[Theory] Tobi: Thread for all Tobi theories and related discussions .
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Did you read what I said? I know Madara was revived but that maybe be just his body, he could of have his "shell" split before he died. Remember this is Naruto so Kishimoto can just pull out something like this out of nowhere..
After reading up on some things, I came up with a theory on Tobi. This could possibly resemble someone else's theory. I could be wrong about some of the details, so you are welcome to correct me. Here it goes.
Lets just get this out of the way. I think Tobi could be Izuna, Madara's brother. Izuna gave up his eyes to Madara after Madara had lost sight. Izuna later died in battle. Madara survived after his battle with Hashirama. Somehow he obtained Hashirama's DNA, which possibly awakened the Rinnegan. The Rinnegan can decipher more secrets from the Uchiha tablet hidden in the Naka Shrine. One of the secrets were possibly instructions on reviving the dead. I don't remember if it was Madara, but it has been said that Madara awakened the Rinnegan shortly before his death. After learning about the Rinnegan's secrets, he immediately thought about reviving his dead brother. He would succeed in reviving his brother, but he payed a price. Death. It wasn't instant death, but he died within a few minutes after Izuna's revival. Madara informed Izuna on the secrets of the tablet and the Rinnegan before passing away. He would warn Izuna that the user who tries to revive one would die. Izuna told Madara that he would take Madara's Rinnegan eyes and transplant it into a boy named Nagato, who would be used to revive Madara one day. After Madara's death, Izuna disguised himself and took on the name Madara to terrify the world.
Madara right now is in his uniform and isn't physically damaged, which seems to show that he died suddenly and not in battle.
Lets just get this out of the way. I think Tobi could be Izuna, Madara's brother. Izuna gave up his eyes to Madara after Madara had lost sight. Izuna later died in battle. Madara survived after his battle with Hashirama. Somehow he obtained Hashirama's DNA, which possibly awakened the Rinnegan. The Rinnegan can decipher more secrets from the Uchiha tablet hidden in the Naka Shrine. One of the secrets were possibly instructions on reviving the dead. I don't remember if it was Madara, but it has been said that Madara awakened the Rinnegan shortly before his death. After learning about the Rinnegan's secrets, he immediately thought about reviving his dead brother. He would succeed in reviving his brother, but he payed a price. Death. It wasn't instant death, but he died within a few minutes after Izuna's revival. Madara informed Izuna on the secrets of the tablet and the Rinnegan before passing away. He would warn Izuna that the user who tries to revive one would die. Izuna told Madara that he would take Madara's Rinnegan eyes and transplant it into a boy named Nagato, who would be used to revive Madara one day. After Madara's death, Izuna disguised himself and took on the name Madara to terrify the world.
Madara right now is in his uniform and isn't physically damaged, which seems to show that he died suddenly and not in battle.
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jaegerjaquez
Member
its zetsu cuz in the anime when minato hit tobi with a resengan, tobi's arm melts off like a zetsu
I'm not saying Oro is Tobi, but this page made me ponder the fact, even though Tobi said Oro was a nuisance even after death, showing they are 2 seperate people. Just something I thought that could be foreshadowing.
(Notice the snake outline due to burning and dying from amaterasu, then blackens to picture Tobi's mask eye hole.)
Just thought I'd share only because it struck me as interesting.
Link:
Another thing to reflect on: I agree with a lot of people saying are Madara is "the one who knows everything," just found it funny that Tobi has a whole chapter dedicated to him with the title "The one who knows the truth." Plus the title after that chapter is "The origins of Konoha."
(Notice the snake outline due to burning and dying from amaterasu, then blackens to picture Tobi's mask eye hole.)
Just thought I'd share only because it struck me as interesting.
Link:
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Another thing to reflect on: I agree with a lot of people saying are Madara is "the one who knows everything," just found it funny that Tobi has a whole chapter dedicated to him with the title "The one who knows the truth." Plus the title after that chapter is "The origins of Konoha."
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True, but unlikely.
What he meant by Madara being brought back was that his WHOLE SOUL was revived. Unless Madara managed to split his soul into other objects/beings and this manga turns into Harry Potter, or the fact that Madara is revived means his whole identity and being is in that one Edo Tensei.
edo tensai wilmaso
Active member
yellow flash94
Member
Here is one of my theories that i think explains the identity of tobi:
Well the manga clearly states these facts upfront:
1)Nagato awakened his rinnegan first when his parents died.
2)Madara was not in possesion of rinnegan when he battled Hashi.
3)Rinnegan has the power to bring back the dead.
4)Tobi "claims" to have given the rinnegan to nagato.
5)madara obtained senju dna during his battle with hashi,it is evident from one of kabuto's statements idk from which chapter.(considering senju DNa a requirement for rinnegan)
Based on these facts I would like to propose a hypothesis on the matters at hand,namely rinnegans evolution ,nagato and madara's possesion of it and the identity of tobi.
It is clearly stated in the manga that madara had awakened his rinnegan shortly before his death.
So what I think happened is that when he awakened his rinnegan he had already planned on putting the eye of moon plan in motion,as shown fro his knowledge about the plan.
Thus foreseeing his death,maybe due to his injuries from his battle with hashi, he as a last deperate measure used "Samsara of heavenly life" to bring back to life someone who was loyal to him to bring him back to life after his death.
And I hypothise that this is the person who we know as tobi.Now according to this the most appropriate candidate would be Izuna,who had already died,assumption,to entrust his rinnegan.
But Izuna could not carry the rinnegan as he didn't have the senju DNA like so he implanted into Nagato's eyes,who as an uzumaki had the required quality.
This also explains the fighting prowess of tobi as izuna was said to be equal to his brother.
This also explains why he holds a grudge against Uchiha for having betrayed his brother whom he was loyal towards.It also explains how he states that Izuna had willingly given his eyes to madara,because well he was him.
It also explains why he was afraid when kabuto had shown him madara's body using edo tensei.
So net result :
1)Tobi is none other than Izuna.
2)It was tobi who had given nagato his rinnegan.
3)Senju DNA was required to activate rinnegan(1 more hypothises because since rinnegan was so6p's eyes it can be assumed it required both his life force as well as his physical energy to activate it.hence both the brothers attributes were required,hence the above hypothesis)
Sorry, that the post is highly disordered it is because I'm new to the base and don't know how to edit with photos and other facts.
And please comment on this if you have read it fully
Well the manga clearly states these facts upfront:
1)Nagato awakened his rinnegan first when his parents died.
2)Madara was not in possesion of rinnegan when he battled Hashi.
3)Rinnegan has the power to bring back the dead.
4)Tobi "claims" to have given the rinnegan to nagato.
5)madara obtained senju dna during his battle with hashi,it is evident from one of kabuto's statements idk from which chapter.(considering senju DNa a requirement for rinnegan)
Based on these facts I would like to propose a hypothesis on the matters at hand,namely rinnegans evolution ,nagato and madara's possesion of it and the identity of tobi.
It is clearly stated in the manga that madara had awakened his rinnegan shortly before his death.
So what I think happened is that when he awakened his rinnegan he had already planned on putting the eye of moon plan in motion,as shown fro his knowledge about the plan.
Thus foreseeing his death,maybe due to his injuries from his battle with hashi, he as a last deperate measure used "Samsara of heavenly life" to bring back to life someone who was loyal to him to bring him back to life after his death.
And I hypothise that this is the person who we know as tobi.Now according to this the most appropriate candidate would be Izuna,who had already died,assumption,to entrust his rinnegan.
But Izuna could not carry the rinnegan as he didn't have the senju DNA like so he implanted into Nagato's eyes,who as an uzumaki had the required quality.
This also explains the fighting prowess of tobi as izuna was said to be equal to his brother.
This also explains why he holds a grudge against Uchiha for having betrayed his brother whom he was loyal towards.It also explains how he states that Izuna had willingly given his eyes to madara,because well he was him.
It also explains why he was afraid when kabuto had shown him madara's body using edo tensei.
So net result :
1)Tobi is none other than Izuna.
2)It was tobi who had given nagato his rinnegan.
3)Senju DNA was required to activate rinnegan(1 more hypothises because since rinnegan was so6p's eyes it can be assumed it required both his life force as well as his physical energy to activate it.hence both the brothers attributes were required,hence the above hypothesis)
Sorry, that the post is highly disordered it is because I'm new to the base and don't know how to edit with photos and other facts.
And please comment on this if you have read it fully
edo tensai wilmaso
Active member
Good theory I only have one issue , Izuna did not give his eyes to madara, it's more like madara took them from him. So why would Izuna help his brother if he practically killed him. So Izuna theory seems to be the favorite that's only cuz hes a uchiha... I think that Tobi is not a uchiha at all.
edo tensai wilmaso
Active member
Cool idea but kabuto already said that madara was a special Edo, he brought him back to his prime. So madara would not look the same as he died.
A blind Uchiha Madara goes and takes hes brother eyes = while being blind and injured?
Izuna = Before giving hes eyes to hes brother = made sure , that he gets 2 new ones for replacement.
NarutoKage2
Active member
Sorry, but there are several BIG flaws with this theory if we follow the manga:
1. If Madara revived Izuna using his rinnegan powers, why did'nt Izuna have the MS, which he had before he died? Tobi has NEVER been shown with a MS, he should have had it if he was a revived Izuna. When Pain revived Kakashi, he still had an implanted sharingan, there's no reason why Izuna would not also have had his Mangekyuo if he had been revived from the same technique.
2. If Madara knew how to revive people who had been long dead with the Samsara of heavenly life tech, why did'nt he explain the method to Izuna, who you claim is Tobi? Ive made a detailed thread explaining why the Rinnegan does NOT require senju DNA, but even if it did, Madara had that DNA on his body, and btw so does Tobi(re read the fight with Konan).
3. Madara has categorically stated that Izuna, his brother died. He would'nt have said that if his brother were still alive as Tobi.
Maybe only the memory of Izuna died.
And Tobi has a split personality or something.
One is Izuna the other is Tobi.
For Izuna , Tobi is hes protection and a shield for outside world.
It's only a matter of few chapters , when it will be revealed^^
sauskeuchihakillz
Member
i have my own theory on who tobi is...
The name "Fugaku" is an alias, or alternative name, for Mt. Fuji in Japan. While the origin for Mt. Fuji's name isn't 100% clear, a Japanese text says it gained its name from the word "immortal" (Fuji). Tobi is called immortal by many characters in Naruto.
Another origin of the name of Mt. Fuji says that it gained its name from an idea of "an abundance (fu) of soldiers (shi/ji)". Tobi has 100,000 soldiers at his bidding.
Another Japanese folklore says that Fuji came from the words "not" and "two". In Japan, this translates as "without equal" or "having no equal". That would explain his character as the main antagonist.
That regards Fugaku's name.
For appearances, when Tobi removed his mask, it was clear that the man is aged and has 2 bags under his eyes. If you look closer, there's also Fugaku's and Itachi's prominent facial creases. Fugaku was 40 at his apparent death. The story has since moved on 10 years, giving an appropriate age for the man under the mask.
Now on to the plot:
Fugaku needed an alias. His name is not feared and won't gather immediate respect. Thus, he took on "Madara" as both of their ideals are similar. Since their ideals are similar, no one would question if he was really Madara.
Fugaku wanted the Uchiha Clan to control Konoha. He didn't like the way his clan was treated. This was well known throughout the higher ups of Konoha. Thus, when the 9-Tails attacked, Fugaku and the Uchiha were suspected of planning it. Fugaku was also noticeably absent during the attack as mentioned by Itachi.
Where was he you may ask? He was busy attacking Minato as "Tobi/Madara". When he failed to destroy Konoha and the elders, he had to re-think his plan.
What he came up with was the Eye of the Moon Plan. It was then where he decided to gather Hashirama's DNA in order to obtain Izanagi and greater powers. Since these bodily experiments would be rather obvious, he had his reliable servant, Zetsu, make a clone of him before starting. From that day on, it was the Zetsu clone that took his place in Konoha.
After some time, Tobi approached Konoha in order to attack again. However, Itachi intercepted him and made a deal, oblivious of the fact that it was really his father. But why would Fugaku make a deal that would kill off his entire clan?
First off, Itachi had fallen out of favor from his father. Fugaku thought Itachi would be the clan's saving member. However, it became painfully obvious that Itachi wasn't interested in doing what's best for the clan.
Since killing the entire clan would make Itachi a rogue shinobi, this was the perfect opportunity for Itachi to help Fugaku. As a rogue shinobi, he would be hired into Akatsuki, unwillingly helping Fugaku to achieve his master plan.
Also, this would kill his Zetsu clone, significant because if left unharmed, the clone would theoretically not age. This would reveal that it's not really Fugaku.
Another reason is the development of Sasuke. Sasuke had recently gained his father's trust, though not as much as Itachi had. Knowing that anger can drive a person without end, killing off his clan and family would jump-start a potential powerful shinobi.
This worked out perfectly for Fugaku.
Fugaku now has his ideal son working for him in Itachi. If Itachi still doesn't work out, Fugaku has Sasuke in the background, increasingly becoming stronger. He also has fame and reputation as "Madara".
Now for some miscellaneous details:
Naruto and Sasuke will be forever intertwined. The same goes for their family and blood.
During the 9-Tails' attack, it was revealed that Kushina and Mikoto Uchiha (Sasuke's mother) are friends, and good ones at that. Mikoto was also said to be missing during the 9-Tails' attack. She was noticeably compliant with Fugaku's ideals of the Uchiha taking over. Thus, she told Fugaku of Kushina's pregnancy, giving him the perfect time to release the 9-Tails. That's a connection for their mothers.
For their fathers, they fought during the 9-Tails' attack. One was the Child of Prophecy that potentially could bring world peace, while the other wanted to have world domination, in his own sense of "peace".
This theory isn't perfect, but hey, Kishi has a lot of explaining to do with Tobi anyway.
The name "Fugaku" is an alias, or alternative name, for Mt. Fuji in Japan. While the origin for Mt. Fuji's name isn't 100% clear, a Japanese text says it gained its name from the word "immortal" (Fuji). Tobi is called immortal by many characters in Naruto.
Another origin of the name of Mt. Fuji says that it gained its name from an idea of "an abundance (fu) of soldiers (shi/ji)". Tobi has 100,000 soldiers at his bidding.
Another Japanese folklore says that Fuji came from the words "not" and "two". In Japan, this translates as "without equal" or "having no equal". That would explain his character as the main antagonist.
That regards Fugaku's name.
For appearances, when Tobi removed his mask, it was clear that the man is aged and has 2 bags under his eyes. If you look closer, there's also Fugaku's and Itachi's prominent facial creases. Fugaku was 40 at his apparent death. The story has since moved on 10 years, giving an appropriate age for the man under the mask.
Now on to the plot:
Fugaku needed an alias. His name is not feared and won't gather immediate respect. Thus, he took on "Madara" as both of their ideals are similar. Since their ideals are similar, no one would question if he was really Madara.
Fugaku wanted the Uchiha Clan to control Konoha. He didn't like the way his clan was treated. This was well known throughout the higher ups of Konoha. Thus, when the 9-Tails attacked, Fugaku and the Uchiha were suspected of planning it. Fugaku was also noticeably absent during the attack as mentioned by Itachi.
Where was he you may ask? He was busy attacking Minato as "Tobi/Madara". When he failed to destroy Konoha and the elders, he had to re-think his plan.
What he came up with was the Eye of the Moon Plan. It was then where he decided to gather Hashirama's DNA in order to obtain Izanagi and greater powers. Since these bodily experiments would be rather obvious, he had his reliable servant, Zetsu, make a clone of him before starting. From that day on, it was the Zetsu clone that took his place in Konoha.
After some time, Tobi approached Konoha in order to attack again. However, Itachi intercepted him and made a deal, oblivious of the fact that it was really his father. But why would Fugaku make a deal that would kill off his entire clan?
First off, Itachi had fallen out of favor from his father. Fugaku thought Itachi would be the clan's saving member. However, it became painfully obvious that Itachi wasn't interested in doing what's best for the clan.
Since killing the entire clan would make Itachi a rogue shinobi, this was the perfect opportunity for Itachi to help Fugaku. As a rogue shinobi, he would be hired into Akatsuki, unwillingly helping Fugaku to achieve his master plan.
Also, this would kill his Zetsu clone, significant because if left unharmed, the clone would theoretically not age. This would reveal that it's not really Fugaku.
Another reason is the development of Sasuke. Sasuke had recently gained his father's trust, though not as much as Itachi had. Knowing that anger can drive a person without end, killing off his clan and family would jump-start a potential powerful shinobi.
This worked out perfectly for Fugaku.
Fugaku now has his ideal son working for him in Itachi. If Itachi still doesn't work out, Fugaku has Sasuke in the background, increasingly becoming stronger. He also has fame and reputation as "Madara".
Now for some miscellaneous details:
Naruto and Sasuke will be forever intertwined. The same goes for their family and blood.
During the 9-Tails' attack, it was revealed that Kushina and Mikoto Uchiha (Sasuke's mother) are friends, and good ones at that. Mikoto was also said to be missing during the 9-Tails' attack. She was noticeably compliant with Fugaku's ideals of the Uchiha taking over. Thus, she told Fugaku of Kushina's pregnancy, giving him the perfect time to release the 9-Tails. That's a connection for their mothers.
For their fathers, they fought during the 9-Tails' attack. One was the Child of Prophecy that potentially could bring world peace, while the other wanted to have world domination, in his own sense of "peace".
This theory isn't perfect, but hey, Kishi has a lot of explaining to do with Tobi anyway.
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