Theory: The Bitter Truth About The Uchiha Massacre and the Kyuubi Attack on Konoha
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SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO
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Thanks everyone
KGB Kakuzu
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Yup that was pretty much what I had figured! Well at the very least that Obito was framing the Uchiha.
Especially since Minato was revived. As Minato would obviously say the masked man with a sharingan attacked. Sasuke is smart enough to realize that Uchiha + controlled Kurama (which would display sharingan tomoe) would look suspicious to at least elite members of the village. Danzo being involves was something I thought possible, but figured could be 50/50 since their origional involvement was the Uchiha Clan Massacre.
Anyways good job!
Especially since Minato was revived. As Minato would obviously say the masked man with a sharingan attacked. Sasuke is smart enough to realize that Uchiha + controlled Kurama (which would display sharingan tomoe) would look suspicious to at least elite members of the village. Danzo being involves was something I thought possible, but figured could be 50/50 since their origional involvement was the Uchiha Clan Massacre.
Anyways good job!
Thundercles
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Like minds think alike. I didn't even have to finish your thread to get what you are saying. Might I say, outstanding thread, Derp. I think this thoroughly explains wht happened.
KingHashirama
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+repped, but DAnzo and Obito didn't have any connection. It was always , Orochimaru and Danzo.
However, Hiruzen could've done a whole lot. And also, the reason for the Coup wasn't only the blame for the 9-tails.. but also them being put to the side.
However, Hiruzen could've done a whole lot. And also, the reason for the Coup wasn't only the blame for the 9-tails.. but also them being put to the side.
Strata Uchiha
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What a deep topic sir!
G
GwemBaba
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Yet again great theory, I made a post recently thinking this was one great plot hole, and you (Unlike me) actually came up with a plausible reason for this.
Where were the Uchiha? When only an Uchiha can control Kurama, surely the village folk were asking the same question.
GT
Where were the Uchiha? When only an Uchiha can control Kurama, surely the village folk were asking the same question.
GT
SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO
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SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO
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Gyakusetsu
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Outstanding post that frames up the arguments for why Tobito, Madara and Danzo would have taken the actions of attacking the Leaf and framing the Uchiha clan.
There are some factors that need to be considered. First, when Tobito made mention of the Kyuubi attack to Sasuke he readily admits to him his participation in the Uchiha massacre and his grudge against the Leaf.
If he readily admits participation, why would he seek to hide the fact that he actively participated that night and took control of the Kyuubi? As he stated, the Leaf village had already started to discriminate against the Uchiha and the Kuyuubi attack was simply the straw that broke the camel's back.
It couldn't be fear of Sasuke's reprisal that made Tobito conceal his participation in the Kyuubi attack. After all he admits to assisting in the slaughter of his own clan directly, but what else is Tobito trying to conceal in this event?
This event serves as the catalyst for Naruto's life of loneliness. Tobito doesn't make any mention of Naruto's birth in that process to Sasuke.
Tobito could have chosen to participate in the Uchiha massacre out of a sense of loyalty to Madara but it is doubtful given his recent exchanges. In fact, I believe that Tobito is under influences even he is unaware of that cause him to overlook things like his own eye still given to Kakashi.
This leads me to the conclusion that there was another reason why Tobito participated in the Kyuubi attack and Uchiha massacre. One I have already given above. The other is this.
The Uchiha tablet. I believe that Tobito was compelled to eliminate every other Uchiha who might potentially be capable of reading the secrets of that tablet. I believe there is a message that this "influence" does not want revealed. My only evidence to back this up is simply the fact that neither Madara or Tobito went to view the final message with their Rinnegan. Why would they put so much effort into following the instructions this tablet provides then fail to view it's final secrets?
There are some factors that need to be considered. First, when Tobito made mention of the Kyuubi attack to Sasuke he readily admits to him his participation in the Uchiha massacre and his grudge against the Leaf.
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Tobito could have chosen to participate in the Uchiha massacre out of a sense of loyalty to Madara but it is doubtful given his recent exchanges. In fact, I believe that Tobito is under influences even he is unaware of that cause him to overlook things like his own eye still given to Kakashi.
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Omnipotent
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*Fist bumps*
Good Great work done here.
Good Great work done here.
shelke
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I have disagreements on the postulates of your theory:
- Tobirama's opinions are hogwash at best. I wouldn't consider the segregation or subjugation as something which he reverted to as the best course of action for the Uchiha. Both clans had shady pasts because of - both of us agreed in another thread - their prior status as mercenary or bounty hunter factions that continuously shed blood as long as someone ponied up the doe. This doesn't put any clan over the other in terms of 'moralities'. Let's not even go there.
His 'mental instability' justifications are border-line hilarious as all Uchihas were well- respected and immensely loved by the entire village, despite the fact that there were about 57 Sharingans - given Tobi and Danzo's stocks - at the time of the coup and yet, no one fell into the 'hate' rationalization he subjectively created. I wouldn't use any of his nutty rants as something substantial for the theory.
- The reason why Tobi eliminated the clan doesn't have anything to do with Madara. Given their recent exchanges, it's kind of Obvious the man never wanted to revive him. He was already planning to align Sasuke with his cause when Nagato was still around. Which means that he didn't come up with a plan B after Nagato betrayed them with his Tensai. He planned to sync Sasuke with the Mazo all along. Why didn't he revive Madara before sending Nagato off? Obito foresaw a lot of kinks in his plans, and he knew there might be set backs. So everything he accomplished was to meet his own ends, not Madara's.
- The reason why Obito helped slaughter the uchiha clan was because of eternal Tsukkuyomi itself. The genjutsu is an Uchiha clan genjutsu which would be most certainly cast with the said MS technique reflected at the moon, but it would attain the eternal status through Juubi's chakra. Now this process is hypothetical of me, but it makes sense as Obito planned for Sasuke to be synced with the Mazo. So possibily, an EMS user is required.
Regardless, being an uchiha jutsu makes it susceptible for others - Uchiha clan - with a Sharingan to break free of the genjutsu. Remember only 'Itachi's' Tsukuyomi is special as he himself said that 'his MS genjugsu is special and can only be broken by Sasuke and no one else', which means that the rest of Moon Genjutsus are weak before a fellow clan member. Obito doesn't want anyone to break free of the jutsu and jeopardize his plans. Hence the reason he eliminated the clan.
- I hardly doubt Danzo did anything to 'save' Konoha. If I am to flip your theory, it would make a lot of sense; he aided Obito - not Madara - to wipe out the Uchiha as both of them needed the spare sharingans. Don't you find it odd that Danzo only has a few compared to Obito who has them by the bucket, and he has never posed a question that where are the missing Sharingans? He graved robbed the clan and I highly doubt he would have been content with a few of them at his disposal. Both of them probably made a deal to share them amongst one another.
He already knew he had KA and would eliminate Madara - he obviously didn't know this guy wasn't him - when they met again. Everyone was happy. Henceforth, Danzo did everything including his manipulation of Itachi because he believed in Senju hold over the government and desired to permanently eradicate the clan to climb up from roots onto the leaf seat; something he coveted all his life.
Great theory though.
- Tobirama's opinions are hogwash at best. I wouldn't consider the segregation or subjugation as something which he reverted to as the best course of action for the Uchiha. Both clans had shady pasts because of - both of us agreed in another thread - their prior status as mercenary or bounty hunter factions that continuously shed blood as long as someone ponied up the doe. This doesn't put any clan over the other in terms of 'moralities'. Let's not even go there.
His 'mental instability' justifications are border-line hilarious as all Uchihas were well- respected and immensely loved by the entire village, despite the fact that there were about 57 Sharingans - given Tobi and Danzo's stocks - at the time of the coup and yet, no one fell into the 'hate' rationalization he subjectively created. I wouldn't use any of his nutty rants as something substantial for the theory.
- The reason why Tobi eliminated the clan doesn't have anything to do with Madara. Given their recent exchanges, it's kind of Obvious the man never wanted to revive him. He was already planning to align Sasuke with his cause when Nagato was still around. Which means that he didn't come up with a plan B after Nagato betrayed them with his Tensai. He planned to sync Sasuke with the Mazo all along. Why didn't he revive Madara before sending Nagato off? Obito foresaw a lot of kinks in his plans, and he knew there might be set backs. So everything he accomplished was to meet his own ends, not Madara's.
- The reason why Obito helped slaughter the uchiha clan was because of eternal Tsukkuyomi itself. The genjutsu is an Uchiha clan genjutsu which would be most certainly cast with the said MS technique reflected at the moon, but it would attain the eternal status through Juubi's chakra. Now this process is hypothetical of me, but it makes sense as Obito planned for Sasuke to be synced with the Mazo. So possibily, an EMS user is required.
Regardless, being an uchiha jutsu makes it susceptible for others - Uchiha clan - with a Sharingan to break free of the genjutsu. Remember only 'Itachi's' Tsukuyomi is special as he himself said that 'his MS genjugsu is special and can only be broken by Sasuke and no one else', which means that the rest of Moon Genjutsus are weak before a fellow clan member. Obito doesn't want anyone to break free of the jutsu and jeopardize his plans. Hence the reason he eliminated the clan.
- I hardly doubt Danzo did anything to 'save' Konoha. If I am to flip your theory, it would make a lot of sense; he aided Obito - not Madara - to wipe out the Uchiha as both of them needed the spare sharingans. Don't you find it odd that Danzo only has a few compared to Obito who has them by the bucket, and he has never posed a question that where are the missing Sharingans? He graved robbed the clan and I highly doubt he would have been content with a few of them at his disposal. Both of them probably made a deal to share them amongst one another.
He already knew he had KA and would eliminate Madara - he obviously didn't know this guy wasn't him - when they met again. Everyone was happy. Henceforth, Danzo did everything including his manipulation of Itachi because he believed in Senju hold over the government and desired to permanently eradicate the clan to climb up from roots onto the leaf seat; something he coveted all his life.
Great theory though.