As for Minato he was trained by Jiraiya who didn't give 2 shits about the will of Tobirama. He was different and Minato was different but Minato wouldn't be able to nominate Obito even if he wanted to since the council (Tobirama's posy) nominates the candidates.

As for Kishi if he confirms the novels are canon he's not dependant on justifying that to you. The novels will only explain the context the manga should be understood in.

Anyway I'm done on this topic.

 

[Mori Jin]

It doesn't change the fact that these things did happen in the story.

It doesn't change the fact that you didn't answer my question.

 

[Avani 🥉]

Hashirama was selected because of Tobirama orchestrating a vote saying others must decide.

So? Tobirama was the one to come up with the idea of a village to beging with. Hashirama sold that idea to Madara. But Tobirama was right beside him making it happen. I don't see why Hashirama was not better qualified seeing Uchihas were not the one uniting everyone out there but last to join.

Tobirama was able to become one because he had earned it too. Hiruzen became one on spot because village needed a leader and Tobirama chose to sacrifice himself and let his team escape. Mind that he didn't ask Kagami to be a bait while he escaped.

We know Tobirama wasn't a fan of Uchihas - Izuna was against peace treaty and Madara had asked for his head. Not very friendly approach I would say. He was prejudice but not with malice. He trusted Kagami.

Likes of Kagami, Shisui and Itachi may have been able to pull other Uchihas in mainstream but for Danzou and Tobi. Minato didn't seem to carry any grudge against Uchihas. Jiraiya too is just not the kind. So the bitterness between early generations could have been subsided with time.

But all that aside not all your links are that useful. e.g.- Minato saying if he was alive he could have stopped- hell yeah- if he was alive Uchihas wouldn't have been suspected of having a hand in his death. Duh..

But how it does it make Tobirama responsible for the mess created by Tobi and Danzou or Hiruzen in part? Sure Tobirama was responsible for his prejudices but how can you give a clean chit to these other people and blame it all on the guy who had died decades earlier than the massacre?

Tobirama was promoted by Hashirama and dint get his one by vote.....
Anyway I'm done on this topic.

If you didn't notice it's not a democracy but feudal set up. However Tobirama had earned enough clout due to his role in establishing the village alongside Hashi, despite his weaknesses. If Fugaku was a better candidate than Minato then Hiruzen was wrong. But that decision is on Hiruzen not the previous Hokage.

Good night. It's too late for me too.

 

[salamander uchiha]

I see you ignored the scans I provided and added your own version to the mix.
Anyway I'm done with this topic. Tobirama is at fault deal with it.

 

[Avani 🥉]

I see you ignored the scans I provided and added your own version to the mix.
Anyway I'm done with this topic. Tobirama is at fault deal with it.

lol Scans didn't provide any new information we didn't know already and you constantly neglect to reply my questions and points. Writing a wall helps only when there is something that's not been covered already. Why should I buy your version when I have a different view on the same scans. Deal with it.

 

[salamander uchiha]

lol Scans didn't provide any new information we didn't know already and you constantly neglect to reply my questions and points. Writing a wall helps only when there is something that's not been covered already. Why should I buy your version when I have a different view on the same scans. Deal with it.

The scans covered an innate hatred Tobirama had for the Uchiha and had discriminatory practises.
The scans confirm he wanted to be able to control the Uchiha. You don't try to control those who you view as equals or treat as equals.
The scans confirm he naturally viewed Uchiha as villains. He made them into KMP some Uchiha saw this as away to contain them and Tobirama justifies his actions by saying they were like Madara and he wasn't wrong. Hashirama confirms Madara couldn't convince his clan to leave but Tobirama's actions turned them towards Madara who was to blame.
The scans confirm Hashirama regrets his decisions which led to the Uchiha massacre(not killing Tobirama ).
The scans confirm that Minato acknowledges their was already some problem with the Uchiha which he may have been able to prevent the coup through other means. He certainly wasn't reffering to him dying because that wasn't the cause of the coup.
All the finger point back to Tobirama being the culprit and villain. The hypocrisy practised by Tobirama one rule for Hashirama another for him because he didn't want an Uchiha to come to power. It's really that simple you don't have to accept my version but it has mangafacts behind it. Your entitled to your view and that fine.

 

[Luminousi]

His opinion was a little too ridiculous I think. He thought it was literally impossible for the village to survive with the Uchiha. He kind of pushed them into the corner they ended up in.