Ultimate evidence that Byakugan > Sharingan

[davidou]

*Sigh* Please stop quoting me you idiot. At least not until you learn how to comprehend the English language.

Insults won' t make my point invalid.

 

[Made in Heaven]

No, it doesn't. The Byakugan is needed to target the Tenketsu only, and that's why she only used it after awakening Byakugan, because she can't target Naruto's Tenketsu without it even if she were to try and use the Gentle Fist. There's not a thing in this Manga that states, hints or implies that Hyuga can release chakra from their bodies because they possess the Byakugan. Ao doesn't possess Hyuga clan abilities either.

And yet Hinata showed absolute confusion over who did it as did Naruto when getting hit. If Himawari knew Jyuken before Byakugan, Hinata would have at least surmised a guess, but no, nothing. It's clear as day for someone not willing to jump through a million and one hoops just to downplay the Byakugan that the Jyuken of Himawari's was unlocked at that moment by getting Byakugan. Especially when she's a non-kunochi of three years old, so why the hell would she be trained at that age?

And yet you continue to fail to provide how the Hyuga release Chakra from all Chakra points being independant of Byakugan while still ignoring the high-tier CC given by the Byakugan, ignoring that Air Palm/Rotation/TLF are called BLOOD LINE LIMITS and not HIDEN techniques, ignoring 64 Palms being said to use the power of the Byakugan, and ignoring Himawari using Jyuken only after getting Byakugan.

Ao never fought though so I have no idea how that proves anything at all.

 

[Ababeel]

Just curious, but from where did those people who say "Tenketsu"/"Gentle fist" is not related to the Bykugan came up with that? :hmm:

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

Well ofc it is.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Just curious, but from where did those people who say "Tenketsu"/"Gentle fist" is not related to the Bykugan came up with that? :hmm:

It's a butthurt attempt to say the Byakugan doesn't have offensive abilities despite Jyuken techniques being called Bloodline limits instead of Hiden, which clearly means they're genetic. And that's not even bringing up Himawari directly getting Jyuken by unlocking Byakugan, which they love to twist the interpretation of.

 

[KidGamer65]

And yet Hinata showed absolute confusion over who did it as did Naruto when getting hit. If Himawari knew Jyuken before Byakugan, Hinata would have at least surmised a guess, but no, nothing. It's clear as day for someone not willing to jump through a million and one hoops just to downplay the Byakugan that the Jyuken of Himawari's was unlocked at that moment by getting Byakugan. Especially when she's a non-kunochi of three years old, so why the hell would she be trained at that age?

And yet you continue to fail to provide how the Hyuga release Chakra from all Chakra points being independant of Byakugan while still ignoring the high-tier CC given by the Byakugan, ignoring that Air Palm/Rotation/TLF are called BLOOD LINE LIMITS and not HIDEN techniques, ignoring 64 Palms being said to use the power of the Byakugan, and ignoring Himawari using Jyuken only after getting Byakugan.

Ao never fought though so I have no idea how that proves anything at all.

Stop being daft. :lol No shit Hinata would be confused who did it because she didn't know that Himawari had the Byakugan. What the hell do you think this proves? Because to anyone who uses common sense it's pretty obvious that it proves nothing. The bold logic is utter trash. Her not saying out loud who she think did it doesn't mean she wasn't able to narrow it down to the only people who live in that house with her. Don't start going back to this bad logic to prove your point. Byakugan has never once been implied, stated, hinted or shown to unlock ANYTHING. We were blatantly told what the Byakugan does and until you can show me where that explanation says it unlocks any jutsu or techniques you will never have a point.

All that chakra control nonsense you were spouting on the other page is irrelevant. Air Palm, Rotation, TLF being listed as Kekkei Genkai is irrelevant. Are they granted by Byakugan? No. Stop crying about downplay my guy. Lmao you fanboys are always the first one to complain about downplay. No one ever said these techniques weren't related to the Byakugan nor did anyone say that these techniques didn't use the Byakugan's power. The eye itself does not grant these techniques thus the Hyuga need to learn these techniques to bolster their power. That is a fact so stop trying to argue against it and start arguing points relevant to the thread.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Stop being daft. :lol No shit Hinata would be confused who did it because she didn't know that Himawari had the Byakugan. What the hell do you think this proves? Because to anyone who uses common sense it's pretty obvious that it proves nothing. The bold logic is utter trash. Her not saying out loud who she think did it doesn't mean she wasn't able to narrow it down to the only people who live in that house with her. Don't start going back to this bad logic to prove your point. Byakugan has never once been implied, stated, hinted or shown to unlock ANYTHING. We were blatantly told what the Byakugan does and until you can show me where that explanation says it unlocks any jutsu or techniques you will never have a point.

All that chakra control nonsense you were spouting on the other page is irrelevant. Air Palm, Rotation, TLF being listed as Kekkei Genkai is irrelevant. Are they granted by Byakugan? No. Stop crying about downplay my guy. Lmao you fanboys are always the first one to complain about downplay. No one ever said these techniques weren't related to the Byakugan nor did anyone say that these techniques didn't use the Byakugan's power. The eye itself does not grant these techniques thus the Hyuga need to learn these techniques to bolster their power. That is a fact so stop trying to argue against it and start arguing points relevant to the thread.

Okay, that's all I wanted to hear. And I already said the abilities need to be learned, but they're still KKG and not Hiden, meaning they are genetic.

 

[Holy God]

It's still a canon fact, so no use arguing over it. Same way Yata Mirror's hype sounds asinine, but it's still fact.

It just says in that manga scan that it does though. Putting chakra into things made from will get destroyed and the Hyuugas can do that with the Jyuuken.

Neji's statement is correct, but you guys don't understand the context. Merely putting chakra into something doesn't destroy it. Sorry, but there are so many examples of that being incorrect that it's not even funny, and even Neji himself has countered it, where he injects chakra into Kidoumaru's thread, and it doesn't get destroyed.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[Made in Heaven]

Neji's statement is correct, but you guys don't understand the context. Merely putting chakra into something doesn't destroy it. Sorry, but there are so many examples of that being incorrect that it's not even funny, and even Neji himself has countered it, where he injects chakra into Kidoumaru's thread, and it doesn't get destroyed.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Obviously because Neji didn't intend to destroy the web. He was flowing Chakra through it to damage Kido's organs. This doesn't at all disprove the fact that Neji with his own tongue stated that Jyuken can destroy Chakra-made materials.

 

[Vulpini]

How did this thread reach more than 3 pages tbh. :lol

 

[Uchihauzamakibarrage]

How did this thread reach more than 3 pages tbh. :lol

Right. Someone tried to prove KG wrong, but ended up getting buried. Rip

 

[Holy God]

TLF databook entry.

No it doesn't. It says that delicate chakra control and the Byakugan are needed to use the technique, not that the Byakugan grants high level chakra control.

No, I meant in the same way MS isn't needed to use Susano'O, but it's still needed.

Also, why do you constantly ignore Air Palm/Vacuum Attack being Called Kekkai Genkais, meaning exclusive to GENES, rather than Hiden, secret techniques held within a clan? The distinction is so obvious.

Because I'm not ignoring it. Of course it would be labeled as a Bloodline Limit if it's description says it uses the Byakugan.

Chakra Scapel and Jyuken aren't the same.

I wasn't talking about the technique. I meant "chakra scapel" (which is why it was and is in quotes) as in chakra extending from the fingers, which is how Gentle Fist is used in combat, and is said to be possible for most Jonins.

I know, only by a Byakugan user though.

Course I won't. But that could very easily be nothing short of a Chakra Scapel to begin with. Just as how certain Wind Style tehnique's resemble Air Palm.

This is the same line of logic as saying an Earth and Water style expert can use Wood Style because they have the needed capabilities. There are abilities linked to KKG and Jyuken is that to Byakugan. Or you can equally chalk it up to plot. 8 Gates are Chakra Points, so what's stopping a Hyuga from using Jyuken to open them? Same reason Sasuke can't use Tsukyomi. Same reason Madara never used any other MS abilities. Same with Kaguya not using Lava/Wood/Boil styles. So many characters who can logically do one thing are hindered by plot. I mean, sure, you can argue Jyuken needs the Byakugan, but what's stopping Sakura, who has better CC than anyone else, from using a defense as powerful as Rotation? It's because Jyuken abilities NEED the Byakugan and can't be used without it.

It is outright stated to be Gentle Fist in that same image, no ifs, ands, or buts. You've now just essentially admitted any competent ninja can use that fighting style. Everything else about restrictions has no relevance because Gentle Fist is a fighting *style*, and anyone can imitate it. Wood Style *requires* genetics to merge Earth Style and Water Style. Expelling chakra to use against chakra structures, or the Gentle Fist, does not *require* a special eye.

Well, that doesn't change the fact that we see that Madara can't see the other Chakra points outside of the 8 Gates and the Chakra network, so it does prove the vision is no where on par with Byakugan.

It could just be because seeing the other pressure points would be superfluous, especially when the flames take up a lot of the space. Regardless, it doesn't take away from my point since he can still target the pressure points, albeit only seeing eight.

It does so with Kaguya, she was able to cast IT on the whole world. Same way how beefed up Chakra granted the alliance enhanced abilities, like stronger Air Palm and faster Mind Transfer or Kamui being able to transport larger objects.

Yes she did.

The whole backstory is messed up anyways, so it's best just to accept things as they are presented. And Kaguya very clearly must of used the IT without affecting her kids as Hagoromo knows about it, so it can really be just as simple as her not casting it on them . Besides, plenty of possibilities are there for why Hamura was unaffected. He's an alien/Rikudo user/Kaguya's son.

Stronger abilities, yes, since techniques are based upon how much chakra you have, but vision is not. Kaguya never casted Infinite Tsukuyomi on the world factually. The Japanese version plainly uses the subject in that sentence as "people", not every single one of them, so if it's best to accept it as presented, then do so. The entire reason why she merged with the Ten-Tails was because Hagoromo (and possibly Hamura) started to share chakra with people. If it was used on people, Hamura would have been affected. The only remedy is the Rinnegan, and he doesn't have it.

 

[Holy God]

Obviously because Neji didn't intend to destroy the web. He was flowing Chakra through it to damage Kido's organs. This doesn't at all disprove the fact that Neji with his own tongue stated that Jyuken can destroy Chakra-made materials.

Nope, you can't defend it. Neji said "simply putting chakra into". He did just that and nothing happened, regardless of his intentions. That is enough to prove you can't take it at face value. You don't just have chakra touch each other and one gets destroyed.

 

[davidou]

Nope, you can't defend it. Neji said "simply putting chakra into". He did just that and nothing happened, regardless of his intentions. That is enough to prove you can't take it at face value. You don't just have chakra touch each other and one gets destroyed.

Your reasonning seems to prove that Neji can alter the properties of his special chakra, destroying or infesting, he can chose.

 

[Holy God]

Your reasonning seems to prove that Neji can alter the properties of his special chakra, destroying or infesting, he can chose.

You can only come to that determination if you believe his chakra just destroys other peoples, which is what I was proving wrong, thus I cannot be reasoning such a thing. That's a hypothesis far away from what can be proven by any evidence.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Nope, you can't defend it. Neji said "simply putting chakra into". He did just that and nothing happened, regardless of his intentions. That is enough to prove you can't take it at face value. You don't just have chakra touch each other and one gets destroyed.

Gentle Fist itself has many applications. Damaging organs is called "Jyuken". Closing Chakra points is called "Jyuken". Flooding the string is called "Jyuken". Causing internal explosions within an opponents body is called "Jyuken". Neji was simply using another application of it in channeling Chakra through the thread to get to Kidomaru. This doesn't disprove that Jyuken can destroy Chakra substances.

No it doesn't. It says that delicate chakra control and the Byakugan are needed to use the technique, not that the Byakugan grants high level chakra control.

"Because it will fail at even the slightest mistake in chakra control, it is extremely difficult to learn this ability, which is a feat that requires the Byakugan."

Because I'm not ignoring it. Of course it would be labeled as a Bloodline Limit if it's description says it uses the Byakugan.

Air Palm/Rotation/64 Palms/Vacuum Attack are all labeled KKG and/or are said to use Byakugan's power.

It is outright stated to be Gentle Fist in that same image, no ifs, ands, or buts. You've now just essentially admitted any competent ninja can use that fighting style.

They can't. It's genetic. It doesn't matter if it logically "makes sense" for them to be able to do it. Because Jyuken techs are called KKG not Hiden. Like I said, there are plenty of other logical things that characters should be able to do in the series but can't for arbitrary reasons, and thats just how things are.

Everything else about restrictions has no relevance because Gentle Fist is a fighting *style*, and anyone can imitate it.Wood Style *requires* genetics to merge Earth Style and Water Style. Expelling chakra to use against chakra structures, or the Gentle Fist, does not *require* a special eye.

No they can't. Every single Gentle Fist technique is called a KKG, not a Hiden, meaning it is genetic, meaning it's related to bloodlines.

It could just be because seeing the other pressure points would be superfluous, especially when the flames take up a lot of the space. Regardless, it doesn't take away from my point since he can still target the pressure points, albeit only seeing eight.

So he can see 8 larger chakra points doesn't mean he can see the entire network and we saw his POV and he only could see the gates.

Stronger abilities, yes, since techniques are based upon how much chakra you have, but vision is not.

No, Kakashi even said that Rikudo Chakrs enhances ocular abilities/powers when getting Rikudo Chakra form Obito. so Madara's Rennigan would in fact be enhanced

 

[Holy God]

Gentle Fist itself has many applications. Damaging organs is called "Jyuken". Closing Chakra points is called "Jyuken". Flooding the string is called "Jyuken". Causing internal explosions within an opponents body is called "Jyuken". Neji was simply using another application of it in channeling Chakra through the thread to get to Kidomaru. This doesn't disprove that Jyuken can destroy Chakra substances.

I'm not saying Gentle Fist can't destroy chakra substances. You've mistake the context me and davidou were talking about, which isn't even about Gentle Fist itself. It's about the statement "Things made from chakra will be destroyed by simply putting chakra into it." Clearly it isn't that easy as I've already shown "simply putting chakra" into something will not destroy it, as he asked me "Why Hyuga' s chakra anihilates every other chakra?" The only time Gentle Fist has destroyed a chakra substance is through pure force, not mere contact.

"Because it will fail at even the slightest mistake in chakra control, it is extremely difficult to learn this ability, which is a feat that requires the Byakugan."

That translation is a bit broken. The actual text is divided into two sentences

You must be registered for see links

as you can see two periods.

The first talks about chakra control strictly.

You must be registered for see links

(chakra control = chakura kantorooru). It specifically says "The slightest mistake in chakra control will result in the failure of this technique."

The second sentence talks about the Byakugan, and starts with "緻密な技量と"白眼"".

You must be registered for see links

Before it, "緻密な技量" is referring to fine control (of chakra) and proceeding it, "白眼", means "Byakugan".

Air Palm/Rotation/64 Palms/Vacuum Attack are all labeled KKG and/or are said to use Byakugan's power.

No they can't. Every single Gentle Fist technique is called a KKG, not a Hiden, meaning it is genetic, meaning it's related to bloodlines.

Once again, they are all described as using the Byakugan to target the area of attack, so they'll be labeled as a Bloodline Limit. No problem there. Even

You must be registered for see links

is labeled as one because it utilizes the Sharingan, despite not requiring the Sharingan.

They can't. It's genetic. It doesn't matter if it logically "makes sense" for them to be able to do it. Because Jyuken techs are called KKG not Hiden. Like I said, there are plenty of other logical things that characters should be able to do in the series but can't for arbitrary reasons, and thats just how things are.

Stop avoiding the point. The Bloodline Limit argument is useless and has already been exposed. You've already said regular ninja can do it despite it being Gentle Fist.

So he can see 8 larger chakra points doesn't mean he can see the entire network and we saw his POV and he only could see the gates.

The gates aren't larger, there is just more chakra flowing through them. As I already said however, the point is that he can target them (even if only 8 as you suggest), allowing him to utilizing the Gentle Fist effectively.

No, Kakashi even said that Rikudo Chakrs enhances ocular abilities/powers when getting Rikudo Chakra form Obito. so Madara's Rennigan would in fact be enhanced

I already said techniques are empowered because they are dependent on chakra, this includes eye techniques. The vision of their eyes is not dependent on chakra and this topic has never once been expanded upon in the story.

 

[davidou]

You can only come to that determination if you believe his chakra just destroys other peoples, which is what I was proving wrong, thus I cannot be reasoning such a thing. That's a hypothesis far away from what can be proven by any evidence.

You are right, I can' t prove it, but I tend to believe Neji when he says that, he knows what he is talking about.
I'm more sceptical with BZ claims about Yata/Totsuka for exemple, he is a compulsive liar, he doesn' t know what he is talking about and he is just repeating what someone told him.

Kaguya's eighty god vacuum palm may be the first time we saw a byakugan user really try to destroy chakra made substances.Have you got scans that show a Hyuga not using the destruction ability although he will die if he doesn't?

 

[Holy God]

You are right, I can' t prove it, but I tend to believe Neji when he says that, he knows what he is talking about.
I'm more sceptical with BZ claims about Yata/Totsuka for exemple, he is a compulsive liar, he doesn' t know what he is talking about and he is just repeating what someone told him.

Kaguya's eighty god vacuum palm may be the first time we saw a byakugan user really try to destroy chakra made substances.Have you got scans that show a Hyuga not using the destruction ability although he will die if he doesn't?

I'm not completely sure what you're asking for. Some time where Gentle Fist is used without the intention to destroy chakra like how you're talking about? The only thing that comes to mind, besides Neji against Kidoumaru, is Hinata with Naruto.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[davidou]

I'm not completely sure what you're asking for. Some time where Gentle Fist is used without the intention to destroy chakra like how you're talking about? The only thing that comes to mind, besides Neji against Kidoumaru, is Hinata with Naruto.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

I'm asking for a scan that proves that Hyuga can' t destroy chakra.I can' t prove you are wrong, but I would be glad if you could prove me you are right.
In the scan you posted, Hinata probably used the gentle fist taijutsu, not the gentle fist ninjutsu.