Sasuke's Powers Unfair?

Kuroi Honoo

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If you believe Sasuke is an emo prick, that didn't deserve Itachi's love, and sacrifice.. You'd be right. Sasuke has turned his back on his brother, even after Itachi let only one Uchiha in the village live, that being his little brother Sasuke. Even after Itachi gave his life to allow Sasuke to live in peace.. Sasuke chose to follow Madara.. The Madara Uchiha that is the reason his clan is dead. What a fool! There's no reasonable excuse for what Sasuke's done. Try as Sasuke's fanboys might, there's nothing they can say that change the facts stated above. And that's the bottom line.~
I know that I am off topic with what I am about to say and the reason behind this is due to posts here that were either stated factual with no confirmation or was insolent.

Sasuke was pushed into a path of vengeance by non other than his brother. The plan was for Sasuke to end up killing Itachi and have his village look up to him as a hero. Although, his plan backfired as Sasuke grew obsessed and eventually became the blank canvas anyone could color as Itachi himself has stated. Sasuke even though having been scarred for life and seeking revenge seared into his brain by his own brother he later on as he bonded with his team mates began to stray away from that path and yet Orochimaru who was the second to intervene reawakened the desire for revenge that was gradually weakening. After Itachi died and Sasuke felt fulfilled Madara kidnaps him and then begins his manipulation. He proceeds to psychologically manipulate Sasuke in terms of changing his perception or behavior through underhanded and or deceptive tactics. A successful "psychological manipulator" is one who can conceal their own aggressive intentions and behaviors, to know the psychological vulnerabilities of the victim in which determines what tactics are likely the most effective and being ruthless to the point of having no existing qualms about causing harm to the victim if necessary. There are various techniques this type of manipulator uses and whereas Madara is concerned he resorts to:

1. Lying by omission: This is very subtle lying by detaining an ample amount of the truth.

2. Denial: The manipulator refuses to concede to having done something wrong.

3. Guilt tripping: A special kind of intimidation tactic. A manipulator suggests to the conscientious victim that he/she does not care enough, is too selfish or has it easy. This usually results in the victim feeling bad, keeping them in a self-doubting, anxious and submissive position.

4. Playing the victim role ("poor me"): Manipulator portrays him/herself as a victim of circumstance or of someone else's behavior in order to gain pity, sympathy or evoke compassion. Thereby getting something from another. Caring and conscientious people cannot stand to see anyone suffering and the manipulator often finds it easy to play on sympathy to get cooperation.

5. Projecting the blame (blaming others): The manipulator scapegoats in often subtle hard to detect ways.

This is more or less Uchiha Madara’s techniques in which added the final colors to the colored canvas that is Sasuke.


I have trouble believing Kishi would kill off his favorite character, but I'm not stupid enough to say he won't. There's a precious few ways Sasuke could come back now, and I'm not seeing signs of any of them right now. His brother deemed Sasuke more important, and Sasuke blew that too. He has made his brother's death mean absolutely nothing. Itachi's sacrifice was for NOTHING.~
Sasuke is Kishi’s favorite to illustrate and Naruto the titular/protagonist character is his favorite as he created Naruto in his own image-something people who hold great dislike for Sasuke’s character often either ill-informed or is done to get a rise out of (flamebait). Just as DeathPulse 16 has stated a couple times "He didn't turn his back on itachi, he did exactly what itachi did and he deemed his brother more important than the village". To say Sasuke spits in Iatchi’s grave is to say that Itachi as well spat at his orders of murdering his entire village as he allowed his brother to survive. It is amazing that Sasuke did not blame Itachi’s initial action of influencing him into the position of attaining revenge which has been the ignition for how he turned out. No, after he learned about Itachi’s true self he turned his hatred into love again for his brother and just as Itachi was selfish in Sasuke’s survival-Sasuke was selfish in desiring recognition for Iatchi’s sacrifice. Kakashi also has a role in Sasuke’s continuing actions as he took it into his own hands deciding to keep the truth about Itachi from the village as he thinks it would cause an uproar whereas Sasuke is being sacrificed as a result. When Kakashi encountered Sasuke he had the chance to least reason with him about knowing the truth, stating why he has kept it secret and how they can work about fixing that problem. Just as Naruto conversated with Sasuke who surprisingly allowed him to speak Kakashi may have helped by admitting this to him rather than keeping it quiet.

No... Sasuke has no right to be like this, there's nothing that can say that HE of all people does. He's lost a lot, that's true, but he's got a lot to be thankful for, and he's just said the hell with it all. And why? Because he can't accept life, the way Naruto can, the way Naruto's mother could, the way everyone but him seems too. Hell even Oro did something better with his life after growing up with no parents. As much of a Villain as Oro' was, he didn't do anything due to anger, he was inspired by life to challenge death. Back on topic, Sasuke killed the last person from the Leaf truly responsible for what happened to him. The only person left is the very Shinobi he persists to side with; Madara Uchiha. Itachi sacrificed himself for his brother, so Sasuke would never have to suffer like this.. And Sasuke could've easily chosen not too, but he chose to throw away Itachi's sacrifice, all the friends in the world, and his chance to rebuild his Clan.
Sasuke simply cannot be completely compared to Naruto or his mother. Naruto was an orphan who was ridiculed/ostracized and Kushina was simply ridiculed. Does that truly compare to suffering the vision of many murders over and over with influences, manipulation, and corruption? When you are manipulated your choices are now psychologically being altered to fit the user’s goals. Where Sasuke is concerned he has been well more than manipulated and his mentality is arguably another factor.

Back to topic: I do not think that Sasuke’s powers are unfair for the following reasons: If his powers are unfair then so should the Rikudou Sennin's power/Itachi (who seemingly was stronger)/Madara/Naruto/Nagato to name a few.
 
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Avani

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I know that I am off topic with what I am about to say and the reason behind this is due to posts here that were either stated factual with no confirmation or was insolent.

Sasuke was pushed into a path of vengeance by non other than his brother. The plan was for Sasuke to end up killing Itachi and have his village look up to him as a hero. Although, his plan backfired as Sasuke grew obsessed and eventually became the blank canvas anyone could color as Itachi himself has stated. Sasuke even though having been scarred for life and seeking revenge seared into his brain by his own brother he later on as he bonded with his team mates began to stray away from that path and yet Orochimaru who was the second to intervene reawakened the desire for revenge that was gradually weakening. After Itachi died and Sasuke felt fulfilled Madara kidnaps him and then begins his manipulation. He proceeds to psychologically manipulate Sasuke in terms of changing his perception or behavior through underhanded and or deceptive tactics. A successful "psychological manipulator" is one who can conceal their own aggressive intentions and behaviors, to know the psychological vulnerabilities of the victim in which determines what tactics are likely the most effective and being ruthless to the point of having no existing qualms about causing harm to the victim if necessary. There are various techniques this type of manipulator uses and whereas Madara is concerned he resorts to:

1. Lying by omission: This is very subtle lying by detaining an ample amount of the truth.

2. Denial: The manipulator refuses to concede to having done something wrong.

3. Guilt tripping: A special kind of intimidation tactic. A manipulator suggests to the conscientious victim that he/she does not care enough, is too selfish or has it easy. This usually results in the victim feeling bad, keeping them in a self-doubting, anxious and submissive position.

4. Playing the victim role ("poor me"): Manipulator portrays him/herself as a victim of circumstance or of someone else's behavior in order to gain pity, sympathy or evoke compassion. Thereby getting something from another. Caring and conscientious people cannot stand to see anyone suffering and the manipulator often finds it easy to play on sympathy to get cooperation.

5. Projecting the blame (blaming others): The manipulator scapegoats in often subtle hard to detect ways.

This is more or less Uchiha Madara’s techniques in which added the final colors to the colored canvas that is Sasuke.


Yeah, Actually we all agree that madara is manipulative, so what's with that pscholgical explaination? Are you a student of the subject or just got a link to the website?:p

Nobody is contesting that madara is manipulating Sasuke. Still, Sasuke was called a genious. he knows the raw facts- he is aware that Madara was himself involved in his clans massacre. He knows Madara was involved in Kyuubi attack- Itachi told him. The problem is that he has stopped thinking for himself altogether at the moment. He never had a real goal in his life but revenge. and after killing Itachi he substituted whole Konoha for it, a little too easily.

While Naruto has endured hate, rejections and disappointment for years and came out stronger and calmer more detrmined and thoughtfull, Sasuke couldn't handle negative emotions that well- maybe because of his relatively happier childhood, maybe because he is more like Madara than Itachi. Naruto has compassion- a quality Sasuke seem to lack at the moment. Revange is a negative emotion and it has blinded him - I think Uchiha blindness is a symbolism.

He already killed Danzou- the one most responsible for the massacre but in the process he just left his team to fend for itself in the enemy territory. he didn't care if Karin would die along with Danzou.

These actions show his fall from the grace- the light.

Sasuke is Kishi’s favorite to illustrate and Naruto the titular/protagonist character is his favorite as he created Naruto in his own image-something people who hold great dislike for Sasuke’s character often either ill-informed or is done to get a rise out of (flamebait). Just as DeathPulse 16 has stated a couple times "He didn't turn his back on itachi, he did exactly what itachi did and he deemed his brother more important than the village". To say Sasuke spits in Iatchi’s grave is to say that Itachi as well spat at his orders of murdering his entire village as he allowed his brother to survive. It is amazing that Sasuke did not blame Itachi’s initial action of influencing him into the position of attaining revenge which has been the ignition for how he turned out. No, after he learned about Itachi’s true self he turned his hatred into love again for his brother and just as Itachi was selfish in Sasuke’s survival-Sasuke was selfish in desiring recognition for Iatchi’s sacrifice. Kakashi also has a role in Sasuke’s continuing actions as he took it into his own hands deciding to keep the truth about Itachi from the village as he thinks it would cause an uproar whereas Sasuke is being sacrificed as a result. When Kakashi encountered Sasuke he had the chance to least reason with him about knowing the truth, stating why he has kept it secret and how they can work about fixing that problem. Just as Naruto conversated with Sasuke who surprisingly allowed him to speak Kakashi may have helped by admitting this to him rather than keeping it quiet.
Italics didn't make any sense to me. What was the point?

Sasuke didn't turn his back on Itachi? He found out why and how Itachi did what he did and decided to do exactly opposite of what Itachi was doing- destroying KOnoha and helping out Madara. He should know Itachi didn't want him to be with Madara since Itachi implanted ametrasu in Sasuke's eye to be activated as soon as he met madara.

What kind of twisted logic says that one will honour ones dead brother by destroying everything he gave his life for.

More than anything Itachi going to Naruto proves that he himself did not trust Sasuke entirely to fulfill his wishes and shared his power with Minato's heir to save Konoha and Sasuke.

I don't think Sasuke was going to talk things out with Kakashi. madara would have seen that it didn't happen at that point. But, as for Itachi's recognition, it would come.


Sasuke simply cannot be completely compared to Naruto or his mother. Naruto was an orphan who was ridiculed/ostracized and Kushina was simply ridiculed. Does that truly compare to suffering the vision of many murders over and over with influences, manipulation, and corruption? When you are manipulated your choices are now psychologically being altered to fit the user’s goals. Where Sasuke is concerned he has been well more than manipulated and his mentality is arguably another factor.

Back to topic: I do not think that Sasuke’s powers are unfair for the following reasons: If his powers are unfair then so should the Rikudou Sennin's power/Itachi (who seemingly was stronger)/Madara/Naruto/Nagato to name a few.
Kushina and Naruto were not just ridiculed because of being orphaned etc- they were hated being nine tailed hosts. How could you oversimplify this situation despite chapters by chapters being wasted on the issue? Reread the relevant chapters to refresh your memory.

As for comparing Naruto with Sasuke- that's started by Sasuke defenders otherwisethe thread is about Sasuke not Naruto.

Naruto worked hard for his powers suffers from Kyuubi retalliations and kyuubi chakra acts like poison- for a long time affected his ability to mold chaka etc.

Sasuke worked hard initially but lately he just gets a tap and more powers then he overused those powers too fast without practicing - goes blind and gets another power up just like that= EMS. That's what being refered to. Naruto is not being questioned because his progerssion to Rikodu mode was slowly built up in stages, not donated to him while sitting on a cot and this thread is not about him in the first place.
 
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Well if you are going to be a douche about it well then
Firstly it was a power boost that he did not earn.
Secondly it helped him out in every fight he was in that he still had it, it was a major boost to him, just because it was forced on him doesn't mean that it didn't help.
Examples: Sasuke vs. Deidara, Naruto, Itachi.
Sasuke’s Ten no Juin wasn’t exactly earned in the same sense as how a jutsu is learned / taught but is highly comparable to that of the Kyuubi’s chakra. Just as the bijuu was cast inside him without his constent the Juin was branded on Sasuke without his. Regardless of this, they both had been used by both of the them throughout the manga.

Orochimaru’s juinjutsu has an existing drawback that could make the user go insane with prolonged usage which is slightly comparable to how Naruto would become after releasing several Kyuubi tails. If I’m not mistaken Orochimaru had made a comment on how low survival rate was for being branded with the seal so in order to even make use of the Juin the victim would have to survive the process. Instead of giving him chakra from another existing source the juin forces out already dormant chakra within it’s user whereas the Kyuubi grants permission to use it's chakra. So the two aren’t exactly the same but could very well be compared to an extent.

Thirdly Sasuke did not get MS the normal way, he didn't kill Itachi and Itachi even gave him Amaterasu anyway as a defense against Madara.
Your argument about Sasuke not attaining Mangekyou / Amaterasu the normal way doesn’t seem conclusive for serveral reasons. The Mangekyou Sharingan’s requirements are obscure and shouldn’t only be restricted to having to kill the closest person to the user because it was unclear how Kakashi achieved this. Although a logical explanation to this occurance would be the user isn’t actually required to kill anyone but rather instead have to experience the loss of losing the person closest to them. I would also imagine that the sharingan bearer would also have at least three tomoe present beforehand as the Mangekyou is the next stage after the third tomoe.

I would also like to point out that Tensha Fuuin: Amaterasu was only a one shot usage of the doujutsu instead of the actual jutsu. Sasuke was seen using his very own Amaterasu during his fight against Kirabi.

Fourth, Sasuke has been shown doing no work he just jumps into fights and supposedly knows how to use these techniques that he has never trained with. How would he have trained when he has been in fighting constantly using those jutsus that he just got and hasn't had time to practice with?
The manga is called Naruto and is likely why we don’t see him train or even get flashbacks of it. He had trained during the timeskip and we only saw the results of this, he also during elapsed time attained a Taka summoning which according to your logic should have popped out of thin air?

I’m quite sure there are many other things the readers don’t get insight into because Sasuke isn’t the main character. After Itachi killed Shisui he was shown not to long afterwards torturing Sasuke with a remarkably powerful Tsukuyomi. We didn’t see any training or flashbacks regarding this so there really shouldn’t be much of an uprising among readers because of this. Elapsed time is something Kishimoto and many other mangaka have used before so one should be expectant of it.

P.S. How about you take your fail and and gtfo
We don’t need to resort to insults and can be mature about discussing the said topic, can we not?
I’m pretty sure you can get a point across without taking things / continuing to bring things to a personal level.

I will give you the personality points you mentioned, Sasuke DEFINITELY worked hard starting off when he was younger though saying he's like Minato was is a BIT excessive, I mean the main reason that Sasuke has such a skill difference is purely based on his upbringing. I mean Naruto didn't have anybody to teach him this stuff but Sasuke was constantly exposed to it with Itachi and then his dad. So i think calling him a genius is a bit of a stretch, I mean Kakashi made Jounin when he was like 12, THATS GENIUS. but I digress, look seriously, I'm not a Sasuke hater, he's actually a pretty cool character and depending on my mood I like his cool attitude more than Naruto's constant yelping. All I'm saying is that his Mangekyou Sharingan, in particular is sort of ridiculous. I mean it envelops him in this ridiculous spirit body guard that has immense attacks and amazing defense (Susano'o). I mean with Itachi, he got tired using Tsukyomi and Amaterasu (Once for each one) in one day and Sasuke just blows everything up with Amaterasu and to him, Tsukyomi is like nothing, it just seems unfair, JUST his MS I'm not saying Sasuke is an unskilled ninja or something
Yeah, I understand and agree with a lot of what you’ve stated but in exchange for the Mangekyou’s power the user must have a powerful will and strong resolve. We’ve seen Sasuke collapse in battle, cough up blood and have personally seen the deterioration of his eyes. I’m aware that EMS grants the user his eyesight once again but we don’t know if the strain from usage is still present or not. We also don’t know if it has any other drawbacks so until we get more information about we cannot be too sure. I would imagine it must have some boundaries / limitations to it’s power because if not, how would Naruto be able to oppose it?

If you like to a look below, these pages should help you remember Mangekyou’s strain on Sasuke: take notice of the sound effects (sfx) around Sasuke's panels.








Sasuke may have exceptional power but this power comes at a significant price.
 

Avani

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Yeah, I understand and agree with a lot of what you’ve stated but in exchange for the Mangekyou’s power the user must have a powerful will and strong resolve. We’ve seen Sasuke collapse in battle, cough up blood and have personally seen the deterioration of his eyes. I’m aware that EMS grants the user his eyesight once again but we don’t know if the strain from usage is still present or not. We also don’t know if it has any other drawbacks so until we get more information about we cannot be too sure. I would imagine it must have some boundaries / limitations to it’s power because if not, how would Naruto be able to oppose it?

If you like to a look below, these pages should help you remember Mangekyou’s strain on Sasuke: take notice of the sound effects (sfx) around Sasuke's panels.








Sasuke may have exceptional power but this power comes at a significant price.
The same effect was not that apparant on Itachi- I guess that's because he took his time practicing it and perfecting it. Sasuke has been spaming it and got blind a lot faster than Itachi within a short time because of overuse. Itachi had MS since he was 11. And now he got Itachi's eyes just like that- that's why it seems a bit too easy.

Though I don't think Madara is giving him this power for his sake. he made Sasuke overuse his newly acquired power and made him feel weak and thus ready to accept Itachi's eye which he had denied at first.

I don't think about Sasuke's power being fair or unfair. I already said only Rock Lee had a right to complain and he doesn't. :p But I do think Sasuke has lost himself totally at this point. Maybe Itachi's eyes will make him see light again.
 

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I never said he did dude, What im saying is that his mission is to clean the filth that covers the uchiha name because of the greddy elders. That's what sasuke wants now. His families name has been tarnished and turned a complete 180 from something to be proud of to something that is nearly shameful all because the elders were paranoid. The village elders are seriously disgusting in my opinion.
You are right the village elders are disgusting I can't believe that people in this forum blame Sasuke more than the elders they blame the innocent more than the the hypocrites.
 

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Yeah, Actually we all agree that madara is manipulative, so what's with that pscholgical explaination? Are you a student of the subject or just got a link to the website?:p

Nobody is contesting that madara is manipulating Sasuke. Still, Sasuke was called a genious. he knows the raw facts- he is aware that Madara was himself involved in his clans massacre. He knows Madara was involved in Kyuubi attack- Itachi told him. The problem is that he has stopped thinking for himself altogether at the moment. He never had a real goal in his life but revenge. and after killing Itachi he substituted whole Konoha for it, a little too easily.
What I meant was that Madara in my opinion is classified as a type of manipulator; "psychological manipulator" as the tools he used against Sasuke fits this type of manipulator and I simply went into detail about the techniques he used on him. This would also explain more or less how Sasuke was so easily tampered with and not that he simply choose his decisions. It goes far deeper than that. Madara played with his psyche which then in turn eventually grew more unstable as time passed. His crazy laughter, outbursts and persona change is very similar to the former unstable Gaara. Madara again throughout his manipulation/corruption fed him the info about Danzou and how Konoha the village his brother sacrificed his life for elected the man who forced the decision to wipe out their clan in the first place. Things added up and Sasuke felt justified in destroying all of the villagers as he thinks their enjoying life and laughing it up while still continuing to refer Itachi as an international criminal. I understand that everyone but the elders/Naruto/Kakashi/Yamato know the truth but Sasuke’s mentality continues to change his goals and actions as his mind deteriorates.

While Naruto has endured hate, rejections and disappointment for years and came out stronger and calmer more detrmined and thoughtfull, Sasuke couldn't handle negative emotions that well- maybe because of his relatively happier childhood, maybe because he is more like Madara than Itachi. Naruto has compassion- a quality Sasuke seem to lack at the moment. Revange is a negative emotion and it has blinded him - I think Uchiha blindness is a symbolism.

He already killed Danzou- the one most responsible for the massacre but in the process he just left his team to fend for itself in the enemy territory. he didn't care if Karin would die along with Danzou.

These actions show his fall from the grace- the light.
Can we all agree on one thing? Naruto was able to as you stated "came out stronger and calmer more detrmined and thoughtfull" than Sasuke due to no interventions, manipulations and corruption the ladder has had dealt to him since the age of seven. Sasuke’s persona did a one-eighty as he suddenly could kill anyone in his way and people he cared about. His mentality and the darkness is another factor in how he has turned out that many like to cast away. Sasuke and Madara aren’t all that similar as Madara like a psychopath is always cool calm and collected while Sasuke continues to fall into darkness, corruption and rage.

Italics didn't make any sense to me. What was the point?

Sasuke didn't turn his back on Itachi? He found out why and how Itachi did what he did and decided to do exactly opposite of what Itachi was doing- destroying KOnoha and helping out Madara. He should know Itachi didn't want him to be with Madara since Itachi implanted ametrasu in Sasuke's eye to be activated as soon as he met madara.

What kind of twisted logic says that one will honour ones dead brother by destroying everything he gave his life for.

More than anything Itachi going to Naruto proves that he himself did not trust Sasuke entirely to fulfill his wishes and shared his power with Minato's heir to save Konoha and Sasuke.

I don't think Sasuke was going to talk things out with Kakashi. madara would have seen that it didn't happen at that point. But, as for Itachi's recognition, it would come.
Itachi’s recognition will come but when? This is exactly what defines Sasuke’s newest goal of crushing Konoha's ninja as he feels Itachi’s sacrifice continues to go unacknowledged as the truth was never shared with Konoha due to the elders who have remained silent. Therefore he is sick as Konoha goes on living with Itachi's name tarnished. In his erratic mind he feels justified and I see him only thinking more and more crazy untrue things in the future which would further complicate his recovery.

Kushina and Naruto were not just ridiculed because of being orphaned etc- they were hated being nine tailed hosts. How could you oversimplify this situation despite chapters by chapters being wasted on the issue? Reread the relevant chapters to refresh your memory.
I will admit that I may have overstepped Kushina’s sufferings. However, like you asked I did in fact re-read those chapters and she did state that she was "suffocating under the pressure" and "the crushing loneliness that came with it" but then she goes on to quote a statement by Mito-sama to which Naruto asked if she was still happy and she replied yes. It would be quite exaggerating to say that her life was anywhere near that of her son’s (no offense). We can say in the beginning it could be compared to Naruto. I did say Naruto was ostracized/ridiculed therefore I wasn’t off with his sufferings but compared to Sasuke, in my honest opinion simply does not ring equal.

Naruto worked hard for his powers suffers from Kyuubi retalliations and kyuubi chakra acts like poison- for a long time affected his ability to mold chaka etc.

Sasuke worked hard initially but lately he just gets a tap and more powers then he overused those powers too fast without practicing - goes blind and gets another power up just like that= EMS. That's what being refered to. Naruto is not being questioned because his progerssion to Rikodu mode was slowly built up in stages, not donated to him while sitting on a cot and this thread is not about him in the first place.
Sasuke’s doujutsu (excluding Eien no Mangelyou) should never be classed as a gift or passed on as the requirements for regular Sharingan/three tomoes and Mangekyou are unlocked through certain circumstances either through training/the pain of a lost one. One cannot factually state that Sasuke did not train off screen for his Tsukuyomi/Susanoo. This is evident by Juugo’s quote of "Is this what he wanted to try out?" meaning Sasuke already had previous knowledge of Susanoo (which he wanted to test out in actual battle) and his taka summoning where as far as we all know can only be acquired through a contract which as well was never shown.
 
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Itachi’s recognition will come but when? This is exactly what defines Sasuke’s newest goal of crushing Konoha's ninja as he feels Itachi’s sacrifice continues to go unacknowledged as the truth was never shared with Konoha due to the elders who have remained silent. Therefore he is sick as Konoha goes on living with Itachi's name tarnished. In his erratic mind he feels justified and I see him only thinking more and more crazy untrue things in the future which would further complicate his recovery.
I think when Naruto confronts Sasuke. -- he has been in shinobi world long enough to understand the meaning of spy and undercover cop.. He didn't even try to talk to kakashi about it himself either.

The way I see it he isn't angry that itachi wasn't recognized ( that was partly Itachi's choice- he didn't want it to become common knowledge that Uchiha's were planning a coup detate) but his complaint was that Konoha lived in peace while his brother suffered and his clan died.. Like he said he is unable to process the whole scenario.


I will admit that I may have overstepped Kushina’s sufferings. However, like you asked I did in fact re-read those chapters and she did state that she was "suffocating under the pressure" and "the crushing loneliness that came with it" but then she goes on to quote a statement by Mito-sama to which Naruto asked if she was still happy and she replied yes. It would be quite exaggerating to say that her life was anywhere near that of her son’s (no offense). We can say in the beginning it could be compared to Naruto. I did say Naruto was ostracized/ridiculed therefore I wasn’t off with his sufferings but compared to Sasuke, in my honest opinion simply does not ring equal.

Well Kushina was happy because of Minato- He loved her and all that. Mito basically said her concentrate her on that part. Off course Kushina didn't suffer as much as Naruto.

Compared to sasuke- well Madara caused them both to be orphaned- he orchestrated things from behind the curtains. Sasuke had his family for 10 years where Naruto had no one almost from the start. Yet there are differences too- Naruto lost his parents while they were fighting for the village and had no one to begin with. Sasuke lost his family because it was plotting against the village..

What Sasuke needs to realise is that Madara has caused the trouble for all..

Sasuke’s doujutsu (excluding Eien no Mangelyou) should never be classed as a gift or passed on as the requirements for regular Sharingan/three tomoes and Mangekyou are unlocked through certain circumstances either through training/the pain of a lost one. One cannot factually state that Sasuke did not train off screen for his Tsukuyomi/Susanoo. This is evident by Juugo’s quote of "Is this what he wanted to try out?" meaning Sasuke already had previous knowledge of Susanoo (which he wanted to test out in actual battle) and his taka summoning where as far as we all know can only be acquired through a contract which as well was never shown.[/CENTER][/QUOTE]

If you check out my posts in the thread- you won't find me complaining about Sharingan and related powers- that's Uchiha KG like Naruto's Chakra.
though I don't think he practiced enough lately- he is using it like a new found toy- he was going blind already!. Itachi attined MS at the age of 11 and yet it took a longer for him to lose his eye sight.

What annoyed many people I think is that he took Itachi's eye just like that while throwing everything Itachi stood for, away.
 

DeathPulse16

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I think when Naruto confronts Sasuke. -- he has been in shinobi world long enough to understand the meaning of spy and undercover cop.. He didn't even try to talk to kakashi about it himself either.

The way I see it he isn't angry that itachi wasn't recognized ( that was partly Itachi's choice- he didn't want it to become common knowledge that Uchiha's were planning a coup detate) but his complaint was that Konoha lived in peace while his brother suffered and his clan died.. Like he said he is unable to process the whole scenario.


I will admit that I may have overstepped Kushina’s sufferings. However, like you asked I did in fact re-read those chapters and she did state that she was "suffocating under the pressure" and "the crushing loneliness that came with it" but then she goes on to quote a statement by Mito-sama to which Naruto asked if she was still happy and she replied yes. It would be quite exaggerating to say that her life was anywhere near that of her son’s (no offense). We can say in the beginning it could be compared to Naruto. I did say Naruto was ostracized/ridiculed therefore I wasn’t off with his sufferings but compared to Sasuke, in my honest opinion simply does not ring equal.

Well Kushina was happy because of Minato- He loved her and all that. Mito basically said her concentrate her on that part. Off course Kushina didn't suffer as much as Naruto.

Compared to sasuke- well Madara caused them both to be orphaned- he orchestrated things from behind the curtains. Sasuke had his family for 10 years where Naruto had no one almost from the start. Yet there are differences too- Naruto lost his parents while they were fighting for the village and had no one to begin with. Sasuke lost his family because it was plotting against the village..

What Sasuke needs to realise is that Madara has caused the trouble for all..

Sasuke’s doujutsu (excluding Eien no Mangelyou) should never be classed as a gift or passed on as the requirements for regular Sharingan/three tomoes and Mangekyou are unlocked through certain circumstances either through training/the pain of a lost one. One cannot factually state that Sasuke did not train off screen for his Tsukuyomi/Susanoo. This is evident by Juugo’s quote of "Is this what he wanted to try out?" meaning Sasuke already had previous knowledge of Susanoo (which he wanted to test out in actual battle) and his taka summoning where as far as we all know can only be acquired through a contract which as well was never shown.[/CENTER]
If you check out my posts in the thread- you won't find me complaining about Sharingan and related powers- that's Uchiha KG like Naruto's Chakra.
though I don't think he practiced enough lately- he is using it like a new found toy- he was going blind already!. Itachi attined MS at the age of 11 and yet it took a longer for him to lose his eye sight.

What annoyed many people I think is that he took Itachi's eye just like that while throwing everything Itachi stood for, away.[/QUOTE]

He didn't take itachis eyes, "Just like that." sasuke flat out refused to implant itachis eyes even after he learned about the EMS. He refused the implant without a single hesitation. He only agreed to implant them because he was just about blind and because of narutos big mouth
 

DeathPulse16

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I think when Naruto confronts Sasuke. -- he has been in shinobi world long enough to understand the meaning of spy and undercover cop.. He didn't even try to talk to kakashi about it himself either.

The way I see it he isn't angry that itachi wasn't recognized ( that was partly Itachi's choice- he didn't want it to become common knowledge that Uchiha's were planning a coup detate) but his complaint was that Konoha lived in peace while his brother suffered and his clan died.. Like he said he is unable to process the whole scenario.


I will admit that I may have overstepped Kushina’s sufferings. However, like you asked I did in fact re-read those chapters and she did state that she was "suffocating under the pressure" and "the crushing loneliness that came with it" but then she goes on to quote a statement by Mito-sama to which Naruto asked if she was still happy and she replied yes. It would be quite exaggerating to say that her life was anywhere near that of her son’s (no offense). We can say in the beginning it could be compared to Naruto. I did say Naruto was ostracized/ridiculed therefore I wasn’t off with his sufferings but compared to Sasuke, in my honest opinion simply does not ring equal.

Well Kushina was happy because of Minato- He loved her and all that. Mito basically said her concentrate her on that part. Off course Kushina didn't suffer as much as Naruto.

Compared to sasuke- well Madara caused them both to be orphaned- he orchestrated things from behind the curtains. Sasuke had his family for 10 years where Naruto had no one almost from the start. Yet there are differences too- Naruto lost his parents while they were fighting for the village and had no one to begin with. Sasuke lost his family because it was plotting against the village..

What Sasuke needs to realise is that Madara has caused the trouble for all..

Sasuke’s doujutsu (excluding Eien no Mangelyou) should never be classed as a gift or passed on as the requirements for regular Sharingan/three tomoes and Mangekyou are unlocked through certain circumstances either through training/the pain of a lost one. One cannot factually state that Sasuke did not train off screen for his Tsukuyomi/Susanoo. This is evident by Juugo’s quote of "Is this what he wanted to try out?" meaning Sasuke already had previous knowledge of Susanoo (which he wanted to test out in actual battle) and his taka summoning where as far as we all know can only be acquired through a contract which as well was never shown.[/CENTER]
If you check out my posts in the thread- you won't find me complaining about Sharingan and related powers- that's Uchiha KG like Naruto's Chakra.
though I don't think he practiced enough lately- he is using it like a new found toy- he was going blind already!. Itachi attined MS at the age of 11 and yet it took a longer for him to lose his eye sight.

What annoyed many people I think is that he took Itachi's eye just like that while throwing everything Itachi stood for, away.[/QUOTE]

Also, Just like Kuroi Honoo Has stated above. Sasuke hasn't thrown away a thing itachi stood for. Sasuke turned his hatred for his brother, whom he was manipulated and raised to hate and have the desire to kill, into a deep love for his big brother that went against his orders and spared sasukes life. I really can't believe how many people blame sasuke for all this when it's all the elders doing. Sasuke's whole life was played out like a fiddle and he was manipulated because of that. You really can't compare him to naruto, they both have suffered, granted but, it greatly different ways. Naruto never knew his family to know the pain of losing them. Then he meets his father. Sasuke has lost All of his family, all of them.
 

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*cough cough* you have to kill your closest friend, in this case it's either itachi or naruto in order to gain MS, and not through pain. The pain is only exceeding his power limits which can be seen when he fought Danzo. He didn't earn MS... for you defeating a half-dead man, you can call a fair earned reward? And it's not just the MS hence it has it's best abilities he has gotten so far :)

EDIT: and for what reason were comparing naruto to sasuke? isn't this thread is about only sasuke and not how naruto is stronger than sasuke? Come on sasuke fanboys :]
Dude, go back and re-read or watch the show again. You obviously missed a few things. If MS can only be obtained by killing the person closest to you then explain Kakashi's MS to me. Also, Sasuke didn't kill itachi, Itachi died of other causes. People love to point that out until they talk about the MS then sasuke magically killed him. It's more likely than not that it's the pain of losing the one closest to you that awakens the MS. Which explains kakashi's MS and Sasuke's.

Btw, don't refer to people as fanboys simply because they don't agree with you. It's childish. We don't know if sasuke is stronger then naruto or vice versa, that's something we simply have no idea about wheter people like it or not.
 

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Also, Just like Kuroi Honoo Has stated above. Sasuke hasn't thrown away a thing itachi stood for. Sasuke turned his hatred for his brother, whom he was manipulated and raised to hate and have the desire to kill, into a deep love for his big brother that went against his orders and spared sasukes life. I really can't believe how many people blame sasuke for all this when it's all the elders doing. Sasuke's whole life was played out like a fiddle and he was manipulated because of that. You really can't compare him to naruto, they both have suffered, granted but, it greatly different ways. Naruto never knew his family to know the pain of losing them. Then he meets his father. Sasuke has lost All of his family, all of them.
It's a matter of opinion and I strongly disagree on the issue about Itachi's intention and Sasuke's reaction. But, itachi had anticipated that too and he went to Naruto to solve that problem and eventually it will be taken care of.

Sasuke's character is there to make Naruto shine brighter- accept it or not.

BTW Naruto has lost all his family, all of them and hated by the village had to make his place for himself in the village, inch by inch- thanks to Uchiha madara- don't ignore that. He didn't meet his father- he got to see a reflection of his parents in his memory for a few minutes.

Naruto's parents died saving the village and he was hated by all- Sasuke's parents died trying to start a civil war and got sympathy because nobody knew the truth.

Itachi knew Madara won't let go the village nor his clan and ultimately destory both. He made a decision to contain him to the smaller group's destruction at the time , which was also posing the threat to the larger group. In return he bought time for the village to be ready for Madara when he finally makes his move for the whole pie.

Itachi made sure that Uchiha name was not tarnished and their plan of coup detate remains a secret- for that he took the rap and left the village. He left Sasuke to emerge as a hero and to reinstate the clan in time with no negative history.

Itachi was able to process this much at 13-14. Sasuke is at least 16. Sasuke may be a genious in his own way but Itachi was superior to him as a shinobi.
 

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It's a matter of opinion and I strongly disagree on the issue about Itachi's intention and Sasuke's reaction. But, itachi had anticipated that too and he went to Naruto to solve that problem and eventually it will be taken care of.

Sasuke's character is there to make Naruto shine brighter- accept it or not.

BTW Naruto has lost all his family, all of them and hated by the village had to make his place for himself in the village, inch by inch- thanks to Uchiha madara- don't ignore that. He didn't meet his father- he got to see a reflection of his parents in his memory for a few minutes.

Naruto's parents died saving the village and he was hated by all- Sasuke's parents died trying to start a civil war and got sympathy because nobody knew the truth.

Itachi knew Madara won't let go the village nor his clan and ultimately destory both. He made a decision to contain him to the smaller group's destruction at the time , which was also posing the threat to the larger group. In return he bought time for the village to be ready for Madara when he finally makes his move for the whole pie.

Itachi made sure that Uchiha name was not tarnished and their plan of coup detate remains a secret- for that he took the rap and left the village. He left Sasuke to emerge as a hero and to reinstate the clan in time with no negative history.

Itachi was able to process this much at 13-14. Sasuke is at least 16. Sasuke may be a genious in his own way but Itachi was superior to him as a shinobi.
I'm going to avoid yet another argument over just how little you really understand. I get your opinion and i respect it but, you're really not getting alot. It doesn't matter how their parents died. Sasuke had to helplessly suffer the loss of his mom and dad at the hands of his brother first hand. Where as naruto just didn't have family. Naruto didn't lose anything because he never had anything to lose. I get itachi made it out to be that sasuke was a hero but, sasuke choose his love for his brother over being the hero of the people that killed his family. That's extremely reasonable. I, Myself, as a big brother, would prefer that my little brother do what he feels is right and if it comes with consequences and so on, then let them befall him.
 

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While Naruto has endured hate, rejections and disappointment for years and came out stronger and calmer more detrmined and thoughtfull, Sasuke couldn't handle negative emotions that well- maybe because of his relatively happier childhood, maybe because he is more like Madara than Itachi. Naruto has compassion- a quality Sasuke seem to lack at the moment. Revange is a negative emotion and it has blinded him - I think Uchiha blindness is a symbolism.

He already killed Danzou- the one most responsible for the massacre but in the process he just left his team to fend for itself in the enemy territory. he didn't care if Karin would die along with Danzou.

These actions show his fall from the grace- the light
First Bold part

Sasuke suffered more pain than Naruto, that's one thing you can't reject he saw his clan being killed and suffered this trauma, Sasuke moved forward he lived with pain and his goal which made him stronger, he never gave up Naruto endured hate, he practiced but he was always a step behind Sasuke and I explained the reason.

Second Bold part

At the moment he defeated Danzo he was over-helmed by hatred and only cared about his desire to revenge ( because he waited so long to find the man who was responsible for the Uchiha massacre and know he couldn't wait to kill him) but Sasuke will never fall from his grace/light because he is achieving it and not losing it, that grace/ light was lost at the Uchiha massacre and Sasuke will find it again, because he will never give up... NEVER.

*cough cough* you have to kill your closest friend, in this case it's either itachi or naruto in order to gain MS, and not through pain. The pain is only exceeding his power limits which can be seen when he fought Danzo. He didn't earn MS... for you defeating a half-dead man, you can call a fair earned reward? And it's not just the MS hence it has it's best abilities he has gotten so far :)

EDIT: and for what reason were comparing naruto to sasuke? isn't this thread is about only sasuke and not how naruto is stronger than sasuke? Come on sasuke fanboys :]
First Bold part
Actually Itachi wanted to fight with Sasuke even if Itachi was "half-dead", Itachi wanted to give Sasuke his powers it was this the reason why he fought with Sasuke, before they fought he gave his power a long ago repeatingly to Sasuke, Sasuke never noticed that, he wanted Sasuke to survive, he wanted him to live with pain and at the end he gave his power to Sasuke and they weren't unfair but they were as a reward that he gave to Sasuke for coming that far and surviving in order to kill his brother, he entrusted his powers to Sasuke knowing that that his duty was finished, knowing that he would leave behind a brother which could survive, Itachi acted as Sasuke parent everytime.


Second Bold part
Naruto isn't stronger than Sasuke, I'm just sure about one thing: Sasuke's goal is to revive his clan he know that he must survive in order to do that either way no one will fulfill his goal and when he want to "survive" every single person must fear him, we have seen many times Sasuke's intelligence and he still has it but since Sasuke came so far and severed his bonds with the friends he had, he knows for sure how to handle the situation.
 
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