[Theory] The conditions of being the true Ashura Transmigrant!

[minamoto]

I============> .


-what makes an individuall a true transmigrant of Ashura??...



i have 3 theories :

is it senjutsu??...or is it Senju DNA and mokuton??..OR...is it the "will of fire" ??


1st notice that in the Manga kishi never stated that Ashura's unique powers were mokuton or senjutsu or the will of fire...he just said that Ashura trained hard to obtain powers...hence kishi left the rest for our interpretations


A)- Senjutsu theory : According to hagoromo indra inherited his father's powers while Ashura didn't inherit $hit!!!

according to hagoromo Ashura only become strong after hard training...from here I can deduce that the hard training was training on "Senjutsu" wich also culminated in ashura's mastering Senjutsu mode!! ...Naruto also mastered senjutsu through hard training...also naruto might have surpassed ashura lil bit when he mastered rasengan and rasenshuriken through hard training...


plz read well what Hagoromo tells Naruto about Ashura :

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assuming that the english translation is correct then this is one of the best expressions and descriptions to Ashura's powers ...Hago says :..."chakra within his Body BLOOMED.."

he didn't say "activated" or "awakened" ..he exactly said BLOOMED...i like that term..."it blooms" means that Ashura in fact, did inherit his fathers powers within him but with hard training they finally bloomed and got activated....with hard training Ashura finally discovered his true powers that were dormant in him...



B) Theory of Senju DNA and Mokouton : Hshirama was transmigrant of Ashura...and Hashirama's unique abilities and traits were Senju DNA and wood release...from this we can deduce that the true ashura transmigrant is he who inherit senju dna and can master mokuton....also remember that tobi said : "the ashura inherited the body of the sage and his phisical abilities"

-another convincing evidence that senju dna and Mokuton are the necessary conditions of being ashura transmigrant is when Madara implanted hashirama's cells to his own body and inherited ashura's powers wich enabled him to awaken Rinnegan and master Mokuton ...

-Problem with this theory : Naruto never mastered Mokuton nor did have senju DNA and yet hagoromo considered him an ashura transmigrant...so could the answer be in the "will of fire"????



C) Theory of the will of fire : to be an Ashura transmigrant one dont need to be a senju...the will of fire will suffice ...best exemple is Naruto uzumaki

Despite most of the uchiha following the curse of Hatred , we saw few of them having the senju's "will of fire" like Kagami, itachi and shisui....

-Obito uchiha also had the will of fire within him thats why he didn't turn evil in the end......

-obito uchiha had hagoromo's circle staff wich represents ashura while Madara had Indra's crescent stafff!

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-the reason why black zetsu couldn't manipulate Obito completely is becuz Obito had the will of fire...


problem with this theory : many believed in the will of fire and yet were'nt transmigrants of Ashura!!!



conclusion : if you compare Naruto with hashirama ..Hashirama is the true Ashura transmigrant and inheritor of his powers....why? cuz hashirama had mokuton , senju dna , senjutsu , and the will of fire....

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NOTE: Tobidara was the one speaking here cuz he was the one who fought Hashirama, while Obito was fully controlled....Bobito can't have a flashback of hashirama right??

 

[Shanks]

That doesn't necessary states about will of fire . Naruto's family belongs to Ashura he doesn't necessary need to have Mokuton .

 

[minamoto]

That doesn't necessary states about will of fire . Naruto's family belongs to Ashura he doesn't necessary need to have Mokuton .

sorry mokuton is the best theory..and naruto dont dizerve to be ashura transmigrant...the juubi himself had senju dna and mokuton parts ...i just forgot to mention that juubi theory dammn!

 

[Shanks]

sorry mokuton is the best theory..and naruto dont dizerve to be ashura transmigrant...the juubi himself had senju dna and mokuton parts ...i just forgot to mention that juubi theory dammn!

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[Shanks]

The thread is debunked Nagato and Naruto 's lineage are from Ashura deal with it . Also Ashura and Naruto makes sense rather than Hashirama becasue the latter was wise and Talented

 

[minamoto]

The thread is debunked Nagato and Naruto 's lineage are from Ashura deal with it . Also Ashura and Naruto makes sense rather than Hashirama becasue the latter was wise and Talented

Tobirama is in better position then Naruto..Tobirama was FROM SENJU CLAN AND BROTHER OF HASHIRAMA but was never considered transmigrant becuz he didn't have senju dna and didn't master mokuton !!!!...YOUR ARGUMENT IS DOUBLE DEBUNKED!!

 

[Slifer]

Nice read, keep it up. We need good thinking guys here)


edit : so cells of the first are always spiced with a bit ashura chakra? thats why they are so op in terms of healing and power? I think thats legit.

 

[Shanks]

Tobirama is in better position then Naruto..Tobirama was FROM SENJU CLAN AND BROTHER OF HASHIRAMA but was never considered transmigrant becuz he didn't have senju dna and didn't master mokuton !!!!...YOUR ARGUMENT IS DOUBLE DEBUNKED!!

Ya you forget about Buddhist and Hindu Mythology . Ashura is like God in Hindu who incarnates in terrible times according to Hinduism culture .

Hashirama and Madara were born during the times the war was getting peak and children were dying.

Naruto and Sasuke were born where Obito and Madara were scheming people in infinite Tsukiyomi .

As the above Zetsu post i have mentioned he states Nagato is from Senju lineage so no arguments here.

 

[Rabbit Teth]

I wonder whether the pool of potential hosts for the transmigrants is very large for Asura because he shared his chakra and connected with everyone in order to develop his power:

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…whereas the pool of hosts for Indra is very small because he tried to do everything on his own. Indra's line seems restricted to the Uchiha whereas Asura skip into distant relations to the Senju like the Uzumaki clan:

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It seems as thought there's an element of destiny involved as well since Gamamaru predicted a blue eyed boy (Naruto) as the one to pacify the Bijuu:

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It's an interesting question though. It's the sort of thing only a part 3 could explain, which I hope it does.

Mokuton probably has nothing to do with the inheritance from the Ootsutsuki and everything to do with chakra taken from the Shinju fruit and sealed in Hagoromo from the Juubi.

 

[minamoto]

Ya you forget about Buddhist and Hindu Mythology . Ashura is like God in Hindu who incarnates in terrible times according to Hinduism culture .

Hashirama and Madara were born during the times the war was getting peak and children were dying.

Naruto and Sasuke were born where Obito and Madara were scheming people in infinite Tsukiyomi .

As the above Zetsu post i have mentioned he states Nagato is from Senju lineage so no arguments here.

Dude the uzumakis are distant relatives of senjus.....the reall descendants of Ashura are senjus and not uzumakis....

-i think the sage considered naruto to be ashura's transmigtant from moral standpoint...becuz he saw in naruto the second ashura... both indra and Naruto cooperated with others and they both trained hard .....but in matter of powers hago stated thar Madara obtained ashura's powers through implating Senju dna thats why senju dna is the best theory

 

[minamoto]

I wonder whether the pool of potential hosts for the transmigrants is very large for Asura because he shared his chakra and connected with everyone in order to develop his power:

Spoiler

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…whereas the pool of hosts for Indra is very small for Indra because he tried to do everything on his own. Indra's line seems restricted to the Uchiha whereas Asura skip into distant relations to the Senju like the Uzumaki clan:

Spoiler

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It seems as thought there's an element of destiny involved as well since Gamamaru predicted a blue eyed boy (Naruto) as the one to pacify the Bijuu:

Spoiler

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It's an interesting question though. It's the sort of thing only a part 3 could explain, which I hope it does.

Mokuton probably has nothing to do with the inheritance from the Ootsutsuki and everything to do with chakra taken from the Shinju fruit and sealed in Hagoromo from the Juubi.

look i got a better theory about the origine of god tree ! wanna cooperate?

 

[SonOfChakra]

I think that was just bad writing. No offence, but You just trying to fill these plot holes with yours "Tobidara" theory.
I accept that thing Naruto doesn't fit here with others Ashura's transmigrants. It's because unlike Ashura, Hashirama and possible Hagoromo he didn't have any references to the Buddhism. Let's look at known Indra's transmigrants - they all summoned perfect susanoo, which is a direct reference to the Shinto religion.

 

[davidou]

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That doesn't imply that every Uzumaki is from Senju lineage.
Did you ever aske yourself if Nagato could have a Uzumaki father and a Senju mother , or vice versa?

 

[Reboryushon]

Lineage my friends. It is well exemplified on volume 70 cover..

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Kaguya -> Hagoromo (Spiritual) -> Indra -> Madara -> Sasuke

Kaguya -> Hagoromo (Physical) -> Ashura -> Hashirama -> Naruto

Simple..

And in order to fill any hole .. We know Uzumaki are Senju related.

 

[davidou]

transmigration is not lineage until it's proven , even if that was the case do you ever ask yourself how Minato was that powerfull , have you never seen the similarities between him and Tobirama , you can't say for sure that Minato isn't from Senju lineage.

Like Nagato , Naruto could be from Uzumaki lineage and from Senju lineage.

 

[Reboryushon]

transmigration is not lineage until it's proven , even if that was the case do you ever ask yourself how Minato was that powerfull , have you never seen the similarities between him and Tobirama , you can't say for sure that Minato isn't from Senju lineage.

Like Nagato , Naruto could be from Uzumaki lineage and from Senju lineage.

Also true! I always wondered who were the Namikaze since Minato was a beast..

I go for lineage 'tho.

 

[Mr Hiru]

Good read, some valid points, some points which plants seeds of doubt.

There is what I have to add.

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Ninshu

A power that links individuals brought about peace and order.

Leaving leadership of the clan to his brother, Hagoromo stayed in these lands. He fundamentally believed that Chakra was a power that linked everything in the world. Filled with righteous purpose, he set out to spread this message to the people of this land. His teachings became known as Ninshu—the Shinobi creed—and they should have brought about eternal peace and order...

Inheritance

The fate of Ninshu was entrusted to the love of mankind.

Before long, Hagoromo had two children of his own: elder brother Indra and younger brother Ashura. Hagoromo shared the teachings of Ninshu with both of them.

→ Becoming strong thanks to the cooperation of others, Ashura came to understand the essence of Ninshu.
Elder brother Indra inherited all of Hagoromo's power and was a genius from birth. On the other hand, Ashura gained his strength by connecting with others. Hagoromo named the younger brother guardian of Ninshu.

← Recognizing that he was near death, Hagoromo partitioned the power of Ten Tails into the Bijū.

Reincarnation

From the darkness an endless conflict was orchestrated.

Hagoromo had named Ashura the guardian of Ninshu, earnestly hoping that Indra would continue to support his younger brother. Without the cooperation of Indra, he was uncertain whether Ninshu would survive to be inherited by future generations...

However, there were embers smoldering within Indra that his father had overlooked. It was the perfect opportunity for a certain sneering darkness. That darkness—Black Zetsu—whispered to the heartbroken Indra and stoked those embers into a hellfire.

Ninjutsu

Thus Ninshu became Ninjutsu and man was forced to endure eternal war.

Black Zetsu tempted Indra and instilled in him a burning hatred for his father and younger brother. Denying Ninshu and driven by his own genius, he invented Ninjutsu and challenged his younger brother. Indra and Ashura crossed blades time and again, but the flames of their conflict could never be extinguished. Their souls continued to reincarnate over and over, with the reincarnations of each generation meeting the same fate.

Ninshu, the power that linked individuals, became obsolete. Mankind, endowed with Kaguya's dispersed Chakra, brought back the turbulent times and wielded Ninjutsu as a weapon...

↑ Engraved upon the Uchiha's stone tablet is a warning from Hagoromo...

That's all to know about these descendants.

--- I really doubt "Wood Style" is a consequence of being a true Ashura's transmigrant. I think this is an individuality of Hashirama, since he had natural domain over Earth and Water element, just like Yamato (and Yamato is not Ashura's transmigrant, as far as we know).

I mean, if Naruto is also an Ashura's transmigrant. Can we say that Hashirama isn't transmigrant because he didn't master the rasengan? I doubt it... but if Naruto had mastery over earth and water element, he might perfectly use Wood Style, but he didn't have the need to use it, did he?

...anyways, it may not or it might be the case.

--- About the Will of Fire: Cheeky. Finding the peace through love isn't so far from this. It might be an innate feature of Ashura's transmigrants... so I agree.

--- About Senjutsu: I think you're in the right track about this one. The body of the Sage was shown as a man with flame-shaped chakra in chapter 462, just like when Fukusaku explained Sage Mode.

--- ...now, in the end, I say EVERY Ashura transmigrant is a true transmigrant. Hagoromo stated clearly that Naruto had Ashura's chakra, so it is no mistake at all to assume that ALL transmigrants are in fact true transmigrants. They are no alike one of each other, but everyone has some of Ashura's features (Sage mode and the will of peace through love).

 

[Rabbit Teth]

look i got a better theory about the origine of god tree ! wanna cooperate?

I think I worked out something big about the tree which I'm gonna put in my own thread. That said if you want a hand developing a new Shinju thread, then I'd be happy to help. I'm not sure your new theory and my new theory would be compatible (mine's pretty out there TBH) but I have no problem developing opposing threads at the same time. Some people consider working on more than one idea at a time a lack of confidence in any one idea but I think those people have no imagination. PM me what you've got in mind.

 

[Ultimateone]

senju dna is not what made hashirama special. if it was senju dna then madara could have just taken any senju dna to awaken his rennigan, but he didn't. what made hashi's dna special is he was ashura's transmigrant. that means that anything hashi's dna has done in the manga, naruto's has the same possibility of doing. for instance, mokuton is not a kkg. at least, not in the sense that it can be passed down through the generations. from what we can gather from the story, the only reason hashi had mokuton is because he was a ashura transmigrant. that means that naruto should be able to unlock this power as well. remember, naruto at the climax of the manga at his and sasuke's battle is only 17 i think. hashirama didn't unlock mokuton until he was an adult. which means naruto could have unlocked this ability as well and we just never got to see it.

the will of fire is nothing special, it is only the mindset of people that is passed on through the generations. this has nothing to do with being an ashura transmigrant. now being good and working with others could be a trait of ashura's transmigrants as both naruto and hashi have this trait. it was also a defining point of ashura's.

i would also like to point out that senju and uzumaki are related. which basically means at some point, the uzumaki broke off from the senju making their own clan. which would mean they posses the same bloodline in them as the senju. but of course through different breading have their own unique traits. but they are still descendants of ashura. hence why a uzumaki can be an ashura transmigrant as well as a senju.

 

[davidou]

Also true! I always wondered who were the Namikaze since Minato was a beast..

I go for lineage 'tho.

That's often the answer in this manga , and that seems to be the case for transmigration.
All transmigrants are Uchiha or Senju except Naruto who could be from Senju lineage.
So , lineage and blood relation to Hagoromo seems to be a key.

I had a theory over transmigration where transmigrants have to transmigrate at the death of the host , into a baby of their bloodline.

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But the "at the death of the host" part was proven wrong by Hagoromo's words (you can believe those words and you can doubt them) although it went great.
I told that because Tsunade saw Nawaki in Naruto the first time they met , I was thinking that Tsunade was sensing Ashura in Nawaki and Naruto.
If Nawaki wasn't a transmigrant , that add a little stone to the theory of Naruto being a Senju.

i would also like to point out that senju and uzumaki are related. which basically means at some point, the uzumaki broke off from the senju making their own clan. which would mean they posses the same bloodline in them as the senju. but of course through different breading have their own unique traits. but they are still descendants of ashura. hence why a uzumaki can be an ashura transmigrant as well as a senju.

That's not a good deduction , the rest of your post implies that your deduction is correct , but you can't be sure it's correct.