SM Naruto, SM Jiraiya and SM Hashirama vs. EMS Madara, EMS Sasuke and MS Itachi
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LustyLover
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EMS Madara pre-edo revived? EMS Sasuke before the Hermit lends him his power?
If both of these are accurate, then still team Madara.
While Madara is battling Hashirama, Sasuke stalemates with Naruto until Itachi wipes the floor with Jiraiya, then they proceed to kill Naruto together and when they're finished they triple team Hashirama. In a fight vs Hashirama I honestly see Sasuke dying around some point. But a healthy Itachi combined with Madara just might be enough to finish him off.
If both of these are accurate, then still team Madara.
While Madara is battling Hashirama, Sasuke stalemates with Naruto until Itachi wipes the floor with Jiraiya, then they proceed to kill Naruto together and when they're finished they triple team Hashirama. In a fight vs Hashirama I honestly see Sasuke dying around some point. But a healthy Itachi combined with Madara just might be enough to finish him off.
AGoodBoy
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Team 2 wins.
On team 1, Jiraiya has a monopoly on ma and pa for his SM, so naruto only has his 5 minutes/3 rasenshurikens worth of SM at a time. That wouldn't be so bad if Jiraiya wasn't also crutching the team with the fact that, as an imperfect sage, his boost is far inferior to naruto's. Because of this, both naruto and jiraiya are at a severe disadvantage while hashi has to pick up the slack.
On team 2, we have 3 V4 susano'o users. V4 susano'o is already too much for sm naruto and jiraiya. Itachi's capable of holding up V4 susano'o for quite a bit of time (as long as he's not starting depleted of chakra and sick-dying) while sasuke and madz can hold it up for hours. The amount of chaos they can dish out is amazing.
These 3 can pretty much pressure Hashirama is hard as they can; Sasuke tossing enton, Itachi constantly trying to genjutsu snipe and madara.. being madara. While they're in this V4 form, they're essentially safe from eery and anything team 1 can toss at them. The only thing team 1 can do is attempt to protect hashi while these 3 do not need to worry about attacks as they're automatically covered all around. Eventually, because Hashi is the only one one team 1 with really good defensive ninjutsu (naru and jiraiya are more offensive powerhouses), sasuke, itachi and madara will eventually kill hashirama. Simply having to defend yourself from susano'o and genjutsu snipes is too much. Just 1 wrong look means hashi is paralyzed for a possible 1 second too long. When hashi goes down, so do the rest...
Assuming this fight grinds out to attrition, Madara and hashi should easily outlast everyone else, bringing this down to madz vs hashi, in which case hashi wins. But i doubt it will drag out this far.
On team 1, Jiraiya has a monopoly on ma and pa for his SM, so naruto only has his 5 minutes/3 rasenshurikens worth of SM at a time. That wouldn't be so bad if Jiraiya wasn't also crutching the team with the fact that, as an imperfect sage, his boost is far inferior to naruto's. Because of this, both naruto and jiraiya are at a severe disadvantage while hashi has to pick up the slack.
On team 2, we have 3 V4 susano'o users. V4 susano'o is already too much for sm naruto and jiraiya. Itachi's capable of holding up V4 susano'o for quite a bit of time (as long as he's not starting depleted of chakra and sick-dying) while sasuke and madz can hold it up for hours. The amount of chaos they can dish out is amazing.
These 3 can pretty much pressure Hashirama is hard as they can; Sasuke tossing enton, Itachi constantly trying to genjutsu snipe and madara.. being madara. While they're in this V4 form, they're essentially safe from eery and anything team 1 can toss at them. The only thing team 1 can do is attempt to protect hashi while these 3 do not need to worry about attacks as they're automatically covered all around. Eventually, because Hashi is the only one one team 1 with really good defensive ninjutsu (naru and jiraiya are more offensive powerhouses), sasuke, itachi and madara will eventually kill hashirama. Simply having to defend yourself from susano'o and genjutsu snipes is too much. Just 1 wrong look means hashi is paralyzed for a possible 1 second too long. When hashi goes down, so do the rest...
Assuming this fight grinds out to attrition, Madara and hashi should easily outlast everyone else, bringing this down to madz vs hashi, in which case hashi wins. But i doubt it will drag out this far.
BlacLord™
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Jiraiya.
Naruto gets all of the other summons (Gamabunta, Kichi, Tatsu, Hiro etc).
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Bronze
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Team 2 mid diff.
Naruto and Jiraiya are literally non-factors to this match. The only real threat is Hashirama, but Madara will stalemate him via version 4 unstabalized Susanoo. With Sasuke's own version, amplifying it with Enton, Hashirama will be burned eventually.
Naruto and Jiraiya are literally non-factors to this match. The only real threat is Hashirama, but Madara will stalemate him via version 4 unstabalized Susanoo. With Sasuke's own version, amplifying it with Enton, Hashirama will be burned eventually.
Beans2
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Shima has that sand dust cloud thing to obscure vision, so the Sages will be at a huge advantage once she spits it out because:
-Link of vision is broken: so no sharingan-based genjutsu
-Sages have SM sensing, whereas the Uchihas have their visual prowess greatly weakened and cannot see or sense anything
-No amaterasu: Amaterasu can only ignite things within a line of vision, so if the Uchihas can't see anything they can't light anything on fire. Enton is another case, but Hashi can block it with walls of wood
Then there's Jiraiya's Dark Swamp, which can sink Susano'os...Any Uchiha katons get overpowered by Jiraiya's katon...Then there's this, which would obliterate any of their Susano'os:
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Rasenshurikens could also deal a great bit of damage to Susano'o... Dark Swamp + Food Cart destroyer would sink Madara's and Sasuke's Susanoos into the earth (Itachi is another case since he has Totsuka blade and Yata mirror, but he can't hold his Susano'o up for that long). Then there's Hashi's wood techniques which can bind/immobilize Susanoo. There are honestly so many ways for the Sages to win. Surprisingly enough, Jiraiya is the biggest player.
LustyLover
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-Madara's Great Fire Annihilation wipes the floor with any Fire Style techniques Jiraiya can dish out.
- The Sharingan sees Chakra, in mist or not. Itachi can also place crows in the area to have full intel on his surroundings. If they think they can block the Sharingan's vision with mist or dust on EMS/MS users, I bet they'll be surprised when Amaterasu slaps them across the face.
- I don't see Rasenshurikens or Odama Rasengans doing squat to a v4 Susano'o, not to mention Itachi's Yata Mirror. Hashirama's wood techniques won't bind three v4 Susano'os all at once that easily. Even if he did, it would be broken quite quickly.
- The user of a v4 Susano'o is capable of moving/jumping with it, and Itachi has intel on the Dark Swamp and will be sure to avoid it as well inform his teammates about it. It can and will be avoided.
Jiraiya and Naruto will be vastly out-powered in this fight. They'll die quickly, unless Plot no Jutsu is involved.
Team two takes this.
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AGoodBoy
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All of those are valid points... while the smoke is up. Once it's gone. games back on. Even while it's up, what can they do? 3 V4 susano'o. They couldn't take it down before, a puff or smoke won't change it now.
Dark swamp sinking susano'o is mere speculation. Susano'o is a chakra construct that can be dispelled and reformed. It can be formed around or away from the user. The user can walk and have susano'o stay still. The biggest thing to note is, dark swamp won't destroy susano'o, so they're still well defended until they find a way out.
any katon from jiraiya is destroyed by the uchiha. Itachi(ama), Sasuke(enton), or Madara(
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) eats it away with a more powerful flame. The most viable option against jiraiya's katon is Sasuke's Enton. Rasengan barrage obliterating a V4 susano'o...? I don't even... a Ribcage tanked a senpou ooda-- just find proof please.
No evidence that Rasenshuriken can harm a susano'o. It's indeed fan speculation that a rasenshuriken had more cutting power than danzo's enhanced fuuton - which was only able to cut a weaker V3 susano'o. A wweaker fuuton from danzo was so powerful that susano'o had to
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because of the impact. Already Discussed Swamp. Summonings are all killed by sasuke's amaterasu spam. Hashi's would is merked by Madara's susano'o sword(canon) + sasuke's enton sword(and lit on fire) + itachi's totsuka.Bronze
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Touken
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Mokuryu just wraps around Madara's V4 Susanoo and absorbs it all. Pretty sure Mokujin was already stalemating with PS, it should destroy V4 Susanoo considering the gap between PS and V4 Susanoo is enormous.
To be honest, Team 2 have nothing on any of Hashirama's giant Mokuton constructs since none of their attacks are destructive as a PS slash, and the devastation caused by a PS slash is needed against Hashirama's Mokuton. Anything less isn't going to cut it.
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Mokuryou has already been proven to be useless against this V2 [
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]. You can see Mokuryou didn't absorb its sword when it struck its mouth. Show me Mokujin's destructive feats, because I don't remember it had any.Not really, considering Sasuke can coat Enton to make Madara's attacks burn on large scale. Not only that, all they need is to get enough close range with Hashirama, where Itachi can use Tsukuyomi on Hashirama.
Jimihendrix
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Hashirama solos Sasuke and Itachi without SM. Naruto and Jiraiya are non factors in this match i would say.
Hashirama says hello, wood release: advent of a world of flowering trees
so essentially SM Hashirama solos EMS Madara, EMS Sasuke, and MS Itachi
Hashirama says hello, wood release: advent of a world of flowering trees
so essentially SM Hashirama solos EMS Madara, EMS Sasuke, and MS Itachi
Touken
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You can't even discern whether Mokuryu absorbed the sword or not since it had just made impact and Mokuryu absorbing ninjutsu isn't an instant process. All Mokujin has to do is keep bashing the Susanoo until it breaks, it shouldn't be exactly too difficult while bearing in mind that it's as big as PS.
V4 Susanoo's attacks aren't gonna do anything to the Mokuton constructs, regardless of whether they're coated in Enton or not. Mokuton isn't made of flesh nor does it feel pain so it just ignores the Enton, and the Enton isn't capable of burning the Mokuton to the ground since it isn't shown to be hot and FTW wasn't affected by Madara's Katon: Gouka Messhitsu [
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][
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], so I highly doubt Enton's gonna do anything to the Mokuton constructs.They aren't going to be able to get close enough to Hashirama and Itachi's going to be pretty busy dealing with SM Jiraiya and SM Naruto. Plus, even if you made it Hashirama vs. Team 2, they still lack the firepower to take down the Mokuton and get close enough to Hashirama. Naruto and Jiraiya can sit on top of Hashirama's Mokuton and provide support from there with long range attacks.
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Beans2
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-Jiraiya's katon outclasses Madara's katon.
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-It doesn't matter whether the sharingan can see chakra or not. Itachi/Sasuke cannot use Amaterasu against them while in the dust cloud because Amaterasu requires the target to be in the actual line of sight - seeing their chakra network is not the same as actually seeing them.
-That many Odama Rasengans, which wrecked a 100% Kurama, could definitely destroy even a V4 Susano'o. Yata Mirror only provides 180 degrees of protection, so even if it guards against some of rasengans, it could not protect from behind. Coupled with a few Rasenshurikens, the Susano'os get destroyed. And Hashirama's wood techniques are definitely enough to restrain Susanoo. With Madara and Sasuke, several wooden hands (which are the size of bijuu) could grab their ankles and hold them in place. Not to mention Hashi's Gates, or wood dragons, which supress chakra. Whereas with Itachi, he doesn't even have a legged Susano'o so roots coming up from the ground can bypass Susanoo and kill Itachi.
-How exactly is Dark Swamp avoided? And how does Itachi know when Jiraiya is about to use it? Especially with Hashi restraining everyone with wood, I don't see how it gets dodged. Add food cart destroyer and they're done for.
-As for the smoke, Ma and Pa can just keep spitting it out. They are Sages, so chakra isn't an issue for them.
-The way Dark Swamp works is the heavier the target, the deeper it sinks. So if any of Team 2 keep their Susano'o up, they sink deep into the mud, and then Gamabunta crashes down on top of it and sinks it even further. If they dispell Susano'o, then they get crushed by a giant toad. My point about Dark Swamp is not that it will destroy the Susano'o, but that it will sink it and immobilize it.
-About katons: look at the picture I posted. It remains the largest katon we have seen so far in the manga. Using black flames to put out the fire is also illogical since Amaterasu/Enton burns slowly and will not hinder the progress of the flames. Besides, my point about fire is that Jiraiya can use it to counter Madara's fire, not as an offensive tactic (since obviously it does nothing to a Susanoo). Also, Gamabunta has Suiton so he can put out the flames that way.
-I don't see why a massive rasengan barrage of that scale (or even bigger, since both Jiraiya and Naruto can do it at the same time) can't obliterate a Susanoo. You have to keep in mind Hashi is pounding them with wood the whole time. Sooner or later, Susanoo is getting broken. And when was it that a ribcage tanked that? I'm not doubting you, I honestly can't remember when it happened.
-As for Rasenshuriken, it is indeed the strongest Fuuton jutsu in the manga. You already brought up the point I was about to say (Danzo's much weaker fuuton pierced through V3), so a rasenshuriken coupled with a SM enhanced massive rasengan barrage could break through V4 no sweat.
-If any summonings get lit on Amaterasu, Jiraiya can make a shadow clone use Fire Sealing Scroll to seal Amaterasu.
-Hashirama already defeated Madara canonically, who had a full Kyubi and PS. Kyubi and PS are now restricted so Hashi can take Madara without any major problems.
-Keep in mind that the whole time Jiraiya and Naruto are pounding them with massive SM enhanced rasengan barrages, rasenshurikens, sinking Susanoos in swamps, and crashing frogs down on them, Hashirama is pounding everyone with his wood, crashing down gates on them, and restraining them with wooden dragons. Even V4 Susanoo's can't compete with that.