**Sigh** Are we really that slow to say 8 gate is a Tie? Really? lmmfao

[A v i]

Only part where I agree with you is the part where u said that defeating your enemy at the cost of your life shouldn't be considered as a draw.Sorry to say this but everything else in your posts exept this^^ point is utter nonsense.A suicide technic is a suicide technic regardless of how much time it takes to kill the user so get over it.The reason why I agree with you is that I personally belive that the winner in such a battle should be decided based on whether the person who is placing his life on the line managed to achive his goal or not.

For example:Gai is currently fighting Madara using 8th gate which means that his life is on the line and his main objective is to stop Infinite Tsukuyomi so if Gai managed to stop Madara from casting that jutsu then the winner'll be Gai even if Madara managed to survive the battle as Gai achived his main goal.If Madara managed to cast the jutsu,then the winner'll be Madara and it would be useless even if Gai managed to kill him as he failed to achive his goal.Same logic can be applied to any suicide jutsu but incase of VS threads where the main objective of the both the fighters is nothing more than defeating/killing his opponent,it should be considered as a draw.

 

[Touken]

Funny how you say a teleporter can't get time Lol. You use handseals for majority of techniques in this manga and it doesn't stop ninjas from using them in battle. Seriously this excuse is laughable at best

Anyway by that logic i could also say, 8Gates doesn't kill the opponent. It's the 8gate user who should try his best to kill the opponent before dying because the moment opening the final gate, he basically becomes a dead walking body. If the opponent smh avoid the danger/flees the battlefield, the result is Gai dying and opponent surviving, so he wins?

lol, most offensive techniques provide a defence because of the offense. It isn't the same case with RDS, not to mention the fact that he can't execute the hand seals while running, nor can Minato use Hiraishin while prepping RDS.

No, then Gai wins via BFR. Either that or he chases down his opponent, it's not like they're outrunning 8G Gai.

RDS doesn't slow you down. It's basically a support summon waiting for your order to cast the seal. The moment you summon it, it's the user who decides when to use the seal. You can move everywhere you want even after summoning it

You're not forced to subdue the opponent as well to seal him. Minato used a long range version of the RDS and it sealed half Kyubi instantly [

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You're going off-topic here. We're talking about the possibility to remain alive after defeating the opponent and in this context it's no different than 8gates

It's practical to subdue your opponent. You can't execute the hand seals for RDS while moving and you can't use another jutsu to defend yourself while using the hand seals. RDS provides no offense or defence, that's why it's different to other jutsu. There's a high chance he'd die well before he can seal the opponent's soul; he has to use hand seals while stationery, so he can't move, and there's the chance that he dies before the Shinigami's hand reaches his opponent.

It's not off-topic. Gates is a practically technique to use in a battle, RDS isn't. There's a reason why Minato hasn't used RDS on JM Madara prior to losing his other arm, and the reason is, is that he'd die before he'd be able to finish off his jutsu.

 

[Strict]

Well i guess Minato solos then. I'll start saying RDS gg in every versus threads now

RDS is another matter.. he seals away the victims soul together with his own. After this technique both are K.O. Gai fights now for a considerable time. He could kill the opponent and remain standing, until his lifespan runs out, what doesn't happen immediately after he killed the opponent.

After the RDS, Minato isn't able to continue anymore, Gai however can. Be wise and agree Bogard.

 

[Solo]

The 8th Gate is a suicidal attack. You use it and you die. Simple as that, there is no in between. Therefore, 8th Gate will always end a draw.

If your opponent push you to the point you resort to a suicidal attack, then yes, it is a draw. Assisted suicide, Son.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

If Gai kills his opponent and dies later, he wins IMO. It's not like Deidara's C0 where the user dies first in order to kill the opponent. If Gai beats an opponent using 8th gate in order to win, its a sacrifice, not a tie.

Because nobody except Madara can beat 8th Gate Gai at the moment. Admit it folks, Gai is the 2nd strongest character in the manga right now (apart from the sage and his family)

 

[Bogard]

RDS is another matter.. he seals away the victims soul together with his own. After this technique both are K.O. Gai fights now for a considerable time. He could kill the opponent and remain standing, until his lifespan runs out, what doesn't happen immediately after he killed the opponent.

After the RDS, Minato isn't able to continue anymore, Gai however can. Be wise and agree Bogard.

Once again:

1- Minato used summoning jutsu, saved Naruto
2- Waited for Kushina's speech
3- Used chakra transfer with Eight trigram seal

All that after having sealed half Kyubi with the RDS before. RDS doesn't kill you instantly. The opponent is defeated long before the user dies later by the side effects of the jutsu. It's no different than the principe the OP is using in this thread. Refusing to see such a thing while accepting a similar thing is what one call a double standard

 

[Draegod]

The opponent can be sealed long before the God of Death decides to go himself, so the opponent is defeated long before God of death goes and the user dies. It's the same logic you're applying with Gai here. Seriously your double standard here is becoming ridiculous

Show me the RITUAL being completed and the RD gone with the user unaffected. Then you can say it is EXACTLY THE SAME. Not half sealed or non factors being sealed.

I'm not sure why. After reading your OP, you're saying the last man standing is the winner. It's a fact that Hizuren sealed two souls (who was just as much opponents as Oro was). You say it wasn't complete (evident by saying show me when it's completed), proving that it can seal souls before it's completed.

If it's really as simple as last person standing wins, then I'm not sure what more have to be shown.

Again the concept and mechanics behind RDS are not the same. RDS is a ritual that ends with both sealed (fact). Not side pieces or clones. The goal and contract was "Seal Ninja A", once ninja A has been sealed COMPLETELY the ritual is over. It is nothing alike Guy in the sense that When RDS is COMPLETE both are sealed (manga fact and databook fact). Gates kill you wayyy later when you decide to let it be or when it reaches it's limit. 2 different Scenarios with 2 different realms of workings.

Another example. I have a Electro magnetic bomb in my heart, the bomb is designed to selfdestruct and kill Ninja A when it comes in contact with ninja A only! But it can kill ninja b, ninja c, ninja d (they can be summons, clones, dirt, water). But Ninja A is teh intended target, once it reaches ninja A, they both Die at once! Untill Ninja A goes down ninja b, c, d, z doesnt matter since the goal was ninja A. That is basically how RDS works based on manga facts and real life myth Rituals in some religions.

Now ask your self how does the ritual concept work like Guy?

 

[Penguin]

I hate people who go against the manga. It would be a draw.

>Uses a tech that kills himself to kill his opponent

 

[fastrthnwind]

I believe you're thinking of this as a race. The one who finishes it first wins, in the case of a battle the one who dies first wins.
I have to disagree with that view. I don't consider time to be the decider factor on who wins and who loses and i certainly cannot consider suicide the synonym of a victory. It just doesn't make sense to me.
In order to tell you otherwise i think i would be repeating myself (cause and consequence stuff).
All i can say at this point is that this is a very subjective matter, therefore entitled to opinion. We're both simply using a different criteria, that's all.

Im not sure how it can be subjective when in battle, there is a clear winner and loser. The loser is the person who has been KOd/incapacitated/killed or in a situation where they are unable to continue the fight and the winner is the one who remains standing and is still capable of fighting.

the definition of suicide is very clear in that the person dies to kill another person/people at the same time and that befits the description of both RDS and C0 under normal circumstances because after the technique is used, they are killed. The 8 gates is different because instead of becoming the trigger for your own death and of someone elses simultaneously, you are using every bit of energy you body can muster to empower you with enough strength that can overcome virtually anything, though in the in the proccess, it consumes the bodies remaining energy and destroys it as well, which is why the 8th gate will guarantee death when the energy runs out completely.

The difference is that while the first two rely on the users life to initiate the technique, the aftereffect of gates is death. So in essence the 8th gate is considered a suicide technique in that it guarantees death afterwards, but not in the same fasion as other suicide techniques because their death is not required to invoke/use the technique.

 

[Draegod]

I hate people who go against the manga. It would be a draw

>Uses a tech that kills himself to kill his opponent

Show Databook or Manga scan that says gates result in Draw please! Show where it says both die simultaneously! Show where a feat of both being unable to battle at once! I'll wait.

 

[Penguin]

Show Databook or Manga scan that says gates result in Draw please! Show where it says both die simultaneously! Show where a feat of both being unable to battle at once! I'll wait.

Show me where it says Gai doesn't die after Eight Gates? It is just a difference of opinion between us.

Actually, I change my mind. The word you are looking for is a Pyrrhic Victory.

And you can't be serious. Pushing Gai to use a technique that kills himself is not drawing? Lol

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I hate people who go against the manga. It would be a draw

>Uses a tech that kills himself to kill his opponent

A suicide attack is when both user and opponent die together. 8th Gate is not a suicide attack like C0 explosion. 8th Gate is a sacrificial move. In a suicide attack, the user dies immediately after 1 move.

But Gai is still standing. Death is just an aftermath of 8th Gate

 

[Draegod]

Show me where it says Gai doesn't die after Eight Gates? It is just a difference of opinion between us.

Actually, I change my mind. The word you are looking for is a Pyrrhic Victory.

And you can't be serious. Pushing Gai to use a technique that kills himself is not drawing? Lol

So you agree it isn't a draw or tie huh?

 

[Bogard]

@Touken Gai uses the 8gate. Minato hiraishin away. Who wins?

Seems you don't understand how RDS works, but because it's besides the point i won't argue about it further.

The point like i've said isn't about which technique is easier to use in battle or not, but to know if surviving a suicidal technique after defeating the opponent with said technique for a limited amount of time can be considered a draw in battle or not

 

[Penguin]

So you agree it isn't a draw or tie huh?

Pyrrhic Victory.

1. a victory in which the victor's losses are as great as those of the defeated. Also called: Cadmean victory

I believe it is a draw, since someone pushed him to use a technique that kills himself. Same with RDS. He may not die immediately, but he died from the technique he used to put him on par or over his opponent.

A suicide attack is when both user and opponent die together. 8th Gate is not a suicide attack like C0 explosion. 8th Gate is a sacrificial move. In a suicide attack, the user dies immediately after 1 move.

But Gai is still standing. Death is just an aftermath of 8th Gate

>Uses Eight gates
>Kills anyone whilst using it
>Dies afterwards

He used a technique that leads to his demise. A pyrrhic victory is exactly what Gai is doing by using the eight gates.

 

[Draegod]

@Touken Gai uses the 8gate. Minato hiraishin away. Who wins?

Seems you don't understand how RDS works, but because it's besides the point i won't argue about it further. The point like i've said isn't about which technique is easier to use in battle or not, but to know if surviving a suicidal technique after defeating the opponent with said technique for a limited amount of time can be considered a draw in battle or not

Gai, When you Flee from the battle completely you lose. that is a fact of life! No disputing! You lose the battle immediately because you acknowledged you do not tend to stay and fight. Flee=admit defeat in a battle where you and said boxer are suppose to fight.

 

[fastrthnwind]

@Touken Gai uses the 8gate. Minato hiraishin away. Who wins?

Seems you don't understand how RDS works, but because it's besides the point i won't argue about it further.

The point like i've said isn't about which technique is easier to use in battle or not, but to know if surviving a suicidal technique after defeating the opponent with said technique for a limited amount of time can be considered a draw in battle or not

>Uses Eight gates
>Kills anyone whilst using it
>Dies afterwards

He used a technique that leads to his demise. A pyrrhic victory is exactly what Gai is doing by using the eight gates.

the point in which gai kills his opponent is when the battle ends. gai would be the victor of that battle. anything happening outside of the battle can not be considered as being part of the fight because the battle had already ended.

there is no difference between not using the 8th gate and winning and living his natural lifespan in comparison to him using the 8th gate and living for only a short amount of time to his death because his death never occurred during battle in both situations.

 

[Penguin]

the point in which gai kills his opponent is when the battle ends. gai would be the victor of that battle. anything happening outside of the battle can not be considered as being part of the fight because the battle had already ended.

there is no difference between not using the 8th gate and winning and living his natural lifespan in comparison to him using the 8th gate and living for only a short amount of time to his death.

No. After the jutsu and their effects are done with is when the fight is over. This is getting out of hand. Someone call in damage control.

 

[Draegod]

Pyrrhic Victory.



I believe it is a draw, since someone pushed him to use a technique that kills himself. Same with RDS. He may not die immediately, but he died from the technique he used to put him on par or over his opponent.



>Uses Eight gates
>Kills anyone whilst using it
>Dies afterwards

He used a technique that leads to his demise. A pyrrhic victory is exactly what Gai is doing by using the eight gates.

And again how is a ritual the same as gates? When you have to complete the ritual on said Opponent to complete it and both die. Compared to Guy who can fight long after killing said opponent.

Basically to get what I'm saying you have to know sports/boxing/Real life fighting. A ritual isn't the same as a transformation period.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Pyrrhic Victory.



I believe it is a draw, since someone pushed him to use a technique that kills himself. Same with RDS. He may not die immediately, but he died from the technique he used to put him on par or over his opponent.



>Uses Eight gates
>Kills anyone whilst using it
>Dies afterwards

He used a technique that leads to his demise. A pyrrhic victory is exactly what Gai is doing by using the eight gates.

It's not a tie. In a tie, neither opponent is able to beat each other. If Gai beats Madara using 8th Gates, and dies 5 minutes later, he still wins.

We know Gai will not be successful against Madara in this fight. But if Gai had used 8th Gate against the 5 Kages and killed them in fight, and died 10 minutes later of exhaustion, he would be declared the winner of the fight.

The last person to stand in a battle/remain alive is the winner in that fight (doesn't matter if it's temporary or permanent).