[Theory] UCHIHA MADARA BREAKDOWN by Omningan

[Omningan]

Hi Guys,

This is a continuation of my post in the 517 Predictions thread about Madara. Wanted to continue my thoughts and give everyone else a chance to read it as well.


Re: Naruto Manga Chapter 516 Discussion and 517 Predictions

My turn! My turn!
Here is some stuff I put together.
I wanted to do more, but just this research and posting took me hours.
I gotta get some sleep...more later.

Madara's Powers:
- Time Space Ninjutsu
- Sharingan
- Rinnengan
- Izanagi

1.) He can make himself invulnerable to any form of attack.

a.) He evades Raikage's Punch

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b.) Naruto tries to blast him, and goes right through him instead.

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c.) Here Sasuke cuts him in half, and he gets up, apparently unhurt.

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d.) Here Kakashi is going to use MS against Madara, and Madara tells him not to waste his energy, because it will have no effect.

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e.) Here he is escaping Shino's bugs and completely blowing the minds of the Konoha peeps.

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f.) Here is is nuked by Ameratsu and then seems fine a few pages later.

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g.) Here he dodges some attacks from Danzo's bodyguards.

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2.) He can warp himself and or others to a location of his choice with our without their permission.

a.) During the Kage Summit, he saves Sasuke from Tsuchikage's Dust Tech.
And warps Karin to him, to heal him, while he talks to the 5 Kages.

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b.) He warps to Sasuke's aid when Zetsu warns him about Sasuke being in trouble.

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c.) He tries to warp the 4th Hokage, but Minato is too fast and escapes.

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d.) He warps himself and Konan away, along with a nice portion of the suicide bombs she was carrying with her.

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e.) Here he shows up at the end of the Itachi-Sasuke fight, and Zetsu accuses Madara of traveling at the speed of light.

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f.) One of Danzo's henchmen down.

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The other quickly follows.

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I'd like to note that you never see them again... LOL.
Where did he take them? I think I know. We'll save that for later.

3.) He has the power of the Sharingan and we know that he dominated the Kyuubi for a short period of time.

a.) Here we see Madara summon the fox into Konoha after releasing it from Kushina's control.

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b.) Here we see the power of the sharingan eye wear off the Kyuubi after Minato owns Madara.

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c.) Here Kabuto and Madara agree to use the Sharingan instead of the Rinnengan to get the answers they need from Yamato.

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d.) Here we see him viewing one of Danzo's henchmen with his Sharingan.

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4.) He now has the Rinnengan and all powers that come with it.
At least to some extent. All that is confirmed FOR SURE is the human realm. But I think its safe to assume he can do any of the realms.

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(human realm)

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(animal realm)

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(gedo realm)

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(god realm)

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(hungry ghost realm)

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(demon realm)

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(hell realm)

5.) Izanagi. By combining the powers of the senju and uchiha, Madara can transform his illusion into reality.

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MADARA'S PLAN

1.) The Moon's Eye Plan. (The Infinite Tsukuyomi)

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He has come right out and told the five kage's that this is his plan.
I do not doubt that he is telling the truth. He would gain nothing from lying to them. Not only that, but it seems to fit in with what we have learned. Tsuchikage asks him why he doesn't just use his own powers to achieve his goals, why employ Sasuke? He admits that he has no power himself, but that he has the Bijuu's he has collected, and will use them forcefully if necessary.

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"I'm not a fool to say a thing like this in jest!"

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Proof that he is telling the truth while speaking to them.
He admits to the Raikage that Akatsuki failed to capture the Hachibi.

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Madara also states here that Bee has achieved true perfection as a Jinchuuriki. This is interesting because we see that Naruto has gained a level of power that not even Bee has, which I will get to later.

2.) Becoming the Jinchuuriki of the Juubi.

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Here Madara explains that he will combine all the Bijuus and restore the Juubi and then become its host so that he may implement the Moon's Eye Plan, and control the world.
We learn from Madara that the Rikudou Sage fought the Juubi, and defeated it using a sealing technique that he invented to become the Juubi's Host and the very first Jinchuuriki. He goes on to add that all the tailed bijuus are nothing more than pieces of the Juubi that were split apart at the Rikudou Sage's will upon his death. At the same time, once the chakra was seperated from it's body the Juubi's body was contained/became the moon so that it was too far from it's chakra's(bijuus) to be revived. "The fused form of all the Bijuu"

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Here he explains to Konan as she is dying that with Yin-Yang element, the Rikudou Sage created the beasts from the Juubi, which matches what he told the Kages.

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He obviously intends to use the Heretical Demon Statue (Gedo Mazo) to do this. Akatsuki has been transferring the bijuus into the Gedo Mazo which may or may not be a shell/form of the Juubi itself. It has many similarities and seems to be a fitting container for the bijuus.

3.) Heretical Demon Statue (GEDO MAZO)
There is no doubt that the Heretical Demon Statue is the Gedo Mazo summon that Nagato summoned during his fight against Hanzo, when Yahiko dies.
Here are some images to reference:

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You'll notice the rods coming from its stomach. It is what pierced Nagato when he summoned it. It is also what seems to lead down into Madara's lair to where the Zetsu's were being kept. Hashirama's DNA and now Yamato have both been fused in with the Demon Statue.
Gedo might mean "being outside of and controlling Life and Death".
Mazo might mean "a combining form"
Nagato was Gedo, the 7th Pain according to Konan.

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From this I assume that Gedo Mazo is a "living-dead" "form" of the Juubi used to "combine" all of the Bijuu and restore the Juubi to it's original form.

It seems he fully plans on doing exactly like he said.
Now all he has to do it defeat Bee and Naruto.
I'll try to post on what I think will happen in regards to that part, tomorrow. Man, I sure am excited for this week's chapter.

A couple things I ran into while researching....

Kankuro uses his jutsu to remove the Zetsu's from some of the ninja there at the Kage summit. VERY INTERESTING!

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I posted on Tobi being Madara a while back and made some good references. I thought this was another good page to that effect.

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Here is another for all you "Tobi isn't Madara" peeps out there.

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Let's do a little background for Madara...and finish up this thought.

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Here is proof that Madara is not a son of the Sage of the 6 Paths.
Just in case anyone is thinking that he is.
Madara's brother was also an Uchiha. Which means his brother is NOT a Senju. The sons of the SO6P were one Uchiha (elder) and one Senju (younger). The cycle of hatred starts here for the Uchiha when the SO6P chooses the younger Senju son to be the next leader.

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Here is Madara telling Kakashi and Naruto the story of how the Uchiha Curse of Hatred began with the Sage of the 6 Paths and his two sons. He goes on to say that this curse applies to him as much as to Sasuke and that his own fight with Hashirama was fate.

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Here he tells Naruto that even though this is only the second time he has met Naruto he knows that Naruto is Senju...good to know.
And also that Naruto and Sasuke have been fated to clash as well.

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Here we get a glimpse of both Madara, and his brothers Mangekou Sharingan eyes.

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Here you can see the combined form of Madara's eyes after he takes his brothers eyes and forms the EMS. It is clearly different than it was before, and it is also clearly changed to be a mix of both. Madara's look similar to his before, but now it has the lines going to the edge of the eyes that was the obvious trait of his younger brother's eyes.
By this we can assume that Sasuke's eyes will also look different now that he has transplanted Itachi's.

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Here, Itachi explains that the transplant gave birth to an entirely new eye power. He doesn't specify if that new power is a new eye (rinnengan) or if its a new eye power (time space). I believe it to be the later, however I wouldn't be surprised with either explanation. Here we can assume that Sasuke will also develop a new doujutsu because of his transplant with Itachi's eyes...will we Sasuke with a new sharingan, the rinnengan, or even a new totally unknown doujutsu?

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Here we see Sasuke show his Mangekou Sharingan in both eyes.
There is some heavy shading in this frame, look at the next page to see a clearer frame shot of one of the eyes.

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Here we see Itachi clearly shows his double Mangekou Sharingan.

Will we see a combined form of both MS in Sasuke's new EMS?
What will it be Kishi?

To get back on track with Madara's plan...

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This is a great page for Madara info.
It says that Madara's unstoppable power led him to be hailed as the strongest shinobi alive and that he formed an alliance with the Senju that formed the ninja world as we knowit, Leaf. Itachi finishes by saying that he wasn't able to defeat Hasirama in the fight for control but that he is "alive and well" as are his eyes "and their power"
This leads me to believe that although something may be wrong with Madara's as he has told the Kage's (not his whole self), but that he is still ALIVE and so are his eye powers.

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Here we learn some truth about Madara and the Sharingan from Itachi.
More to it than being able to control the Kyuubi...EMS.

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With EMS, Itachi says that any limits, any ideas of capacity will be gone.
"You and I are each other's spares."

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Here Madara explains to Naruto and Kakashi that even though Sasuke knows the truth now about Itachi and everything, he still wants revenge. Naruto accuses Madara of having done it to him. Madara replies, "no, I didnt" "he chose it himself" "i took a gamble not knowing" "he chose revenge" "in his heart he was always 'one of us'."

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"Naruto, someday you will have to fight Sasuke."
"Or, rather, I will make you fight Sasuke"
"This fated battle has been long in coming"

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Long before Madara tells Konan that he formed Akatsuki, not Yahiko.
Itachi gives Madara credit for it, but then starts bad mouthing Madara.
"Madara is a pathetic form of his former self"
"He's no longer worthy of being considered the greatest Uchiha"
"The only person who can surpass him, surpass the invincible Madara and achieve true immortality is me."
This is Itachi telling Sasuke what he wants Sasuke to believe.
NOT what Itachi really believes...I don't think Itachi wanted to kill his brother and obtain Sasuke's eyes to try and challenge Madara. I think that if that had been his wish, he could have and would have done so.
Since it is obvious that Itachi let Sasuke win, it is equally apparent that Itachi wants Sasuke to feel this way about Madara. Itachi is setting his brother up as the man that can defeat Madara once and for all. Go Itachi! Will it work?

So knowing that Madara will try to use Sasuke against Naruto, as I am sure Madara tried to use Itachi; Itachi is setting up Sasuke against Madara. Using the last few precious moments he has with his brother to build him up against Madara. I believe Madara probably tried to use Itachi to fight Naruto and gain the Kyuubi. He obviously doesn't want to/ or can't/couldn't do it by himself.

However, if he can use Sasuke to gain the power of the Kyuubi and Hachibi, he will be able to restore the power of the Juubi, and then wants to control it to become the most powerful being on the planet and then control the world. This is the path of Uchiha Madara. Who can/will stop him? Only Kishi knows for certain. I can hardly wait for this portion of the story to unfold.

Thanks for reading my posts.
I look forward to your thoughts.
If you really like this breakdown, let me know and i will do another for a different character.

Also...remembered a theory I have about Madara's time-space jutsu.
When he warps himself and or others away during a battle...
I think he is using warping them into a sealed room with 1000+ Zetsus...
"Welcome to Death Row!" or "Welcome to the Hospital"
He could just take them there, and then leave to go back to whatever he was doing.
Confident that the Zetsus would finish the job and kill/record/copy whoever he brings to them.
On the other hand he could warp there, and have the Zetsu's give him more chakra, heal him, replace limbs, cancel a raging case of Ameratsu... ya know, whatever. Its so genius it makes me want to cry. Not sure that's what is happening, but it makes a sick sense.

 

[nagato2]

your pretty good. how long did it take for to write this

 

[sasuke721]

wow, that is a very in depth analysis of madara and very impressive. you seem to really know a lot about madara and his plans. There was something I noticed a while back and was hoping maybe you would be able to shed some light on this:

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This shows that he has been collecting many sets of eyes, most likely sharingan. The one thing that was odd was the top right panel. It appears to be a single mangekyou sharingan. My thought was that it may be madara's second ems. He may just keep it out so that he can continue to put spares into his left eye in case he needs to use izanagi. This way he can use it, but never waste one of his ems eyes. I personally have not done as much research into this as you have so I was wondering what your thoughts were on this.

 

[Omningan]

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
I hadn't noticed it.
IMO: That looks like Itachi's MS.
I think it is showing one Sharingan that we would recognize, in a wall of many many others that we wouldn't recognize. This would be the right time-frame. After Sasuke kills Itachi, but before he agrees to have Itachi's eyes implanted. Kishi was obviously trying to tell us that Madara was holding onto them for Sasuke's use.
Madara is defintely collecting Sharingans, and he is definitely using other Sharingans for Izangi and then probably replacing them with another after he's done using one.
I would think the one Sharingan that he still currently has along with his new addition of Rinnengan is his EMS. What happened to the other EMS? Maybe he still has it, maybe he doesn't. Not sure it matters at this point. He is fully loaded now with one of each type. Thanks for the nice comment.

 

[khairuto]

wow...nice man..like it..hope u do it with another character

 

[sasuke721]

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
I hadn't noticed it.
IMO: That looks like Itachi's MS.
I think it is showing one Sharingan that we would recognize, in a wall of many many others that we wouldn't recognize. This would be the right time-frame. After Sasuke kills Itachi, but before he agrees to have Itachi's eyes implanted. Kishi was obviously trying to tell us that Madara was holding onto them for Sasuke's use.
Madara is defintely collecting Sharingans, and he is definitely using other Sharingans for Izangi and then probably replacing them with another after he's done using one.
I would think the one Sharingan that he still currently has along with his new addition of Rinnengan is his EMS. What happened to the other EMS? Maybe he still has it, maybe he doesn't. Not sure it matters at this point. He is fully loaded now with one of each type. Thanks for the nice comment.

Well I just re-viewed that image as well as a couple of others.

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Between all of these it is possible to get a good view of all of the different mangekyou sharingan's that have been used. I just zoomed in as far as possible on that image that I mentioned in my previous post and compared it to these other images. When zoomed in it almost looks similar to kakashi's due to the fact that each of the tomoe are connected to one another. In which case it might actually be obito's second sharingan. But like you said it probably doesn't particularly matter at this point. I am most likely just over thinking and over speculating over this one picture.


Side note:
It seemed like you had started to mention a stuff about zetsu. If you do a large breakdown of zetsu that would also be helpful.

 

[femmyscored]

Thanks, but one thing i really don't get about madara's ability to use the rinnegan is how he will be able to use all the paths with only one eye.One thing i do know is that a new powerful dougutsu will be formed when the sharingan and rinnegan are combined.

 

[OopsWrongHole]

You really did spend some time doing this post, I have a question, You clearly shown Madara is not the son of the Sage of the Six Paths but what if Uchiha Madara was the son of the elder son? Would that explain Madara 'special' Chakra?

 

[-The Agent-]

Nice thread. A lot of info and links. My question is How come we have not seen "Madara's" EMS?

 

[Floydical]

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Here, Itachi explains that the transplant gave birth to an entirely new eye power. He doesn't specify if that new power is a new eye (rinnengan) or if its a new eye power (time space). I believe it to be the later, however I wouldn't be surprised with either explanation. Here we can assume that Sasuke will also develop a new doujutsu because of his transplant with Itachi's eyes...will we Sasuke with a new sharingan, the rinnengan, or even a new totally unknown doujutsu?

Quite interesting theory. I forget what my original impression was in regard to this entirely new doujutsu, but I think I assumed it referred to a combination of his and his brother's MS powers. I always thought that the extent of the EMS was eternal light and the full ability to use both your original MS powers and all those that the other MS user had at his disposal. Obviously if this were the full extent, than Sasuke would get the short end of the stick since his MS abilities were exactly the same as Itachi's but with a slightly different Susanoo. Since we have seen very little of Sasuke in a while, I think that you are right. This new doujutsu has to be something completely independent. I can't honestly believe that Sasuke now has time/space ninjutsu but I think that theory of yours is as good as any.

Btw, very well done post.

 

[hlompho]

nice, this shed a lot of light on many things, thanks, nd cnt wait for ur nxt thread!!

 

[Howard]

Damn you just said a "Raging case of Ameratsu" like it was Herpes.... LOL
Btw you did a great job on the character analysis

 

[Perkele311]

Well I just re-viewed that image as well as a couple of others.

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Between all of these it is possible to get a good view of all of the different mangekyou sharingan's that have been used. I just zoomed in as far as possible on that image that I mentioned in my previous post and compared it to these other images. When zoomed in it almost looks similar to kakashi's due to the fact that each of the tomoe are connected to one another. In which case it might actually be obito's second sharingan. But like you said it probably doesn't particularly matter at this point. I am most likely just over thinking and over speculating over this one picture.


Side note:
It seemed like you had started to mention a stuff about zetsu. If you do a large breakdown of zetsu that would also be helpful.

Did you seriously mention Obito? :flaw:

His sharingan got squished by a huge rock. It no longer exists. Kakashi has the only one that wouldn't have been crushed.

 

[Omningan]

You really did spend some time doing this post, I have a question, You clearly shown Madara is not the son of the Sage of the Six Paths but what if Uchiha Madara was the son of the elder son? Would that explain Madara 'special' Chakra?

I think it is possible that Madara was the son of the elder brother.
However, you would think that if the SO6P was really that recent, then he wouldn't be disputed so much as "just a legend".
I'd imagine that there are many many generations between the SO6P and Uchiha Madara. Maybe 5-10+ generations at least?

But, what I really wondered after reading your comment, is what is this "SPECIAL" chakra that you are referring to? I wasn't aware of any special chakra of Madara's. Please explain?

 

[GaaratheFifth]

Wow, some really good research here.

I have finally come around to believing that Tobi is Madara, just because no other character would be a meaningful surprise. I was kind of hoping Tobi would be Sasuke, from the future, but I don't think that's really possible.

So, now I have a few questions for further thought:
Do we know what has happened to Sasuke's eyes now that he has Itachi's? Any predictions? I doubt Madara would let them go to waste. Maybe he will outfit some of the Zetsu's with those and the other stolen eyes?

Why do you find it so interesting that Kankuro could remove that Zetsu with his chakra strings?

And finally, why do you think he is warping to the room with the Zetsu's?

 

[Omningan]

Wow, some really good research here.

I have finally come around to believing that Tobi is Madara, just because no other character would be a meaningful surprise. I was kind of hoping Tobi would be Sasuke, from the future, but I don't think that's really possible.

So, now I have a few questions for further thought:
Do we know what has happened to Sasuke's eyes now that he has Itachi's? Any predictions? I doubt Madara would let them go to waste. Maybe he will outfit some of the Zetsu's with those and the other stolen eyes?

Why do you find it so interesting that Kankuro could remove that Zetsu with his chakra strings?

And finally, why do you think he is warping to the room with the Zetsu's?

thanks.

i have no clue what he would do with sasuke's eyes.
maybe just save them for backup if sasuke loses itachis for some reason.
maybe just burn them up as izanagi like other sharingans.
not sure. though I feel pretty confident that its not JUST the eye itself, for an Uchiha. for someone like danzo and kakashi, the eye brings the sharingan. but to an uchiha, they steadily UPGRADE the eye they have.
like the eye being IN THEM, becomes more powerful, and them along with it, not the other way around. the eye doesnt empower the ninja. the eye is just a tool, and like every other tool it is the user that makes it special. nice thought though, i figure sasuke's old eyes are a moot point now.

i think he is warping to the zetsu's because if they have the ability to copy any ninja that they've met, then they have unlimited powers in mass. we know there are 1000's of them. what is more intense than that? scenario for instance: he warps danzou's bodyguards into a room with 1000+ zetsus, and warps back to deal with danzou. he doesnt even even have to deal with them. just like passing them off to his boys to let zetsu record and annihilate them. its diabolically awesome. what else would he do with them? you think they just cease to exist? comon, get creative. if he warps them away, and we never see them again... you must ask yourself... where the hell did he take them, and what the hell happened to them after they got there? i thought it was the most powerful answer to that question.

and as far as kankuro's chakra strings pulling the zetsu's spores off of people in that kage meeting shows that he has the ability to liberate people from things infecting them. so what if he can use chakra strings jutsu to pull the edo tensei'd souls off their victims. what if kankuro was made leader of the ambush partying knowing that they would surely encounter the edo tensei first, and that they must win. what if he knows how to release them, and sai uses his ink to bind them, along with the earth user to bind them and omoi to protect them with his sword jutsu's.
then kankuro could concentrate and pull the binded souls off the dead bodies... its only a thought. i dont know if its possible. but it sure would come in handy right about now.

hope that helps.

 

[OopsWrongHole]

I think it is possible that Madara was the son of the elder brother.
However, you would think that if the SO6P was really that recent, then he wouldn't be disputed so much as "just a legend".
I'd imagine that there are many many generations between the SO6P and Uchiha Madara. Maybe 5-10+ generations at least?

But, what I really wondered after reading your comment, is what is this "SPECIAL" chakra that you are referring to? I wasn't aware of any special chakra of Madara's. Please explain?

I thought that but then wouldn't you also think that most of Konoha would of known Naruto was the son of the 4th Hokage due to his mum being an Uzumaki and being the only Uzumaki in the village, it pretty damn easy to notice but magically only the Kakashi guessed and the 3rd of course knew aswell including the elders.

 

[PainShinra]

Nice post, respect. I think almost the same way as you and I guess when the naruto manga stops for a week Kishimoto is doing such a great research as well to collect all his datas and his many secrets and puzzles in this manga.

 

[Cooldragon]

That's heck a long postxd

 

[Scorpio0Pharaoh0Titan]

This is a very well-written post with a well-rounded and in depth analysis of Uchiha Madara.


About time we had people (such as yourself) act as an example to others with respect to creating properly developed theories.

- Mohammed.

P.S: I think I am in love with you. In a very different way.