[Discussion] Smoker vs pica

[BLACKBOLT]

Let me clear one thing people don't get. Vergo was a beast. Vergo>>Pica.

There is no Vergo>>Pica. That's a personal opinion.

He was the first Corazon. Was strong enough to kill next Corazon and was longest serving person in Donquixote family. He was the right hand man of Doffy. Doflamingo trusted him enough to take on Law and Luffy both. His strength is noticed by the fact he was able to crush Smoker even after tanking two diable jambe's and countershock.

The flashback showed that Doflamingo met the top executives including Vergo, all at the same time.
And the heart seat doesn't mean you're the strongest, take Doflamingo's brother for instance.

He was still alive and speaking after that cut he got and Law used his devil fruit infused with Haki which is the only reason he won and it pretty much is common sense Law>Zoro. Losing to Vergo isn't a bad deal. Someone like Pica other than that Golem stuff which is too slow to even hit Smoker is not defeating him and other then that Golem Pica has done nothing close to above average impressive. Plus Smoker can fly and isn't it pretty obvious he can sense him and what good that Golem can do to Smoker? Smoker only needs to track and hit the main body not "destroy whole of it". And by the looks of feat Smoker is much better combatant who atleast fought with people rather than gettting one shotted by someone who is below Law and Luffy.

Vergo was used to establish and hype FBH. This is Oda telling us of the Donquixote's top executives level.
It was to show their toughness, by tanking attacks from Sanji and Smoker.
Just because Smoker and Sanji failed to defeat Vergo, it doesn't mean he's stronger than Pica.
That's like downplaying Zoro's feat, by making Pica look weaker than Vergo, just because Zoro defeated him.
The top executives are Doflamingo's strongest fighters, and Oda doesn't need to show us all of them beating or tanking attacks, from Smoker and Sanji.
By showing Vergo's level and toughness, we can have a little idea of how strong and tough the top executives really are, and their so called opponents.

Btw Ussopp can sense Aura of people miles away. Sensing aura of living person predicting it's move while being blind (fujitora and rayleigh against Luffy) feeling presence is COO. There was no one around Pica who's aura or presence Zoro required to feel.

Usopp, Fujitora and Zoro showed different ways of observation, something that Smoker wasn't shown doing.

It's pretty much clear that around Pica there was nobody and Zoro can't fly or anything but Zoro wasn't even able to detect Pica in castle. The major fail. He was closing eyes again and again and I hoped he'll show some beast COO but it didn't happen. It's clear Sanji is weak in COA and Zoro is weak in COO and both are strong vice versa in haki. Not a bad thing since they both are strong in their own areas and what they want.

Just because Oda stated that Zoro's specialty is CoA, it doesn't mean his CoO is weak.
You're making a huge assumption there.

 

[Blackleg Sanji]

Are you serious? Smoker does not have better CoA feats than Zoro.

No bro I said and meant Smoker has better COA feats for himself than COO?

There is no Vergo>>Pica. That's a personal opinion.

The flashback showed that Doflamingo met the top executives including Vergo, all at the same time.
And the heart seat doesn't mean you're the strongest, take Doflamingo's brother for instance.

Vergo was used to establish and hype FBH. This is Oda telling us of the Donquixote's top executives level.
It was to show their toughness, by tanking attacks from Sanji and Smoker.
Just because Smoker and Sanji failed to defeat Vergo, it doesn't mean he's stronger than Pica.
That's like downplaying Zoro's feat, by making Pica look weaker than Vergo, just because Zoro defeated him.
The top executives are Doflamingo's strongest fighters, and Oda doesn't need to show us all of them beating or tanking attacks, from Smoker and Sanji.
By showing Vergo's level and toughness, we can have a little idea of how strong and tough the top executives really are, and their so called opponents.

Usopp, Fujitora and Zoro showed different ways of observation, something that Smoker wasn't shown doing.

Just because Oda stated that Zoro's specialty is CoA, it doesn't mean his CoO is weak.
You're making a huge assumption there.

Just because Vergo the first Corazon defeated Rosinante means Rosinante is weak? Corazon is first mate place in Doffy family. Vergo wasn'tCorason anymore because he went undercover and Doffy trusted brother as succesor. In that case Zoro is first mate because he's weak but badass? You're playing down Vergo and overrating Pica.

Pica got one shotted by a person who should be well obviously below Law. Vergo was capable of defeating Law if only he didn't left him for long. Pica has zero fighting skill by feats. It should be common sense except Vergo no executive was worth noting. Vergo defeated Smoker after tanking one of Laws strongest attack and was still alive in a condition much worse than Pica who fainted at one single attack. Unless Pica had something to show how am I supposed to believe that man is above a Person who Doffy considered to be strong enough to beat Law and Luffy. Doffy is smart and intelligent not cocky. Vergo lost because he left Law alone for way too long to create bigger room and advantage. We didn't even see Vergo's full potential. Pica was running away from Zoro heck he was pissing pants most of the time. Zoro failed to detect Pica in castle it's not even debatable.

And lol I'm big time Zoro fan and won't downplay any of Zoro's feat. Infact in simple words that city cut is best feat so far after time skip. It's about damn overrated Pica who fans still can't see was a weako compared other top people. Luffy hasn't shown full haki body does that mean his haki is weaker than Pica? xD So hasn't Zoro. There's no hype in full body haki. It's a fan made assumption. Haki that Luffy and Zoro possess is mastery to have haki where you want and with decent amount. Not a weak full body haki. His haki easily was great enough in Gap with Pica that Pica couldn't survive a single hit with even haki on. And you think Zoro would've done that to Smoker? One shot? Seriously? You should start reading One Piece all over then because Smoker actually stood upto people stronger then Zoro 1vs1 no hiding and for much longer. And is still and will be Luffy rival in future. Though he's not really much tough right now.

 

[Bogard]

It was Zoro at fault that his COO wasn't good enough to detect Pica. Smoker definitely has shown better COA feats so I can't say much but if Smoker has decent COO he'll easily manage to take out Pica with efforts though.

Aisa(an observation expert) could feel nothing going on outside while she was inside a snake. Enel couldn't feel Luffy's presence while inside a snake despite his observation(boosted by his devil fruit ability) is one of the best. Sanji couldn't feel Kinemon's torso that was about to be eaten by a shark just above him, despite observation on. Bigger presences can dwarf small presences to greater extents that even observation user experts could miss the mark. It's not just for Zoro and Pica's golem is massive, bigger than a city. To pinpoint the original location into all this obviously won't be easy if possible at all, let alone if he becomes the earth itself

 

[BLACKBOLT]

Just because Vergo the first Corazon defeated Rosinante means Rosinante is weak? Corazon is first mate place in Doffy family. Vergo wasn'tCorason anymore because he went undercover and Doffy trusted brother as succesor. In that case Zoro is first mate because he's weak but badass? You're playing down Vergo and overrating Pica.

I actually see them as equals. All the executives powerful in their own way (Rosinante not included since he's a filler, since Vergo ended up joining the marines).

Pica got one shotted by a person who should be well obviously below Law. Vergo was capable of defeating Law if only he didn't left him for long. Pica has zero fighting skill by feats. It should be common sense except Vergo no executive was worth noting. Vergo defeated Smoker after tanking one of Laws strongest attack and was still alive in a condition much worse than Pica who fainted at one single attack. Unless Pica had something to show how am I supposed to believe that man is above a Person who Doffy considered to be strong enough to beat Law and Luffy. Doffy is smart and intelligent not cocky. Vergo lost because he left Law alone for way too long to create bigger room and advantage. We didn't even see Vergo's full potential. Pica was running away from Zoro heck he was pissing pants most of the time.

Vergo's capable of beating Law because he had his heart, even an admiral would lose if someone's holding their heart.
Law was restricted. But when he got his heart back, he ended the fight right away, just like he ended Smoker in less than a chapter.

FBH is one of the best protection against attacks shown. Law and Zoro cutting a guy in FBH only proves that they're capable of doing so. A feat that Smoker and Sanji's not. They both failed to take out Vergo, who didn't even bother to use KOKA to protect himself.

Zoro failed to detect Pica in castle it's not even debatable.

So did Luffy. Does that mean that Luffy's CoO is weak too?

And lol I'm big time Zoro fan and won't downplay any of Zoro's feat. Infact in simple words that city cut is best feat so far after time skip. It's about damn overrated Pica who fans still can't see was a weako compared other top people. Luffy hasn't shown full haki body does that mean his haki is weaker than Pica? xD So hasn't Zoro. There's no hype in full body haki. It's a fan made assumption. Haki that Luffy and Zoro possess is mastery to have haki where you want and with decent amount. Not a weak full body haki. His haki easily was great enough in Gap with Pica that Pica couldn't survive a single hit with even haki on. And you think Zoro would've done that to Smoker? One shot? Seriously? You should start reading One Piece all over then because Smoker actually stood upto people stronger then Zoro 1vs1 no hiding and for much longer. And is still and will be Luffy rival in future. Though he's not really much tough right now.

Pica didn't survive Zoro's attack because Zoro was stronger than him, not because he's weak. Vergo would've suffered the same fate.
The fact that Smoker got beaten by 1 haki infused attack from Vergo, only proves that Smoker is not a tank against strong haki infused attacks.
Smoker was only strong pre time skip, when all his opponents couldn't touch him due to his DF powers. Until Smoker shows us that he can deal with a formidable opponent with haki, then I won't change my view regarding him.

I hate to say this but judging by what's shown in the manga, Zoro's above Sanji, Smoker and Pica (who's Vergo's level). Until proven wrong.

 

[Red Flag X Drake]

Pica wins. Smoker doesn't have the attack power.

 

[BLACKBOLT]

Aisa(an observation expert) could feel nothing going on outside while she was inside a snake. Enel couldn't feel Luffy's presence while inside a snake despite his observation(boosted by his devil fruit ability) is one of the best. Sanji couldn't feel Kinemon's torso that was about to be eaten by a shark just above him, despite observation on. Bigger presences can dwarf small presences to greater extents that even observation user experts could miss the mark. It's not just for Zoro and Pica's golem is massive, bigger than a city. To pinpoint the original location into all this obviously won't be easy if possible at all, let alone if he becomes the earth itself

I think even Viola herself, doesn't know where Pica's real body is. Her ability is like an enhance version of CoO.

 

[Blackleg Sanji]

Aisa(an observation expert) could feel nothing going on outside while she was inside a snake. Enel couldn't feel Luffy's presence while inside a snake despite his observation(boosted by his devil fruit ability) is one of the best. Sanji couldn't feel Kinemon's torso that was about to be eaten by a shark just above him, despite observation on. Bigger presences can dwarf small presences to greater extents that even observation user experts could miss the mark. It's not just for Zoro and Pica's golem is massive, bigger than a city. To pinpoint the original location into all this obviously won't be easy if possible at all, let alone if he becomes the earth itself

I was generally referring to Zoro inside castle.

I actually see them as equals. All the executives powerful in their own way (Rosinante not included since he's a filler, since Vergo ended up joining the marines).

Vergo's capable of beating Law because he had his heart, even an admiral would lose if someone's holding their heart.
Law was restricted. But when he got his heart back, he ended the fight right away, just like he ended Smoker in less than a chapter.

FBH is one of the best protection against attacks shown. Law and Zoro cutting a guy in FBH only proves that they're capable of doing so. A feat that Smoker and Sanji's not. They both failed to take out Vergo, who didn't even bother to use KOKA to protect himself.

So did Luffy. Does that mean that Luffy's CoO is weak too?

Pica didn't survive Zoro's attack because Zoro was stronger than him, not because he's weak. Vergo would've suffered the same fate.
The fact that Smoker got beaten by 1 haki infused attack from Vergo, only proves that Smoker is not a tank against strong haki infused attacks.
Smoker was only strong pre time skip, when all his opponents couldn't touch him due to his DF powers. Until Smoker shows us that he can deal with a formidable opponent with haki, then I won't change my view regarding him.

I hate to say this but judging by what's shown in the manga, Zoro's above Sanji, Smoker and Pica (who's Vergo's level). Until proven wrong.

I know this is the main problem of people. People use Pica as shield to prove Zoro above Sanji by a big margin. Well Vergo had his heart and was capable of defeating him or competing without it lost only because he left Law for long which allowed him to establish bigger room. Pica bleeded, Vergo didn't.

And still do you think Pica is even that fast enough to keep attacking Law before he could even say room? Vergo was confident to say "Let me remind you who's the master here". Law was lucky in that fight that he didn't got hurt much. Vergo speaking in the condition he was more than enough to prove he's far more durable than Pica specially when he could tank Countershock and still win against Smoker. Pica has "zero" fighting skill shown.

FBH is not Zoro, Law or Luffy thing. Haki mastery is where you want it. Pica was scared and weak enough to last few seconds in a fight against someone who is weaker than Law. Pica couldn't even scratch Law with even his heart. Unless being coward and crushing it instantly. Law could've taken back his heart from Pica in blink unless Pica even proved a bit of reflexes or speed in his fight which he didn't.

For Zoro to one shot Pica if you think he can defeat Smoker is like saying Zoro would one shot Sanji, Smoker and Vergo. Some major BS. Smoker was decent enough to stand up to Law unless losing heart. He'd have lost but was easily giving some run for money. Law>Zoro and I repeat again and same Smoker lost to Vergo and Law won against Vergo because of his fruit. Can you imagine Pica even doing tickling to Law outside Golem seriously? That featless person who has already been proved weak as in MUCH weaker than Vergo is being used by people to prove Zoro>>>Sanji, something which is highly unobvious.

Unless you interpret words and showings completely differently it's Vergo>>Pica without even thinking. And about Zoro portrayal he has been looking stronger than almost anyone does it generally mean he's stronger than Law and Luffy? No. In fact me myself am a Zoro fan and believe Zoro>Luffy with that cut feat. But Sanji is up there too for me man and his fights being used to hype other people is just pathetic by Oda. Even Zoro could've been used against Doffy or Vergo (by letting Vergo break one of his arm) and then letting the poison gas come in. No but the Monster Trio for now is Luffy, Law and Zoro. Vergo was a Law set up fight, Monet was a girl and Caesar obviously reserved for Luffy. Sanji has been shifted out of major focus or moments or even a fight heck he hasn't even been on one single panel since one year and will probably be used to hype Big Mom by being captured. Oda is using him as "hyping up character" character. People forget he thought Vergo was "pushover" at first and how Doffy acknowledged his strength.

Pica didn't fought back and was one shotted, Monet and Hody are not even note worthy. I'm not making any stuff up or assuming anything. It's complete settled fact from feats what I say. People are too blind to notice Pica outside Golem and even inside Golem he's shit and nothing more than Fodder attacking person. If Smoker can stand against people stronger and deadlier than Zoro that too for much longer than Pica it's not and shouldn't even be up for debate. Else I'd agree to disagree from here. And nothing I say is "assumption" here it's everything maybe just maybe one should understand with common sense.