Uzumaki Macho
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Smoker was surprised to see Vergo use FBH, that implies that Smoker can't use it. There is no evidence that Pica can't put Haki on his golem,
[Discussion] Smoker vs pica
- Thread starter kyubbi sagemode
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It's funny how Pica's loss changed your perception, especially when prior to you were wanking that a full body Haki is superior.
I guess that means Bellamy's Haki is stronger than Vergo's now because his full body Haki is also featless.
Contradicting yourself.
That's not a feat of superiority.
So smoker's Haki is strong enough to fend off law, but Vergo who beat the hell out of smoker can't?
Law didn't have his heart and he still won, smokers Haki helped him prolong the inevitable. That's not dignified feat
Hitting Vergo and doing virtually nothing to him is not a feat, it's the complete opposite if anything.
Sanji never said Vergo used Haki.
I don't care what you feel what he can and can't use, the manga clearly shows him wielding a blade.
See now he was well adept enough to parry with Zoro for some time.
Don't ask ridicously questions, as long as he has Haki anything Pica has will harm a logia.
Smh, what?
White launch is a named attack too, and unlike Smoker Sanji did not use Haki.
You must be out of your freakin mind if you think smokers physical stature competes with the likes of Sanji.
Haki doesn't increase your natural physical strength, luffy didn't need Haki to beat up giants he's naturally able to do that.
Smoker needs Haki to damaged fight Vergo because it is a weapon, an armor used for protection. His physical strength is still piss poor compared to Sanji.
I don't count running around running around in circles while using a devil fruit negator as a mean of parrying.
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They would need to be of equal grounds first, not law pushing back smoker with every flailing of his arm.
Proves my point exactly, he's being physically overwhelmed by law.
That being the Pica easily physically overwhelms smoker no contest.
You're describing a guy who is looking at some pretty pictures of one sided stomp and call it parrying.
Lol Ironic
You're suppose to use selective reading, I'm evaluating one person. Duh.
Punk Hazard
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That was only in the anime, in the manga Smoker had no specific reaction to Vergo's FBH.
Also, Pica most likely can't cover his Golem in Haki unless he's in the area he's coating. This is because people haven't been yet shown to coat things that are a distance from them. If Pica is in the head of the Golem, it's very unlikely he can coat its leg or fist.
No my perception was never full body haki suddenly made someone stronger my perception has always been the level of haki someone has before applying full body haki.
Bellemy's Haki broke through Luffy's...so in essence it's not featless.
Nope.
No but like Tashigi showed if you don't have a certain level of Haki Law will just cut you like he did with her, Vergo's loss wasn't due to his haki level but his arrogance and underestimation of Law's devil fruit power.
How is Law not having his heart relevant? No Smoker's Haki allowed him to clash with Law evenly otherwise Law would have just cut through him. Not to mention sending someone flying with a punch and an elbow is certainly feat especially when that said guy is described to be like hitting a steel wall.
Yeah and? I never said Sanji did.
Wow...he showed that he uses a blade that must mean he's a top notch swordsman...he has no feats in his actual swordsmanship and clashing with Zoro isn't a feat hell Tashigi did that.
Yet he can't adapt Haki to his huge golem form which brings us back to the fact his golem form can't harm Smoker duh.
Smoker never used white launch to hit Vergo in his fight if you actually payed attention to the fight it was a normal punch and elbow Smoker hit Vergo with.
And why is that? In fact I'd argue Smoker's physical stature is better considering Smoker was able to take hits from Vergo without his bones breaking apart.
Well I'd argue a normal haki punch from luffy is probably weaker than a named attack from Sanji so what you're saying isn't that much of a surprise. The fact that Smoker was able to launch Vergo across the room with a single punch and elbow is an impressive physical feat.
Not to mention haki does make your physical blows stronger if we go by what you're implying then you're saying Smoker was able to send Vergo flying with his natural strength.
Well considering this is a person who has the ability to cut a sword in half and shambles it out of an opponents hand I'd say trading blows with Law is impressive. Also again you showed your inability to read the entire Law vs Smoker fight was Smoker physically being stronger than Law leading Law into strategic plan of blinding Smoker and taking his heart.
So not only can you not read a manga correctly you can't read my responses correctly either? I'm fairly certain if you don't rush past my response and take your time to read what I put you'd see I said Smoker physically overwhelmed Law...
On what grounds? Pica in his actual physical body has no strength feats other than his huge torso however when has that been a true indicator of strength?
Yep that's selective reading you only read the outcome of the Law vs Smoker fight rather than the actual context behind it, think. use your brain for once why would Law retreat to a strategy that blinded Smoker if he was so superior in strength. If Law was as superior as you describe he would have done what he did to Tashigi to Smoker.
Yeah that's selective reading your only reading the parts that defend your argument and the parts that don't your either choosing to ignore them or blatantly misinterpreting them to avoid the obvious.
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Nope, that's not what you posted when you and other members were aying Vergo has superior haki than the strawhat crew.
Think a year back, you were one of them.
No it didn't
His haki was still visible.
That's like saying Law broke through Doffy's haki because he made him bleed:
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Look at the words in bold.
It's contradicting
Because if that was the case, Vergo wouldn't of been cut in half in the first place.
Lol not even close when Sanji just kicked Vergo through one.
And clashing with somebody means nothing, considering that Pica and Zoro clashed too.
It's just an interception.
Oh wow, well I guess Smoker clashing with law is a big deal too?
The fact that he was able to do battle with Zoro for that while already hints of he can use a blade.
That hardly even matters if luffy with third gear haki couldn't touch Pica's real body. Duh
Smoker can't even break a pink let alone Pica's upper torsoe. At least with Pica, within his Assimilated form the real body can move around the earth and supply the attack needed to bisect smoker with that blade.
Sort of like Senor Pink in a way but with immense strength, superior haki, and a six ft blade.
white launch is when he extends his arm in white smoke as an attack, Vergo already noted that he was expanding his smoker either way. Sanji also kicked Vergo with diablo jambei but it was never noted in the dialogue bubble.
Anytime smoker extends his smoke, he is using his devil fruit:
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Well besides Sanji blowing vergo through a steel wall and smoker knocking down vergo a meter away.
Sanji was still mobile and able to utilize his legs after kicking vergo around.
Sanji didn't end up like this:
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On the floor, not able to move a single muscle.
Sanji did better
He kicked a steel man through a steel wall.
Smoker hits him like a few meters is nothing. And Sanji's accumulation of strength pre timeskip till now still greatly beats Smoker by miles.
Read what I said.
Haki doesn't increase your natural strength.
great strength=/=knock out blows.
Smoker essentially used his haki to push back Vergo, same concept of Bellamy's fodder haki pushing back luffy. And Bellamy admitted that Luffy's haki is stronger.
Luffy's haki sent Doflamingo flying to, so comparing an armored arm to a bare body is pointless.
I repeat, running around in circles isn't looking for clear shots doesn't make you physically stronger:
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Attacking from behind doesn't make you physically stronger, it makes you a coward.
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Look above, I shouldn't have to repeat myself
Pica crushed buildings where as smoker has not.
Sigh, this is sad.
I read the context of the battle and the only thing you were able to get out of this is that without a strong haki, you can't get cut by Law.
Vergo has stronger haki than Smoker, yet he got cut by Law's devil fruit.
Next time you think for once before justifying yourself with weak round a bout retorts.
jiraiya lives
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Pervy Wrath
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Haven't bothered to read all the posts, but there's no way I can see Smoker defeating him. It takes a certain skill to defeat Pica, and Smoker doesn't have it. Even Luffy wouldn't be able to take him. None of them have a way of cornering Pica. Smoker doesn't have any large scale attacks, either.
But if you were to say Pica has no way entering his golem form, then yeah, he could quite possibly take him down. But there's just no way he'd be able to defeat him on Dressrosa. But that's not to say Pica can defeat him, either. Pica's moves are slow and they seem to be easy to read. I think Smoker would be able to dodge them. But I think Smoker would eventually lose, since I think the fight might be more straining on his endurance than it would be for Pica.
But if you were to say Pica has no way entering his golem form, then yeah, he could quite possibly take him down. But there's just no way he'd be able to defeat him on Dressrosa. But that's not to say Pica can defeat him, either. Pica's moves are slow and they seem to be easy to read. I think Smoker would be able to dodge them. But I think Smoker would eventually lose, since I think the fight might be more straining on his endurance than it would be for Pica.
xanonymosx
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i can agree with every thing you said exept this , luffy has the best counter for pica zoro cuts and that still leaves a huge amount of rock for pica to hide in (that`s why he had to use binary search to find him) but luffy demolishes all he needs to do is using coo to get a general location and then spam EGG pica would have no place to run for and he will have to accept dieng in the most brutal way (he deserves it anyway)
Mephew D Kensei
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I say Pica mid diff.
I know without haki there is 99% probability u cant hurt a logia, but logia r not truly intangible which is kinda why they cant walk thru walls n such. Pica with his freakishly large golemn cld infact swat Smoker into the sea.
I know now some non believers got me ranked high on the crazy metre but here me out. All the attacks we've seen used on logia have been those with contact point area(s) relatively no larger than the body size area of the logia or put simply cant cover their entire body on the striken side. Logia can let attacks pass thru them but what if the attack is way too large? Kizaru being pushed back by the force of an explosion is an example though it harmed him not just think if one cld manipulate these events and dunked him into the sea.
This wld probably work better with a mid air Smoker if Pica tries it.
#RockGolemn>>>>>allLogia
I know without haki there is 99% probability u cant hurt a logia, but logia r not truly intangible which is kinda why they cant walk thru walls n such. Pica with his freakishly large golemn cld infact swat Smoker into the sea.
I know now some non believers got me ranked high on the crazy metre but here me out. All the attacks we've seen used on logia have been those with contact point area(s) relatively no larger than the body size area of the logia or put simply cant cover their entire body on the striken side. Logia can let attacks pass thru them but what if the attack is way too large? Kizaru being pushed back by the force of an explosion is an example though it harmed him not just think if one cld manipulate these events and dunked him into the sea.
This wld probably work better with a mid air Smoker if Pica tries it.
#RockGolemn>>>>>allLogia
I think Pica, takes this High diff.
Firstly smokers. fists would be cabbage compared to Pica's rocks. Also even smoker jute is useless considering, Pica is a paramecia and its difficult to pin-point him anyways
But It would difficult for Pica, because Smoker is a logia, so he will have to come out in his Full-body state to fight him, and I think that is where pica will win.
So I think this will be a High diff fight anyway you look at it.
Firstly smokers. fists would be cabbage compared to Pica's rocks. Also even smoker jute is useless considering, Pica is a paramecia and its difficult to pin-point him anyways
But It would difficult for Pica, because Smoker is a logia, so he will have to come out in his Full-body state to fight him, and I think that is where pica will win.
So I think this will be a High diff fight anyway you look at it.
Yeah I do think Vergo has superior haki to the crew the only exception maybe Luffy however considering Bellamy broke through Luffy's haki it's not looking good. My argument here is Full body haki is only formidable if the person using it has strong haki.
Difference is Law was using a sword it's a canon fact that sharper objects are harder to block than blunt hits as Luffy stated on fishman island. Fact is after the punch Luffy had blood coming out of his mouth indicating it did damage to him.
It's not contradicting if you consider the context behind my reasoning. Law's powers aren't limited to his cutting ability which was what defeated Vergo. Tashigi didn't have a haki level to fight Law full stop she would have been took apart. Law's powers stem from his DF ability not his own haki. What I meant when I said Vergo's loss wasn't due to his haki level I meant that Law's DF powers had exceeded also you took my quote way out of context again to favor your argument yes Vergo's Haki was no match for Law's DF however Vergo trying to tank the hit was his ultimate downfall not his haki level.
Well then it's an even more impressive feat then for Smoker if Vergo is stronger than a steel wall I fail to see your point in this regard or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing on everything I say?
Who are you talking about clashing Smoker or Sanji?
Well considering Law is stronger than Zoro and that Law is almost pretty much invincible against someone his level in his room I think it's a more impressive feat clashing Law rather than clashing with Zoro.
Wow he has a sword it doesn't mean he's an expert swordsman last time I checked the one who was the swordsman in the crew was Diamante wasn't he the one who trained Law in the way of the sword? Pica is just muscle headed freak with a sword he showed no feats or skill with it other than briefly clashing blades with Zoro who wasn't serious.
Then were at the fact yet again Smoker can't harm Pica in his golem and Pica can't harm Smoker in his golem either.
Yeah I'm sure that fight plays out nicely in your head however if it was so easy then Pica would have done it to Zoro, and considering I consider Smoker to be faster than Zoro I doubt he'll be caught off guard by Pica.
Also Pica in his actual body has no 'immense strength' feats nor does he have 'superior haki' feats and that long ass blade isn't impressive Arlong had a long blade and it was crushed by Luffy's hands.
Yeah I know what white launcher is...however the moves Smoker used when hitting Vergo was not white launcher it was an unnamed normal blow.
The only move that did any real noticeable damage to Vergo however was a named attack unlike the other which was a sneak attack on Vergo.
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Vergo was still standing after he was 'blown' into the wall. Not to mention nice underrating 'a meter' really?
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It's still more impressive to leave your enemy on the floor laid out rather than kicking them into a wall where they are still standing up.
Please. Sanji was not kicking Vergo around Sanji was at best faster but he was fighting a losing battle a single non haki kick almost shattered his leg and Sanji was certainly not 'alright' which he noted himself.
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Yeah how cute when Sanji gets hit by Vergo's Haki infused bamboo stick then you can compare his leg almost broke off a non haki kick I'm fairly certain had Sanji took a shot to the chest like that he wouldn't have stood up at all.
No sending someone who is like a steel wall across the room and laying him out on the floor is more impressive than kicking someone who was still stood up afterwards.
Read what I said.
Not really haki enhances someone's strength and allows them to hit harder, Smoker has impressive natural strength as well and you saying Sanji has greater strength without haki is purely speculation at best not to mention your own opinion you have nothing to compare the two.
That one page alone discredits what you've stated. Smoker pinning Law to the ground with pure strength alone indicates physically Smoker is superior, especially since Law was trying to fight back.
No it indicates Smoker is physically superior at the fact Law evaded from going to close combat with Smoker. Smoker cornering Law who was moving further away is not the sign of a coward but shows Smoker is being smart with DF power.
Where? Show me where Pica's 'real' body crushed a building stop comparing Pica's golem strength to his actual physical body.
No what I got out of the battle is if you have a certain level of haki Law's DF power won't cut you however if Law's power in his DF is strong enough he can. Again my point has never been Vergo's haki level was strong enough to match Law's cutting power.
Law cut vergo purely because Vergo took the attack head on, not to mention it was clearly one of Law's strongest slashes and had Vergo not been confident in his haki he would have dodged.
Blackleg Sanji
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Uzumaki Macho
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Blackleg Sanji
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It was Zoro at fault that his COO wasn't good enough to detect Pica. Smoker definitely has shown better COA feats so I can't say much but if Smoker has decent COO he'll easily manage to take out Pica with efforts though.
How will Smoker destroy a mountain size golem if he doesn't have a strong attack capable of destroying a city or mountain size golem?
Plus how is he going to block FBH Pica (with or without a sword) when he got destroyed by Vergo, with one haki infused attack?
Uzumaki Macho
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Blackleg Sanji
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Let me clear one thing people don't get. Vergo was a beast. Vergo>>Pica.
He was the first Corazon. Was strong enough to kill next Corazon and was longest serving person in Donquixote family. He was the right hand man of Doffy. Doflamingo trusted him enough to take on Law and Luffy both. His strength is noticed by the fact he was able to crush Smoker even after tanking two diable jambe's and countershock.
He was still alive and speaking after that cut he got and Law used his devil fruit infused with Haki which is the only reason he won and it pretty much is common sense Law>Zoro. Losing to Vergo isn't a bad deal. Someone like Pica other than that Golem stuff which is too slow to even hit Smoker is not defeating him and other then that Golem Pica has done nothing close to above average impressive. Plus Smoker can fly and isn't it pretty obvious he can sense him and what good that Golem can do to Smoker? Smoker only needs to track and hit the main body not "destroy whole of it". And by the looks of feat Smoker is much better combatant who atleast fought with people rather than gettting one shotted by someone who is below Law and Luffy.
Btw Ussopp can sense Aura of people miles away. Sensing aura of living person predicting it's move while being blind (fujitora and rayleigh against Luffy) feeling presence is COO. There was no one around Pica who's aura or presence Zoro required to feel.
It's pretty much clear that around Pica there was nobody and Zoro can't fly or anything but Zoro wasn't even able to detect Pica in castle. The major fail. He was closing eyes again and again and I hoped he'll show some beast COO but it didn't happen. It's clear Sanji is weak in COA and Zoro is weak in COO and both are strong vice versa in haki. Not a bad thing since they both are strong in their own areas and what they want.