**Sigh** Are we really that slow to say 8 gate is a Tie? Really? lmmfao

[A v i]

I'm boxing with my opponent in the Grand Final of a tournament, and I beat him to pulp. Then I go home with the trophy, and die off constipation 5 hours later because he punched my gut so hard during the fight.

Is it still a tie? lol

A bad example: Here you guys aren't fighting to kill eachother.You are just fighting to win and you managed to get what you actually want which means that you are the winner so whether you die or not afterwards is irrelevant.

 

[Penguin]

A bad example: Here you guys aren't fighting to kill eachother.You are just fighting to win so you managed to get what you actually want which means that you are the winner so whether you die or not afterwards is irrelevant.

Good way to put it.

 

[Strict]

So Bogard, you say it counts that Minato, after using the RDS and being stabbed by Kyuubi's nail stood the last minutes alive to make his and Kushina's farewell emotional and compares it with Gai, who can actively fight after he already dealt several blows to his opponent?

After the ritual was settled, the Death God seals away all souls at the same time: [

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][

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]. After the Death God did that, the technique is over and both the caster and the victim die.

Sorry, but in no way this is comparable.

I'm boxing with my opponent in the Grand Final of a tournament, and I beat him to pulp. Then I go home with the trophy, and die off constipation 5 hours later because he punched my gut so hard during the fight.

Is it still a tie? lol

This.

Yet, Hiruzen survived longer than EDO Tobirama and Hashirama. RDS takes time to kill the user, more time than is necessary to seal an opponent.

Because Hiruzen merely ripped off their souls and continued the same move (which probably can be used against several opponents). At the end of the move, the Death God eats all souls and the user dies. He can't continuing fighting after he used the RDS and took out a soul. Gai on the other hand could one shot most characters and then continue for several minutes. Gai > Tsunade, no tie.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

A bad example: Here you guys aren't fighting to kill eachother.You are juts fighting to win so you managed to get what you actually want so whether you die or not afterwards is irrelevant.

In Mortal Kombat tournament the last survivor is the winner of the tournament. If Gai kills his opponent in finale and dies 5 hours later off constipation, he is still the victor of the fight.

 

[fastrthnwind]

A bad example: Here you guys aren't fighting to kill eachother.You are just fighting to win and you managed to get what you actually want which means that you are the winner so whether you die or not afterwards is irrelevant.

a match is over when the opponent is unable to continue the fight, not necessarily dead. they could simply be incapacitated or KOd, it doesnt matter.

 

[Draegod]

You died from wounds that occurred in the fight. What do you think?

So if my opponent hits me hard in the head but i still kill him. 20 years later they say i have brain damage then 2 years later die to it... It's still a tie even though the fight was over decades ago????

Now it's obv you're just arguing just to argue for your fellow minato fans. What you say isn't in the realm's of competiotion/fights/skirmish etc etc. You are making up your own rules that only you agree with in life and fiction.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Thanks for the rep!

 

[A v i]

a match is over when the opponent is unable to continue the fight, not necessarily dead. they could simply be incapacitated or KOd, it doesnt matter.

In Mortal Kombat tournament the last survivor is the winner of the tournament. If Gai kills his opponent in finale and dies 5 hours later off constipation, he is still the victor of the fight.

Here what you guys are overlooking is the fact that it is a tournament so once the winner is decided and the tournament is over what happens afterwards is irrelavant but in a real life combat it should be considered as a draw.As I have already explained in

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post of mine,The winner in such a battle should be decided based on the objective of the battle.

 

[Penguin]

So if my opponent hits me hard in the head but i still kill him. 20 years later they say i have brain damage then 2 years later die to it... It's still a tie even though the fight was over decades ago????

Now it's obv you're just arguing just to argue for your fellow minato fans. What you say isn't in the realm's of competiotion/fights/skirmish etc etc. You are making up your own rules that only you agree with in life and fiction.

You must be shitting me. That is no way comparable to Gai using eight gates.

You must be shitting me again. I am not a Minato fan, even though he has a good character. The last chapters have ruined him for me. And are you ****ing serious? Get out why you still have some credibility left.

 

[RicardoA]

Im not sure how it can be subjective when in battle, there is a clear winner and loser. The loser is the person who has been KOd/incapacitated/killed or in a situation where they are unable to continue the fight and the winner is the one who remains standing and is still capable of fighting.

the definition of suicide is very clear in that the person dies to kill another person/people at the same time and that befits the description of both RDS and C0 under normal circumstances because after the technique is used, they are killed. The 8 gates is different because instead of becoming the trigger for your own death and of someone elses simultaneously, you are using every bit of energy you body can muster to empower you with enough strength that can overcome virtually anything, though in the in the proccess, it consumes the bodies remaining energy and destroys it as well, which is why the 8th gate will guarantee death when the energy runs out completely.

The difference is that while the first two rely on the users life to initiate the technique, the aftereffect of gates is death. So in essence the 8th gate is considered a suicide technique in that it guarantees death afterwards, but not in the same fasion as other suicide techniques because their death is not required to invoke/use the technique.

And there're also draws where both characters get KO'ed as a consequence of the same battle.
The definition of suicide is that someone kills itself, period (it has nothing to do with fighting). What you're doing is considering the act of suicide as a valid mean to achieve a victory, something that i can't consider correct by my standards.

The last sentence is what caught my attention though. That's exactly where i wanted you to touch.
Death is very required to use the 8th gate since after closing the 8th gate Gai dies. Same as RDS where the user seals someone and dies after that same person is sealed.

The time argument is what's causing all this discussion.
As i said before, this isn't like a race to me. To determine a winner, the boundaries of a battle should extend to the consequences it has on those who participated in it. Gai isn't winning against anyone by using the 8th gate because even if he kills his opponent, he'll die as well as a consequence of that.
By that logic RDS earns wins as well since the user dies after someone else's soul is sealed first (effectively killing first).

 

[fastrthnwind]

You must be shitting me. That is no way comparable to Gai using eight gates.

You must be shitting me again. I am not a Minato fan, even though he has a good character. The last chapters have ruined him for me. And are you ****ing serious? Get out why you still have some credibility left.

its comparable because gai can kill his opponent long before the effects of the gates kills him. not necessarily long as in years, but possibly minutes, maybe 5-10 minutes, so long as they arent seconds

 

[BlacLord™]

Are you high?

RDS and the Eighth Gate both result in death but the latter doesn't even guarantee victory.

It's a tie, don't be so ignorant and make people think that a tie has one meaning, here is the applicable meaning: b. A contest so resulting; a draw.

Must I dumb it down further and give you the definition of a draw?

"an even score at the conclusion of a game or match"

The score being who lives and who dies and the match being a battle and since both die, they have an equal score.

If you still can't understand, think of it this way:

The Eight Gates user has been backed into a corner by the opponent and has forced said user to open the Gate of Death, which means the opponent has forced the user into death.

 

[Draegod]

Yet, Hiruzen survived longer than EDO Tobirama and Hashirama. RDS takes time to kill the user, more time than is necessary to seal an opponent.

Reread the entire thread.

I'm not sure what you're getting at? If he dies months later, it wasn't his attack that killed him. Suffering major damage does not equal death.

If you are in tournament, and you kill your opponent at cost of your life. Then that is a draw. Or either no one is the winner.

You can die from spinal cord injury what are you talking about???? It is possible to damage your self while killing or damaging others. Are you serious to say this isn't possible???????????????????????????????/

And no! In a tourny if i kill my opponent, the fight is over and i win. After the tourny and everyone goes home then i die, isnt a tie. The fight has been long over and i have been long since been declared the victor.

 

[Strict]

In a logical battle, the winner is the last man standing.. if Itachi finally killed Sasuke and died a minute later of his aids, he would still be the winner as he dominated in the end.. it's the same with Gai, who stomps his opponent and will then stand above his corpse in his 8th gate..

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Here what ur overlooking is the fact that it is a tournament so once the winner is decided and the tournament is over what happens afterwards is irrelavant but in a real life combat it should be considered as a draw.As I have already explained in

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post of mine,The winner in such a battle should be decided based on the objective of the battle.

No it should not be considered as a draw. In every 1 on 1 fight, the last one to stand or remain alive is the winner. It doesn't matter what the objective is. You die first, you lose. How I die later is irrelevant.

 

[BlacLord™]

No it should not be considered as a draw. In every 1 on 1 fight, the last one to stand or remain alive is the winner. It doesn't matter what the objective is. You die first, you lose. How I die later is irrelevant.

Please tell me you're joking?

You die because your opponent caused your death. Just as how backing someone into a corner and forcing them to open the Gate of Death is causing their death.


A last man standing match is not the same as a standard battle, do not confuse them. A victor is someone who wins a match without their own death being incurred.

 

[Draegod]

You must be shitting me. That is no way comparable to Gai using eight gates.

You must be shitting me again. I am not a Minato fan, even though he has a good character. The last chapters have ruined him for me. And are you ****ing serious? Get out why you still have some credibility left.

First off Credibility from who???? Noob users of this site???? lmmfao I gives No fuqs about what others think of me! You are nothing but internet no names. This isn't real life and none of you contribute to anything i do and vice versa.

And you keep contradicting your self it's sad. If I were you i would leave this argument to the other users. You clearly do not watch sports or competitions what so ever.

Are you high?

RDS and the Eighth Gate both result in death but the latter doesn't even guarantee victory.

It's a tie, don't be so ignorant and make people think that a tie has one meaning, here is the applicable meaning: b. A contest so resulting; a draw.

Must I dumb it down further and give you the definition of a draw?

"an even score at the conclusion of a game or match"

The score being who lives and who dies and the match being a battle and since both die, they have an equal score.

If you still can't understand, think of it this way:

The Eight Gates user has been backed into a corner by the opponent and has forced said user to open the Gate of Death, which means the opponent has forced the user into death.

Derp derp are you slow? When did i say Gates didn't result in death? Both work differently, not the same in any way shape or form! You clearly have no idea what is being talked about.

 

[fastrthnwind]

And there're also draws where both characters get KO'ed as a consequence of the same battle.
The definition of suicide is that someone kills itself, period (it has nothing to do with fighting). What you're doing is considering the act of suicide as a valid mean to achieve a victory, something that i can't consider correct by my standards.

The last sentence is what caught my attention though. That's exactly where i wanted you to touch.
Death is very required to use the 8th gate since after closing the 8th gate Gai dies. Same as RDS where the user seals someone and dies after that same person is sealed.

The time argument is what's causing all this discussion.
As i said before, this isn't like a race to me. To determine a winner, the boundaries of a battle should extend to the consequences it has on those who participated in it. Gai isn't winning against anyone by using the 8th gate because even if he kills his opponent, he'll die as well as a consequence of that.
By that logic RDS earns wins as well since the user dies after someone else's soul is sealed first (effectively killing first).

the first part is considered a tie. a draw happens when the two sides are able to continue fighting after a set amount of time.

amyways, its not specifically suicide by itself, but a suicide technique in battle whose definition that im using.

death is not required to use the 8th gate, because if it was, then they wouldnt be able to use the technique in the first place. death is just the aftereffect of using the 8th gate. when its opened, the user doesnt die, they ae still alive as long as their body has energy in comparison to c0 in which the persons body explodes to kill themselves and their opponent or RDS where their body is used as a catalyst for the death god to take another persons sould and seal it within its belly.

the consequenses only pertain to the parameters of the battle, otherwise, it woudl kean that the jutsu determine whether a person wins or loses, which it doesnt. if a person is dead, the match is over. its the most fundamental rule of battle.

 

[Penguin]

First off Credibility from who???? Noob users of this site???? lmmfao I gives No fuqs about what others think of me! You are nothing but internet no names. This isn't real life and none of you contribute to anything i do and vice versa.

And you keep contradicting your self it's sad. If I were you i would leave this argument to the other users. You clearly do not watch sports or competitions what so ever.




Derp derp are you slow? When did i say Gates didn't result in death? Both work differently, not the same in any way shape or form! You clearly have no idea what is being talked about.

I literally watch every sport besides basketball. I fail to see how this ties in to Eight Inner gates?

 

[Draegod]

Please tell me you're joking?

You die because your opponent caused your death. Just as how backing someone into a corner and forcing them to open the Gate of Death is causing their death.

How did they force him? It isn't their choice nor ability to make their opponent use gates. lmmfao

When the opp uses transformation, they choose to use transformations or enhancements to better aid them in their abilities. If i kill you the fight is over. Now at that time did we die at the same time? That is a draw or tie.