Spoiler: Izanagi and Izanami DO NOT need senju dna

[kibaclaw]

Itachi pulls his robe aside and reveals....... the HEAD OF HASHIRAMA on his chest!!!!!

rofl j/k

 

[-Broly-]

This could have happened if there was a marriage between a Senju and Uchiha ... but I don't think so.



Well of course they are, they are Uchiha

think about all the great rivalries like the hatfields and mccoys and in romeo and juliet theres always someone marrying into the rival family and i think that definetly happened here

 

[Uchiha Josephus]

Stupid Tobi who declared that he could use Izanagi since he had Senju DNA.


Now I wonder why Itachi who has Shisui' eye in his possession and can use Izanami didn't tak care of That fool. :|

Tobi himself said that he'd probably be dead if Itachi had known the truth about him

 

[Zato]

Izanagi isnt a so6p jutsu. It was created by the uchihas based on creation of all things jutsu of so6p.

It's Bases off of creation of all things. Its pretty obvious why sharigans lose their light when they use izanagi. They are using an ability that through evolution they shouldn't be able to. Sharigans are not the true eyes of the SO6P. Uchihas version of Izanagi is different then the SO6P version according to Tobi. This is why I think you don't need senju DNA to unlock the Rinnegan.

 

[MrLukyso]

It's unclear. Maybe he wanted to gain more power. Or maybe he could awake the Rinnegan by this way, if he gains Senjus DNA on top of his Uchiha DNA and EMS. I don't think Madara has done this for only Izanagi.

Well yes, he succeded he gain Rinnegan and some Hashiramas I powers I bet like at Yamatos level ? But because of that he was also able to use Izanagi, I bet that give some part in the plan since madara knew about it for sure.. After the fight madara became two of the six paths in one, also able to use IZanagi.. :noc:

 

[6PathsofKami]

No, Rikudo Sennin has created Izanagi as a symbol of his power to create things and give them life.

Lol no izanagi is created by the uchihas not by the so6p. Izanagi is based on creation of all things jutsu which the sage used not some petty version like izanagi, they are different. People seem to think so6p created all the jutsus 0.o

 

[Blaze Release]

Stupid Tobi who declared that he could use Izanagi since he had Senju DNA.


Now I wonder why Itachi who has Shisui' eye in his possession and can use Izanami didn't tak care of That fool. :|

There could be many reasons why itachi didnt take care of tobi.
For one tobi has already said that an ms technique kamui is useless against him

Secondly tobi has izanagi therefore itachi's izanami can be countered

Thirdly such a technique is bound to take a boat full of your chakra and itachi in his sick state, if he was to use sucha technique that alone could leave him on a the verge of 0 chakra

Fourthly, he decided to die by sasuke's hands and wasnt confident that in his sick state he would kill tobi.

fifthly itachi has said that he failed trying to do everything on his own and that could be the reason why he left tobi to sasuke

 

[Sasuk3Uchiha]

Good Work; Makes Perfect Sense, Especially Since No One Knows Whether Tobi Is Actually An Uchiha Or Not.

+Rep

 

[iSpeak]

Hmm, nice post Blaze I can see where you are coming from.
The way I see it is, Izanagi is a Yin-Yang release Jutsu (It turns injuries/death into and imagination). So in order to use it, you must have powerful Yang chakra inside you aswell as a Sharingan. Uchiha inherited the Yin (imagination) from SO6P (which is why they are proficient in genjutsu etc) and the Senju inherited the Yang (Vitality) from the SO6P (which is why they are good in medical jutsu, and why Hashirama was able to make his plants come to life). But it may not specifically be Senju dna that you need. Naruto has alot of Yang chakra aswell after taking control of the Kyuubi's chakra (Minato sealed the Yang half of the Kyuubi's chakra inside him). And he was also able to make Yamato's trees come to life. So maybe the Kyuubi's chakra would also have the same affect :shrug: I doubt there is any Uchiha (or anyone for that matter) who naturally has as powerful Yang chakra as a senju, which is why Tobi said Senju dna is required.
But it would still be considered a Uchiha jutsu since it is impossible to do without a Sharingan.

 

[Avani]

There could be many reasons why itachi didnt take care of tobi.
For one tobi has already said that an ms technique kamui is useless against him

Secondly tobi has izanagi therefore itachi's izanami can be countered

Thirdly such a technique is bound to take a boat full of your chakra and itachi in his sick state, if he was to use sucha technique that alone could leave him on a the verge of 0 chakra

Fourthly, he decided to die by sasuke's hands and wasnt confident that in his sick state he would kill tobi.

fifthly itachi has said that he failed trying to do everything on his own and that could be the reason why he left tobi to sasuke

Why would you even mention Kamui? That's got nothing to do with Shisui's eye or Itachi.

What counter Tobi had for Shisui's eye is still not clear.. there are things which are still not explained. As Tobi used a similar tech to control Mizukage once upon a time. but he doesn't really have it today- he was mad when Danzo destroyed it.

If Izanagi and Izanami counter each other same goes against Tobi as well. So it would be about who was faster.

Itachi never left Tobi for Sasuke. He hoped they never met. He left Tobi to Naruto when he returned as an Edo.

Only thing that could hinder Itachi was lack of chakra though at that time Tobi didn't had rinnegan either and if Itachi could use shisui's tech he could win.

It was a rhetorical post anyway. If Itachi took care of Tobi what would Naruto do.

 

[siyo]

Hmm, interesting take on the situation, but I still see it as an inconsistency from Kishi since Izanami and izanagi are siblings,and thus, should have the same requirements.I believe Tobi is an Uchiha and he stated pretty clearly that you needed both.

 

[Shady Doctor]

Ahhh what if itachi does have senju dna,tobirama's too be exact..
that would fit perfect,gained tobirama's dna thus gaining water affinity and acces to izanami,,but his body couldnt handle the senju dna .that would explain his ramdom sickness...

 

[Raito]

What counter Tobi had for Shisui's eye is still not clear.. there are things which are still not explained. As Tobi used a similar tech to control Mizukage once upon a time. but he doesn't really have it today- he was mad when Danzo destroyed it.

As I said already before, Kotoamatsukami was needed for Sasuke in order to control him if he turned bad after Itachis death.

I'm pretty sure that for Izanami a Mangekyou Sharingan, used by an Uchiha, is needed, while for Izanagi a normal Sharingan, used by a person which combines Uchiha and Senju, is necessary.

 

[xxSAGExx]

This chapter has basically confirmed by beliefs and bare with me ill explain. Izanagi has been explained as a doujutsu forbidden even amonst the uchiha;

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Izanam has been called a pair to izanagi and it would make sense. Meaning its also a forbidden doujutsu even amonst the uchiha and will most likely carry the same drawback which is the loss of an eye;

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Now both have been called forbidden techniques amonst the uchiha which clearly hints that its an uchiha technique that an uchiha can use.

This is the power of izanagi;

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Tobi then explains in detail that for izanagi you need both senju and uchiha, but in the same page he called it an uchiha forbidden technique;

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Tobi then says basically says that danzo was experimented on to increase the time of izanagi, he also said danzo's was incomplete;

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Now alot of people still think you need senju or should i say hashirama dna and that might be the requirements of izanagi only and not izanami, but since they are a pair it would make sense to say that you also need senju dna, but that isnt the case.

Both techniques have been said to be uchiha forbidden techniques which makes sense to assume that they can use it without hashirama dna. The only reason why people think you need hashirama dna is because danzo and tobi needed, but i ask you this, are they uchiha's.?. Danzo for a fact isnt an uchiha, but we still dont know about Tobi and tbh this chapter has hinted that he might not be an uchiha if he needed senju dna to use an uchiha forbidden technique.

I believe a true uchiha with an uchiha body and shairgan can use it without senju dna, whilst people with shairgan's but do not have uchiha blood/body/dna, need senju dna to use it. Example itachi has said that an uchiha blood is what is required for the sharigan to work best;

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This clearly also ties into the fact that a sick itachi spammed ms technique's quiet alot against sasuke and even activated susano's full form. Same as sasuke after spamming several ms techniques, he was still able to activate susano's full form against kakashi whilst kakashi at full health and 100% used one ms technique and this happened;

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What im basically saying is that it could be that only true uchiha's with uchiha body and blood can use their forbidden techniques, whilst outsiders with shairgan need senju dna

Nice job on your research, but I have a few questions. I think Tobi is an Uchiha or at least have their DNA in himself because he's shown to feats that Itachi or Sasuke haven't, taking control over Kurama with 3 tomoe Sharingan (like Madara) when the tablet states the MS is required to control a Bijuu. Also Tobi also spoke of how Danzo wasn't a true Uchiha and couldn't use it like an Uchiha.

Kakashi has low chakra reserve so when he use his MS he suffers from the chakra lost and the MS effects.

 

[Raito]

Nice job on your research, but I have a few questions. I think Tobi is an Uchiha or at least have their DNA in himself because he's shown to feats that Itachi or Sasuke haven't, taking control over Kurama with 3 tomoe Sharingan (like Madara) when the tablet states the MS is required to control a Bijuu. Also Tobi also spoke of how Danzo wasn't a true Uchiha and couldn't use it like an Uchiha.

Kakashi has low chakra reserve so when he use his MS he suffers from the chakra lost and the MS effects.

It's unclear whether Tobi is an Uchiha but he definitely possesses both, Uchiha and Senju DNA. The Mangekyou Sharingan isn't necessary at all to control tailed beasts, the Sharingan by itself can take control over minds, whether human beings, animals or Bijus - Tobi and Madara are an example. The Mangekyou Sharingan is just stronger. And I remember Tobi said only that Danzo wasn't able to control Senju Hashiramas power and thus was only able to use an incomplete Izanagi (Chapter 510, page 12).

 

[minatoboss]

inzagi need senju and uchiha

 

[The Riddlerr]

Interesting theory, but not enough facts for my liking to back up your claim.

 

[Avani]

As I said already before, Kotoamatsukami was needed for Sasuke in order to control him if he turned bad after Itachis death.

I'm pretty sure that for Izanami a Mangekyou Sharingan, used by an Uchiha, is needed, while for Izanagi a normal Sharingan, used by a person which combines Uchiha and Senju, is necessary.

In other words you are saying that Itachi let Tobi be because Sasuke might turn bad and then he would need it? Sasuke planned to go back till Tobi intercepted him. If he would taken care of Tobi, Sasuke would have returned to Konoha and a world war would have been avoided. So we are back to square one. But then Tobi was there for Naruto to handle since the start- Minato sealed Kyuubi for it. We can only speculate over it- what and how it would have happenned. :shrug:

I agree with your analysis. In the chapter 510 kishi stated otherwise and Tobi went on and on about how he got Izanagi since stealing Senju DNA.

Kishi probably forgot it - goes in the list of manga mistakes* or Izanami works slightly differently than Izanagi.

This chapter hasn't resolved anything. Just added a few more questions and scope for speculations.

And I am half asleep. If it's not making sense- wait for me to wake up. I will reply if I still felt like doing it after that..if not move on. lol

 

[Blaze Release]

There could be many reasons why itachi didnt use izanami on tobi. Izanami from what we knows takes the users eye. Now its said that susano dwells in both eyes of ms users. We know that itachi wanted to not only die by sasuke's hands, effectively allowing sasuke to gain the ms, but also getting rid of oro's curse mark.

Now if susano dwells in both eyes and itachi was to use izanami on tobi before fighting sasuke, he wouldve lost an eye and with that wouldnt not have access to susano. But that somewhat defeats the purpose of his fight with sasuke because the only sealing feat he has is the totsuka sword which is equipped to susano therefore if he doesnt have both eyes, he doesnt have susano. If he doesnt have susano he doesnt have the totsuka sword. If he doesnt have the totsuka sword he cannot get rid of the curse mark.

All ive said is an assumption, since nobody knows why.

 

[Raito]

Yeah but Itachi didn't even know that Tobi has known the truth about him. He was even surprised when Naruto told him that Tobi has known the truth and also told them. Thus Kotoamatsukami was anyway meant for Sasuke in the case he would turn bad after all. That was his kind of safeguarding.