[Discussion] The "Relic" that is Doflamingo (power discussion)

[Uverdore9]

You do realize that you're the only one wasting time with your stupid speculations? All you proved is that you watch the anime therefore you force your stupid little theory on everyone.
Look at the Dressrosa arc. Zoro didn't fight Diamante the swordsmen of the crew, so keep making yourself look stupid yelling in all caps.
Kuzan is the second strongest of the crew so again, stupid assumption.


You're an idiot if you think he wins and wrong section scrub.

You know, I laughed really hard, on how you bolded his 'theoretical parts', lol.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

:lol Pica's a swordsmen apparently(@Riker). He swings a sword one time then that automatically makes him a swordsmen? I guess that makes Luffy a swordsmen too because he can

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?

Look at people's stubbornness of some people. I need to start ignoring him again

 

[chopstickchakra]

But...Pica was a swordsman....so looking at Dressrosa supports his point

Is he though? He hardly fights with a sword. If a sword is just his go to weapon but his fighting style is based primarily around his body and his DF is he still technically a swordsman? And I know this can segway to other issues but let's not let it spill into those. If a person fights without a weapon as his main style but when he uses a weapon it's always a sword is he a swordsman still?

What about Burgess then, he has a dagger as his go to weapon, then that leads to what type or size blade do we stop calling someone a swordsman at? We've seen others with small blades be called swordsman like Sarkies, so does a dagger qualify?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Is he though? He hardly fights with a sword. If a sword is just his go to weapon but his fighting style is based primarily around his body and his DF is he still technically a swordsman? And I know this can segway to other issues but let's not let it spill into those. If a person fights without a weapon as his main style but when he uses a weapon it's always a sword is he a swordsman still?

What about Burgess then, he has a dagger as his go to weapon, then that leads to what type or size blade do we stop calling someone a swordsman at? We've seen others with small blades be called swordsman like Sarkies, so does a dagger qualify?

Pica is a swordsman.


Does a dagger, a weapon that's not a sword, qualify as a swo- bro, be real when you talk to me.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Is he though? He hardly fights with a sword. If a sword is just his go to weapon but his fighting style is based primarily around his body and his DF is he still technically a swordsman? And I know this can segway to other issues but let's not let it spill into those. If a person fights without a weapon as his main style but when he uses a weapon it's always a sword is he a swordsman still?

What about Burgess then, he has a dagger as his go to weapon, then that leads to what type or size blade do we stop calling someone a swordsman at? We've seen others with small blades be called swordsman like Sarkies, so does a dagger qualify?

Even if Pica isn't a swordsman, he's just an exception and he doesn't disprove the fact that Zoro's major opponents are generally swordsmen. Besides, it's just ridiculous to believe that Zoro's last or second to last opponent won't be a swordsman

 

[chopstickchakra]

Pica is a swordsman.


Does a dagger, a weapon that's not a sword, qualify as a swo- bro, be real when you talk to me.

Then Sarkies isn't a swordsman because he uses daggers as his blade of choice even though he was shown with a sword before?

 

[chopstickchakra]

Even if Pica isn't a swordsman, he's just an exception and he doesn't disprove the fact that Zoro's major opponents are generally swordsmen. Besides, it's just ridiculous to believe that Zoro's last or second to last opponent won't be a swordsman

I didn't say it wasn't I'm just trying to figure out where we can nail down this mobile definition of Swordsman at because it seems to alter based on the discussion. If Pica is a swordsman why not Burgess, they used a bladed weapon about as much. Why do people consider DF swords like Aokiji and Kuzan not swordsmen when they're trained in swordplay they just use an ice/light sword respectively? I'm trying to lock down some definitive qualified swordsmen to limit any disagreements later.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Then Sarkies isn't a swordsman because he uses daggers as his blade of choice even though he was shown with a sword before?

He doesn't regularly use swords, so no, he isn't.

I didn't say it wasn't I'm just trying to figure out where we can nail down this mobile definition of Swordsman at because it seems to alter based on the discussion. If Pica is a swordsman why not Burgess, they used a bladed weapon about as much. Why do people consider DF swords like Aokiji and Kuzan not swordsmen when they're trained in swordplay they just use an ice/light sword respectively? I'm trying to lock down some definitive qualified swordsmen to limit any disagreements later.

Because Burgess used a KNIFE, not a SWORD.

Kizaru and Kuzan don't use sword regularly enough to be considered swordsmen. Kizaru didn't use it once during the war to fight top tiers, meaning he likely doesn't use swordplay for serious fights, and Kuzan has only used the Ice Saber to fight weak people like pre-skip Strawhats and never opted to use it against any top tiers.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I didn't say it wasn't I'm just trying to figure out where we can nail down this mobile definition of Swordsman at because it seems to alter based on the discussion. If Pica is a swordsman why not Burgess, they used a bladed weapon about as much. Why do people consider DF swords like Aokiji and Kuzan not swordsmen when they're trained in swordplay they just use an ice/light sword respectively? I'm trying to lock down some definitive qualified swordsmen to limit any disagreements later.

You're honestly wasting your time using actual logic with these people.
There's a lot of opponents that Zoro fight who are considered swordsmen, at least the majority but every single person he comes across in a Team battle isn't going to be a swordsmen.
Look at the Warlords that they've come across before Doflamingo.
1. Crocodile's group Daz Bones, a devil fruit user who specifically stated that he's not a swordsmen.
2. Moriah's group he fought the wano samurai zombie Ryuma who's not even part of Moriah's crew.

Even if they want to use Yonkou as an excuse. Look at the line up from post timeskip to pre-timeskip.
1. Whitebeard, Zoro would've fought marco a foot style guy if he was to battle the Whitebeard pirates.
2. Big mam, Zoro would have to fight Dogtooth a H2H combat kind of guy like luffy when they return to fight the Big mom pirates.
3. Kaido, Zoro would probably have to fight Jack from what we see if we go by their logic. And people are already arguing that Jack is not first mate.
4. Shanks, Zoro would have to fight Ben Beckman if and when the crew face them one day. That guy uses rifles. In fact most of the people we know from the first chapter are shooters and Shanks is the swordsmen.

So here's 4 yonkous that I listed that are not swordsmen and look at the Warlords that they wen't up against who are not swordsmen either. People want to tie Pica into being a swordsmen but we all know he's not. Luffy's used a sword before in battle, Sanji used knives, and I'm sure Robin used both knives and a pistol before. You know that Pica is

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a swordsmen and even back when Dofy started off with his 4 supreme officers Pica wasn't even wielding a sword then.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

You heard it here folks, Zoro’s opponents aren’t usually swordsmen because some of his opponents weren’t swordsmen in matchups that never happened.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

When some one who is illiterate can't tell the difference between "majority" and "usually." Like where did he/it see "usually aren't swordsmen" is what I want to know.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Wait Pica isn’t a swordsman? Didn’t he tell Zoro that he has no chance when he uses Haki and resorted to using a giant sword that he wouldn’t be carrying if he wasn’t a swordsman? Pica clearly implies that haki and sword is his strongest form or technique

 

[chopstickchakra]

Wait Pica isn’t a swordsman? Didn’t he tell Zoro that he has no chance when he uses Haki and resorted to using a giant sword that he wouldn’t be carrying if he wasn’t a swordsman? Pica clearly implies that haki and sword is his strongest form or technique

Then why did he rarely use it and discard it for his DF stone form as his final move? Not saying he can't be one just curious what qualifies one as a swordsmen if they barely use the sword and don't use it as their primary fighting style.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Then why did he rarely use it and discard it for his DF stone form as his final move? Not saying he can't be one just curious what qualifies one as a swordsmen if they barely use the sword and don't use it as their primary fighting style.

His df is obviously better for dealing with large number of people. DD family were severely outnumbered in dressrosa and Fujitora wasn’t exactly friendly to DD

 

[Our Lord Sasuke]

Doflamingo has a good chance of beating Katakuri.

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

I didn't say it wasn't I'm just trying to figure out where we can nail down this mobile definition of Swordsman at because it seems to alter based on the discussion. If Pica is a swordsman why not Burgess, they used a bladed weapon about as much. Why do people consider DF swords like Aokiji and Kuzan not swordsmen when they're trained in swordplay they just use an ice/light sword respectively? I'm trying to lock down some definitive qualified swordsmen to limit any disagreements later.

yeah but they are the same who say law is a swordsman( despite his whole fighting style revolving around his df) this is usually in conjunction to poorly explain how zoro is "supposed" to be "stronger" than him

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

yeah but they are the same who say law is a swordsman( despite his whole fighting style revolving around his df) this is usually in conjunction to poorly explain how zoro is "supposed" to be "stronger" than him

Law is a swordsman tho. He was trained by Diamante.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You can laugh, but it's still true. Katakuri's weakness is endurance.

yeah but they are the same who say law is a swordsman( despite his whole fighting style revolving around his df) this is usually in conjunction to poorly explain how zoro is "supposed" to be "stronger" than him

Law uses his DF power through his sword. That's why he's a swordsman.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

You can laugh, but it's still true. Katakuri's weakness is endurance.

What does endurance matter if Doflamingo will never have the chance to actually test Katakuri's? At most, Doflamingo will frustrate Kata like Luffy did. Luffy's win wasn't exactly how Spongebob beat Flats by doing nothing more than tanking. Luffy had to push Katakuri as well using means that Doflamingo just doesn't have. Without Dogtooth losing his cool or Luffy's Observation Haki and unorthodox usage of Snake Man, Luffy would have never bloodied Katakuri at all.
It should also be factored that Luffy dodged plenty of hits that would've chipped at his endurance by using Observation Haki.

 

[Punk Hazard]

What does endurance matter if Doflamingo will never have the chance to actually test Katakuri's? At most, Doflamingo will frustrate Kata like Luffy did. Luffy's win wasn't exactly how Spongebob beat Flats by doing nothing more than tanking. Luffy had to push Katakuri as well using means that Doflamingo just doesn't have. Without Dogtooth losing his cool or Luffy's Observation Haki and unorthodox usage of Snake Man, Luffy would have never bloodied Katakuri at all.
It should also be factored that Luffy dodged plenty of hits that would've chipped at his endurance by using Observation Haki.

Except Luffy didn't push Katakuri at all until the end of the fight. At no point before that did Luffy actually contend with Katakuri power-wise save a brief moment when he went G4.

You mention Doffy can't win without Luffy's Observation Haki, but at no point was it demonstrated that that foresight actually helped Luffy at all during the fight as opposed to regular Observation Haki. Especially since Luffy was dodging Katakuri's attacks before he started seeing the future.

Doflamingo has enough power and speed to keep G4 at bay for 20 minutes and react to it. Katakuri has a higher chance of winning, but Doflamingo still has a chance due to having the same quality that allowed Luffy to win: High endurance. This is plus the fact that Doflamingo is in all likelihood stronger than Luffy, so he should be able to capitalize on this.