Susanoo arrow- bold who reacts

[TRE MERCER]

Lmao no the hell it's not. Just stop. Please just stop. There is no feat Kisame possesses that surpasses Sasuke's feats at any point of Shippuden when it comes to speed. Danzo's Mokuton is not Kisame. You have no actual feats of Kisame being able to react well enough to it to block with Samehada, just a feat where Danzo used a tech that requires no movement and where Kakashi had to use Kamui. :lol

Except your wrong again. Sasuke got shitted on by Bee in Cqc while Bee couldn't land one single blow on Kisame bar v2 punch and the pencil. Not only that Kisame was only stabbed in his shoulder due to the old man putting him in a sword grudge match. Kisame reacted dodged and counter attacked[

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] 7 tails killer bee the same Killer bee that you said could dodge the arrow.

Kisame can't dodge Susanoo arrow but he can def block it.

Kisame's reaction time is not better, 3T Sasuke reacting to V1 Raikage's attack at point-blank range outstrips anything Kisame has accomplished. Kisame is on a lower speed tier and isn't supplemented by the augmented perception of the Sharingan the way Sasuke is. The only reason Kisame seemingly displayed higher reaction speed is because you distorted the entire premise of the battle and why Kisame dominated Bee in the first place.

None of it was associated with speed, it had everything to do with Kisame thriving off of Bee's chakra and continually getting stronger while Bee grew weaker in comparison. Sasuke isn't tailored for battling Perfect Jinchuuriki yet his reaction feats still eclipsed Kisame's by flipping over V1 Bee while Kisame required assistance from his blade to parry him.

Dodging v1 Ei doesn't put your reaction feats above someone who reacted to 7tailed KB unless you can prove v1 Ei is faster than 7 tailed Killer bee which you can't.

 

[KidGamer65]

Except your wrong again. Sasuke got shitted on by Bee in Cqc while Bee couldn't land one single blow on Kisame bar v2 punch and the pencil. Not only that Kisame was only stabbed in his shoulder due to the old man putting him in a sword grudge match. Kisame reacted dodged and counter attacked[

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] 7 tails killer bee the same Killer bee that you said could dodge the arrow.

Kisame can't dodge Susanoo arrow but he can def block it.

Sasuke got shitted on by the Seven Swords Dance that wasn't used on Kisame. B used his Jinchuuriki powers for the vast majority of that fight so this doesn't even make sense as a comparison.

And B lunged at Kisame. Lunging and top speed Shunshin clearly aren't the same thing. Sasuke reacted to B's Shunshin by bouncing off and behind him. Kisame's feats against Base B obviously aren't as good as that as V1 B in any form >> Base B, and his feat against Max V1 B isn't a feat of him reacting to B's Shunshin, he reacted to and countered a sword jab.

Kisame isn't more reflexive than Sasuke, but the gap isn't large. The only reason he would ever be able to "block" it is because he can see the preparation of the arrow and ready his guard. Otherwise he'd get shot through the chest at close range.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Sasuke got shitted on by the Seven Swords Dance that wasn't used on Kisame. B used his Jinchuuriki powers for the vast majority of that fight so this doesn't even make sense as a comparison.

And B lunged at Kisame. Lunging and top speed Shunshin clearly aren't the same thing. Sasuke reacted to B's Shunshin by bouncing off and behind him. Kisame's feats against Base B obviously aren't as good as that as V1 B in any form >> Base B, and his feat against Max V1 B isn't a feat of him reacting to B's Shunshin, he reacted to and countered a sword jab.

Kisame isn't more reflexive than Sasuke, but the gap isn't large. The only reason he would ever be able to "block" it is because he can see the preparation of the arrow and ready his guard. Otherwise he'd get shot through the chest at close range.

That's my hole point though i never said Kisame could dodge or anything like that all i said is he would be able to block it.

 

[KidGamer65]

That's my hole point though i never said Kisame could dodge or anything like that all i said is he would be able to block it.

But he can't, not in the context of this thread. The thread is to see who reacts and he doesn't react to the speed of the arrow. He reacts to the prep of the arrow. Two different things.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

You're right, but I assumed that your argument pivoted on Kisame's seemingly better performance which had little to do with reaction speed in the first place.

Underline is unreasoned considering 3T Sasuke casually reacted to a much faster Bee's speed.

How does it have little to do with reaction speed? The manga specifically states that Bee was trying to gauge Kisame's reaction [

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]. Kisame displayed the necessary reaction speed and body movement speed to position his body so that sword projectile hit a non lethal area, while simultaneously parrying base Bee's shunshin strike.

A much faster Bee's speed? Where did you conclude that? Kisame had to deal with V1 Bee coming from medium range, which was a far shorter distance then that feat with Sasuke.

 

[FemmeFatale]

Sakura and tsunade can react, but can tank them if needed.

 

[Edogawa]

Considering Pain is much less reactive than a Perfect Sage which was needed to even evade the arrow, I sincerely doubt that.

SM never encountered Susanoo Arrow.

 

[Tantalus Thief]

SM never encountered Susanoo Arrow.

believe he's referring to when SM Kabuto dodged the arrow and cited his nature sensing for the feat.

 

[VVolfVVarrior]

-Pain reacts w/ Shinra Tensei. Can't dodge.
-Nagato is the same.
-Itachi can't dodge, but he can react with Susanoo.
-Gai can dodge in the 7th Gate. No lower. He can react in the 6th with Asa Kujaku whether that'd work or not.
-SM Naruto reacts, but doesn't dodge.
-KN4 reacts, doesn't dodge.
-Sasuke reacts, doesn't dodge.
-3rd Raikage probably dodges. If not he can tank obviously.
-B reacts in any form but doesn't dodge until he uses max V1 or V2.
-Orochimaru doesn't react.
-Jiraiya doesn't react.
-Tsunade doesn't react.
-Deidara dodges with utter ease. He can dive underground faster than Kakashi's Sharingan can visually process. (If you are delusional, in reality he doesn't react)
-Hidan and Kakuzu don't ever react.
-Kisame doesn't react.
-Sakura doesn't.
-Gaara can block w/ sand from his gourd, but not well enough to block it.
-K11 obviously doesn't react.

Btw the people who don't react should be able to mentally react (well, most of them at least), but I listed "don't react" because they have no techniques like Susanoo and Shinra Tensei that can be activated without hand seals.

You wrote that 3rd Raikage probably dodge but SM Naruto only react. But SM Naruto dodged Raikage which does not make sense. :sdo:

 

[Icelerate]

You wrote that 3rd Raikage probably dodge but SM Naruto only react. But SM Naruto dodged Raikage which does not make sense. :sdo:

Say I react to something coming at 25 m/s whereas I move at 15 m/s, that does not mean I can react to something moving at 50 m/s even though the one who moves at 25 m/s can react to it.

 

[VVolfVVarrior]

Say I react to something coming at 25 m/s whereas I move at 15 m/s, that does not mean I can react to something moving at 50 m/s even though the one who moves at 25 m/s can react to it.

That makes absolutely no sense. You all made it sound as if Sussano arrow was moving super sonic speed. Someone who is using lightning armor and was considered one of fasted man alive certainly goes faster then some shitty arrow. After all Sasuke is using crossbow mechanism for firing his arrow. Even though its more comparable to Ballista. Something operating under such primitive mechanics cannot goes with speed comparable to that of Jounin Ninja speed. This all is just one big hype.

 

[KidGamer65]

You wrote that 3rd Raikage probably dodge but SM Naruto only react. But SM Naruto dodged Raikage which does not make sense. :sdo:

Raikage being able to dodge the arrow doesn't mean he's faster than it. Naruto dodging Raikage's lunge from close range doesn't mean he can dodge Shunshin in the same manner. So no, what I said makes perfect sense.

 

[NarutoX28]

That makes absolutely no sense. You all made it sound as if Sussano arrow was moving super sonic speed. Someone who is using lightning armor and was considered one of fasted man alive certainly goes faster then some shitty arrow. After all Sasuke is using crossbow mechanism for firing his arrow. Even though its more comparable to Ballista. Something operating under such primitive mechanics cannot goes with speed comparable to that of Jounin Ninja speed. This all is just one big hype.

Something maneuvering at Jonin level speed wouldn't be capable of challenging Elite Sharingan Users nor would it stagger Sasuke for someone (Kabuto) to evade his Susano'o Arrow if it's as slow as you're implying. It's a high-speed projectile which was conspicuously shown to have broken the sound barrier. That's enough to believe that it's a high-speed projectile.

 

[NarutoX28]

How does it have little to do with reaction speed? The manga specifically states that Bee was trying to gauge Kisame's reaction [

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]. Kisame displayed the necessary reaction speed and body movement speed to position his body so that sword projectile hit a non lethal area, while simultaneously parrying base Bee's shunshin strike.

A much faster Bee's speed? Where did you conclude that? Kisame had to deal with V1 Bee coming from medium range, which was a far shorter distance then that feat with Sasuke.

There's a notable difference between "reaction speed" and "reaction pattern." Bee was gauging the pattern of his movements, so he could react accordingly and properly constrain Kisame's movements.

What I'm saying is that you took a very misguided approach in validating Kisame's superiority when Sasuke gracefully dodged V1 Bee's speed, rendering your argument on Kisame's ability to react Base Bee moot.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

There's a notable difference between "reaction speed" and "reaction pattern." Bee was gauging the pattern of his movements, so he could react accordingly and properly constrain Kisame's movements.

What I'm saying is that you took a very misguided approach in validating Kisame's superiority when Sasuke gracefully dodged V1 Bee's speed, rendering your argument on Kisame's ability to react Base Bee moot.

Obviously grasping at straws here. A reaction pattern entails one reaction speed, as that is the very basis to reacting. "Bee was gauging the pattern of his movements", and what is the basis of Kisame's movements? The speed at which he is moving. Base Bee was gauging Kisame's reaction pattern and realized he wasn't suitable, because Kisame easily reacted and out-maneuvered his gauging approach. He then boosted his speed capabilities with V1, and failed again, resulting in utilizing the V2 boost.

And what you're saying just blatantly disregarded my point. Kisame reacted to V1 Bee as well, and he did so from an extremely close starting distance, which didn't allow for the amount of time Sasuke was given to react to Bee.

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That's quite literally just about a 5 meters distance between V1 Bee and Kisame. 5 meters that Kisame was given to react to V1 Bee's charge, which he did so by casually altering his arm position to swipe V1 Bee of his feet and strip him of his chakra.

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Sasuke's feat in comparison does not provide reason to say his reaction is on a higher tier then Kisame's.

 

[NarutoX28]

Wow, actually wasn't notified of this, so sorry for the late reply:

Obviously grasping at straws here. A reaction pattern entails one reaction speed, as that is the very basis to reacting. "Bee was gauging the pattern of his movements", and what is the basis of Kisame's movements? The speed at which he is moving. Base Bee was gauging Kisame's reaction pattern and realized he wasn't suitable, because Kisame easily reacted and out-maneuvered his gauging approach. He then boosted his speed capabilities with V1, and failed again, resulting in utilizing the V2 boost.

It's ironic because the example you presented isn't sufficient in illustrating how Kisame overwhelmed Bee with his reaction speed. All you're presenting me is an example of Kisame competing with Base Bee and being able to react to him which is something I've never denied. Nevertheless, I will concede on this because

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I also discovered that Naruto's assessment of the situation entails that it was a combination of Reaction Speed + Pattern, so it'd be dishonest of me to deny this.

Moving on ...

And what you're saying just blatantly disregarded my point. Kisame reacted to V1 Bee as well, and he did so from an extremely close starting distance, which didn't allow for the amount of time Sasuke was given to react to Bee.

I disregarded it because I wanted you to acknowledge that you took a misguided approach in validating Kisame's reactions. Reacting to Base Bee who reacted to V1 Raikage doesn't denote Kisame's superiority here when Sasuke accomplished the same feat. To be honest, I'm still a little dumbfounded by this considering Raikage's reaction speed surpasses Minato's, so to argue that Kisame and Base Bee casually reacted to someone on Raikage's caliber is unreasonable.

If you don't like my debating style by spotting "holes" in an argument, then that's fine, just say it and I'll get straight to the point.

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That's quite literally just about a 5 meters distance between V1 Bee and Kisame. 5 meters that Kisame was given to react to V1 Bee's charge, which he did so by casually altering his arm position to swipe V1 Bee of his feet and strip him of his chakra.

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Sasuke's feat in comparison does not provide reason to say his reaction is on a higher tier then Kisame's.

This is something I never denied, but this still doesn't compare to Sasuke's feat where he flipped over V1 Bee multiple times at close- range and by Bee's admission,

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. Reacting to V1 Bee by shifting his body to the side doesn't compare to Bee's affirmation of Sasuke's reflexes nor would it compare to out-maneuvering V1 Raikage during their clash. Speed encompasses a large portion of reactions and Sasuke's above him, garnering a speed stat of 4.5 (presumably a 5 since MS Sasuke > CS2 Sasuke) excluding the Sharingan whereas Kisame has a 4 in Speed. According to Kishimoto's perspective, Sasuke's reactions are simply higher and this isn't bashing Kisame at all given the emphasis Kishimoto has placed on Sasuke's speed via Databook.

 

[Haizaki]

If one looks closely at this scan, didn't Kisame physically raise Samehada while V2 B was running at him?

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In the middle panel of the first scan, you can see Kisame's chest completely unblocked but before V2 B could hit him, the case was different.

 

[TRE MERCER]

But he can't, not in the context of this thread. The thread is to see who reacts and he doesn't react to the speed of the arrow. He reacts to the prep of the arrow. Two different things.

Baseless. If the battle starts and Susanoo arrow is already aimed and then fired Kisame blocks it plane and simple.

 

[TRE MERCER]

If one looks closely at this scan, didn't Kisame physically raise Samehada while V2 B was running at him?

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In the middle panel of the first scan, you can see Kisame's chest completely unblocked but before V2 B could hit him, the case was different.

This not only that you can see the drawings behide Killer indicating that he's in movement.

 

[KidGamer65]

If one looks closely at this scan, didn't Kisame physically raise Samehada while V2 B was running at him?

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In the middle panel of the first scan, you can see Kisame's chest completely unblocked but before V2 B could hit him, the case was different.

That impact around B probably means that he had just taken off, and Kisame has those same impact marks around Samehada so they probably acted at the same time, meaning Kisame didn't really react to B's charge he reacted to the sight of B's mode.

Baseless. If the battle starts and Susanoo arrow is already aimed and then fired Kisame blocks it plane and simple.

Based on nothing as usual.