[Discussion] The "Relic" that is Doflamingo (power discussion)

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

This site seems to be dying out however, amonst one of the threads I read that Jinbe is now considered Doflamingo's level but also is weaker then Oven (who I am guessing is also considered Doffy level). That through me for loop lol, I know people are bored on here but really? is this what his power is compared to now lol?

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I mean I know he was the first person to go up against gear 4th (btw I do not see neither jinbe or oven combating it in an affective way) but damn.

Ok, enough, time to getting back on topic. I find it interesting that Doffy (who had his shine in the manga 2 years ago) is still in my opinion the most confusing character in terms of power scaling. During the whole cake arc everytime Luffy faced someone people would go on this website and compare them to Doffy (or in the case of smoothie introduced). Cracker Kakatari smoothie (hell even jinbe and oven lol) have been compared to him. I also find it interesting that no one ever compared them to each other or even other fellow yonko commanders (except with the dog tooth train started with marco).

Honestly he is confusing for a couple of reasons
1. When dofflamingo got hit with KKG the birdcage disappeared yet the strings that was holding his organs together did not. I never got that myself I just assumed it was a plot hole and that Doffy should have died (but I believe he will come back but will get back to that later). We could go into stats however do not feel like it.

2. The whole bird cage thing in General. the move scaling wise is one of the strongest moves to date. It held back 1000's of pirates and x amount of citizens. It was easily pushing back both zoro and barto barrier, and held back Fujitora (not to mention king punch man etc) all at once. Without him even focusing on it. Now while we do not know what it takes (in terms of energy/resources) to create bird cage but obviously it has to cost something for it to be used.

3. The time of his fight as compared to others. Not really going to touch to much into this one. Doffy and luffy were actually fighting. With cracker he was eating and hiding majority of the time. With Dog Tooth he was a punching back for majroity of the fight however the time frame for the fight was way more impressive then doffy's.

4. Gamma Knife. We still to this day do not know exactly what damage did it to Doffy except greatly damage him. Regardless when you couple that with the amount of times gear 4th luffy punched him in the abdomien it all adds up (I also would like to note that we still do not know what injection shot does either)


And others but enough with that now I will give you my personal opinion of Doflamingo's Power.

When it comes to pirates power leveling can be confusing due to bounties. This is more so the case due to Doflamingo's bounty being frozen for 10+ years. I personally believe that Doflamingo is Yonko Commander First Mate Level. Heres Why:

Overall Power: This man has 2 forms of haki and awakening. The only person that we know surpasses him in this is Dogtooth because he has 3. Doflamingo was never shown using observation.

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Influence/infamy: Doflamingo out of everyone in the series was the one to "get around". The man is a former Celestrial Dragon, the former king of dressrosa, and the King of the underworld as the alias Joker.

King Kong Gun: regardless of how you view the fights that luffy had with Doffy Dogtooth and Cracker it stil goes to show that Doflamingo took Luffy's strongest hit (and way more hits from gear 4th then kakatari and cracker) to date.

Anime style: more so Luffy vs Katakuri and Luffy vs Doflamingo. The art style and effort looks the same.
kong gun

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both getting hit in the face

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both defeats

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The art styles are too similar. I believe that Oda in a subtle way was letting us know that the two characters are similar and that thier defeat would be similar. You could say that because luffy used snake man (and didnt use it against doffy) that would make katakuri signficantly over doffy but please rememeber that Luffy was alone him whereas against doffy he had law (who brings way more to the table than snake man alone)

Portrayal showing in the war: Yes I am talking about Jozu. IDC what anyone says about Doffy sneak attacking, it does not matter its a war and he is trying to save his brother he should have been more aware. Not to mention Doflamingo made him his foot stool for a whole (while short) conversation between him and Crocodile. It was very specfic, it made sure that it made Doffy look good without hurting Jozu too much (in other words Jozu did not get damaged but being used as a chair is not a good look). Also ps: if anybody who watches Dragon Ball Super would know from Andriod # 17 how fetal it is to have someone sneak up from behind you

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His relationship with Kaido: This to me is the most important in why I believe Doflamingo is this level. Early on there was a picture released about Kaido and his calamaties (queen king jack etc). Doflamingo's alias is Joker, the joker card is amongst the royals, so through the titles it seems as if oda is literally hinting that. However Jokers are often left out of card games and if they are inside of them they are usually one of the best cards to have. It is similar to Doflamingos relationship with Kaido. On paper and in general Doflamingo has never been looked at as part of Kaido's crew, however he is the sole reason as to why it is so powerful in the first place (smile). Kaido got smile from Doflamingo but I am curious as to what did Doffy get from kaido, because there is no way that he did not just magically came in contact with Kaido it was for a reason. Lastly Kaido seems to be a idc sort of character. So why send one of his strongest members after a person who is being imprisioned, he did not send anyone to fetch ceasar (the creator of smile) but Doffy..


But yeah thats it I also believe he will come back because of the wano arc (flash backs) and also I can totally see luffy having to save his crew mate from impel down and we get a part 2 of it. He also knows the secret to marejolies (maybe something that Luffy needs) so there is that.

[video=youtube;-Fxtgg6tIiY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fxtgg6tIiY[/video]

 

[chopstickchakra]

No, Oven is not above Doffy and I don't know that Jinbei really is either. Jinbei now being a SH means he's more likely to progress past Doffy than he was when he was just a friend but at this moment idk we can say he's definitively above or below Doffy.

People have always seemed to like to try and downplay Doffy here. He's always brought up though because until Kata Doffy's been the toughest Opponent Luffy's faced in an actual fight. I don't really see anything that would disprove the idea that he's comparable to first mates, I think first mates may edge him out in a fight but he'd give them a good fight, I'd say somewhere above most 2nd mates like Cracker or Jozu but below first mates like Kata and Marco.

 

[Passerby]

Snake Man would have finished off Foddermingo faster than Bound Man.
Foddermingo was not worthy of Luffy's Snake.

 

[Punk Hazard]

No, Oven is not above Doffy and I don't know that Jinbei really is either. Jinbei now being a SH means he's more likely to progress past Doffy than he was when he was just a friend but at this moment idk we can say he's definitively above or below Doffy.

People have always seemed to like to try and downplay Doffy here. He's always brought up though because until Kata Doffy's been the toughest Opponent Luffy's faced in an actual fight. I don't really see anything that would disprove the idea that he's comparable to first mates, I think first mates may edge him out in a fight but he'd give them a good fight, I'd say somewhere above most 2nd mates like Cracker or Jozu but below first mates like Kata and Marco.

Thing is, Doflamingo has a good chance of beating Katakuri. We saw from his fight with Luffy that the main reason he lost is because Luffy has monster endurance and was able to win by just taking the massive beating from Katakuri's superior power and landing a few major blows while enduring it. Doffy has monster durability and endurance in spades, so he'd be able to do the same thing.

 

[kiiro]

It looks like, from the speech, that he was the one controlling everything so no one will start to attack each other, but when is capture, then all what he was controlling comes down therefore everyone would go on rampage to sit on the throne.

He is a great character, I believe he is very strong and stronger than Katakuri in muy opinion.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Jinbei is way stronger than Oven and nobody should think that he would stand a chance, he stalemated Ace for crying out line.
People believe that Dofy is in the same tier as Jinbei not that JInbei is as strong as Dofy. We really don't know for sure.

However one important thing you should know is that Dofy is nowhere near Dogtooth's level. They have no business being in the same room with each other and I know a few logical people who would try to use their little two sense to argue otherwise. Besides that person it is universally known that Dogtooth is like many levels above Doffy.

Jinbei is shichibaku level along the likes of Ace, Snack, Doflamingo, Cracker, smoothie, and possibly Jack.

 

[Punk Hazard]

he stalemated Ace for crying out line.

What is this supposed to actually mean? He stalemated a rookie Ace. And? Ace at his best doesn't even have feats to suggest he can hang with Luffy when he was at Dressrosa or Sabo, and his showing compared to top tiers and post-skip feats are severely lacking. And Jinbei is supposed to be impressive for stalemating an even weaker version that was a rookie?

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

Snake Man would have finished off Foddermingo faster than Bound Man.
Foddermingo was not worthy of Luffy's Snake.

Lol not even take out law and lets see him use gear 4th twice and then have to go snake man

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

Jinbei is way stronger than Oven and nobody should think that he would stand a chance, he stalemated Ace for crying out line.
People believe that Dofy is in the same tier as Jinbei not that JInbei is as strong as Dofy. We really don't know for sure.

However one important thing you should know is that Dofy is nowhere near Dogtooth's level. They have no business being in the same room with each other and I know a few logical people who would try to use their little two sense to argue otherwise. Besides that person it is universally known that Dogtooth is like many levels above Doffy.

Jinbei is shichibaku level along the likes of Ace, Snack, Doflamingo, Cracker, smoothie, and possibly Jack.

Ok not trying to be mean but are you serious (referring to last sentence everything else was fine) everyone whom you mentioned is a yonko commander.... katakuri is a yonko commander himself but he is the first mate which from my post I was saying the same for doffy (in terms of strength + influence)

 

[Big Mom]

What is this supposed to actually mean? He stalemated a rookie Ace. And? Ace at his best doesn't even have feats to suggest he can hang with Luffy when he was at Dressrosa or Sabo, and his showing compared to top tiers and post-skip feats are severely lacking. And Jinbei is supposed to be impressive for stalemating an even weaker version that was a rookie?

Ace shooting fire bullets is still one of the coolest things I've seen in op. Haha

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Ok not trying to be mean but are you serious (referring to last sentence everything else was fine) everyone whom you mentioned is a yonko commander....

Yes, Doflamingo is on the same level with those top level yonkou commander. In other words shichibaku. There's a set hierarchy between these characters but Dofy is up there with the likes of Cracker.

katakuri is a yonko commander himself but he is the first mate which from my post I was saying the same for doffy (in terms of strength + influence)

Dogtooth is the fistmate and the second strongest after the Yonkou, you cannot compare him to the likes of Dogtooth to the rest of the family such as Cracker so Doflamingo doesn't differ.

-In terms of influence Dogtooth was a man that never lost yet he achieved a bounty that is over a billion. Of course Doflamingo's influence couldn't compare to someone of that standard.

-In terms of strength the difference between the two is as night as to day. You're talking about a guy who pummeled Gear 4 Luffy

Spoiler

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In comparison to a guy who survived the pummeling of Gear 4 until the time limit. The when Luffy approached Dogtooth, he needed to fight to reach up to his level and his Dogtooth even with Snakeman. It was a long drown out fight to the point that both of them were completely finished with their power but Luffy won because he remained conscious after they both collapsed for 7 minutes.
With Dofy that's not the case and he didn't need to resort to Snakeman.

Also Dogtooth's observation haki is superior and his Block mochi haki is on par with G4 Luffy, can't say the same for Doffy. My point is that Yonkou Firstmates are on a class of their own.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yes, Doflamingo is on the same level with those top level yonkou commander. In other words shichibaku. There's a set hierarchy between these characters but Dofy is up there with the likes of Cracker.


Dogtooth is the fistmate and the second strongest after the Yonkou, you cannot compare him to the likes of Dogtooth to the rest of the family such as Cracker so Doflamingo doesn't differ.

-In terms of influence Dogtooth was a man that never lost yet he achieved a bounty that is over a billion. Of course Doflamingo's influence couldn't compare to someone of that standard.

-In terms of strength the difference between the two is as night as to day. You're talking about a guy who pummeled Gear 4 Luffy

Spoiler

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In comparison to a guy who survived the pummeling of Gear 4 until the time limit. The when Luffy approached Dogtooth, he needed to fight to reach up to his level and his Dogtooth even with Snakeman. It was a long drown out fight to the point that both of them were completely finished with their power but Luffy won because he remained conscious after they both collapsed for 7 minutes.
With Dofy that's not the case and he didn't need to resort to Snakeman.

Also Dogtooth's observation haki is superior and his Block mochi haki is on par with G4 Luffy, can't say the same for Doffy. My point is that Yonkou Firstmates are on a class of their own.

You have a severe lacking of the concept of a battle being determined by multiple facets. You point out that Katakuri has superior power to Doflamingo, being able to attack Gear Fourth with power that Doffy could not, and you're banking on this to mean that Katakuri defeats Doflamingo.

Yet, Katakuri lost to Luffy in spite of having far greater attack power than Luffy. Your argument is demonstrated to be faulty by the very fight you're trying to use to support it. You say that Luffy didn't resort to Snake Man against Doflamingo, but that's not the case. He COULDN'T use Snake Man against Doflamingo because Luffy needed something that was power-based over being speed-based.

That was the edge Boundman had on Doffy: Power, not speed. Luffy vs Katakuri was the opposite situation: He needed something that was speed-based, not power-based, because Katakuri would use future sight and his pseudo-Logia powers to dodge things that weren't fast enough.

Luffy won against Katakuri because he had the endurance to, despite Katakuri having overwhelming power. The same quality that led to Doflamingo beating Luffy despite Luffy having overwhelming power. At the end of the day, your argument falls apart because a fight isn't just determined by "Who hits harder?" Being superior enough in ONE stat, like Doffy is to Katakuri in endurance, is enough to sway a fight.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

What is this supposed to actually mean? He stalemated a rookie Ace. And? Ace at his best doesn't even have feats to suggest he can hang with Luffy when he was at Dressrosa or Sabo, and his showing compared to top tiers and post-skip feats are severely lacking. And Jinbei is supposed to be impressive for stalemating an even weaker version that was a rookie?

He's probably one of those people that thinks that Ace was WB's 2nd strongest subordinate just because he's the 2nd division commander, even though it's very obvious that division numbers don't matter in OP.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Thing is, Doflamingo has a good chance of beating Katakuri. We saw from his fight with Luffy that the main reason he lost is because Luffy has monster endurance and was able to win by just taking the massive beating from Katakuri's superior power and landing a few major blows while enduring it. Doffy has monster durability and endurance in spades, so he'd be able to do the same thing.

Possibly, I said he'd give 1st commanders a high fight. I don't feel confident in saying that for sure he'd beat him and whether we could make a case for I don't see Oda ever playing it that way in the manga, I think if it ever came up in the manga Oda would have a 1st mate edge out Doffy.

To play devil's advocate though; we don't know that Doffy has Durability =or> Luffy so we don't know he'd bee able to withstand Kata's bout the way Luffy did. Kata gave G4 a good push so it'd still be like fighting against G4 which didn't go so hot for Doffy and Kata doesn't have as quick a gas point as Luffy did at DR. I still don't really think he'd beat a 1st mate, and there's nothing wrong with being just below a Yonkou first mate imo.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

He's probably one of those people that thinks that Ace was WB's 2nd strongest subordinate just because he's the 2nd division commander, even though it's very obvious that division numbers don't matter in OP.

Coming from the idiot that thinks Shiliew is the second strongest just because he's the 2nd division commander?
Congrats dumbass. Fire is hotter than whatever Oven can produce.

I mentioned Ace because they government offered him a spot on the Royal Warlords of the Seas which is a testament to his powers.
So keep my name or posts out of your mouth.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Coming from the idiot that thinks Shiliew is the second strongest just because he's the 2nd division commander?
Congrats dumbass. Fire is hotter than whatever Oven can produce.

I mentioned Ace because they government offered him a spot on the Royal Warlords of the Seas which is a testament to his powers.
So keep my name or posts out of your mouth.

Pulling stuff out of your ass, as usual. I never said that I think Shiliew is the second strongest because he's the 2nd division commander.

@bold What does this have to do with what I said?

 

[chopstickchakra]

Coming from the idiot that thinks Shiliew is the second strongest just because he's the 2nd division commander?
Congrats dumbass. Fire is hotter than whatever Oven can produce.

I mentioned Ace because they government offered him a spot on the Royal Warlords of the Seas which is a testament to his powers.
So keep my name or posts out of your mouth.

Pulling stuff out of your ass, as usual. I never said that I think Shiliew is the second strongest because he's the 2nd division commander.

@bold What does this have to do with what I said?

For the record Oven can produce heat in general and there are heats hotter than fire and since we didn't get a cap on Oven's heat we can't say for sure how his heat compares to Ace's fire. That said can we move on from Ace. The topic is Doffy not Ace. I love Ace, I wish we got to see more of him but the sad truth is we didn't all we got for Ace was possibilities never seen and I'd rather avoid that argument again if we can, I think we've all said our piece on Ace.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Pulling stuff out of your ass, as usual. I never said that I think Shiliew is the second strongest because he's the 2nd division commander.

Very ironic coming from you after that stupid speculation you made.
@bold: Yes you did. It's all because some miraculous way I think Ace is the second strongest just because he's 2nd division commander dur... :sdo:

@bold What does this have to do with what I said?

It's the reason why I even brought up Ace in the first place.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

For the record Oven can produce heat in general and there are heats hotter than fire and since we didn't get a cap on Oven's heat we can't say for sure how his heat compares to Ace's fire. That said can we move on from Ace. The topic is Doffy not Ace. I love Ace, I wish we got to see more of him but the sad truth is we didn't all we got for Ace was possibilities never seen and I'd rather avoid that argument again if we can, I think we've all said our piece on Ace.

I only mentioned Ace for the sake of Jinbei and we don't have a finite cap on Ace too. We just saw Oven get light blitzed by Ichiji and Sanji blitz kick his face off without haki or fire.
Now people think he stands a chance against Jinbei? Why?

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Very ironic coming from you after that stupid speculation you made.
@bold: Yes you did. It's all because some miraculous way I think Ace is the second strongest just because he's 2nd division commander dur... :sdo:


It's the reason why I even brought up Ace in the first place.

Please show me where I said that Shiliew is the second strongest because he's the 2nd division commander. And believing that you'd think Ace is #2 just because of his division number isn't baseless given that you think Burgess is BB's first mate despite proving himself to be fodder in Dressrosa.