[Discussion] The "Relic" that is Doflamingo (power discussion)

[SixPathsMike101]

That’s what I was saying, Doflamingo isn’t better than lay because Katakuri was fisting g4 and Cracker wasn’t really beating G4 he was just spamming biscuit knights and hiding. When he got hit he was beat.

 

[Punk Hazard]

That’s what I was saying, Doflamingo isn’t better than lay because Katakuri was fisting g4 and Cracker wasn’t really beating G4 he was just spamming biscuit knights and hiding. When he got hit he was beat.

That's the exact opposite of what happened. Luffy was the one running and hiding from Cracker, while Cracker was attacking Luffy with both his biscuits and his own body.

 

[chopstickchakra]

That’s what I was saying, Doflamingo isn’t better than lay because Katakuri was fisting g4 and Cracker wasn’t really beating G4 he was just spamming biscuit knights and hiding. When he got hit he was beat.

That's the exact opposite of what happened. Luffy was the one running and hiding from Cracker, while Cracker was attacking Luffy with both his biscuits and his own body.

Come on now, we saw Cracker attack like once with his real body and then the fight happened off panel, who knows how many chances he had to attack with his real body beyond that time he cut Luffy's arm after surprising him. Luffy was running and Cracker was producing a shit ton of crackers to keep Luffy from his body, we know both of those are true.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Come on now, we saw Cracker attack like once with his real body and then the fight happened off panel, who knows how many chances he had to attack with his real body beyond that time he cut Luffy's arm after surprising him. Luffy was running and Cracker was producing a shit ton of crackers to keep Luffy from his body, we know both of those are true.

We see Cracker directly attack Luffy twice. The second time was when Luffy brought out a new form, and Cracker's first action was attacking himself. He's breathing hard, indicating he's been doing shit with his real body. Not to mention that he's a swordsman, so he'd be used to close quarters combat. It was outright stated that Luffy was the one running and hiding.

 

[chopstickchakra]

We see Cracker directly attack Luffy twice. The second time was when Luffy brought out a new form, and Cracker's first action was attacking himself. He's breathing hard, indicating he's been doing shit with his real body. Not to mention that he's a swordsman, so he'd be used to close quarters combat. It was outright stated that Luffy was the one running and hiding.

Twice, my apologies. Thing is we still don't know what happened in that fight, you may be right, you may be wrong. When we come back and see Cracker it may be because he's had to produce such a large amount of biscuit soldiers, and now I'll speculate, probably one of the highest amounts he's had to make for a single fight if not the highest.

I'm not denying Luffy was running and hiding I'm just saying we don't know Cracker was running around and attacking himself since it wasn't shown and he wouldn't necessarily need to chase Luffy himself either since all Luffy could do was evade or eat the biscuits, it wasn't until Cracker got in range Luffy was able to end the fight. It sounded like more a war of attrition with Cracker sending in "troops" and Luffy avoiding until the "commander" was in range.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

"Luffy got zero hits on Katakuri before he got Haki, if you ignore when the opposite of what I said happened actually happened"


Except it didn't. Snake Man worked on Katakuri because of the self-inflicted wound and because Snake Man was fast enough to catch him off-guard. At no point is it shown that Luffy was able to hit Katakuri because he could see the future.


I'm not ignoring Katakuri's endurance at all. Katakuri has shown that endurance is not his strong suit. Only a few attacks by Luffy were able to put him down, and none of them were on the level of King Kong Gun, which was needed after Doffy took heavier hits than Katakuri AND his organs busted up by Gamma Knife.



The chunk absolutely took more steam out of him than it did Luffy, which is one example of Katakuri having less endurance than Luffy does. Like I said before, a majority of that fight was Katakuri pummeling Luffy and being unable to finish him off with Luffy only getting in hits for a small portion of the total fight(when Katakuri's Haki failed due to stress, and when Luffy used the speed-based Snake Man to catch him off-guard).

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Except Doflamingo has shown to be able to take serious damage just like Luffy did during this fight.


The same way Luffy couldn't scratch it either, and still won in the end? All you've been doing is saying "Katakuri has more brute force than Doffy." He had more brute force than Luffy too.


Katakuri said in the beginning of the fight that he was getting stressed because he was realizing Luffy would be hard to put down. Katakuri was going to end up flustered and stressed out regardless of Luffy seeing his mouth because of the fact that Luffy was taking his beatings and still getting up. It wasn't until the end of the fight that Katakuri came to terms with Luffy being that strong that it stopped stressing him out.

If Katakuri goes into this expecting to defeat Doffy, which he probably would, and Doffy is able to dodge and fend off his hits like Luffy did, he's gonna end up stressed out, as per Katakuri's own words.


Ignoring all kinds of context here, but go on.

Doflamingo himself said that him stitching together his organs didn't heal them, and he was visibly weaker after the Gamma Knife than he was before.


Neither of them had damaged internal organs. Katakuri and Luffy had the sides of the outside of their abdomens damaged. Your organs are centered in your body, you're not gonna hit any of them by striking the outside of the bottom of your abdomen. Doflamingo had his organs directly targeted, actually busted up, and multiple of them were struck. His injury was far worse than the trident stab.


This would be a solid argument if Snake Man was stronger than Bound Man. Luffy didn't use Snake Man because it was stronger than Bound Man or Tank Man, he used it because he needed speed to get past Katakuri's abilities. Snake Man would be inadequate against Doflamingo because Luffy needed power over speed to beat him, the same way Boundman was inadequate against Katakuri.

Kata quickly understood how Snake Man worked. It wasn't just Snake Man being fast, but also Luffy's improved haki that allowed Luffy to touch Kata even in G2. @Bold, don't be disingenuous. We both know that instance doesn't matter in Kata's matchup with Doffy since Kata won't be having an eating session.

@Red, you count Doflamingo's 20 off panel minutes as hype, what about Kata's 37 mins and entire session of Boundman? That wasn't a few hits, they were going all out even for the fractions we saw. Compared to how Luffy and Doflamingo(Luffy dodging strings more than anything) fought before going off panel, Kata's session was insane.
Sure, the majority was pummeling and I see that, but again, you're skimping over the fact that Kata fought a Luffy capable of fighting on similar terms for 2+ hours(after his haki got consistent).
2+ hours of fighting with his stomach falling out is way more than someone fighting with repaired organs for less than an hour.

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You're also not considering that Kata could push an improved Luffy to the extent he did, and would have a much easier time with Doflamingo. The whole reason Katakuri can't be said to have tanked a King Kong Gun or anything noteworthy from G4 Boundman is because it couldn't touch him. We don't even know how strong Snake Man's impacts are compared to Boundman(which Kata could take a Kong Gun from).

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So what is it that makes you think Doflamingo is going to catch Katakuri? Snake Man is supposedly far faster than Boundman, and Luffy had great Observation Haki at the time, yet Katakuri went toe to toe with it. Would a peak Doflamingo really contend with Luffy after these improvements when people question who'd win between peak Doflamingo and Dressrosa Arc Luffy? Doflamingo has literally nothing to suggest he'd be able to touch Katakuri.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Kata quickly understood how Snake Man worked. It wasn't just Snake Man being fast, but also Luffy's improved haki that allowed Luffy to touch Kata even in G2.

There is no evidence of this.

@Bold, don't be disingenuous. We both know that instance doesn't matter in Kata's matchup with Doffy since Kata won't be having an eating session.

No, but we see that being unable to quickly finish an opponent stresses Katakuri out. Doflamingo is such an opponent. He's gonna end up stressed and flustered either way.

@Red, you count Doflamingo's 20 off panel minutes as hype, what about Kata's 37 mins and entire session of Boundman? That wasn't a few hits, they were going all out even for the fractions we saw. Compared to how Luffy and Doflamingo(Luffy dodging strings more than anything) fought before going off panel, Kata's session was insane.

I never discounted this as part of Katakuri's hype, I actually addressed this. Katakuri was able to last so long against Boundman and Snake Man because of Snake Man carried less powerful blows and against Boundman, he had enough to power to overwhelm it and stop it from actually landing many blows. This is an advantage Katauri has over Doffy, but he had this same advantage of Luffy as well, and he ultimately lost to Luffy because Luffy's advantage was endurance and speed, the same attributes that Doffy excels at.

Sure, the majority was pummeling and I see that, but again, you're skimping over the fact that Kata fought a Luffy capable of fighting on similar terms for 2+ hours(after his haki got consistent).
2+ hours of fighting with his stomach falling out is way more than someone fighting with repaired organs for less than an hour.

Get this weak Variah level argument out of here. Not only did Katakuri not receive damage to his organs, but Doffy's organs were not repaired, as he said himself.

You're also not considering that Kata could push an improved Luffy to the extent he did, and would have a much easier time with Doflamingo.

You're ignoring two main details to draw this conclusion:

1. The only thing we know for a fact that Luffy improved on is that his Observation got to the point that he could see glimpses of the future which, again, had no visible impact on their fight whatsoever.

2. Doflamingo, while weakened, was STILL stronger than Luffy at Dressrosa, evident by the fact that Luffy was unable to properly fight back after his G4 assault while Doflamingo was. So even if you want to say that Luffy has improved in between Dressrosa and WCI, that doesn't mean Doffy automatically loses to Katakuri every time because Doffy was stronger anyways. I could just as easily argue that Luffy improved to the point that he's now as strong as Doffy when he was inferior before, and could therefore win for the same reasons Luffy ended up winning.

The whole reason Katakuri can't be said to have tanked a King Kong Gun or anything noteworthy from G4 Boundman is because it couldn't touch him. We don't even know how strong Snake Man's impacts are compared to Boundman(which Kata could take a Kong Gun from).

We do know how strong because, as I showed in my reply to Variah, Snake Man had less impact on Katakuri than Boundman did.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

There is no evidence of this.

1. The only thing we know for a fact that Luffy improved on is that his Observation got to the point that he could see glimpses of the future which, again, had no visible impact on their fight whatsoever.

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Ties into the fact Luffy's haki usage isn't unnecessary in even Snake Man since it could very well be dodged. What is there to explain why his Observation Haki didn't help though? The 8ish hours he took getting stomped? It was pretty obvious that Observation Haki played a major role from the moment Luffy landed his first valid hit in G2 no more than a few panels after it improved.

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No, but we see that being unable to quickly finish an opponent stresses Katakuri out. Doflamingo is such an opponent. He's gonna end up stressed and flustered either way.

Kata didn't lose his observation when he got annoyed about Luffy's persistence; Only when Luffy saw Kata eating did he lose his Observation. Katakuri quickly recovered his calm even then despite his reputation and mouth being his bigger worries seeing how he'd shielded them for decades.

I never discounted this as part of Katakuri's hype, I actually addressed this. Katakuri was able to last so long against Boundman and Snake Man because of Snake Man carried less powerful blows and against Boundman, he had enough to power to overwhelm it and stop it from actually landing many blows. This is an advantage Katauri has over Doffy, but he had this same advantage of Luffy as well, and he ultimately lost to Luffy because Luffy's advantage was endurance and speed, the same attributes that Doffy excels at.

Katakuri wasn't just overpowering Boundman or putting him on the defensive, he was also dodging his attacks with Z-E-R-O difficulty and Doflamingo can't say that. We've only seen Doflamingo avoid Boundman's onslaught by putting Luffy putting strings in front of himself or putting Luffy on the defensive, which he can't do to Kata.

We do know how strong Snake Man is because, as I showed in my reply to Variah, Snake Man had less impact on Katakuri than Boundman did.

I'll consider Snake Man weaker, but there's no way Doflamingo took a third as many hits from Boundman as Katakuri took fron Snake Man. Most of Doflamingo's fight was off paneled without a hint that too much happened past avoidance. Before going off panel during Doflamingo's first session, the fight leaves on this note where Luffy does no more than avoid strings and get blocked by them.

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Then returns with him still dodging until he releases Leo Bazooka.

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His next session being a single King Kong Gun that puts him down.

2. Doflamingo, while weakened, was STILL stronger than Luffy at Dressrosa, evident by the fact that Luffy was unable to properly fight back after his G4 assault while Doflamingo was. So even if you want to say that Luffy has improved in between Dressrosa and WCI, that doesn't mean Doffy automatically loses to Katakuri every time because Doffy was stronger anyways. I could just as easily argue that Luffy improved to the point that he's now as strong as Doffy when he was inferior before, and could therefore win for the same reasons Luffy ended up winning.

You have a point, but it hardly applies due to this seeming to be a question of endurance more so than anything for you. I think it's arguable that Luffy has displayed more endurance than Doflamingo at this point. But, it's pretty hard to actually argue so because Doflamingo's feat of fighting with busted organs is good, though the length of time he fought Luffy(<1hour)is undeniably measly compared to the "short end"(2ish hours) Luffy had vs Katakuri, and definitely child's play compared to how long Luffy took a beating from Katakuri(6+ hours). I think we'll have to draw a line between the ability to take or alleviate punishment and the ability to not gas out.

 

[Big Mom]

Regardless

Doffy isn't pushing katas buttons, he's not landing a hit. And he's not winning. Regardless that should've been /thread a long time ago

 

[chopstickchakra]

Regardless

Doffy isn't pushing katas buttons, he's not landing a hit. And he's not winning. Regardless that should've been /thread a long time ago

It's hyperbole like this that prolongs this discussion. Doffy would absolutely get A hit and he'd land a few. Would he win, I don't think so but you make it sound like it'd be no dif from Kata and that's not accurate either.

 

[Punk Hazard]

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None of this is proof that Luffy was using future sight.

Kata didn't lose his observation when he got annoyed about Luffy's persistence; Only when Luffy saw Kata eating did he lose his Observation.

Katakuri stated he was GETTING stressed as a result of Luffy's persistence. They then stated after the eating fiasco that being stressed means you won't be able to use Haki. Since I have to put two and two together: Katakuri's Haki would failed even without the eating at some point during the fight because he could not defeat Luffy as quickly as he wanted to.

Katakuri wasn't just overpowering Boundman or putting him on the defensive, he was also dodging his attacks with Z-E-R-O difficulty and Doflamingo can't say that. We've only seen Doflamingo avoid Boundman's onslaught by putting Luffy putting strings in front of himself or putting Luffy on the defensive, which he can't do to Kata.

The hell does it matter HOW you avoid being hit by Boundman? Katakuri dodging it and Doflamingo fencing Luffy off and preventing him from attacking accomplishes the same thing. One method isn't better than the other.

I'll consider Snake Man weaker, but there's no way Doflamingo took a third as many hits from Boundman as Katakuri took fron Snake Man.

Doflamingo took the Rhino Schneider, Leo Bazooka, Culverin, Kong Gun, and then King Kong Gun. Five hits. Luffy landed five hits with Snake Man alone, not counting the hit he got in with Boundman and the final blow. You can count the damage to Doffy's organs and Katakuri's stab wound as well, but the former is clearly more damage than the second.

 

[Big Mom]

Put it this way, what law did to doffy he'd never pull off on kata

 

[Punk Hazard]

Put it this way, what law did to doffy he'd never pull off on kata

That's because Katakuri has the very particular power to see the future, and that was a sneak attack. By the same measure, what Luffy did with Snake Man to Katakuri, he'd never do to Doflamingo.

 

[Big Mom]

That's because Katakuri has the very particular power to see the future, and that was a sneak attack. By the same measure, what Luffy did with Snake Man to Katakuri, he'd never do to Doflamingo.

But he would, twice as bad, as katakuri is far stronger than doffy

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

None of this is proof that Luffy was using future sight.

Yes it does. If Katakuri could dodge Snake Man's fist multiple in a row, it shows that it's speed isn't the sole problem. Just the way Snake Man works(by chasing) means that Observation Haki actually has more use with it than without. The idea is that you can dodge the first punch, but the fist returns to where you've dodged. You conveniently left out Luffy's first hit after 7+ hours only after improving his Observation Haki too.

Katakuri stated he was GETTING stressed as a result of Luffy's persistence. They then stated after the eating fiasco that being stressed means you won't be able to use Haki. Since I have to put two and two together: Katakuri's Haki would failed even without the eating at some point during the fight because he could not defeat Luffy as quickly as he wanted to.

Sure, let's say it does happen. Everything says that he'd quickly regain his calm if his largest worries only cost him a moment of composure. You act as if Katakuri losing his calm means losing the fight when even Boundman couldn't put him down despite the fact.

The hell does it matter HOW you avoid being hit by Boundman? Katakuri dodging it and Doflamingo fencing Luffy off and preventing him from attacking accomplishes the same thing. One method isn't better than the other.

It highlights that Katakuri actually has the speed AND power to tango with Boundman. Doflamingo doesn't necessarily have as much speed as Boundman and it's proven by him dodging 0 of Boundman's attacks.

Doflamingo took the Rhino Schneider, Leo Bazooka, Culverin, Kong Gun, and then King Kong Gun. Five hits. Luffy landed five hits with Snake Man alone, not counting the hit he got in with Boundman and the final blow. You can count the damage to Doffy's organs and Katakuri's stab wound as well, but the former is clearly more damage than the second.

Don't be like this. You're just tallying up the attacks we've seen from onscreen and neglecting what I actually said. Even your tallying is wrong. Katakuri tanked a Kong Gun and multiple attacks from G4 Boundman, AND then received those attacks from Snake Man. What you're neglecting is that Doflamingo kept Boundman Luffy at bay for 20 minutes, while Katakuri 100% and unmistakably brawled Snake Man for 37 mins AND boundman.

I admit Doflamingo's wounds may likely be worse than Katakuri's. But, in the end, he only fought with it for less than an hour, and it's not as if the guy's strings are far off from medical care. If Doflamingo's patching was merely to hold his organs together, he'd be dead.

 

[kiiro]

Snake Man would have finished off Foddermingo faster than Bound Man.
Foddermingo was not worthy of Luffy's Snake.

What is the difference between Snake Man and Bound Man? I mean, it is still gear 4 and has the same properties as to combine rubber and armament haki. If there were a difference, it would be that snake man is faster while Bound Man is stronger.

You have a severe lacking of the concept of a battle being determined by multiple facets. You point out that Katakuri has superior power to Doflamingo, being able to attack Gear Fourth with power that Doffy could not, and you're banking on this to mean that Katakuri defeats Doflamingo.

Yet, Katakuri lost to Luffy in spite of having far greater attack power than Luffy. Your argument is demonstrated to be faulty by the very fight you're trying to use to support it. You say that Luffy didn't resort to Snake Man against Doflamingo, but that's not the case. He COULDN'T use Snake Man against Doflamingo because Luffy needed something that was power-based over being speed-based.

That was the edge Boundman had on Doffy: Power, not speed. Luffy vs Katakuri was the opposite situation: He needed something that was speed-based, not power-based, because Katakuri would use future sight and his pseudo-Logia powers to dodge things that weren't fast enough.

Luffy won against Katakuri because he had the endurance to, despite Katakuri having overwhelming power. The same quality that led to Doflamingo beating Luffy despite Luffy having overwhelming power. At the end of the day, your argument falls apart because a fight isn't just determined by "Who hits harder?" Being superior enough in ONE stat, like Doffy is to Katakuri in endurance, is enough to sway a fight.

I wont say Luffy had overwhelming power, I mean he did stop double culvarin like if it was nothing. If he has the power to stop it, then he has the same power to attack. The problem was not if he gave or didnt give hit to Luffy, the problem was he didnt give effective hits.

What I am saying is that when Doflamingo used his awakening, It was Luffy running away, getting hits (even though they were not effective) and dodging. So the problem was not that Doflamingo did not have the power, it was that did not give good shots. And those string did not even had Haki, so if Doflamingo could not get a clear hit, using Haki would be just unnecessarily. I think that if Doflamingo did not receive Gamma Knife, he would have more speed and be more in the battle. I mean, after all he was in the verge of death and somehow manage to keep fighting even when he was already neat death.

He had a high underworld title (certainly not king) but he was renowned in the underworld and he worked directly with Kaido so I give him probs for that because it is influential.
However being a celestial is not strength-wise influential, it just makes him very entitled and him being king is as valid as Boa Hancock being Princess.
His influence is not up there with Dragon or Mihawk because you're just reaching at this point and you're using your bias to cloud you judgment. We get it, you love Doflamingo...

But Mihawk upholds a title that most swordsmen are gunning for and his influence molded one of the main characters, Zoro. He stalemated with Shanks.
As for Dragon he is the most influential person of them all even more than my favs. He is the most wanted man in the world with headquarters all over the grandline. That's as influential as it gets so you know you're wrong for comparing Dofy to the likes of these guys.

Loving a character wont mean he is wrong. And if we talk who has more influence, that without doubt would be Doflamingo. In the underworld, he did not have a title, he was the biggest broker of the black market. He even could get the devil fruit of Ace. Oda said that Doflamingo can even get newspaper in Impel Down due his acquaintances. Doffy influencie as far is even greater than Dragon. He could manipulated even the Celestial Dragons after all he knows their secret. No other character has the same influence as Doflamingo, and I am talking about his communication network, not about who can influence more than who in a meaning of surpassing yourself.

If we go by that then it would be Gol D Roger since the Pirate Era is due him.

:lol No he doesn't and he wouldn't. Dofy will never reach Dogtooth's level of bounty. At beast he can strive for 600million but in no way 1 billion, like wtf condemned you to say that? 1 billion is reserved for veteran top tier yonkou first mate commander level people. Even Luffy who beat Doflamingo should have no business gaining 1 billion bounty. He beat a billion bounty person unlike Dofy and he still doesn't deserve it. Please stop.

I'm sure people like Jack has down way worse let alone Dogtooth who is supposedly worse according to his bounty but whatever it's all a speculation on my part.

600 Million Really?

You heard it here folks, Zoro’s opponents aren’t usually swordsmen because some of his opponents weren’t swordsmen in matchups that never happened.

Hahaha I know.

Nah, almost no one has as much durability as luffy after this fight. Did you not just read the same Manga as me? And llf doffy couldn't scratch katas strength mochi. Kata got worked by luffy seeing his mouth, again did you not read the same Manga as me? If anything, luffy kept getting up made kata happier, and kata even stated luffy observation haki was getting better.

No matter what you say, they are close to the same tier but

Doffy isn't hitting katakuri
Doffy isn't gonna see his mouth
Doffy isn't gonna keep getting up as many times as luffy did
Doffy isn't winning

Bold, tell me why not since I dont see arguments, just opinions and if we go by opinion then I could say Doflamingo would beat Katakuri mid Difficult. And saying that I would look just as dumb as you writing that.

You know how idiotic that fanboy can be. He compares 20 minutes of getting thrown by G4 to basically a whole evenings worth of fighting against Dogtooth.
Gives the typical “Dofy” had ruptured organs excuse despite the fact that he stitched them together, but to make matters worse Dogtooth also damaged his organs too when he stabbed himself to make the Plainfield even with Luffyand that still didn’t deter his powers/ability (luffy’s internal organs were damaged too).

And Dofy wasn’t strong enough to see his Snake man transformation yet he thinks Dofy is stronger than Luffy?

Snake man is a transformation he created back in the island pre timeskip with Rayleigh. He spent a year more training on his Haki before reaching Sabody island. How can anyone say that Dofy>Luffy? :lol

1.- Well, it wasn't just 20 minutes. It was only 20 minutes off panel and he was not getting thrown.
2.- Against Katakuri was even, yes, against Gear 2 and 3.
3.- Doflamingo having his organs destroyed that put him on the verge of death is not an excuse. Is a fact, no matter what you said. Doflamingo was in a state near to death yet managed to keep fighting. Law clearly stated that Doflamingo should die.
4.- Having damage might not make you weaker power wise, but It would keep you fighting 100%. I mean, Luffy after he received the fatal wound in his abdomen, Katakuri was giving him a big beating that even Katakuri acknowledge that Luffy got weaker. I mean, yes, If Luffy was damaged and still managed to use Gear 4, his attacks would have the same power but wont be able to efficiently.
5.- Snake man is a transformation he created back in the island? Wasn't Bound mas also created in that Island?

Even Cracker was at one point superior to G4 Luffy. Doffys time is up.

Cracker was not superior to Gear 4. Luffy broke his biscuits with a single punch with no problem. He could elude Cracker attacks. His strategy to use his biscuits as shield made him harder to hit. That is the difference, but in power he was way inferior. And him cutting Luffy's arm is great, but we must accept it was only because Luffy thought he won and was open to an attack.

He got smacked around, tf is there to complain about? All his attacks were useless against G4 and his awakening was able able to keep him away momentarily before getting smacked into a hill.


That's a horrible excuse. Neither Luffy or Dogtooth healed when they had their digestive organs stabbed bleeding and still preforming in the highest level with no complaints. Zoro, Luffy and many others pre timskip had a hole put into their bodies yet still got the job done, so if a internal knife stab is what weakens him that much then he's pathetic. I never said that he healed it but he still stitched it up to prevent himself from bleeding out internal so there should not be any excuse.


Drop the bullshit Riker, Luffy and Dogtooth had their intestines blown out and any further away from the center would mean that their kidneys would be blown out as well. The Large intestines are still outlined from the mid section of the body while dead in the middle is where the small intestines are all jammed together.

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To make matters worse, both Luffy and Dogtooth were fighting with internal bleeding while Doflamingo didn't

Snake man is not be inadequate for Doflamingo because Luffy did not say that Snake man is weaker than Boundman in strength only speed. So Snakeman would just end the fight faster than 20 minutes to 10 minutes if anything. Snake man> Doflamingo and you'd be an idiot to think otherwise.

Bold, what is wrong with you? So you think that gamma knife is a joke? It is the most powerful attack from Law !!
The attack is no joke, If Doflamingo did not stitch his organ he would literally be dead period. And still, he receive a counter shock from Law, his second strongest attack IMO to a Mingo in the floor without protection. That attack alone already killed the Jetis in punk Hazard. There is no comparasion between the wound that Doflamingo had with the wound that Luffy and Katakuri had.

Their injuries was fatal, yes, but it wasnt a clear death besides not all their organs was damaged. Luffy in Marine Ford got his insides burned from Akainu and needed treatment for a week if not more and yes, even he was in the verge of death.

Everything here is wrong and it would take precious time dissecting every sentence to the last paragraph of what's wrong with your statement. So I'll just point out the ones that need serious reforming so that I can move on.

1. Dogtooth and Luffy did have their intestinal organs damaged whether you like to believe it or not. Dogtooth's Mochi spear penetrated right through the left abdominal area hitting the large intestine/colon. That's not up for debate, you can clearly see the 3 heads of the trident on the other side of both their bodies.
Even if you were to move it even further to the outside of the body, not only would the pole not be stuck inside of their body (Dogtooth), it will make contact with the kidneys poisoning their bodies and or shutting down their mobility to walk.

So you pick your poison here. You either rely on your fanfic which still damages a more important organ that requires immediate care than the other or you stick to the canon of it actually hitting the larger intestine.

2. Doflamingo's organs were no longer damaged. Law said that Dofy's organs were ruptured, that means it was split/crack not completely destroyed. For him to sow back his split organs means that he is completely intact, otherwise he would've had internal bleeding like Luffy and Dogtooth did during his fight. But he didn't.
So having pain is not an excuse because if it is then let him take notes from Zoro about the real definition of pain since he's too much of a bitch to handle 2-3 attacks from Law.

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Law did not even matter if he would die, he as doctor already stated that Doflamingo would die. There is no comparison.

3. Snakeman being any less powerful than Boundman is a stupid speculation on your part and you have absolutely nothing in the manga that specifically states that Snakeman is weaker than Boundman.
I don't care about what you think, I don't care what YOU feel is implied, and I don't care what fellow Doflamingo fan who follows everything you have to say in regards to Snakeman being weaker than Boundman. All I care about is what's factual and Luffy said that Snakeman increased his speeds to be faster than Boundman, that's it. He said nothing about decrease in power.

The lack of understanding the manga is what is happening here. If you think Bound Man and Snake man have the same power then something is wrong with you for sure, and I doubt that is what is happening, the problem is you dont want to see what it is clear.

4. Dogtooth's Power Mochi beat up Boundman while Doflamingo got pounded by Boundman. So there is no arguing. Dogtooth>>>>Doflamingo and you're foolish to think otherwise. He's Shichibaku level so at best he's right behind Cracker in strength because even Cracker was able to penetrate G4's armament while Dofy did not. Make a case for Cracker first before attempting Dogtooth. Cracker fought G4 minus a few 10 miutine interval for at least 11 hours. Dofy lasted somewhere around 30 minutes in total (the +10 is from the interval).

Did he beat Bound Man really? If that was the case he would have won since the beginning. Well, Doflamingo got beat up by Law, Luffy and many more soldiers. Katakuri only from Luffy, that would make Luffy + Law + Many Soldiers> Doflamingo > Katakuri wont it?

Cracker was only able to damaged Luffy since he could hit him effectively and if are talking about Warlord level then Mihawk is on the same level as Doffy. And Cracker only fought G4 twice, in those 11 hours we saw that it was Base Luffy fighting, eating and running.

Yes it does. If Katakuri could dodge Snake Man's fist multiple in a row, it shows that it's speed isn't the sole problem. Just the way Snake Man works(by chasing) means that Observation Haki actually has more use with it than without. The idea is that you can dodge the first punch, but the fist returns to where you've dodged. You conveniently left out Luffy's first hit after 7+ hours only after improving his Observation Haki too.

Well no, that is not how Snake Man works, that is how Python works and it was also used against Doflamingo. It chases the enemy. Snake mas is just faster but weaker.

Sure, let's say it does happen. Everything says that he'd quickly regain his calm if his largest worries only cost him a moment of composure. You act as if Katakuri losing his calm means losing the fight when even Boundman couldn't put him down despite the fact.

It is not losing his calm only. I mean, Doflamingo is an expert in that. But also because Katakuri would get weaker as the fight progresses.

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Luffy stated that Katakuri's strong isnt his power, devil fruit or anything else, it is his Observation Haki. As long Katakuri has it, he could even fight a Yonko if they are slower, I am not saying winning but fighting.

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It highlights that Katakuri actually has the speed AND power to tango with Boundman. Doflamingo doesn't necessarily have as much speed as Boundman and it's proven by him dodging 0 of Boundman's attacks.

In fact Doflamingo does have the speed to fight Gear 4 with his power, he lacks of power to fight him with his body and haki. Katakuri also did not have the defense to stop gear 4 with his body, in fact, Luffy broke his defense and gave him a hit:

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While vs Doflamingo, the same happen yet he did not brake his defense:

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Both were sent flying, yet he only broke the defense of Katakuri. Also, Luffy in the scan above where he says that the best of Katakuri is his observation haki he said that his armament haki wont lose to Katakuri's armament Haki. Katakuris armament haki is stronger against Luffy in gear 3 and gear 2, not gear 4.

Don't be like this. You're just tallying up the attacks we've seen from onscreen and neglecting what I actually said. Even your tallying is wrong. Katakuri tanked a Kong Gun and multiple attacks from G4 Boundman, AND then received those attacks from Snake Man. What you're neglecting is that Doflamingo kept Boundman Luffy at bay for 20 minutes, while Katakuri 100% and unmistakably brawled Snake Man for 37 mins AND boundman.

Well the true is that Doflamingo fought gear four 20 minutes off panel, not only 20 minutes. He fought Luffy about 57 minutes or even more since the birdcage in one hour was gonna kill everyone and only like 3 minutes was left. And he almost used gear 4 instanly or after 10-20 minutes after Doflamingo told him about the hour limit.

Now it also true that Katakuri did not fight the whole time limit of Bound Man since Luffy before he ran out of time he flee from the battle to gain time for his Haki recovery, that was about 4 a.m. and then the next time we saw the clock it was 9 a.m. so we dont know when did Luffy return to fight Katakuri, it could have been 10 minutes or it could have been 5 hours. Hard to say.

I admit Doflamingo's wounds may likely be worse than Katakuri's. But, in the end, he only fought with it for less than an hour, and it's not as if the guy's strings are far off from medical care. If Doflamingo's patching was merely to hold his organs together, he'd be dead.

Well that is what he said, he only stitched his organs and was fatally wounded.

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Doflamingo could have killed Law with no interventions and killed Luffy with no interventions. So If Luffy strength was worth a Billion at least and Law 500, then I could say he is up there to.

I close my case.