Spoiler: Izanagi and Izanami DO NOT need senju dna

[Baka Sennin]

good explanation, that makes sense, although it's based on the assumption that tobi is not an uchiha.

but if tobi's not an uchiha, that means he is either senju, or uzumaki, because his izanagi is far superior to danzo's.

 

[Blaze Release]

good explanation, that makes sense, although it's based on the assumption that tobi is not an uchiha.

but if tobi's not an uchiha, that means he is either senju, or uzumaki, because his izanagi is far superior to danzo's.

Just like how we dont know if tobi is an uchiha we also dont know that he has hashirama's dna on his body like danzo and madara, therefore for all you know he might be talking non sense.

Somebody explained it better than i did using ka as an example.
Basically izanami and izanagi can be used by an uchiha, but the technique gets a power boosts with senju dna to increase the time duration and this can explain why it was said that oro experimented on danzo and thats why he has hashirama's dna.

Secondly it was said that ka takes 10 years, yet with hashirama's cells the time gap greatly reduces, which clearly hints that senju cells just gives the technique a boost but isnt needed to activate the technique, at least if you are an uchiha

 

[SAGE JINCHURIKI]

nice theory but i believe that we should wait for IZANAMI to be explained and not jump into conclusions.........but all thesame, nice.

 

[Nidaime Pupil]

True but not only was it called a uchiha forbidden technique because its from the sharigan, but its said even for the uchiha it was banned. Secondly nobody is certain whether tobi is an uchiha or not. What we are certain is that danzo isnt, but also clearly had hashirama's cells implanted in him, yet tobi who said you need both hasnt shown us to have implanted hashirama's cells into his body. So far only edo madara and danzo have shown us this.

So for all you know, tobi might indeed be an uchiha, but lied about hashirama's dna, because until we see hashirama's face on his body, like danzo and madara we cannot fully assume that and go with what somebody like tobi has said

Good point. It may be safe to assume that the technique was written on the tablet that Uchihas could read and then was labeled forbidden (the tablet was passed down form the Sage after all who obviously could use this technique being both Uchiha and Senju.)

You bring up an interesting point with the underlined. I thought this was pretty much wrapped up already? Tobi was thought to have gained Hashirama's power when everyone thought he was Madara. This aside, he has Zetsu who is part Hashirama. When his hand melted away and looked like white zetsu gunk and his constant ripping his own limbs off with the same effect, I thought everyone agreed he is part Zetsu? This would mean that he is indeed part Hashirama and has the senju DNA required to use Izanagi.

 

[-Broly-]

what if itachi and sasukes lineage go back to the senjus though? like they are in the direct line of one of the sages sons

 

[Baka Sennin]

Just like how we dont know if tobi is an uchiha we also dont know that he has hashirama's dna on his body like danzo and madara, therefore for all you know he might be talking non sense.

Somebody explained it better than i did using ka as an example.
Basically izanami and izanagi can be used by an uchiha, but the technique gets a power boosts with senju dna to increase the time duration and this can explain why it was said that oro experimented on danzo and thats why he has hashirama's dna.

Secondly it was said that ka takes 10 years, yet with hashirama's cells the time gap greatly reduces, which clearly hints that senju cells just gives the technique a boost but isnt needed to activate the technique, at least if you are an uchiha

i agree that senju dna improves the duration of izanagi/izanami and reduces the recovery time of ms techniques. but the fact is, if tobi just has hashirama's dna and implanted sharingan, his izanagi wouldn't be 5 times better than danzou's. imo he has implanted hashirama's dna, his body showed signs of that vs minato and the aburame nano-bug user. but he's definitely not the same as danzo, he has the blood of the sage, otherwise his izanagi would not be that good.

now, if he's an uchiha, why would he say that izanagi requires senju dna? even though he has it. it can only mean two things: 1. you do in fact need senju dna or 2. he is not uchiha. personally, given the circumstances when he was talking to konan, i wouldn't be surprised if the former actually holds true.

 

[Uchiha Josephus]

what if itachi and sasukes lineage go back to the senjus though?

This could have happened if there was a marriage between a Senju and Uchiha ... but I don't think so.

like they are in the direct line of one of the sages sons

Well of course they are, they are Uchiha

 

[6PathsofKami]

Like nidaime pupil said tobis body is somewhat like white zetsu and we know white zetsu was made from hashirama dna and hashirama is a senju so tobi does have senju dna.

 

[Raito]

To use Izanagi with the Sharingan, you need Uchiha and Senju genes.
To use Izanami, you maybe need to be an Uchiha with Mangekyou Sharingan.

So Uchiha + Senju -> The Sharingan can unlock Izanagi
and Uchiha + Mangekyou Sharingan > you can unlock Izanami

Izanagi was always used with the Sharingan, but Itachi uses his Mangekyou Sharingan.

 

[Blaze Release]

i agree that senju dna improves the duration of izanagi/izanami and reduces the recovery time of ms techniques. but the fact is, if tobi just has hashirama's dna and implanted sharingan, his izanagi wouldn't be 5 times better than danzou's. imo he has implanted hashirama's dna, his body showed signs of that vs minato and the aburame nano-bug user. but he's definitely not the same as danzo, he has the blood of the sage, otherwise his izanagi would not be that good.

Spoiler

now, if he's an uchiha, why would he say that izanagi requires senju dna?

even though he has it. it can only mean two things: 1. you do in fact need senju dna or 2. he is not uchiha. personally, given the circumstances when he was talking to konan, i wouldn't be surprised if the former actually holds true.

Tobi did say he holds a perfect izanagi whislt danzo's was incomplete, which could also hint that he might be an uchiha, but along with hashirama's dna a true uchiha can use the technique to its fullest.

At the highlighted part, ive no idea but i wouldnt put it past him. Or as i said izanami's requirements might be different from izanagi. This might sound crazy, but maybe the use of the ms might also tie in somewhere since danzo and tobi sacrificed a normal sharigan, maybe itachi who had the ms activated, things might turn out differently

 

[Zato]

Well explained but I do not agree. You are basing off a hint that because it is called an Uchiha kinjutsu it can thus be used by Uchiha's not possesing Hashirama's DNA. But let me ask you a question. What else would they call it? It is a sharingan technique so of course it is going to be labeled an Uchiha Technique (no other clan had the sharingan) and I think just calling it an Uchiha technique is not enough evidence to claim that Uchiha's could use the technique without Hashirama DNA but I can see where you would get this idea from. Again, what else would they call it Uzumaki secret technique. If it is a sharingan only technique of course they are going to call it an Uchiha technique.

I think stronger evidence is pointed out by the fact that Tobi blatantly said in order to use Izanagi one must have BOTH Senju and Uchiha DNA. That being said I think Itachi, the genius, will have come up with some way to utilize Hashirama DNA since 1. He's a genius, and 2. He said It's already prepared.

Unless of course Tobi is not an Uchiha as you said in this thread then he is Tobirama and I am super excited - of course this is not possible but I'm just sayin. xd

Tobi said you needed both senju and uchiha DNA to use izanagi but he was half wrong. Danzo is proof of this. Danzo was able to use izanagi through his arm having injected senju DNA with sharigans attached It. That right there presents a flaw in what Tobi stated. Uchihas are probably able to use this ability without senju DNA but on the flip side outsiders can only perform this by having injecting senju cells within them selves since izanagi is a SO6P tech.

 

[Uchiha Josephus]

To use Izanagi with the Sharingan, you need Uchiha and Senju genes.
To use Izanami, you maybe need to be an Uchiha with Mangekyou Sharingan.

So Uchiha + Senju -> The Sharingan can unlock Izanagi
and Uchiha + Mangekyou Sharingan > you can unlock Izanami

Izanagi was always used with the Sharingan, but Itachi uses his Mangekyou Sharingan.

Sure, why not

 

[6PathsofKami]

Tobi said you needed both senju and uchiha DNA to use izanagi but he was half wrong. Danzo is proof of this. Danzo was able to use izanagi through his arm having injected senju DNA with sharigans attached It. That right there presents a flaw in what Tobi stated. Uchihas are probably able to use this ability without senju DNA but on the flip side outsiders can only perform this by having injecting senju cells within them selves since izanagi is a SO6P tech.

Izanagi isnt a so6p jutsu. It was created by the uchihas based on creation of all things jutsu of so6p.

 

[Raito]

Izanagi isnt a so6p jutsu. It was created by the uchihas based on creation of all things jutsu of so6p.

No, Rikudo Sennin has created Izanagi as a symbol of his power to create things and give them life.

 

[MrLukyso]

Guys you need Hashiramas DNA for Izanagi, why do you think then Madara was fighting in the fight to death with Hashirama to gain his abilities ? Because he could use Izanami and Izanagi..

 

[Nidaime Pupil]

Tobi said you needed both senju and uchiha DNA to use izanagi but he was half wrong. Danzo is proof of this. Danzo was able to use izanagi through his arm having injected senju DNA with sharigans attached It. That right there presents a flaw in what Tobi stated. Uchihas are probably able to use this ability without senju DNA but on the flip side outsiders can only perform this by having injecting senju cells within them selves since izanagi is a SO6P tech.

Um what? Tobi is not an outsider he has Senju DNA and for the sake of this argument I'm assuming he's an Uchiha but he could not be.

Like I said he has Senju DNA all I know is Blaze please read and respond to this.

You must be registered for see links

 

[Raito]

Guys you need Hashiramas DNA for Izanagi, why do you think then Madara was fighting in the fight to death with Hashirama to gain his abilities ? Because he could use Izanami and Izanagi..

It's unclear. Maybe he wanted to gain more power. Or maybe he could awake the Rinnegan by this way, if he gains Senjus DNA on top of his Uchiha DNA and EMS. I don't think Madara has done this for only Izanagi.

 

[Avani]

Stupid Tobi who declared that he could use Izanagi since he had Senju DNA.


Now I wonder why Itachi who has Shisui' eye in his possession and can use Izanami didn't tak care of That fool. :|

 

[Baka Sennin]

Tobi did say he holds a perfect izanagi whislt danzo's was incomplete, which could also hint that he might be an uchiha, but along with hashirama's dna a true uchiha can use the technique to its fullest.

At the highlighted part, ive no idea but i wouldnt put it past him. Or as i said izanami's requirements might be different from izanagi. This might sound crazy, but maybe the use of the ms might also tie in somewhere since danzo and tobi sacrificed a normal sharigan, maybe itachi who had the ms activated, things might turn out differently

could be. i hope kishi slows down a little and explains both izanami and kabuto's new powers (i think suigetsu might have something to do with that)

 

[Raito]

Stupid Tobi who declared that he could use Izanagi since he had Senju DNA.


Now I wonder why Itachi who has Shisui' eye in his possession and can use Izanami didn't tak care of That fool. :|

Kotoamatsukami was needed for Sasuke in the case he'll turn bad after Itachis death and will attack the village. And who knows whether Izanami would be enough to stop Tobi? I think Tobi has more knowledge about the Sharingan and its techniques, can also use Izanagi to turn the reality into an illusion, maybe Izanami too.