Spoiler: Izanagi and Izanami DO NOT need senju dna

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squigles

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Here's the deal:

Chapter 478-479 are the ones that introduce Izanagi and explain what the technique is and how it works, which is the chapter where Danzou is fighting Sasuke. Those chapters came before chapter 510, which is the chapter where Tobi uses Izanagi against Konan.

Chapter 510 is the chapter everyone is referencing when they say 'Izanagi requires senju DNA' and they tend to completely forget about chapter 478 and 479.


Chapter 478, page 10:

Tobi: 'I see, no wonder, I knew there must be some secret that allowed a non Uchiha to control that many sharingan. Damn you Orochimaru, you must have kept in contact with Danzou.'


Chapter 478, page 11:

Tobi: 'It looks like he implanted the Shodai's cells (Hashirama) in order to boost his energy.'

Notice how he doesn't say 'He must have implanted Hashirama's cells to unlock Izanagi?' The link between Hashirama and Uchiha is the stamina/spiritual energy that Hashirama's cells have.


Chapter 478, page 14:

Tobi: 'It looks as if there are 10 sharingan, and the shodai's cells.'


Chapter 478, page 15:

Tobi: 'The powers of both the Uchiha and Hashirama, with them he can control the Kyuubi. He's after Naruto too.'


Chapter 478, page 16:

Tobi: 'No doubt about it, this is the dojutsu forbidden even among the Uchiha. Izanagi.'

At this point, Tobi has made it clear that Danzou did not acquire Hashirama's DNA and then have it implanted into his body so that he can unlock Izanagi. He did so to increase his stamina/spiritual energy so he could control the 9 tails using all those Sharingan.


Chapter 479, page 2:

Tobi: 'Izanagi, for the briefest of moment (a few seconds), the user can take disadvantages like wounds or even death and turn them into nothing more than a dream.'


Chapter 479, page 3:

Tobi: 'And then takes his own attacks and advantageous objects, and makes them real.'


Chapter 479, page 4:

Tobi: 'Complete control over one's own personal reality, the ultimate genjutsu meant only to be used on oneself. And afterwards, the eye of one who uses Izanagi will be stricken blind, and closes tight, forever.


Chapter 479, page 5

Tobi: 'But he's got a huge stock. There's a limit on how long one can use Izanagi. He must have let Orochimaru experiment on him to somehow force the technique to last longer.

This entire conversation amounts to Tobi discussing the way Izanagi works (it's an Uchiha technique that's forbidden), and how Danzou implanted Hashirama's cells to increase his spiritual energy and stamina enabling him to control so many sharingan.

At no point in those chapters does Tobi state that Izanagi REQUIRES Hashirama's DNA in order to work, or that non Uchiha require Hashirama's DNA to use Izanagi. It's a logical fallacy for anyone to assume either of those scenarios require Senju DNA.

Tobi also talks about the duration of Izanagi lasting only a few seconds, but Danzou managed to increase the duration to 1 minute per eye.

If Izanagi required Senju DNA, then it wouldn't be an Uchiha technique, and it certainly wouldn't be a forbidden technique, because the only Uchiha that would know about it would be Madara.

Obviously, at some point during Uchiha clan history, the technique was discovered, used, and deemed 'forbidden,' long before anyone named Madara or Hashirama was ever alive. Because of that, there would not have been any wood element release users who could have been around to provide senju DNA in order to 'discover' Izanagi.

Nope, it's completely ridiculous to imply that Izanagi requires Hashirama's DNA.

1. You're a moron who doesn't know that you can buy a manga in a book store.
Basically, until you go buy vol 53 in english, scan the pages where Tobi talks about Izanagi, and then upload those pages here, you're a ****ing retard for even bringing it up.

If that never happens, then we both know you're full of shit.
 

~WastelandSociety~

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Basically, until you go buy vol 53 in english, scan the pages where Tobi talks about Izanagi, and then upload those pages here, you're a ****ing retard for even bringing it up.

If that never happens, then we both know you're full of shit.

So basically your saying Viz Media can't translate Japanese, when its a Japanese company.LOL Fail hell go on


And watch that anime video Episode 253 - The Bridge to Peace at 4:57 he starts talking about Izanagi.


also watch this video too
Episode 210 - The Forbidden Visual Jutsu
at 9:07
He talks about how Danzo needs the cells so he can have the energy to use that many eyes,etc.

Don't call me a retard :flaw: when you didn't even know a thing about Viz Media being a japanese company. And you stated that the manga is translated poorly by "fans". Sorry Viz Media isn't a fan,moron.
Also they won't state false information.

If you want to read vol 53 then go buy one -_-

Now again the manga (and may I add) anime does say so.
 

squigles

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So basically your saying Viz Media can't translate Japanese, when its a Japanese company.LOL Fail hell go on
No, what I am saying is that until you provide proof positive from an official source (such as Viz Media) about what you're saying (which is that the manga and anime translations by fans are 100% accurate all the time), then you're a complete moron for even saying it.


And watch that anime video Episode 253 - The Bridge to Peace at 4:57 he starts talking about Izanagi.


also watch this video too

So I watched both videos, and confirmed exactly what I said before - TRANSLATIONS THAT ARE DONE BY FANS ARE NOT 100% ACCURATE AND ARE PRONE TO ERRORS IN BOTH TRANSLATIONS AND DELIVERY.

Not only that, but the episode that you linked does not suggest AT ALL, that Izanagi requires Hashirama's DNA.

It instead suggests that Danzou needed Hashirama's DNA AND the Sharingan in order to be able to control Kurama. None of the dialogue in that episode even links Izanagi and Hashirama, outside of Hashirama's DNA being able to increase the duration of Izanagi.

So get over your idiocy and grow a pair of testicles. I'm still waiting for you to come up with Vol 53 scans that were translated into English by Viz, which supports your claim that the translations on our fansites are accurate.

Don't call me a retard when you didn't even know a thing about Viz Media being a japanese company. And you stated that the manga is translated poorly by "fans". Sorry Viz Media isn't a fan,moron.
Also they won't state false information.
I'm calling you a retard because you're reading comprehension is terrible. I've known about Viz Media since they started publishing DBZ over 10 years ago, I even have original copies of DBZ that was released here in America in Japanese (back when I was studying Japanese in High School).

The point of contention was never 'Viz Media doesn't publish English versions of Naruto.' The point of contention was that the version of the manga and anime that we see here on this website, and other fan websites, are NOT official versions published by Viz Media or other affiliates of Shonen Jump/Tokyo TV.

The point of contention is that the versions of the manga and anime that you find ON THIS WEBSITE are prone to inaccurate translations BECAUSE they are done by fans, and not a company working in official capacity.

The point of contention is that if you directly compared the versions of the anime and the manga that you find here on this website, to versions published by a company like Viz Media, you will find many many differences in the translations, up to and including information being left out of the fan ones.

The last point of contention is the fact that you've sat here trying to convince me that just because Viz Media publishes Naruto in English, that it somehow proves that the translations done by fans within the versions of the manga and anime that we see on this website, are automatically correct. Which is why I've called you a retard.

I don't care if you buy the manga or DVDs from Viz Media. I don't care if you buy every single piece of released content from them.

Until you provide factual data which supports your claims, you're a retard for even trying to make them. You're claiming that the Viz Media translations are 100% identical to the fan translations we get here each week, now it's time for you to either prove that claim, or shut the **** up about it.

Until then, feel free to jump from something really high.
 

~WastelandSociety~

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No, what I am saying is that until you provide proof positive from an official source (such as Viz Media) about what you're saying (which is that the manga and anime translations by fans are 100% accurate all the time), then you're a complete moron for even saying it.





So I watched both videos, and confirmed exactly what I said before - TRANSLATIONS THAT ARE DONE BY FANS ARE NOT 100% ACCURATE AND ARE PRONE TO ERRORS IN BOTH TRANSLATIONS AND DELIVERY.

Not only that, but the episode that you linked does not suggest AT ALL, that Izanagi requires Hashirama's DNA.

It instead suggests that Danzou needed Hashirama's DNA AND the Sharingan in order to be able to control Kurama. None of the dialogue in that episode even links Izanagi and Hashirama, outside of Hashirama's DNA being able to increase the duration of Izanagi.

So get over your idiocy and grow a pair of testicles. I'm still waiting for you to come up with Vol 53 scans that were translated into English by Viz, which supports your claim that the translations on our fansites are accurate.



I'm calling you a retard because you're reading comprehension is terrible. I've known about Viz Media since they started publishing DBZ over 10 years ago, I even have original copies of DBZ that was released here in America in Japanese (back when I was studying Japanese in High School).

The point of contention was never 'Viz Media doesn't publish English versions of Naruto.' The point of contention was that the version of the manga and anime that we see here on this website, and other fan websites, are NOT official versions published by Viz Media or other affiliates of Shonen Jump/Tokyo TV.

The point of contention is that the versions of the manga and anime that you find ON THIS WEBSITE are prone to inaccurate translations BECAUSE they are done by fans, and not a company working in official capacity.

The point of contention is that if you directly compared the versions of the anime and the manga that you find here on this website, to versions published by a company like Viz Media, you will find many many differences in the translations, up to and including information being left out of the fan ones.

The last point of contention is the fact that you've sat here trying to convince me that just because Viz Media publishes Naruto in English, that it somehow proves that the translations done by fans within the versions of the manga and anime that we see on this website, are automatically correct. Which is why I've called you a retard.

I don't care if you buy the manga or DVDs from Viz Media. I don't care if you buy every single piece of released content from them.

Until you provide factual data which supports your claims, you're a retard for even trying to make them. You're claiming that the Viz Media translations are 100% identical to the fan translations we get here each week, now it's time for you to either prove that claim, or shut the **** up about it.

Until then, feel free to jump from something really high.


And my point is : The manga does say so...

I'm not talking about the poorly translated mangas you see here.
I'm talking about the official mangas from Viz Media. Which by the way you stated that I didn't buy any manga cause you assume the only mangas that are translated to english are made by "fans" on websites.
Sorry but your comments have been invalid every since you said that :sy:

You didn't even know you can buy mangas in the store in the first place.

So,again "the manga does say so" and when some people say that it's because they bought the mangas and are basing their information from that.

Hell, I have a friend that's from japan and say they didn't change the information that the author is trying to state.

You need to get a clue,and stop being a moron.

:scorps:
 

Prince Charles

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The whole needing senju dna to do izanagi i think thats bull crap i mean come on just listen to who talked about it tobi= cronic liar like who the f is that no namer and a dead old guy name danzo
ill take the manga for word tobi even saids it against kohan and shes about to die.
 

squigles

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And my point is : The manga does say so...

I'm not talking about the poorly translated mangas you see here.
I'm talking about the official mangas from Viz Media. Which by the way you stated that I didn't buy any manga cause you assume the only mangas that are translated to english are made by "fans" on websites.
Sorry but your comments have been invalid every since you said that :sy:

You didn't even know you can buy mangas in the store in the first place.

So,again "the manga does say so" and when some people say that it's because they bought the mangas and are basing their information from that.

Hell, I have a friend that's from japan and say they didn't change the information that the author is trying to state.

You need to get a clue,and stop being a moron.

:scorps:
You're a brick wall of stupidity. You don't bother reading anything you quote, and even if you did, you still don't comprehend it. When did I ever say 'they don't sell manga in a store?' I believe I said 'they don't come out with English translated version of the manga at the same time they release the Japanese version in Japan.'

It's a completely different statement from what you're trying to imply. If you weren't so goddamn retarded, you wouldn't be responding at all.

Lastly, I've explained it in this thread and in others, about how the context of the conversations within Japanese language are implied.

There is no word 'a' in Japanese, just like there is no word 'the.' When they refer to something it's 'this,' 'that,' or 'that over there.' In the original manga, they refer to it as 'kono jutsu' meaning 'this technique,' with the context of the technique being 'this particular instance of it, and not others.'

If he had been talking about Izanagi in general, he wouldn't have referred to it as 'this technique.' That's why the translations are poor. They don't pickup the entire story and from time to time, they leave out crucial information like the context of a discussion.

But I don't expect a retard like you to know and understand any of this.
 

~WastelandSociety~

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You're a brick wall of stupidity. You don't bother reading anything you quote, and even if you did, you still don't comprehend it. When did I ever say 'they don't sell manga in a store?' I believe I said 'they don't come out with English translated version of the manga at the same time they release the Japanese version in Japan.'

It's a completely different statement from what you're trying to imply. If you weren't so goddamn retarded, you wouldn't be responding at all.

Lastly, I've explained it in this thread and in others, about how the context of the conversations within Japanese language are implied.

There is no word 'a' in Japanese, just like there is no word 'the.' When they refer to something it's 'this,' 'that,' or 'that over there.' In the original manga, they refer to it as 'kono jutsu' meaning 'this technique,' with the context of the technique being 'this particular instance of it, and not others.'

If he had been talking about Izanagi in general, he wouldn't have referred to it as 'this technique.' That's why the translations are poor. They don't pickup the entire story and from time to time, they leave out crucial information like the context of a discussion.

But I don't expect a retard like you to know and understand any of this.
Right,you are a brick wall of stupidity :sy:

Except for the fact that you didn't buy the manga.

Idiot...
That right there^ makes it sound like you didn't know you can buy mangas.
Otherwise you wouldn't call me an idiot .



Viz Media is a Japanese entertainment company,also located in the US.They know their own language -_-


So again "retard",
I already said they re-word some things so it makes sense ,other then that they don't change the information that the author is trying to state.

So let me call Viz Media and say they translated the manga "poorly". lol
:scorps:

P.s your reading comprehension is terrible,
So I watched both videos, and confirmed exactly what I said before - TRANSLATIONS THAT ARE DONE BY FANS ARE NOT 100% ACCURATE AND ARE PRONE TO ERRORS IN BOTH TRANSLATIONS AND DELIVERY.

Not only that, but the episode that you linked does not suggest AT ALL, that Izanagi requires Hashirama's DNA.

It instead suggests that Danzou needed Hashirama's DNA AND the Sharingan in order to be able to control Kurama. None of the dialogue in that episode even links Izanagi and Hashirama, outside of Hashirama's DNA being able to increase the duration of Izanagi.

So get over your idiocy and grow a pair of testicles. I'm still waiting for you to come up with Vol 53 scans that were translated into English by Viz, which supports your claim that the translations on our fansites are accurate....

1.
I never stated to you that Izanagi requires Hashirama's DNA.
I only said the mangas I buy are not made by fans,and the manga does say so.

2.
Though I do enjoy reading mangas by *********** which " have no errors at times" (such as spelling). But like I said they stop showing Naruto due to SOPA (I think). I 'm not claiming they are 100% accurate,only the ones I buy.


Edit: Oh *********** is showing Naruto mangas agian:)
Also this is getting nowhere,so I will just leave you with; The manga that I buy does say so. LOL take care.
 
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