[VS] [Two Scenarios]Double MS Obito vs Sage mode Minato Namikaze

[Apêx1]

Only after immobilisation to force eye contact during a distraction

Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that Minato cannot touch Obito given Susano and kamui phasing.

 

[Draphsin]

Well But Minato is fast on his own. and has FTG.., Besides it only clear scenario where Minato is alive, what about ET...

Kamui's snipe will not work on Et...

BM minato is still just as easily susceptible to a snipe as alive minato.

& A snipe will still work on an edo. Once obito snipes a limb or minato's head obito can then warp to him & send the rest to the kamui dimension before he can regen.

 

[Strict]

The Kages were capable to fight without eye contact against 25Sharingan users without sensing

Yeah, it doesn't even matter that the clones were standing in the middle of Susanoo, only insisting on it while fighting the Kage. It's not like Madara could have easily caught them in a Genjutsu if he wished. Of course, the Kage can just avoid eye contact like nothing and continue the fight. They be like, an Uchiha? I'll just avoid eye contact so the Genjutsu can't do shit to me.

 

[Bogard]

Yeah, it doesn't even matter that the clones were standing in the middle of Susanoo, only insisting on it while fighting the Kage. It's not like Madara could have easily caught them in a Genjutsu if he wished. Of course, the Kage can just avoid eye contact like nothing and continue the fight. They be like, an Uchiha? I'll just avoid eye contact so the Genjutsu can't do shit to me.

Onoki always requested to fight without eye contact [

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] Did you see him(or any of the Kages) having trouble to fight against 25Sharingan users using their usual move, stance or techniques in these conditions?

 

[Strict]

Naruto also said not to look into Itachi's eyes, yet he felt for it. Twice.
Kakashi said not to look into his eyes, yet he did. With a clone though, but who says you will always back you up with a clone?
Ay felt for a Genjutsu. Yes you say Susanoo caught him, but that's the point. The Uchiha can easily force the victim to eye contact. It's not like the victim will just avoid eye contact and fight like nothing. The Uchiha will easily find a way to provoke eye contact. Only because one says you mustn't look into an Uchiha's eye, it doesn't mean they have the prowess to do that. Madara was just playing with them.

 

[Bogard]

Naruto also said not to look into Itachi's eyes, yet he felt for it. Twice.

When?

Kakashi said not to look into his eyes, yet he did. With a clone though, but who says you will always back you up with a clone?

Who says you won't? It was part of Kakashi's plan and Itachi fell for it

Ay felt for a Genjutsu. Yes you say Susanoo caught him, but that's the point. The Uchiha can easily force the victim to eye contact.

Not easily i'm afraid. You'll have to grab your opponent in close combat and force the eye contact hoping he won't escape or dodge/close his eye at that moment. Too many conditions

It's not like the victim will just avoid eye contact and fight like nothing.

The Kages did just that

The Uchiha will easily find a way to provoke eye contact.

How?

Only because one says you mustn't look into an Uchiha's eye, it doesn't mean they have the prowess to do that

Again the Kages did just that

Madara was just playing with them.

Excuses i see

 

[Strict]

Naruto said not to look into his eyes and got caught in a finger Genjutsu.
Second meeting, he says not to look into his eyes and falls for Dusk Crow Genjutsu.
You see, Itachi will always find a way. Or he summons a bunch of crows to block the victims sight, irritate him and then appear with Shunshin before him with the needed eye contact [

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].

The Kages did just that

Never did that as Madara never intended to use Genjutsu. He even had the Rinnegan activated, and we don't know whether the Sharingan's Genjutsu can be cast with the Rinnegan, as the victim would probably need eye contact with the MS to be hypnotized. Why else did the clone have the EMS while casting the Genjutsu? Where was the Rinnegan? Nothing in their fight suggests they were avoiding eye contact the whole time, as Madara never intended to use a Genjutsu. The one time he did, he succeeded. I mean Madara wasn't even going in close to mid range combat, he either used large scaled Mokuton techniques or Susanooo. And I can't think of how Madara woul cast a Genjutsu on a Kage while standing within his huge Susanoo and going on "rampage" with it. There wasn't even need for a Genjutsu at all. How the hell would the Kage look into Madara's eyes anyway if they have the big Susanoo construct in front of themselves instead of Madara. They didn't even have to care about eye contact as Susanoo's appearance got their visual attention.

In this sense, they would've easily fallen for Genjutsu if Madara wished. Like he did it easily with Ay.

 

[Bogard]

Naruto said not to look into his eyes and got caught in a finger Genjutsu.

Finger genjutsu =/= Sharingan genjutsu. Naruto respected the fight without eye contact. The fact Itachi was forced to cast genjutsu by another means show that

Second meeting, he says not to look into his eyes and falls for Dusk Crow Genjutsu.

Again he respected that, but didn't expect Itachi to put a Sharingan on one of his crows. He made no eye contact with Itachi, but with one of his crows

You see, Itachi will always find a way. Or he summons a bunch of crows to block the victims sight, irritate him and then appear with Shunshin before him with the needed eye contact [

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].

Indeed, but it has nothing to do with what i'm saying, and Sasuke is a sharingan user who didn't fear to battle Itachi in a genjutsu battle

Never did that as Madara never intended to use Genjutsu. He even had the Rinnegan activated, and we don't know whether the Sharingan's Genjutsu can be cast with the Rinnegan, as the victim would probably need eye contact with the MS to be hypnotized. Why else did the clone have the EMS while casting the Genjutsu? Where was the Rinnegan? Nothing in their fight suggests they were avoiding eye contact the whole time, as Madara never intended to use a Genjutsu. The one time he did, he succeeded. I mean Madara wasn't even going in close to mid range combat, he either used large scaled Mokuton techniques or Susanooo. And I can't think of how Madara woul cast a Genjutsu on a Kage while standing within his huge Susanoo and going on "rampage" with it. There wasn't even need for a Genjutsu at all. How the hell would the Kage look into Madara's eyes anyway if they have the big Susanoo construct in front of themselves instead of Madara. They didn't even have to care about eye contact as Susanoo's appearance got their visual attention.

It's how Onoki fight. Saying he make eye contact during fights when it's his fighting style, when he request otherwise is just a baseless statement

In this sense, they would've easily fallen for Genjutsu if Madara wished. Like he did it easily with Ay.

After grabing him in close combat to force the eye contact during a distraction

 

[AGoodBoy]

Wow great and well detailed explanation

However couldn't double times speed of jumping in other Dimenssion make any difference ?

Also possible Sussano, double time prolonged ability to stay itangible(10 minuts now), double times speed of long range Kamui warping.

By Manga knowledge I mean: "Current time"

doubble speed is useless when obito will never get the chance to touch minato. Minato's a sensor as proved when he parried obito who appeared behind him, and when he waited for obito to be inches away before FTG'ing. With just sensor skills, obito can't touch the guy, solidify and warp before he's somewhere else. Minato's not an idiot who'll stand around waiting to die.

If you mean double speed to go intangible, that's still useless considering Obito simply couldn't react to minato's ftg on 3 occasions. Having a faster jutsu doesn't help when your brain couldn't register the attack. Even juubito couldn't keep up with ftg... Let's not make the mistake of downplaying FTG's established feats just because madara's BAMF.

BM minato is still just as easily susceptible to a snipe as alive minato.

& A snipe will still work on an edo. Once obito snipes a limb or minato's head obito can then warp to him & send the rest to the kamui dimension before he can regen.

Minato tossed a kunai, ftg'd, prepped rasengan, and begun to swing at madara before Kamui could warp, but obito's going to snipe him? Lmfao...

 

[Strict]

Tsunade made direct eye contact when hitting him. She looked right into his eyes when coming into close combat. [

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] And there were other moments where Tsunade was close to Madara, looking at him and talking to him.

And as I mentioned, Madara had the Rinnegan activated all the time. No proof he can use MS Genjutsu with the Rinnegan, am I right?
Is there any need to avoid eye contact against the Rinnegan? No, there isn't, unless they fight against the Sharingan. And whether they can fight while effectively avoiding eye contact is another question. Sakura herself mentioned how hard it is to avoid eye contact as it is a habbit. Not to mention fighting a high calibre Shinobi while trying to avoid eye contact.

Again, is there a proof that Rinnegan cast Sharingan Genjutsu? If not, there was no need to avoid eye contact to begin with.

 

[Unorthodox]

bogard give it tf up minato loses

 

[A v i]

FTG is still faster than Kamui so the answer is obvious.

 

[KCMNaruto]

BM minato is still just as easily susceptible to a snipe as alive minato.

& A snipe will still work on an edo. Once obito snipes a limb or minato's head obito can then warp to him & send the rest to the kamui dimension before he can regen.

Ok, I can say that you are almost right, almost, yes ? because Minato doesn't need to stay still to regenerate, Can Minato just do this:

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[Bogard]

@Unorthodox just your opinion
@Strict i will come back to you later. Must go now. All i can say atm is that a face to face is not always synonym to eye contact and that the author established rules in this manga which mąkę it sound ridiculous for people trying to ignore or contradict them

 

[Sennin of Logic]

You do realize that the duration of Minato's Sennin Mode is only one attack right?​

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There's no proof that he lost it immediately after the attack.

 

[apsri]

It changes nothing. Minato already showed to move faster [

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] than Obito can activate kamui [

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] and move faster than both Kamui teleportation [

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] itself [

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]

In other words, not only he can't activate Kamui in time, but even while teleporting, Minato is faster. It would be a remake since Obito stands no chance with one or 2 kamui

Yes, but with both of his eyes he would have Susano'o.

It would be a very close match up. I reckon it could go either way.

Alive Obito vs Alive Minato... I reckon that after a good showing, Obito would lose to his sensei. Minato is more versatile, while Obito is dependent on his visual prowess. Without Senju DNA, he can't just spam his MS abilities like Kamui or Susano'o.

 

[apsri]

There's no proof that he lost it immediately after the attack.

Minato himself said that he was not very good with Sage Mode.

Which is a bit contradictory given how he can go Sage Mode without Ma or Pa, and without partially transforming into a frog, but meh.

 

[apsri]

Tsunade made direct eye contact when hitting him. She looked right into his eyes when coming into close combat. [

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] And there were other moments where Tsunade was close to Madara, looking at him and talking to him.

And as I mentioned, Madara had the Rinnegan activated all the time. No proof he can use MS Genjutsu with the Rinnegan, am I right?
Is there any need to avoid eye contact against the Rinnegan? No, there isn't, unless they fight against the Sharingan. And whether they can fight while effectively avoiding eye contact is another question. Sakura herself mentioned how hard it is to avoid eye contact as it is a habbit. Not to mention fighting a high calibre Shinobi while trying to avoid eye contact.

Again, is there a proof that Rinnegan cast Sharingan Genjutsu? If not, there was no need to avoid eye contact to begin with.

Madara used Susano'o while he had his Rinnegan activated. Susano'o is an MS ability. If he can use Susano'o, there's no reason he can't use other MS abilities, like Tsukuyomi, for example (if he has it, if not, some other genjutsu).

 

[Draphsin]

Minato tossed a kunai, ftg'd, prepped rasengan, and begun to swing at madara before Kamui could warp, but obito's going to snipe him? Lmfao...

You mean the same kamui that's coming from an exhausted kakashi, who was synchronizing his warp with gaara's jutsu, still managed to warp the gedo before it could teleport, & doesn't even have the double speed? Lol Then there's the fact that it be spammed, can appear from multiple directions, & the warp itself can't even be sensed.

You probably want proof that you can't sense a warp, well the example with minato pretty much confirms it, he didn't sense obito until he was there & already reaching for him, he should have sensed the warp if he could.

Furthermore, naruto in KCM failed to sense obito warping, he was only spotted thanks to kakashi. [

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]

Then there's the fact that karin couldn't sense obito's presence when warping in & out of a jinton, & she should have been able to since she's a sensor of the highest caliber. [

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]

Same with fuu, he failed to sense obito warping as well.

Not only is minato not sensing a warp from behind/above/below, but he fails to react to it in time because the gedo still got hit & minato can't throw faster than a gudo-dama can travel a few inches-feet. [

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Obito easily snipes minato, or his kunai, then minato.

Ok, I can say that you are almost right, almost, yes ? because Minato doesn't need to stay still to regenerate, Can Minato just do this:

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Sure he can still move around if he loses an arm, but if he loses his head or legs he's done for. & even if obito misses the first time he can follow up with an attack just as fast as the gudo-dama than got placed on him.

 

[DemonicAvenger]

There's no proof that he lost it immediately after the attack.

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is the next time we see Minato after he was repelled by Madara. Clearly out of Sennin Mode and nothing more than a small talk between Madara and Obito transpiring in between.

Madara's assault would have had nothing to do with him losing Sennin Mode either, as no Sennin Mode user has ever been 'knocked out' of Sennin Mode. The manga has shown the exact opposite on numerous occasions.​

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