Would be nice if you would have said Rinnegan not Rennigan that annoyed me...This is one of THEE threads that ive been keeping under my sleeve for a while and for various reasons didnt want to create it. What i will say though is, if you do not read the whole thread i guarantee you'd still be dumbfounded about the whole rennigan issue. Anyway i will be explaining;
The first question is what is Hashirama's abilities. I will not go through every technique yamato or anybody else has shown us because although his ability is very important to understand, the purpose isnt to show off his abilities.
- Hashirama's abilities
- What the EMS is and its purpose
- The final stage of the sharigan
- Similarities between the younger and older son, Hashirama and Madara and Naruto and Sasuke and more importantly why sasuke will get The rennigan
Ability to suppress jinchrucki;
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Ability to use 3 Elements;
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Ability to control the environment;
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Medic ninjutsu rivals Tsunade;
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Hashirama's life force. His genes not only grows zetsu but makes them stronger;
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Life force not only increases duration of izanagi, it also decreases the time duration of KA (Kotoamatsukami);
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Had a number of Tailed beasts under his control;
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He reeks of OP, doesnt he? xd. That isnt what this thread is about though. Now that we accustomed to Hashirama's abilities, the question is if you are a power hungry ninja that have fought him several times, wouldnt you want such abilities?, i know i do, but forget about me. Tobi talking as Madara, revealed that he fought to gain access to his many abilities. Now Tobi had no reason to lie and he didnt, because the real madara revealed exactly what Tobi said and yes Madara did fight to gain access to Hashirama's abilities;
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The manga has made it painfully clear how OP hashirama. The manga has made it painfully clear that madara is a power hungry bastard, but also fought to gain access to hashirama's many abilities. Even when he was brought back to life, he sounds like a character who's rivalry with Hashirama turned into a one sided crush wit him constantly talking about hashirama, but also so far he has depended on the abilities he stole. Clearly he very much likes hashirama's abilities, even saying he was the only one that could see through hashirama's mokouton clone. Dan said the only person who could defeat madara was hashirama. Hashirama's abilities was called a fairly tail. He was said to be stronger than madara. The manga has made it very clear that, at that time only Hashirama could stand up to madara;
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Im not sure about you but if senju dna is what is needed to activate the rennigan, i wouldnt go after the top dog of the senju. Id go after any other senju, defeat them and take their dna, after all its been clear that only hashirama could defeat him. Thats what im trying to say, senju dna isnt needed or else madara wouldve beaten any other senju and taken their dna. He wanted hashirama's abilities and thats why he fought to gain access to these abilities which the manga has made painfully clear. U_U
Next is what is the EMS and its purpose, well apart from stopping the blindness process, there are improvements that ive noticed from the ems. Basically we all know that its a combination of 2 ms's and when you look at both madara and sasuke's eyes you cann see izuna's and itachi's ms design in their eyes respectively.
Itachi;
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Sasuke's;
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EMS Sasuke;
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Izuna's;
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Madara's;
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EMS Madara;
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Being a combination of 2 ms's it increases the power of the users doujutsu techniques. For example ms sasuke's v1 susano was penetrated by A, yet A didnt even leave a mark on madara's v1 susano.
Sasuke's v1;
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Madara's v1;
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Next alot of people keep saying kishi has allowed sasuke to gain a huge chakra reserve or the ems gives the user a chakra boost and that is false. From what ive seen the ems allows the user to use its techniques with minimum chakra drainage. You can go as far as saying an ems user using its technique's drains little to no chakra no different to an uchiha using the sharigan in battle which again drains very little chakra. Sasuke could hardly maintain a v1 susano and just before he went blind activated a final susano. Yet with the ems he was able to activate its final form with ease. Similarly madara has been able to activate a further advanced susano with ease.
Madara;
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Sasuke;
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But it doesnt end there. The ems is a stepping stone to greater things. You can say the EMS = KM (naruto) and ill explain that later on. Anyway another misconception about the EMS, is that it stops the user's eye from bleeding. Personally im not sure where people get these misconceptions from but the manga has made it very clear that it doesnt;
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The greatest misconception of all is that an ems user gains a 4th technique. That my friends was a mistranslation from manga reader who are notorious for their mistranslations. This is the real translation;
You must be registered for see linksAs Itachi said, "The transplant gave birth to a completely new doujutsu". He didnt say the translate allowed the user to activate a 4th technique. That was a mistranslation. Ill come back to that page again and fully explain.
Anyway i did say that the EMS was a footstep to greater things and that the EMS = KM (Naruto). KM, naruto was a footstep to greater things and that was BM naruto;
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Now that we know that KM was a stepping stone to BM naruto and KM naruto was incomplete. The question is What is the stepping stone, the next stage of the EMS. The answer THE RENNIGAN
How do i know this?. How do you activate THE RENNIGAN, there you go;
Yes the EMS is a stepping stone to the rennigan and ill explain. This image speaks volumes alone. Ill cut it apart and further explain;
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In the first image the one above, Itachi was blantatly talking about the EMS when he said and i quote; "A permanent Mangekyou Sharingan!. By changing hosts the younger brothers eye found an inextinguishable light!". The Ems is what he is blatantly talking about.;
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Now im certain by now youve noticed that above the 4 sharigans there is something that looks very similar to the rennigan and ive clearly highlighted it in red. That my friends in the rennigan, notice how its above all 4 sharigans. Notice how itachi talks about the ems then above it we have something that looks like the rennigan. What i will say is that the 4 sharigans symbolises the EMS because 2 sharigans = 1 MS. 2MS = EMS, therefore 4 sharigans = EMS.
In the next image please, focus closely on Itachi's words. In the top image he was clearly talking about the EMS. He then went on to say in the next image and i quote " But that was only half the story. The transplant also gave birth to a completely new dojutsu;
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I know although itachi didnt say anything about the rennigan, its blatently obvious that this what he was hinting although he didnt say that. Now alot of people will say how does itachi know this, only madara activated the rennigan. But you see, forget the fact that itachi is extremely knowledgeable and focus on the uchiha tablet, that he read and told sasuke to read;
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Its this same tablet that contained the secret of madara's body;
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Now it seems like madara wrote the secrets of his body/rennigan on the uchiha monument stone after obtaining the rennigan, therefore although he can fully read the tablet because he has the rennigan, he would pass on some of the information of the rennigan that his descendants with the shairgan couldnt read.
I know that it was said that the higher your advance from the sharigan, ms, ems, rennigan the more you can read the tablet. Madara with the ems, read majority of the tablet, but obviously couldnt read it all because he didnt have the rennigan. This is the hypothesis that i believe he formed. The first one is how the sharigan overall works. We all know that in order for an uchiha to gain the sharigan, they must have a near death experience. We then found out that in order to get the ms somebody close to you must die. We then found that in order to get the ems you must take your siblings who has the ms and with that you have effectively killed them because they now have no eyes. In all the stages of the sharigan death is somehow related to achieving greater power, activating a higher doujutsu and this is why i believe madara fought hashirama. I believe apart from the fact that he also wanted his abilities, hashirama was the only person at that time who could awaken madara's rennigan. Only he could challenge madara and allow him to have a near death experience;
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Madara further clarifies that yes after having a near death experience, he activated the rennigan ;
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He said he awakened it shortly before his death, but the time duration between him activating it and dying isnt as short as he says. In that 'short' time he wrote the secrets of his body on the uchiha tablet and gave nagato the rennigan, which has been clarified by madara himself that, yes he did give nagato the rennigan to revive him later on.
The next question is how am i certain that the rennigan is the final stage of the sharigan. Not that difficulty really, the manga has not only bad it blatantly obvious, it has basically said it here "What awates you when you progress beyond the sharingan, is THE RENNIGAN;
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Never ever in the manga has it said that senju dna was needed and never ever did madara or kabuto say this. The manga has however not only made it undoubtedly clear, its even said it there and then. The rennigan is the natural evolution of the sharigan. The final stage of the sharingan
So how is sasuke going to get the rennigan. Well ive told explained to you that EMS= KM (Naruto) and that both EMS and KM are incomplete. Both are a stepping stone to greater things. Kishi has said that both naruto and sasuke grow as a pair. Lets be honest here, bm naruto would annihilate sasuke xd. This is how sasuke will get the rennigan, this is the link between naruto and sasuke and hashirama and madara;
Ems sasuke right now is the 2nd strongest ninja's alive right now (excluding madara (kabuto)). The only ninja excluding kabuto, that is above him is naruto. Excluding kabuto, the only ninja alive that could stand up to sasuke is naruto (I hope you guys are noticing the similarities between naruto and sasuke and hahsirama and madara - history is repeating itself).
Now ill show you the outstanding similarities between the 3 generations (older son and younger son, hahsirama and madara and naruto and sasuke. The older son was said to have gained the sage's 'eyes' and powerful chakra. Whilst the younger son was said to have gained the sage's body and life force;
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In you look carefully, which two looks complete?. Its very clear that the younger son was more complete than the older son. Although the older son got the sages 'eyes' we can all see that it looks like a weaker rennigan, whilst the younger brother seem to have gotten everything that was given to him, the older brother didnt.
Thats the same with hashirama and madara. Hashirama represents the younger brother (descendent obviously). Hashirama was complete, whilst madara (descendent) wasnt, he still had the EMS which you could say represents the older brothers eyes. Also notice hashirama's life force, that i uploaded a while ago. Able to increase the duration of izanagi, grow and make zetsu stronger and decrease the time duration of KA.
History has again repeated itself. Naruto is now the younger brother (descendent obviously, albeit an uzumaki) whilst sasuke is the older son (descendent). Sasuke like the older son and madara, are incomplete. They might have have the sage's eyes, but they do not have the rennigan (just yet anyway). Naruto, like the younger son and hashirama are more complete, but also naruto has followed this step and showed us the life force of the younger son, no different to hashirama's life force;
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So whilst the older son and his generation have always been incomplete, the younger son have, but this is where it gets interesting. I believe after years of fighting, after a final battle, the older son experienced a near death moment which allowed him to activate the rennigan and become complete, just like the younger son.
No different to how after years of fighting, after a final battle madara after experiencing a near death moment activated the rennigan.
History will no doubt repeat itself, this time in naruto and sasuke. After a final battle, sasuke the older brother (funny enough sasuke is also older than naruto by a couple of weeks), will awaken the final stage of the sharigan after facing a near death experience. This has not only been set in stone, the fight in part 1 was for telling of things to come. Its naruto, that funny enough caused sasuke to activate the final stage of the sharigan which was his 3rd and final tomoe, at the same location did hashirama cause madara to awaken the final, final stage of the sharigan which is the rennigan;
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Naruto will cause sasuke again to awaken the final stage of the sharigan. This time not a the 3 tomoe sharigan, but the final stage of the sharigan. THE RENNIGAN
That ^^^^, my friends is the secret behind everything and im out :izuna:
Edit: I thought it was clear that madara gave nagato the rennigan, but since people arent sure, ive added this to the OP.
Nagato's rennigan was transplanted;
Its been brought to my attention that all this time ive been spelling Rinnegan wrong :sy:.
Anyway alot of people are asking about nagato. How he isnt either uchiha or senju. I thought it was clear therefore i didnt explain his scenario, but since it isnt ill explain it.
First of all nagato didnt activate the rennigan, it was given to him by madara. How do i know this. Firstly Tobi speaking as madara said it here;
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He speaking as madara prior to his fight with konan said that nagato was supposed to use rin tensei for him;
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So basically tobi talking as madara said that he gave nagato the rennigan, but also nagato was supposed to use rin tensei for him.
Now madara has clarified what tobi says. When madara first came out,the first person's name he said was nagato. He then said that it would appear that nagato had grown. This speak volumes. Madara gave nagato the rennigan, so that nagato would revive him later on, and thats exactly what tobi has said;
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Secondly how do i know that nagato's rennigan is transplanted. Well firstly because nagato didnt activate the rennigan. When nagato was a child, his hair had always covered his eyes. We never got to see his eyes, until when he beat that rock chunnin, during his training with jiraiya, did we see that he had the rennigan. He always had the rennigan, but didnt show it until the rock chunnin scenario.
The next issue is why did madara give nagato the rennigan and i believe the kakashi and danzo scenario says it all. We know that if a non uchiha gains their eyes, because they do not have the body if they allow the sharigan to remain viisble it completely drains their chakra and thats why both kakashi and danzo have their sharigan eyes covered, to reduce the chakra drained.Also the rule with implanted dojutsu is still consistent if the member isnt an uchiha. For example, have you ever seen nagato turn off the rennigan?. Have you ever seen nagato do this;
Sharingan;
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Ems;
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Rennigan;
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The fact that nagato cannot revert back and fort from the rennigan should tell you that it was transplanted. It a doujutsu has been transplanted and at the moment its transplanted it had the rennigan activated, thats the eye that would be transplanted and remain. No different to how the sharigan was at the time of transplant was activated therefore, thats what the receiver of the eye gets. This is constant with kakashi. At the time of of his transplant obito's eye was the sharigan therefore thats what remained consistent and kakashi cannot deactivate the sharigan no different to how nagato cannot deactivate the rennigan.
Nagato on the underhand doesnt seem to have this problem because he is an uzumaki. Nagato has the powerful chakra that you could say rivals an uchiha for his rennigan eye to stay constant and not drain his chakra like kakashi and danzo who cover their sharigan. Basically here.
Kushina's powerful chakra;
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Nagato's powerful chakra;
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Thats what im saying. Madara gave the rennigan to someone with powerful chakra, because that is what is needed for such a doujutsu like the rennigan. If kakashi had the rennigan, id guarantee he'd run out of chakra in a minute xd.
Also note that madara has also been said to have very powerful chakra, even for uchiha standards;
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This was first said by kurama, who also compared sasuke's chakra to madara's;
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So basically madara gave nagato the rennigan because nagato like himself (madara), had powerful chakra, chakra powerful enough to withstand the rennigan
The Rennigan DOESNT require Senju DNA!!!
- Thread starter Blaze Release
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datbasianboy
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Sooo your saying that what tobi said is what the real Madara said? and wat tobi said he did himself is what the real Madara did?
But even if an Uchiha can gain Rinnegan by evolving the Sharingan - Could it be that to have it naturally when you're born, you got to have both Senju and Uchiha dna? Because Nagato's mom was, I'm pretty sure, Uzumaki, while his dad could have had Uchiha blood
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ChiefHermit
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This^^^. .
exactly, what gets me are the following.
1)I'm laughing my ass off when I read "Tobi said" It really holds no validity at this point.
2)Never did madara use the words "Hashirama/Senju" and "DNA/cells" in the same sentence ANYWHERE in the damn manga when describing rinnegan.
3) I like posting my arguments in threes so....Hurderp?
Kniveswood
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Ultimatevirus
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UchihaxSenju
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naruttebayo
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idk if senju DNA is required or not , but i really want sasuke to have rinnegan cuz right now he is so weak , absolutely no mach for naruto .
chickmagnet
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this is the first time ive read somethin you wrote i didnt completely read it all but i got what you sayin you get a rep
SageMinato
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Madara didn't get hashirama DNA until after he died, hence kabuto telling him that he and orochimaru progressed him better than that of him in his prime. Orochimaru put hashirama cells in him. Or you think he got that face on his chest from the fight with hashirama. You dont need senju DNA for the rinnegan, its the last step in the sharingan progression:scorps:
quinaboy13
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I'm back!
I know I'm probably annoying you but you've really got me thinking about this theory.I guess I should start by saying that after going back over some manga chapters you've got me convinced that unlocking the Rinnegan doesn't need Senju DNA. I'm also convinced that Madara gave Nagato the Rinnegan. But I think there is a deeper reason as to why Madara specifically wanted an Uzumaki/Senju relative. I think that certain powers of the Rinnegan can only be used by someone who possesses the body (Youngest Son's/Senju DNA).
But anyway, I think the reason Madara needed an Uzumaki is not because they have powerful chakra but because the "creation of all things" type of techniques, such as the moon thing and bringing back the dead, can only be used by a Rinnegan user with Senju blood. I think A Uchiha who's unlocked the Rinnegan can only use the path techniques and whatever other techniques we don't know about+their EMS stuff. Because if it were simply about having a lot of chakra, to be honest Madara could've gotten Tobi to revive him easily, as Tobi obviously has enough chakra for Rinnegan.
To me that makes perfect since if bringing people back to life requires Rinnegan+strong Senju blood. I think Tobi was originally going to use Harishima's cells to enhance Nagato's powers to Sage status and use his Rinnegan to fully revive Madara when the time was right. Since Tobi wasn't of Senju blood, he couldn't use the same types of Rinnegan powers as Nagato had. I think having the blood is more important, and just having Harishima's cells will only get you so far. This also in a way explains why Nagato couldn't use Sharingan abilities, but could use Uchiha+Rinnegan abilities. I think because Nagato wasn't of Uchiha bloodline, he couldn't tap into those Sharingan abilities as easily. So it's kind of like he had to use the powers "as is", which is why he could only use the Rinnegan abilities. Like how Itachi said the Rinnegan is a completly new technique, Nagato could only use the technique that was implanted in him at the time. He can't use the separtate EMS moves like Susano or anything. So he got the Uchiha+Rinnegan moves (6 paths) plus since he's Uzumaki he got the Senju+Rinnegan moves too(bringing back the dead, moon thing)
So in essence, I think the Rinnegan is something only a Uchiha can unlock, but certain abilities are off limits to them. And the goal was to eventually revive Madara, and that's why he wanted an Uzumaki, because you need enough of their DNA to use the Rinnegan's ability to bring back the dead. What do you think about that?
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DeathByHugs
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true enigma
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