Sasuke's speed issue.

Glad Of War

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If you want to talk discrepancies show me the discrepancy between the Manga and the Databook for Hiraishin's entry or stop posting. That simple. Underlined is more that blatantly stupidity you've made yourself known for. Madara reacted to the attack after hiraishin, not Hiraishin itself which is what is instant. That second paragraph is more of that stupidity. This isn't mathematics. You don't take outliers and pretend like they didn't happen. Sasuke reacted, multiple times. People have reacted to Haku after he was revived and they don't move at light speed. Thus it is an exaggeration. How many pathetic excuses will you make? I thought you were done arguing 3 posts back? :lol

Nope. Ay is physically faster than him (which is what attack and combat speed are made of) yet Minato is still faster. We'll continue to do this until you stop being a tool and come up with the requirements yourself based on what I and the Manga have stated and shown. I can only dumb down this shit so much.
"Madara reacted to the attack after hiraishin, not Hiraishin itself which is what is instant."

No. the attack after Hirashin was to be instantaneous.

"Then a single blow from behind! An instantaneous surprise attack that's impossible to avoid if you don’t know it’s coming!!"

"This isn't mathematics. You don't take outliers and pretend like they didn't happen."

Yes, this isn't mathematics. It's a simple affirmation of the antecedent.

"People have reacted to Haku after he was revived"

No one reacted to him while being reflected off his mirrors.

"Ay is physically faster than him (which is what attack and combat speed are made of) yet Minato is still faster."

I asked a simple question, and for some reason, you have decided to take it upon yourself to beat around the bush. Unfortunately for you, there are consequences.

Let's give rundown of the things you've said concerning this.

From the beginning, you stated Hirashin coupled with reflex speed made Minato faster than Ay, despite the latter had a faster reflex speed. How does Minato's reflex speed comes into play when it's slower than Ay?

After positing someone with a faster foot, attack and combat speed should be faster Minato, a conclusion inferred from statements; you went with the opposite. Specifically you claimed, even those with a faster foot, attack and combat speed still isn't faster than Minato.

Obito, Madara, and Naruto all have faster foot-speed, faster reflex speed, faster attack and combat speed. With your logic, they still aren't faster than Minato. My god this has turn into a full blown wank.
 
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KidGamer65

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"Madara reacted to the attack after hiraishin, not Hiraishin itself which is what is instant." No. the attack after Hirashin was to be instantaneous. "Then a single blow from behind! An instantaneous surprise attack that's impossible to avoid if you don’t know it’s coming!!" "This isn't mathematics. You don't take outliers and pretend like they didn't happen." Yes, this isn't mathematics. It's a simple affirmation of the antecedent. "People have reacted to Haku after he was revived" No one reacted to him while being reflected off his mirrors. "Ay is physically faster than him (which is what attack and combat speed are made of) yet Minato is still faster."
I asked a simple question, and for some reason, you have decided to take it upon yourself to beat around the bush. Unfortunately for you, there are consequences.

Let's give rundown of the things you've said concerning this.

From the beginning, you stated Hirashin coupled with reflex speed made Minato faster than Ay, despite the latter had a faster reflex speed. How does Minato's reflex speed comes into play when it's slower than Ay?

After positing someone with a faster foot, attack and combat speed should be faster Minato, a conclusion inferred from statements; you went with the opposite. Specifically you claimed, even those with a faster foot, attack and combat speed still isn't faster than Minato.

Obito, Madara, and Naruto all have faster foot-speed, faster reflex speed, faster attack and combat speed. With your logic, they still aren't faster than Minato. My god this has turn into a full blown wank.
Your rebuttal is trash as expected. Hyperbole is an exaggeration. Haku being light speed has been shown to be an exaggeration as people too slow to react to light speed have countered him. That’s a fact so I don’t want to see you whine about double standards and hypocrisy until you support your claim that the databook lord when it said Hiraishin made Minato the yellow flash despite me having the manga on my side in addition to the databook while the manga contradicts your idiotic claim, You’ll get this exact paragraph copy and pasted until you provide something that warrants a new response.
That's the response you get for everything that has to do with the databook being wrong because you want it to be.

As for the rest, let's go over this together since you clearly lack the brain power to comprehend it on your own.

From the beginning, you stated Hirashin coupled with reflex speed made Minato faster than Ay, despite the latter had a faster reflex speed. How does Minato's reflex speed comes into play when it's slower than Ay?
Minato's reflexes let him react to Ay, and Hiraishin lets him evade and outmaneuver him. You don't need to be faster than someone to react to their attacks. Read this carefully before you respond.

After positing someone with a faster foot, attack and combat speed should be faster Minato, a conclusion inferred from statements; you went with the opposite. Specifically you claimed, even those with a faster foot, attack and combat speed still isn't faster than Minato.

Obito, Madara, and Naruto all have faster foot-speed, faster reflex speed, faster attack and combat speed. With your logic, they still aren't faster than Minato. My god this has turn into a full blown wank.
Don't be daft son. I said simply having faster foot, reaction and combat speed doesn't make you faster than Minato, not that all people superior to him in these aspects are still inferior. I'll go over this one more time in hopes you can connect the dots.

Ay. Faster than Minato in every physical way. Still slower than Minato. Why?

-Because Minato can react to him, evade him, and outmaneuver him with Hiraishin.

Juubito. Faster than Minato in every physical way. Faster than Minato unlike Ay. Why?

-While Minato can react to him, he can't properly evade him nor can he outmaneuver him with Hiraishin as shown in the Manga.

Now you'll probably ask some stupid question like "but what's the difference between Ay and Juubito?" and I'll tell you that Juubito's degree of physical superiority over Minato is far greater than Ay's which is why Minato is faster than one and not faster than the other. I clearly illustrated the difference between Ay and Juubito in my comparison yet you don't want to sit down and read before you post.

I suggest you don't argue anymore. You clearly don't have a good grasp of this language and it's causing you to misunderstand what I'm saying. That or you are purposely acting a fool in hopes I'll give up so you can at least try and delude yourself into thinking you made sense.
 

kiiro

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Naruto blitzing Kaguya is still the biggest speed feat in the series. Sasuke unfortunately never showed the full extent of his physical speed in the manga, but any feats he does have are beneath that.
Not really SINCE IT WAS OFF PANEL. We didnt see from where he came from. Also, Kakashi even blitzed her attack to save Sakura, Sakura blitzed her reactions to hit her, Sasuke almost cut her with her susano. Unless all of them are near the same power then I wont doubt it.

Also, they had Rikudou power ups. I dont think they still have them In Boruto Series.
 

kiiro

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Kaguya was very weakened when Naruto did that, she easily evaded both him and Sasuke when she regained her strength:
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OT:
RSM Naruto's speed is superior to Sasuke's, but not that far, ameno makes Sasuke's combat speed superior.

Naruto has better reflexes but, Sasuke still has his EMS precog which allows him to track anyone thus far.
EMS doesnt allow you follow anyone. There is speed it cant anticipate lie EMS Sasuke vs Raikage.


sasuke is the fastest


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You didnt understand that part. They were running equally at the beginning then Sasuke blitzes and attacks suddenly Naruto attacks. This was a combo attack. Sasuke went first then Naruto. There was no blitz. Combat tactics. And the kages took off Kinshiki.


This is a pretty lame excuse considering the Manga itself portrays Tobirama and Minato of the fastest of their eras (pre KCM Naruto) because of Hiraishin, which is instant teleportation just like Ameno. If you want to argue that Naruto is faster argue that his feats are better instead of saying shit like "Ameno doesn't count".
False, it doesnt praise them as the fastest due their Hiraishin. Never did. We can see they have superior reactions and foot speed than most or than all.

if he was slow then his sensory ability can't help him to evade it
if u don't agree then reread sasuke vs lee
nm here
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He didnt evade a FTL attack with his sensory ability. He evaded Madara's head movement. The attack was FTL but Naruto evade the swing of Madara's head which is not FTL.


no 1 talking about this movie

and manga>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>this
They made the movie a manga do you know?


There seems to be an misrepresentation of feats, in the anime/manga. While Naruto's strength and speed should surpass Sasukes' even in Sage mode...yet Naruto is shown to be equal to sasuke in speed while in Chakra mode/Sage mode mixed together. It's so strange.

They shouldn't be equal in that mode, to be honest. And if I'm not mistaken, Naruto can use his dad's teleportation jutsu...but hasn't used it since.

And it's so strange how they over use chakra mode, instead of just using Sage mode, first.

Naruto does not have FTG. I doubt he will.
 

KidGamer65

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False, it doesnt praise them as the fastest due their Hiraishin. Never did. We can see they have superior reactions and foot speed than most or than all.
Manga and Databook disagree no matter how many times you repeat this nonsense.
 

kiiro

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It had everything to do with speed. Naruto acted just after the beam was liberated, showcasing quick body movement in the process. In other to even successfully evade the beam, he had to move his body at a certain rate.

As per your other point, Minato was considered fast because he seem to be able to move at one point to another at incomprehensible speed. In truth however, he was simply teleporting. Even then, his title wasn't because of Hiraishin, but because of his actual follow up movement and reflexes.

Hiraishin is an instant movement. Thus, if anyone was going to surpass him, they would have to move faster than instant which is impossible. So it's more likely when people declared him the fastest, the basis of their statement was how quick his follow up movements was.
Naruto evaded Madara's head swing, not the speed from the attack itself which is FTL. Minato is consider the fastest Ninja in History and while Kishimoto doesnt states that someone surpassed him then no one has. He is consider the fastest for two reasons. Fastest Shunshin + Perfect FTG usage = Fastest Ninja History. Not only due FTG. And yes, no one has Instant movement physically. Which is the reason we can say Minato is the fastest since they cant compare him with someonce because if it was due FTG then no one can beat him.


There is no issue. It's just two sides complicating the subject. Sasuke is fastest Shinobi currently because of his teleportation. It's the same reason why Tobirama and Minato were labelled as fastest in their eras, due to Hirashin. His foot-speed/Shunshin is only in the same tier as Itachi, Kakashi, Pain, Madara etc. Being fastest isn't relevant when your opponent's reflexes shit on it, hence why Sasuke couldn't blitz Naruto.
False, not due their FTG.

Databook says it is the reason of his nickname, not that it is the reason to be called fastes ninja. To different things.


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I'm just saying, the Manga accounts Hiraishin when ranking Minato's speed, thus the same applies for Sasuke. Bold is blatantly shown to be wrong. The databook says his special jutsu, Hiraishin, is why he's known as the Yellow Flash. That and it wouldn't make sense if his follow movements and reflexes independent of Hiraishin made him the fastest man alive because Ay was physically faster than Minato in every way, yet Ay said Minato was faster than him.

Instant teleportation combined with reflexes determines a teleporter's speed. Not just reflexes. That's why Sasuke can be accurately stated to be faster than Naruto despite Naruto moving faster. Just like Minato was considered to be faster than Ay despite Ay being physically faster.
Databook says it is the reason of his nickname, not that it is the reason to be called fastes ninja. To different things.

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Ay says Minato is faster than him which is true. Physically faster than him. No mention of FTG otherwise how can he surpass Minato? Or why wasnt Tobirama never mentioned when he also had FTG?

How can Minato leave a yellow flash if there is no movement? Why would Tsunade compare Naruto's feat with Minato's speed when one is instant and other is movement like you say? Why will Yamato say that Naruto is still not at Minato's level when if it was Instant Teleport he will never reach it? Why did Kakashi confuse Naruto blitzing the Biju Bombs with Minato? (Kakashi with Sharingan btw). Why did Obito portrayed Minato as the yellow flash when he saved Naruto even not using FTG? Minato was known as the yellow flash becuase his FTG. But know as the Fastest ninja due his speed. And the fastest ninja in history due the two thing.

You just confuse or not accept he is the fastest foot speed just becuase he has FTG.


Refer to below.

Not just Hiraishin, but also his reflex speed. While he can move instantly to a point with Hiraishin, his reflex speed allowed him to evade attacks after moving to his intended area. As shown during his battle with Ay, he was able to react to his attack, and utilise Hiraishin to move behind Bee. Hiraishin did not facilitate the way he reacted, his natural speed did.

Understand that reacting isn't physically moving from one point to another with the intention to evade an attack. As far as a movement is in response to an attack, it can be called a reaction. Minato was able to raise his hand, lugged his Kunai upwards against Ay attack, hence he reacted.

Using another example; when Naruto evaded Ay, Ay stated explicitly Naruto was the second person to evade his punch. Ay couldn't have said this if he wasn't making reference to Naruto's reaction speed.

I should also add people constantly assumed Minato was moving with his natural speed, when in fact he was teleporting. Case in point; when Naruto evaded Ay punch, Tsunade suggested Naruto's movement is similar to the Yellow-flash. In a way, she's suggesting Naruto moved instantly just like the Yellow flash. This is highly unlikely considering it's impossible to physically move instantly, and as such it's more of a probability Tsunade assumed Minato was moving with his natural speed hence why he associated it with Naruto's speed.
Excellent. Perfect comment.

You literally typed 2 paragraphs saying exactly what I'm saying except you're still coming to the incorrect conclusion. Minato's reflexes+Hiraishin is what got him the title. Not just one. Both combined. Thus the same applies to Sasuke. The entire last paragraph is blatantly shown to be false once again. Tsunade has full knowledge of Minato's space time Ninjutsu, so no, obviously she wasn't assuming that Minato moved with natural speed. Literally nobody did. Everybody knew he was using some kind of teleportation, they just didn't know what it was called.

Tsunade said that Naruto left a yellow flash when he moved. Minato's hair being blonde along with the fact that he could move from point A to point B instantly is why he was called the yellow flash.
Bold, just because you say Tsunade know Minato's jutsu then it cant be pure movement? And then you say she compare Naruto's yellow flash with Minato? If Minato used only FTG there wont be a yellow flash in first place.

Sasuke has always been portrayed to be faster. Not to mention he even raced FTG.
Raced FTG? hOW?
 

kiiro

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You see, this is what irks me when arguing with the vast majority of people here. They jump through hoops and do mental gymnastics to avoid admitting that they are wrong or were mistaken, just like you are doing now.

1. The main point of this argument is that Sasuke's teleportation does count as speed as Hiraishin has factored in to Minato's speed and that is a Manga and Databook fact. I'm going to need you to acknowledge and accept this if you want to continue this discussion.

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2. Stop with the ridiculous speculations. Don't ask for scans supporting my argument when you literally made everything you are saying up. Nowhere in this Manga did people assume that Minato was using the regular Shunshin instead of some special variant. They knew he teleported to tags. (see Ay vs. Minato)




Tsunade and Shikaku and co talking about using Hiraishin to teleport to the battlefield. So yes, obviously Tsunade knows what Hiraishin is and knows that it's teleportation and not movement. Minato's hair when he teleported gave the effect of a yellow flash. Bold is you nitpicking. Like what? :lol . That and the edges of Naruto's cloak are orange. The rest is . Not orange. What you are saying fundamentally makes zero sense. Tsunade and B couldn't see his actual movements. All they stated they saw was a flash, so how in the world do they know that his movements are like Minato's? :lol

So no, you are obviously wrong on all fronts. Nobody thought Minato used regular Shunshin, Tsunade knew about Hiraishin, and teleportation is and always will be factored into someone's overall speed in this Manga regardless of you or anyone else's view on the matter. Ay knew that Minato TELEPORTED, not moved TELEPORTED to tags yet called him the FASTEST MAN ALIVE. It doesn't get any more clear cut than this.
Hiruzen does:

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Obito does. Kakashi does. Yamato does. So there is people that knows his pure speed. You just can accept that Ay referred to Minato as the fastest because his pure speed. Not our problem.

And yes we can add Sasuke Ameno to his actual speed feats since that gives him the edge. Otherwise it will be silly to count Raikages lighting armor, Shunshin, 8 gates or any boost.
 

kiiro

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That's 2 scans and a databook entry to prove my point, meanwhile all I've seen from this guy are biases and speculations after speculations. Oh yeah, and I can't forget about the age old strawman. "Everybody thought that Minato was moving normally"

Blatantly said or implied nowhere in this Manga.

-Ay knew Minato teleported, called him fastest shinobi.
-Tsunade knew Minato teleported, called him fastest shinobi.
-DB states he was called the Yellow Flash because of Hiraishin.

Quit arguing against fact, especially when you can't bring a shred of evidence to support your case.
- Ay knew he teleported reason he cant refer he was faster than him in pure speed? Yet no one is compared to Tobirama that has the same jutsu or even Obito that lives in his actual era and has Teleport? We saw that speedsters could not touch Obito, wouldn't that make him faster than them? Yet no one says he is fast. Then we see Obito is equal to speed with Obito in the kamui world.

So you cant be called fastest ninja even if you have teleport if you aint fast physically.

- Tsunade never called him fastest ninja. And if Minato teleport he cant leave a trace otherwise Tobirama would leave one also. Or how come did not Tsunade compare Naruto with Tobirama and Minato and not only Minato since she knew both of them? Tsunade know her grandpa jutsus and not Tobirama's?

- Databook never stated that the reason he is portrayed as the fastest ninja is due his FTG. His nickname is. His hype in the databook of FTG and God Like Speed is completely separated.
 
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kiiro

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"Reacting means evading dunderhead"

:lol Just when I think this kid can't post anything worse than what he's already posted. That on top of:

"Kishimoto is wrong and I am right"

"The databook is irrelevant"

"Everybody thought Hiraishin was movement"

"Hiraishin doesn't factor into the user's speed despite every character in this Manga along with the author disagreeing"

If I was arguing with someone who didn't have his head up his ass with an agenda to push this debate would've been over the moment that DB scan was posted. But no, not this little boy. He has to be right so anything that invalidates his claims is irrelevant. I guess is what happens when you let 11 yr old children get an a forum and expect them to be rational.



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<---- Knew he was teleporting.

But still:

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Knew he was teleporting, but still:

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Said he has a chance of countering him here despite Hiraishin, yet you argue that Minato was the fastest because of his reflexes alone outside of Hiraishin.

This post is all you'll get from now on if you continue to make dumb excuses. No need for me to entertain your BS any longer.



For the second time kiddo. Tsunade and B disagree with all you have to say. Now crawl back under that hole you love so much unless you have something intelligent to bring to the fold.
1.- That is what I am referring to. How can you compare the jutsu (Raiton armor) to FTG? Not possible. Instant will be instant therefore unsurpasseable withe pure movement.

2.- Also, Obito exists, if he refereed to teleport then Obito is faster than him but he isnt, why? Because he did not refer to FTG.

3.- "I can get him with my top speed" Only if he depended on teleport and I dont know why you put that scan when we saw in the same chapter that he couldnt using his top speed twice.

4.- Madara refereed to ftg?

You are assuming that having teleport is the reason for all their feats and hypes due teleport, but once again. Why doenst Obito also enters i
 

kiiro

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It had everything to do with speed. Naruto acted just after the beam was liberated, showcasing quick body movement in the process. In other to even successfully evade the beam, he had to move his body at a certain rate.



I wasn't trying to give an excuse to give way the suggestion that Naruto is faster.

As per your other point, Minato was considered fast because he seem to be able to move at one point to another at incomprehensible speed. In truth however, he was simply teleporting. Even then, his title wasn't because of Hiraishin, but because of his actual follow up movement and reflexes.

Hiraishin is an instant movement. Thus, if anyone was going to surpass him, they would have to move faster than instant which is impossible. So it's more likely when people declared him the fastest, the basis of their statement was how quick his follow up movements was.



What you talking about? He reacted by intertwining his hands in the Manga.
There is no issue. It's just two sides complicating the subject. Sasuke is fastest Shinobi currently because of his teleportation. It's the same reason why Tobirama and Minato were labelled as fastest in their eras, due to Hirashin. His foot-speed/Shunshin is only in the same tier as Itachi, Kakashi, Pain, Madara etc. Being fastest isn't relevant when your opponent's reflexes shit on it, hence why Sasuke couldn't blitz Naruto.
I'm just saying, the Manga accounts Hiraishin when ranking Minato's speed, thus the same applies for Sasuke. Bold is blatantly shown to be wrong. The databook says his special jutsu, Hiraishin, is why he's known as the Yellow Flash. That and it wouldn't make sense if his follow movements and reflexes independent of Hiraishin made him the fastest man alive because Ay was physically faster than Minato in every way, yet Ay said Minato was faster than him.

Instant teleportation combined with reflexes determines a teleporter's speed. Not just reflexes. That's why Sasuke can be accurately stated to be faster than Naruto despite Naruto moving faster. Just like Minato was considered to be faster than Ay despite Ay being physically faster.
Refer to below.



Not just Hiraishin, but also his reflex speed. While he can move instantly to a point with Hiraishin, his reflex speed allowed him to evade attacks after moving to his intended area. As shown during his battle with Ay, he was able to react to his attack, and utilise Hiraishin to move behind Bee. Hiraishin did not facilitate the way he reacted, his natural speed did.

Understand that reacting isn't physically moving from one point to another with the intention to evade an attack. As far as a movement is in response to an attack, it can be called a reaction. Minato was able to raise his hand, lugged his Kunai upwards against Ay attack, hence he reacted.

Using another example; when Naruto evaded Ay, Ay stated explicitly Naruto was the second person to evade his punch. Ay couldn't have said this if he wasn't making reference to Naruto's reaction speed.

I should also add people constantly assumed Minato was moving with his natural speed, when in fact he was teleporting. Case in point; when Naruto evaded Ay punch, Tsunade suggested Naruto's movement is similar to the Yellow-flash. In a way, she's suggesting Naruto moved instantly just like the Yellow flash. This is highly unlikely considering it's impossible to physically move instantly, and as such it's more of a probability Tsunade assumed Minato was moving with his natural speed hence why he associated it with Naruto's speed.
You literally typed 2 paragraphs saying exactly what I'm saying except you're still coming to the incorrect conclusion. Minato's reflexes+Hiraishin is what got him the title. Not just one. Both combined. Thus the same applies to Sasuke. The entire last paragraph is blatantly shown to be false once again. Tsunade has full knowledge of Minato's space time Ninjutsu, so no, obviously she wasn't assuming that Minato moved with natural speed. Literally nobody did. Everybody knew he was using some kind of teleportation, they just didn't know what it was called.

Tsunade said that Naruto left a yellow flash when he moved. Minato's hair being blonde along with the fact that he could move from point A to point B instantly is why he was called the yellow flash.
Sasuke has always been portrayed to be faster. Not to mention he even raced FTG.
Your rebuttal is trash as expected. Hyperbole is an exaggeration. Haku being light speed has been shown to be an exaggeration as people too slow to react to light speed have countered him. That’s a fact so I don’t want to see you whine about double standards and hypocrisy until you support your claim that the databook lord when it said Hiraishin made Minato the yellow flash despite me having the manga on my side in addition to the databook while the manga contradicts your idiotic claim, You’ll get this exact paragraph copy and pasted until you provide something that warrants a new response.

As for the Minato and Ay comparison, how about you stop assuming things? When you assume things you are always wrong and end up looking foolish. What Obito displayed is the criteria. The ability to outspeed Minato and tag him before he can evade makes you faster. Obito attacked Minato and Minato got caught. You’re daft for assuming faster foot speed and reflexes is all it needs when Base Minato is inferior in both yet is faster than Ay. In foot speed more so.


And no. It’s stated that Raikage without Raiton had reflexes as fast as Minato. Thus Ay with raiton is superior. I’ll post a scan when I can. Try to post something that isn’t ridiculous in the mean time.
Obito did not caught Minato, he tricked him. Minato got him first but Minato did not know about Kamui reason Obito touch him. Obito didnt even use a lot of speed.
 

kiiro

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It had everything to do with speed. Naruto acted just after the beam was liberated, showcasing quick body movement in the process. In other to even successfully evade the beam, he had to move his body at a certain rate.



I wasn't trying to give an excuse to give way the suggestion that Naruto is faster.

As per your other point, Minato was considered fast because he seem to be able to move at one point to another at incomprehensible speed. In truth however, he was simply teleporting. Even then, his title wasn't because of Hiraishin, but because of his actual follow up movement and reflexes.

Hiraishin is an instant movement. Thus, if anyone was going to surpass him, they would have to move faster than instant which is impossible. So it's more likely when people declared him the fastest, the basis of their statement was how quick his follow up movements was.



What you talking about? He reacted by intertwining his hands in the Manga.
There is no issue. It's just two sides complicating the subject. Sasuke is fastest Shinobi currently because of his teleportation. It's the same reason why Tobirama and Minato were labelled as fastest in their eras, due to Hirashin. His foot-speed/Shunshin is only in the same tier as Itachi, Kakashi, Pain, Madara etc. Being fastest isn't relevant when your opponent's reflexes shit on it, hence why Sasuke couldn't blitz Naruto.
I'm just saying, the Manga accounts Hiraishin when ranking Minato's speed, thus the same applies for Sasuke. Bold is blatantly shown to be wrong. The databook says his special jutsu, Hiraishin, is why he's known as the Yellow Flash. That and it wouldn't make sense if his follow movements and reflexes independent of Hiraishin made him the fastest man alive because Ay was physically faster than Minato in every way, yet Ay said Minato was faster than him.

Instant teleportation combined with reflexes determines a teleporter's speed. Not just reflexes. That's why Sasuke can be accurately stated to be faster than Naruto despite Naruto moving faster. Just like Minato was considered to be faster than Ay despite Ay being physically faster.
Refer to below.



Not just Hiraishin, but also his reflex speed. While he can move instantly to a point with Hiraishin, his reflex speed allowed him to evade attacks after moving to his intended area. As shown during his battle with Ay, he was able to react to his attack, and utilise Hiraishin to move behind Bee. Hiraishin did not facilitate the way he reacted, his natural speed did.

Understand that reacting isn't physically moving from one point to another with the intention to evade an attack. As far as a movement is in response to an attack, it can be called a reaction. Minato was able to raise his hand, lugged his Kunai upwards against Ay attack, hence he reacted.

Using another example; when Naruto evaded Ay, Ay stated explicitly Naruto was the second person to evade his punch. Ay couldn't have said this if he wasn't making reference to Naruto's reaction speed.

I should also add people constantly assumed Minato was moving with his natural speed, when in fact he was teleporting. Case in point; when Naruto evaded Ay punch, Tsunade suggested Naruto's movement is similar to the Yellow-flash. In a way, she's suggesting Naruto moved instantly just like the Yellow flash. This is highly unlikely considering it's impossible to physically move instantly, and as such it's more of a probability Tsunade assumed Minato was moving with his natural speed hence why he associated it with Naruto's speed.
You literally typed 2 paragraphs saying exactly what I'm saying except you're still coming to the incorrect conclusion. Minato's reflexes+Hiraishin is what got him the title. Not just one. Both combined. Thus the same applies to Sasuke. The entire last paragraph is blatantly shown to be false once again. Tsunade has full knowledge of Minato's space time Ninjutsu, so no, obviously she wasn't assuming that Minato moved with natural speed. Literally nobody did. Everybody knew he was using some kind of teleportation, they just didn't know what it was called.

Tsunade said that Naruto left a yellow flash when he moved. Minato's hair being blonde along with the fact that he could move from point A to point B instantly is why he was called the yellow flash.
Sasuke has always been portrayed to be faster. Not to mention he even raced FTG.
Manga and Databook disagree no matter how many times you repeat this nonsense.
Read all what I said. I am not Glad of war hahaha.
 

To Whatever

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Sasuke's speed issue is that they made him too fast early on to dodge explosions at point blank range while in mid air.

It's the same issue with KCM and his other forms being over-tuned.
 

sayian

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"Madara reacted to the attack after hiraishin, not Hiraishin itself which is what is instant."

No. the attack after Hirashin was to be instantaneous.

"Then a single blow from behind! An instantaneous surprise attack that's impossible to avoid if you don’t know it’s coming!!"

"This isn't mathematics. You don't take outliers and pretend like they didn't happen."

Yes, this isn't mathematics. It's a simple affirmation of the antecedent.

"People have reacted to Haku after he was revived"

No one reacted to him while being reflected off his mirrors.

"Ay is physically faster than him (which is what attack and combat speed are made of) yet Minato is still faster."

I asked a simple question, and for some reason, you have decided to take it upon yourself to beat around the bush. Unfortunately for you, there are consequences.

Let's give rundown of the things you've said concerning this.

From the beginning, you stated Hirashin coupled with reflex speed made Minato faster than Ay, despite the latter had a faster reflex speed. How does Minato's reflex speed comes into play when it's slower than Ay?

After positing someone with a faster foot, attack and combat speed should be faster Minato, a conclusion inferred from statements; you went with the opposite. Specifically you claimed, even those with a faster foot, attack and combat speed still isn't faster than Minato.

Obito, Madara, and Naruto all have faster foot-speed, faster reflex speed, faster attack and combat speed. With your logic, they still aren't faster than Minato. My god this has turn into a full blown wank.
Why are you quoting KG in your sig? His statement is right and even says it in the databook.

Movement and reaction = Speed
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Glad Of War

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That's the response you get for everything that has to do with the databook being wrong because you want it to be.

As for the rest, let's go over this together since you clearly lack the brain power to comprehend it on your own.



Minato's reflexes let him react to Ay, and Hiraishin lets him evade and outmaneuver him. You don't need to be faster than someone to react to their attacks. Read this carefully before you respond.



Don't be daft son. I said simply having faster foot, reaction and combat speed doesn't make you faster than Minato, not that all people superior to him in these aspects are still inferior. I'll go over this one more time in hopes you can connect the dots.

Ay. Faster than Minato in every physical way. Still slower than Minato. Why?

-Because Minato can react to him, evade him, and outmaneuver him with Hiraishin.

Juubito. Faster than Minato in every physical way. Faster than Minato unlike Ay. Why?

-While Minato can react to him, he can't properly evade him nor can he outmaneuver him with Hiraishin as shown in the Manga.

Now you'll probably ask some stupid question like "but what's the difference between Ay and Juubito?" and I'll tell you that Juubito's degree of physical superiority over Minato is far greater than Ay's which is why Minato is faster than one and not faster than the other. I clearly illustrated the difference between Ay and Juubito in my comparison yet you don't want to sit down and read before you post.

I suggest you don't argue anymore. You clearly don't have a good grasp of this language and it's causing you to misunderstand what I'm saying. That or you are purposely acting a fool in hopes I'll give up so you can at least try and delude yourself into thinking you made sense.
This is guy is a thundering dumbass =D

Kidgamer: Haku's speed is an hyperbole. People reacted to him.

Someone with a brain: That logic makes Hirashin movement an hyperbole considering Madara reacted to it.

Kidgamer: hurrrr durrrrrr, I don't care about that. I'll going to repost my quote that proves Haku's speed is hyperbole.

It's at this point I realize he has a brain of a parrot.

"Because Minato can react to him, evade him, and outmaneuver him with Hiraishin."

I love how this only accounts to reaction speed, and nothing else. As I wanted to say; Hirashin doesn't facilitate Minato's foot-speed, and combat speed, but you seem to have indicated it with your proposition. Ergo, you proved yourself wrong.

In addition, how is Minato suppose to react to Ay if he has slower reflex speed?

Inb4, Hirashin would compensate for that; Minato would need to perceive Ay's movements before he uses Hirashin. Seeing as, according to you, he has a slower reflex speed, this implies he won't be able to perceive Ay's movement. We know Minato reacted to him in the Manga after perceiving his movement, implying Minato either had a faster reflex speed, or his reflex speed was just as fast a Ay as opposed your retarded claim that it was slower.
 
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Glad Of War

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Why are you quoting KG in your sig? His statement is right and even says it in the databook.

Movement and reaction = Speed
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That's not the point. Kidgamer was trying to say Reaction speed has nothing to do with distance/time.

On another note, I noticed your scan shows the parameter of speed is swift movement, and faster reaction speed.

Your boooi Kidgamer implied Hirashin can be included to determines the level of a person's speed because it's a type of speed.

Hirashin is a space-time movement, not a swift movement.
 
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Glad Of War

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Naruto evaded Madara's head swing, not the speed from the attack itself which is FTL. Minato is consider the fastest Ninja in History and while Kishimoto doesnt states that someone surpassed him then no one has. He is consider the fastest for two reasons. Fastest Shunshin + Perfect FTG usage = Fastest Ninja History. Not only due FTG. And yes, no one has Instant movement physically. Which is the reason we can say Minato is the fastest since they cant compare him with someonce because if it was due FTG then no one can beat him.




False, not due their FTG.

Databook says it is the reason of his nickname, not that it is the reason to be called fastes ninja. To different things.


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Databook says it is the reason of his nickname, not that it is the reason to be called fastes ninja. To different things.

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Ay says Minato is faster than him which is true. Physically faster than him. No mention of FTG otherwise how can he surpass Minato? Or why wasnt Tobirama never mentioned when he also had FTG?

How can Minato leave a yellow flash if there is no movement? Why would Tsunade compare Naruto's feat with Minato's speed when one is instant and other is movement like you say? Why will Yamato say that Naruto is still not at Minato's level when if it was Instant Teleport he will never reach it? Why did Kakashi confuse Naruto blitzing the Biju Bombs with Minato? (Kakashi with Sharingan btw). Why did Obito portrayed Minato as the yellow flash when he saved Naruto even not using FTG? Minato was known as the yellow flash becuase his FTG. But know as the Fastest ninja due his speed. And the fastest ninja in history due the two thing.

You just confuse or not accept he is the fastest foot speed just becuase he has FTG.




Excellent. Perfect comment.



Bold, just because you say Tsunade know Minato's jutsu then it cant be pure movement? And then you say she compare Naruto's yellow flash with Minato? If Minato used only FTG there wont be a yellow flash in first place.



Raced FTG? hOW?
Is there any way I can love this response more than i actually can?

I've been trying to relay this across to Kidgamer for almost a week, only for my effort to be in vain because of his stone-walling and autistic screeching.
 

Guntah

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Not really SINCE IT WAS OFF PANEL. We didnt see from where he came from. Also, Kakashi even blitzed her attack to save Sakura, Sakura blitzed her reactions to hit her, Sasuke almost cut her with her susano. Unless all of them are near the same power then I wont doubt it.
Nothing of what you said is right. It wasn't off panel, we have a clear idea of distance, What Kakashi did is not a blitz, and the fact that Kaguya was in her 'out of control' mode changes things. Sakura's can be considered by the raw definition of the word, but then again she had both Naruto and Sasuke cornering Kaguya for her, so its hardly the same thing.

Also, they had Rikudou power ups. I dont think they still have them In Boruto Series.
And this is just another discussion entirely.
 

KidGamer65

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Now Minato reacting to Ay means his reflexes are faster? Do you even know what reflexes are or are you just this much of a autistic little tool? I’ll address the rest of your garbage post when I have time.
 

Glad Of War

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Now Minato reacting to Ay means his reflexes are faster? Do you even know what reflexes are or are you just this much of a autistic little tool? I’ll address the rest of your garbage post when I have time.
Yes it does.

When reacting to a movement, what comes before that is to perceive/see the moment. You cannot react to something without perceiving the movements, unless if your reaction is involuntary.

The , thus he has a faster reflex speed as he was able to see the movement, and exhibited enough recovery to use Hirashin.
 
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