I'm going to compromise with you. Danzo's izanagi was incomplete because he could not control hashirama's cells (evidenced by the fact that he was nearly taken over when he was out of chakra) He still had the chakra which meant that he could use it. If anyone can use izanagi then the uchiha massacre would have been an itachi massacre. (I already know you're gonna say it's forbidden, but so is the multi shadow clone jutsu, and the imperfect rasen shuriken, but those are used by anyone who wants to anyway) And if, according to nearly everyone on this thread, uchiha can obtain senju dna from any senju that was alive throughout the ninja wars when the uchiha and senju would fight almost exclusively, then it's reasonable to say that there were quite a few in history. HOWEVER, i'm offering to you that neither of us is right and we will wait for another manga chapter where someone without senju dna uses izanagi (not izanami. Just because something is paired doesn't mean it's exactly the same.) This argument is over. -Blaze Release, im sorry all of these arguments have gotten out of hand on your thread. I believe it's possible to get the rinnegan without senju dna as i stated before, but i would prefer to wait until the exact progression is revealed to close the file on it completely.
Ok sounds good to me. I always love to discuss stuff like this in Naruto . I still believe Senju DNA is not required for Izanagi and you believe it is required.
One thing I do need to add though. Izanami is apparently a pair with Izanagi and just like Izanagi the sharingan eye will lose it's light forever if Izanami is used. That's two Uchiha eye techniques one that alters destiny and one that decides destiny. I just find it hard to believe that one of them would require senju DNA and the other wouldn't. That's my basis for my opinion on this issue anyway.
Ok sounds good to me. I always love to discuss stuff like this in Naruto . I still believe Senju DNA is not required for Izanagi and you believe it is required.
One thing I do need to add though. Izanami is apparently a pair with Izanagi and just like Izanagi the sharingan eye will lose it's light forever if Izanami is used. That's two Uchiha eye techniques one that alters destiny and one that decides destiny. I just find it hard to believe that one of them would require senju DNA and the other wouldn't. That's my basis for my opinion on this issue anyway.
I agree with that on the basis that nobody knows what the F**K izanami does or is about at all! Haha. I like you. I don't think anybody else would even slightly agree to a compromise. I once debated this guy that Minato could not beat the SO6P, but he refused to believe me or even acknowledge any argument. :sy:
P.S. Sorry if you ever thought i was a douche, i get super defensive on any issue until they show me evidence that completely shuts down my arguement. Haha.
I never thought you were a douche, i thought that you were just arguing a point the same as I was. I've had many discussions such as this on forums and yea it's unlikely for people to ever compromise, usually it just turns into a flame thread haha.
Firstly; Hashirama is supposed to be overpowered, Your'e right you dont need "senju" dna BUT you dooo need dna from both sides (older borther, younger brother) to gain the rinnengan
Nagato IS an Uzimaki and the Uzimaki are decendants of the younger brother like the senju (like cousins). In some way Tobi gave young nagato uchiha dna or a sharingan which gave him the rinnengan.
Then why did danzo need hashirama's dna. Why did tobi need hashirama's dna, and why did madara take hashirama's dna. Why couldn't they just kill some 11 year old kid if anyone would have worked?
Databook, when was such a technique updated in the databook.
Also Tsunade seems to know about her grandfathers abilities;
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. As for Tsunade being born long after hashirama died, im not certain about that because her bf dan, basically knew enough of hashirama and madara. Anyway lets not get off target
I know I'm coming in late to this but. don't you guys remember there was a flashback in the manga and anime where tsunade was atop her grandfathers shoulder as a young child.
Firstly; Hashirama is supposed to be overpowered, Your'e right you dont need "senju" dna BUT you dooo need dna from both sides (older borther, younger brother) to gain the rinnengan
Nagato IS an Uzimaki and the Uzimaki are decendants of the younger brother like the senju (like cousins). In some way Tobi gave young nagato uchiha dna or a sharingan which gave him the rinnengan.
yes but u still didnt explain about the new dojutsu of ems cause even in your translation and even in the official translation from volume 43 of naruto it is clearly stated that a new jutsu is born...
Lets see Madara combines Uchiha and Senju DNA to make SO6P DNA, Tobi adds Senju and Uchiha DNA to created SO6P DNA , Kabuto adds the different blood to get a stronger DNA including Uzumaki DNA. The Hole series has ben set up to combine people DNA to power up, yet people are in denial over the subject like some type of Racist who keeps expounding over His pure blood, as if their was such a thing. No Senju and Uchiha DNA has missing pieces in it that combining them fills in the holes.
]Its been brought to my attention that all this time ive been spelling Rinnegan wrong :sy:.
Anyway alot of people are asking about nagato. How he isnt either uchiha or senju. I thought it was clear therefore i didnt explain his scenario, but since it isnt ill explain it.
First of all nagato didnt activate the rennigan, it was given to him by madara. How do i know this. Firstly Tobi speaking as madara said it here;
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He speaking as madara prior to his fight with konan said that nagato was supposed to use rin tensei for him;
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So basically tobi talking as madara said that he gave nagato the rennigan, but also nagato was supposed to use rin tensei for him.
Now madara has clarified what tobi says. When madara first came out,the first person's name he said was nagato. He then said that it would appear that nagato had grown. This speak volumes. Madara gave nagato the rennigan, so that nagato would revive him later on, and thats exactly what tobi has said;
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Secondly how do i know that nagato's rennigan is transplanted. Well firstly because nagato didnt activate the rennigan. When nagato was a child, his hair had always covered his eyes. We never got to see his eyes, until when he beat that rock chunnin, during his training with jiraiya, did we see that he had the rennigan. He always had the rennigan, but didnt show it until the rock chunnin scenario.
Also the rule with implanted dojutsu is still consistent if the member isnt an uchiha. For example, have you ever seen nagato turn off the rennigan?. Have you ever seen nagato do this;
Sharingan;
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Ems;
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Rennigan;
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The fact that nagato cannot revert back and fort from the rennigan should tell you that it was transplanted. It a doujutsu has been transplanted and at the moment its transplanted it had the rennigan activated, thats the eye that would be transplanted and remain. No different to how the sharigan was at the time of transplant was activated therefore, thats what the receiver of the eye gets. This is constant with kakashi. At the time of of his transplant obito's eye was the sharigan therefore thats what remained consistent and kakashi cannot deactivate the sharigan no different to how nagato cannot deactivate the rennigan.
The next issue is why did madara give nagato the rennigan and i believe the kakashi and danzo scenario says it all. We know that if a non uchiha gains their eyes, because they do not have the body if they allow the sharigan to remain viisble it completely drains their chakra and thats why both kakashi and danzo have their sharigan eyes covered, to reduce the chakra drained.
Nagato on the underhand doesnt seem to have this problem because he is an uzumaki. Nagato has the powerful chakra that you could say rivals an uchiha for his rennigan eye to stay constant and not drain his chakra like kakashi and danzo who cover their sharigan. Basically here. Kushina's powerful chakra;
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Nagato's powerful chakra;
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Thats what im saying. Madara gave the rennigan to someone with powerful chakra, because that is what is needed for such a doujutsu like the rennigan. If kakashi had the rennigan, id guarantee he'd run out of chakra in a minute xd.
Also note that madara has also been said to have very powerful chakra, even for uchiha standards;
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This was first said by kurama, who also compared sasuke's chakra to madara's;
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So basically madara gave nagato the rennigan because nagato like himself (madara), had powerful chakra, chakra powerful enough to withstand the rennigan[/SPOILER]
]Its been brought to my attention that all this time ive been spelling Rinnegan wrong :sy:.
Anyway alot of people are asking about nagato. How he isnt either uchiha or senju. I thought it was clear therefore i didnt explain his scenario, but since it isnt ill explain it.
First of all nagato didnt activate the rennigan, it was given to him by madara. How do i know this. Firstly Tobi speaking as madara said it here;
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He speaking as madara prior to his fight with konan said that nagato was supposed to use rin tensei for him;
You must be registered for see images
So basically tobi talking as madara said that he gave nagato the rennigan, but also nagato was supposed to use rin tensei for him.
Now madara has clarified what tobi says. When madara first came out,the first person's name he said was nagato. He then said that it would appear that nagato had grown. This speak volumes. Madara gave nagato the rennigan, so that nagato would revive him later on, and thats exactly what tobi has said;
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Secondly how do i know that nagato's rennigan is transplanted. Well firstly because nagato didnt activate the rennigan. When nagato was a child, his hair had always covered his eyes. We never got to see his eyes, until when he beat that rock chunnin, during his training with jiraiya, did we see that he had the rennigan. He always had the rennigan, but didnt show it until the rock chunnin scenario.
Also the rule with implanted dojutsu is still consistent if the member isnt an uchiha. For example, have you ever seen nagato turn off the rennigan?. Have you ever seen nagato do this;
Sharingan;
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Ems;
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Rennigan;
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The fact that nagato cannot revert back and fort from the rennigan should tell you that it was transplanted. It a doujutsu has been transplanted and at the moment its transplanted it had the rennigan activated, thats the eye that would be transplanted and remain. No different to how the sharigan was at the time of transplant was activated therefore, thats what the receiver of the eye gets. This is constant with kakashi. At the time of of his transplant obito's eye was the sharigan therefore thats what remained consistent and kakashi cannot deactivate the sharigan no different to how nagato cannot deactivate the rennigan.
The next issue is why did madara give nagato the rennigan and i believe the kakashi and danzo scenario says it all. We know that if a non uchiha gains their eyes, because they do not have the body if they allow the sharigan to remain viisble it completely drains their chakra and thats why both kakashi and danzo have their sharigan eyes covered, to reduce the chakra drained.
Nagato on the underhand doesnt seem to have this problem because he is an uzumaki. Nagato has the powerful chakra that you could say rivals an uchiha for his rennigan eye to stay constant and not drain his chakra like kakashi and danzo who cover their sharigan. Basically here. Kushina's powerful chakra;
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Nagato's powerful chakra;
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Thats what im saying. Madara gave the rennigan to someone with powerful chakra, because that is what is needed for such a doujutsu like the rennigan. If kakashi had the rennigan, id guarantee he'd run out of chakra in a minute xd.
Also note that madara has also been said to have very powerful chakra, even for uchiha standards;
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This was first said by kurama, who also compared sasuke's chakra to madara's;
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So basically madara gave nagato the rennigan because nagato like himself (madara), had powerful chakra, chakra powerful enough to withstand the rennigan[/SPOILER]
I swear nagato was an uzamaki? I like the theory it does make sense that renni is obtainable without the so6p/senju dna. But there's one thing bugging me, if near death experiences cause the rennighan then how comes itachi doesn't have it when he's revived?
I suppose the argument against that would be it comes in stages so as itachi didn't have ems he couldn't progress to the next stage where as madara did. Neither is confirmed however
I swear nagato was an uzamaki? I like the theory it does make sense that renni is obtainable without the so6p/senju dna. But there's one thing bugging me, if near death experiences cause the rennighan then how comes itachi doesn't have it when he's revived?
I suppose the argument against that would be it comes in stages so as itachi didn't have ems he couldn't progress to the next stage where as madara did. Neither is confirmed however
I kind of thought about the same thing with Itachi, but then I realized he didn't have an EMS and he also didn't have a near death experience.. He actually died and I don't believe that counts. Just a thought :shrug:
How do you not understand i'm not talking about itachi, There are 3 different sources that state that izanagi requires senju dna and we don't know ANYTHING about izanami. Clearly you don't need senju dna for izanami, but for izanagi you do. Easy as that.
And just to clear it up for you AGAIN.
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Any speculation that izanagi doesn't require senju dna is simply a theory, and while it can be argued with slim points from the manga, the manga supports this 95% until we know who tobi truly is. (Edited after reading Blaze Releases other threads which neither prove or disprove either point) So i'm giving you a compromise; we wait and see who madara is or wait for it to be specifically stated in the manga that the techniques do not require senju dna. I'm being awfully generous here.
And actually, rereading this manga page just added to my thought that you do need senju dna for the rinnegan, seeing as how konan exclaims that having senju and uchiha dna is the "power of the six paths." Since Madara had implanted senju dna after his fight with the first, he had both uchiha and senju dna, and since nagato is an uzumaki he has traces of senju dna, and if the eyes were implanted in him by madara or tobi then that provides the uchiha dna needed to use the rinnegan.
I pointed out Itachi's use of the techniques to prove you do not need Senju DNA to use them. He clearly said that Izanami couldn't be used without Izanagi, because they were a pair. That means Itachi can perform Izanagi. Do you understand what I'm pointing out there? It's pretty clear. And Itachi has no Senju DNA in him.
Tobi, Danzo and Nagato don't count in this argument. Only Uchiha's who naturally progressed to the Rinnegan. That is only Madara Uchiha. He never uses the terms "implanted Hashirama's DNA." He says that he fought him to acquire his powers and that at the end of the fight he didn't actually die. That is why Blaze Release stated that a near death experience possibly activates the Rinnegan in an Uchiha with an EMS. So until we see Sasuke unlock his, then we won't know for sure.
Also, just a side note. This is a forum where I can say whatever the hell I want. Your "generosity" is not needed. You have no power over anyone here. :shrug:
. I still believe Senju DNA is not required for Izanagi and you believe it is required. 
