Transgender Woman Sent Back To Male Prison Despite Appeal

[Avani]

No I didn't. I know the difference between a biological man and a biological woman. Hence why a transsexual male-to-female is a different category from the latter. If you use the difference of chromosomes to justify treating a biological female and transsexual female differently in legal matters, then I'm offering this syllogism/analogy to you: If we go strictly by conventional chromosome standards, should we then start treating people different for any chromosome states that differ from the norm of the category?

In this case, the category is: Females and legal treatment. If your chromosomes are different from that which conventionally and normally indicates female, you shouldn't be treated as a female. The counter-case I'm projecting is the category of human beings in general. Going by the principle established in the formerly mentioned case, if you don't have the conventional and normal arrangement of chromosomes that indicate a human being, you shouldn't be legally treated as such, which would include people Down's Syndrome because of the extra 21st chromosome, and therefore having 27 rather than the normal or conventional 26. If the principle is faulty here, then it can be asserted it's faulty in use of the transsexual case.




Yes, we get it, your brain can't tell what analogies and syllogism are. Oh, the post you were quoting also stretches into diasyrmus, which is a rhetorical device that creates argument through a ridiculous comparison to emphasize how ridiculous or flawed the original point(Ira's chromosome argument) is.

No you are missing the point of the difference in chromosome: What you are describing is an anomaly or genetic defect due to erroneous pairing etc. But even if someone is affected with Down's syndrome it would would still be a girl or a boy. Whether such an anomaly exist or not, is not a part of *** determination. The presence of Y chromosome is.

Normally biological *** is determined by five factors present at birth: the presence or absence of a Y chromosome, the type of gonads, the *** hormones, the internal reproductive anatomy (such as the uterus in females), and the external genitalia.

A transgender at the most can alter the external genitalia but his body won't be making hormones and he will have to take it regularly to feel in the group he self identifies himself. It doesn't make him same as the woman though he may think he feels like one. He still has his old male skeleton and more muscle power too. Factually such transgender people still have less reasons to be categorized as women biologically, than they have for being categorized as male. Thus you trying to equate them with biological women is being mischievous at best.

Frankly it's kind of annoying when participating in an sports event for women, one ends up competing with a "self identified woman" transgender with his physique and muscle power as a male. One can as well send only transgender women to female categories of women, leaving no place for actual women in the Olympics once again. There are other similar situations when this "self identity" whether legal or not is simply unfair to actual women and they are imposing themselves on them because it's comparatively 'easier'.

Though in military, the officers maybe happier with such 'women' instead of actual women in combat. I am going too random..But point remains Transsexual women are not women and your arguments in this regard are not sincere enough.

I think none of the people actually sees the real issue here. Problem is not that a transgendered person is going to get eventually prison raped ... the problem is that prison rape is so common that people see it as unavoidable. (The problem would not have arised if there was statistically insignificant amount of prison assaults)

As Joker would say ... Inmates get raped all the time and no one bats and an eye. But news implies a transgendered criminal potentially may treated as any weakling/target behind bars ,aka, get raped and everyone loses their mind.

Also its funny that he/she thinks that female inmates are totally incapable of shoving a spoon up his/her ass if things go rough.

Female prisons are not safe from rape but have a very high percentage of such cases - at the hand of male guards and jail officials. The number of such jails for women is much less than the jails for males, so the option to transfer to another jail because of problems in one, is less feasible for them and complaining doesn't work much even if some how one of them manages to complain. So that risk of harassment is pretty much there. But regarding your last complain, yes some female prisoners maybe capable of that but a transgender woman is still more likely to have better muscle power and stronger physique and one known to have a temper ...

 

[Monxstaa]

Woah what has my thread turned into

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[Anorien16]

Female prisons are not safe from rape but have a very high percentage of such cases - at the hand of male guards and jail officials. The number of such jails for women is much less than the jails for males so the option to transfer to another jail because of problems in one, is less feasible for them and complaining doesn't work much even if some how one of them manages to complain. So that risk of harassment is pretty much there.

I am aware of the issue on the both side that is why I used gender neutral terms in every case. But my point remains: We should be more concerned with stopping all forms of prison assault then this kind of arguments be less necessary.

But regarding your last complain, yes some female prisoners maybe capable of that but a transgender woman is still more likely to have better muscle power and stronger physique and one known to have a temper ...

You should consider that Prison have gangs and the average Jenny who may have demands are hardened women. People are not stupid.

 

[Avani]

I am aware of the issue on the both side that is why I used gender neutral terms in every case. But my point remains: We should be more concerned with stopping all forms of prison assault then this kind of arguments be less necessary.



You should consider that Prison have gangs and the average Jenny who may have demands are hardened women. People are not stupid.

I was adding to your first post since it wasn't clear, not disagreeing with your first para.

Second one is debatable because there are too many variables in a conflict. And who are these 'people' you are referring to for I see some very stupid ones out there. :|

 

[SAmIDeXtEr]

Damn, I'd hit that I mean cmon she's ****ing gorgeous no homo
The article clearly states she had been living as a woman for years
What's the worst that could happen.

 

[Anorien16]

I was adding to your first post since it wasn't clear, not disagreeing with your first para.

Ah. My mistake then.

Second one is debatable because there are too many variables in a conflict. And who are these 'people' you are referring to for I see some very stupid ones out there. :|

People are stupid but they dont forget their survival instincts. One of our neighborhood retards got arrested once and I observed the tendencies from there ... gangs roughed him up (very carefully so that the authorities dont catch them) and extorted his family for food and favors etc. .... ironically criminals establish a criminal empire even with in prisons. That is what I was referring to ... they are not so stupid to act alone.

 

[The Western Wheel]

She headbutted a barman? To the point the teeth broke?

Did she get hit first? Was it self-defense?

Over-powered in a female populated prison, nerved in a male priseon.

Male it is. No advantages to prison.

However, the issue here is actually the life-threatening situations in prisons, in America. There wouldn't be such a fuss if she went to a Dutch prison. Like often, the system is wrong, and it claims victims. Whether it be a male, female, or LGTB or whatever label people have nowadays, with all their choices and complexes.

All human beings should have rights, true, but all adult human beings should be able to recognize whatever they are getting themselves into, headbutting a barman does pave the road to prison in certain countries, maybe that's not the smartest thing to do it if you try to build a life, whether it be redefining yourself, or achieving something.

She brought this on her own, I am inclined to say. Besides, she does not need to be in general population, not? Some protection can be arranged, even if it might mean to strip 'priviliges'.

Have fun in solitairy and use your head in different ways next time.

 

[Ripple Hole]

Damn, I'd hit that I mean cmon she's ****ing gorgeous no homo
The article clearly states she had been living as a woman for years
What's the worst that could happen.

She headbutts your pelvic bone, breaking it.

 

[Umari Senju]

Point 1 is sinister imo. To keep such a secret to the other person in the relationship is wrong, almost like having *** with someone while knowing you have some STD.....

i agree. While it may not be illegal in the eyes of the law. It should be illegal in the public's eyes. Transgender should have a moral obligation to tell a partner they were once another ***. It's not only wrong to withhold such a thing from a potential life partner, but it's building a relationship on deceit. I know a number of guys (who are not gay) who know their wives were once dudes. But are fine with it because they no longer have the genitalia that would otherwise turn them away.

OT: she should be placed in the prison of the *** that has the same genitalia as she does. If the operation is complete then a female prison she should go. If she still has male genitalia then she needs to be with the men.

That does make a big difference. Rape can and does happen in any of the prisons regardless of gender. But if she is placed in a male prison with female genitalia the risk is increased 100 fold. She will be targeted for rape before any male is.

 

[Risuna23]

Too bad there's no third gender prison in the U.S huh

 

[CreativeSeun]

Lol I laugh at this so called Trangender people...a man will alway be a man and a woman will always be a woman..for a man to be a woman he has to die and be reborn as a female because our brains are different our bone structure are different our blood flows are different and our bodies are different

Ask a man who did "surgury" to become a woman if he can get pregnant like a REAL woman

Ask a woman who also did "surgury" to become a man if she can inpregnate a woman or produce Testoterone or produce sperm like a REAL man

Or if a man who changed to a woman can produce milk in his breast to breast feed a child

All these Transgenders are just making themselves to be mistakes and causing problems for themselves, bunch of people living FAKE Lives!

There is nothing to rape in that Transgender, he doesn't have a vagina to give the satisfaction a man would feel, its just his look that will be appealing to them because he made himself look like a woman but not one

 

[FunkyFatal]

He/She is going to get butt raped so hard in that prison lmao. I kinda feel sorry for him lol.

 

[Umari Senju]

You're being nonsensical. You'll send this dude to a female prison to victimize people, but won't send him to a male prison to be victimized? I don't think either is necessarily right but there is no middle ground.

You seem to be under the assumption that the other female prisoners are just going to be pushovers....You realize over half of them are in there because they victimized other dudes and not just other women.....right? The female prisoners are as dangerous as the males. the only difference is this woman (she has all the parts now and not just dressing up) will be in a prison with other that have the same genitalia. She can (and probably will) still get rapped. And if she tries to headbutt some girl there, She will probably be met with a shiv in the gut.

Don't act like these female inmates can't handle their own against a guy or a woman.

 

[Multiply]

You seem to be under the assumption that the other female prisoners are just going to be pushovers....You realize over half of them are in there because they victimized other dudes and not just other women.....right? The female prisoners are as dangerous as the males. the only difference is this woman (she has all the parts now and not just dressing up) will be in a prison with other that have the same genitalia. She can (and probably will) still get rapped. And if she tries to headbutt some girl there, She will probably be met with a shiv in the gut.

Don't act like these female inmates can't handle their own against a guy or a woman.

1. Women pose a lower public safety risk than men. Women typically enter the criminal justice system for nonviolent crimes that are often drug and/or property-related. Within correctional facility settings, incidents of violence and aggression committed by incarcerated women are extremely low.

4. Women entering jails and prisons often report histories of victimization and trauma, and continue to be vulnerable to victimization within correctional settings. Trauma such as sexual victimization is often linked to mental health, substance abuse, and relationship difficulties and contributes to criminal pathways for women.

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[CloyEscapade]

No you are missing the point of the difference in chromosome: What you are describing is an anomaly or genetic defect due to erroneous pairing etc. But even if someone is affected with Down's syndrome it would would still be a girl or a boy. Whether such an anomaly exist or not, is not a part of *** determination. The presence of Y chromosome is.

Normally biological *** is determined by five factors present at birth: the presence or absence of a Y chromosome, the type of gonads, the *** hormones, the internal reproductive anatomy (such as the uterus in females), and the external genitalia.

A transgender at the most can alter the external genitalia but his body won't be making hormones and he will have to take it regularly to feel in the group he self identifies himself. It doesn't make him same as the woman though he may think he feels like one. He still has his old male skeleton and more muscle power too.
Frankly it's kind of annoying when participating in an sports event for women, one ends up competing with a "self identified woman" transgender with his physique and muscle power as a male. One can as well send only transgender women to female categories of women, leaving no place for actual women in the Olympics once again. There are other similar situations when this "self identity" whether legal or not is simply unfair to actual women and they are imposing themselves on them because it's comparatively 'easier'.

Though in military, the officers maybe happier with such 'women' instead of actual women in combat. I am going too random..But point remains Transsexual women are not women and your arguments in this regard are not .

Hi there... I read this and just wanted to share my experience... Unfortunately here in the US we stop teaching genetics at middle school levels to the masses. Some studies approach the idea that 1 in 2000 are intersexed here in the states. These are not downs and other genetic disorders but actual varieties such as xx males xy females and all the other turners and klienfelters etc. of the world. Here in the states we do not genetically screen at birth we look at the child's private bits and chop off and mutilate anything that doesn't fit our definition of "normal". An xy woman with congenital androgen insufficiency will not have a uterus nor will she have male "strength" as she can not use testosterone... I know this case is not a transgendered person but it brings me to your other statement that a trans woman has the strength of a man. A trans woman will have close to zero testosterone after 8-12 months of estrogen therapy, she will have less than most genetic women and will lose an average of 30% muscle mass after a year. Your Olympics statement seems the most misguided as there are many women that have much higher testosterone levels than some men even, but genetics won't catch that and it is assumed they must be doping or transgendered, because they are bigger faster and stronger, not because the are 'gifted'.

Anyways, thought I'd put in my 2 cents.
I've been practicing medicine for 5 years now... A lot of these arguments and discussions horrify me. The binary ideals of this world simply do not exist, worst of all hearing random people(not you) claim "SCIENCE!!!" Defines a man or a woman doesn't understand that we've been beyond this argument since the 1970's when De la chappelle described and proved the first XX male, penis and all.

 

[Aim64C]

Hi there... I read this and just wanted to share my experience... Unfortunately here in the US we stop teaching genetics at middle school levels to the masses. Some studies approach the idea that 1 in 2000 are intersexed here in the states. These are not downs and other genetic disorders but actual varieties such as xx males xy females and all the other turners and klienfelters etc. of the world. Here in the states we do not genetically screen at birth we look at the child's private bits and chop off and mutilate anything that doesn't fit our definition of "normal". An xy woman with congenital androgen insufficiency will not have a uterus nor will she have male "strength" as she can not use testosterone... I know this case is not a transgendered person but it brings me to your other statement that a trans woman has the strength of a man. A trans woman will have close to zero testosterone after 8-12 months of estrogen therapy, she will have less than most genetic women and will lose an average of 30% muscle mass after a year. Your Olympics statement seems the most misguided as there are many women that have much higher testosterone levels than some men even, but genetics won't catch that and it is assumed they must be doping or transgendered, because they are bigger faster and stronger, not because the are 'gifted'.

Anyways, thought I'd put in my 2 cents.
I've been practicing medicine for 5 years now... A lot of these arguments and discussions horrify me. The binary ideals of this world simply do not exist, worst of all hearing random people(not you) claim "SCIENCE!!!" Defines a man or a woman doesn't understand that we've been beyond this argument since the 1970's when De la chappelle described and proved the first XX male, penis and all.

It's really simple, there, Doc:

*** in the world of biology is defined as any common genetic trait that prevents reproduction among those with said genetic trait.

Some species of mosses have over 90 sexes. Animals are a bit less diverse in that arena, and most only have two sexes, although the argument could be made that your "XX chromosome with a penis" is an example of a parasitic mutation that would threaten to convert the entire human population to effective males over the span of many generations.

While you are correct in pointing out that things are not as 'binary' as they would first appear - the point is that the distinction exists between men and women for a reason - there has been a divergence of the physiology of the sexes for a reason.

Further, what defines "transgendered?"

There are plenty of men running around with implants and plastic surgery to look like women while still having testes who claim to be transgendered. Your own argument, also, defeats itself. You harp on the notion of things not being binary then want to tout a bunch of 'facts' about what happens after someone loses their testes as if it is a law. Some women have more testosterone than men - but men who are rendered into women will now have less than women?

Further - what is the duration of the studies that show this? I would contend that, yes, after surgery, one would normally lose muscle mass. Further, if one changes lifestyles - particularly to the more sedentary patterns that women typically fill ... then, yes, you would also lose muscle mass.

Hormone levels in the body are also known to be relatively fickle things that can swing considerably through different stages of life and even times of day. Following a sudden removal of an organ, it would not be unusual for the body to have substantially altered hormone levels. How do those hormone levels respond over a year? A decade?

The fact of the matter is that there is more to men than simply testosterone levels. The Y chromosome is a relatively small segment of DNA, but genetics has shown time and time again that length and importance/complexity are not correlated when it comes to genetics. Exactly what it does is still a subject of research - but there are numerous proteins coded onto the chromosome, many of which are not fully understood (if anything in biology could ever be said to be 'fully understood').

 

[Honord Sage]

A huge can say He is a Woman but Nature says He is a Man. How you ask? You can cut off your genitals and pump yourself with female hormone. But your DNA Says you're a Man. No scientist can change your DNA today. Males do not have uterus and eggs and Females can’t produce semen. All you got is a mentally ill person who thinks their in the wrong body.

 

[Power Bottom]

A huge can say He is a Woman but Nature says He is a Man. How you ask? You can cut off your genitals and pump yourself with female hormone. But your DNA Says you're a Man. No scientist can change your DNA today. Males do not have uterus and eggs and Females can’t produce semen. All you got is a mentally ill person who thinks their in the wrong body.

They aren't mentally ill :|

 

[00Rinne]

So feel sorry for a dude who wants to be a woman committing crimes an wants to be sent to a female prison when he is a dude. I mean no disrespect but these people are getting out of hand.

Next thing you know they'll be getting away with vehicular manslaughter with a slap on the wrist.

Oh! Yea

An stop saying SHE like that's what it is.

 

[Cornson]

with supporters claiming she is in danger of sexual violence

news flash, so are the men at the prison, men are the gender that gets raped the most (world wide) do to prisons.

and it's not like it's hard for "her" to get put in solitary, all she needs to do is to go over to a guard a smack him, there it's done and she will be left alone for the remainder of her time, problem solved.