Sasuke never betrayed Konoha, Konoha betrayed him

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The clan only resorted to such aplan because of how the senju treated them. They wrongfully pushed them to the side even though the uchiha had just as much right to the village

go and read the whole explanation on why it was done so, they were given more responsibilities and power than the other clans so that they can channel their abilities for the good of the village rather than turn into a copy of madara

it is hilarious that you are trying to paint the village as some kind of bully
 

DeathPulse16

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go and read the whole explanation on why it was done so, they were given more responsibilities and power than the other clans so that they can channel their abilities for the good of the village rather than turn into a copy of madara

it is hilarious that you are trying to paint the village as some kind of bullies

Who cares? They were still forced under the shadow of the senju even though the uchiha was just as responsible for the village even existing. If you opened a successful business with a friend only for him to shove you to the side and be responsible and known for a much smaller part of that business, you would be pissed too and you wouldnt try to reason with someone who does that
 

ShiroT

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Youre trying to confuse the subject and convolute the facts. I have proven youwrong numerous times and you're only real retort is the uchiha shouldve tried to reason with people that were already hostile tothem, which makes zero sense. It doesnt matter if tobirama wasnt around, it was hiruzens problem and he didnt lift a finger to fix it, thats a simple fact.

you havent disproved anything. you just want to place all the blame on the leaf without letting the uchiha take any responsibility for their actions. the 3rd hokage was never hostile towards the uchiha. they only needed to talk to the 3rd hokage, who was the hokage. nobody else who was not the hokage did not matter.

its also a simple fact that the uchiha didnt lift a single finger either. it makes alot of sense. the 3rd hokage was never hostile towards him and was against the massacre so it wouldve been easy for sasuke's father to talk to sarutobi on the matter but he didnt.

fact: the uchiha did nothing but threaten the village security. while yes the 3rd didnt really do anything to help the uchiha did nothing but dig their own grave. place blame where blame is due
 

Flawž

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They only made that plan because they were wronged in the first place. You just proved my point

I already told you that tobirama "shoved" them to the outskirts of the village only to put their abilities to good use. They were in charge of the police force and were taken away from the village in order to avoid another incident similar to madara.

The uchiha took that as an insult and wrongly blamed the village for it, causing them to plot behind the village so they can attack it.

Uchiha started it and they got taken care of immediately.
 

DeathPulse16

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you havent disproved anything. you just want to place all the blame on the leaf without letting the uchiha take any responsibility for their actions. the 3rd hokage was never hostile towards the uchiha. they only needed to talk to the 3rd hokage, who was the hokage. nobody else who was not the hokage did not matter.

its also a simple fact that the uchiha didnt lift a single finger either. it makes alot of sense. the 3rd hokage was never hostile towards him and was against the massacre so it wouldve been easy for sasuke's father to talk to sarutobi on the matter but he didnt.

fact: the uchiha did nothing but threaten the village security. while yes the 3rd didnt really do anything to help the uchiha did nothing but dig their own grave. place blame where blame is due

So youre saying he shouldve tried to reason with the direct successor and student of the people that wronged them? That makes no sense what so ever
 

ShiroT

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Who cares? They were still forced under the shadow of the senju even though the uchiha was just as responsible for the village even existing. If you opened a successful business with a friend only for him to shove you to the side and be responsible and known for a much smaller part of that business, you would be pissed too and you wouldnt try to reason with someone who does that

yea i would being a civilized person i would straight up walk to hi face and tell him what he did was wrong. maybe YOUR not . . . . .i want to say wise. . .maybe, i cant think of the word right now. . . . doesnt mean you have to force yourself in this debate. Logically there would be people for and against the coup and logically there would be people open to say protesting the hokage.

your the only one making this difficult
 

ShiroT

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So youre saying he shouldve tried to reason with the direct successor and student of the people that wronged them? That makes no sense what so ever

yes especially when we know that that successor did not have the same ideas as his teacher and new for a fact there was a problem.

just know this, if we were both the head of uchiha, your rash decisions wouldve gotten your clan killed while i maybe couldve made the problem better a little bit. i dont know if the coup will still happen all that matters is that i actually tried instead of doing something a drastic s that
 
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DeathPulse16

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I already told you that tobirama "shoved" them to the outskirts of the village only to put their abilities to good use. They were in charge of the police force and were taken away from the village in order to avoid another incident similar to madara.

The uchiha took that as an insult and wrongly blamed the village for it, causing them to plot behind the village so they can attack it.

Uchiha started it and they got taken care of immediately.

the whole thing was an insult, they were also the creators of that village alongside the senju and the senju acted like they were the most important clan and pushed the uchiha back into the shadows, tobirama can sugar coat it all he wants, it doesnt take a genuis to figure out what he did was wrong on many levels.
 

DeathPulse16

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yea i would being a civilized person i would straight up walk to hi face and tell him what he did was wrong. maybe YOUR not . . . . .i want to say wise. . .maybe, i cant think of the word right now. . . . doesnt mean you have to force yourself in this debate. Logically there would be people for and against the coup and logically there would be people open to say protesting the hokage.

your the only one making this difficult

The fact that you have to resort to a childish insult is the most telling thing of all. I have no desire to talk to someone who will resort to such a level.
 

Flawž

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the whole thing was an insult, they were also the creators of that village alongside the senju and the senju acted like they were the most important clan and pushed the uchiha back into the shadows, tobirama can sugar coat it all he wants, it doesnt take a genuis to figure out what he did was wrong on many levels.

They were pushed because of their clan's curse. Do you not know what happened to madara? he was just as much into the village as hashirama but he took the wrong path because he was butthurt? What if another uchiha gets butthurt later on and decides to destroy the village?

The village did the right thing and the uchiha took it the wrong way and decided to go to war with the village.
 

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Tobirama just made it easy for Danzo to get them killed. Tobirama isolated them and Danzo just finished the job. Pretty sick .
 

ShiroT

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The fact that you have to resort to a childish insult is the most telling thing of all. I have no desire to talk to someone who will resort to such a level.

it wasnt a insult i couldnt think of a word to describe what you sounded like to me. . . .i was thinking aggressive but that didnt sound right idk maybe rash, i cant find a word but that wasnt meant as a insult. maybe rash was the word im looking for. or maybe one-sided/biased for the uchiha
 

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No...Sasuke betrayed Konoha. It wasn't as simple as telling Sasuke what really happened. The third knew Itachi was protecting Kohona from within the Akatsuki, but if Sasuke knew the truth it would only endanger the rouse that kept the village safe. Itachi wanted that safety for Sasuke and for Konoha, and that's why he prevented the coup. Itachi was put in a horrible position that meant the death of his family or the death of the village and his family. He chose the less damaging option and let his brother live, who was obviously not involved in the coup at that age.

Sasuke grew up alone, and so he was selfish. He had both a superiority and an inferiority complex. He became unstable and almost soulless for a time. At least now he can make up for it.
 

LogicnoJutsu

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Didn't Konoha kind of give Sasuke a terrible depressing life? It seems to me that Konoha betrayed Sasuke, way before Sasuke "betrayed" them. What do you think? A high ranked elder with a cane aka Danzo was the reason his family was slaughtered. Danzo treated his family like wild animals, and provoked the Uchiha to take their eyes, and nobody cared to stop Danzo in time. What do you think?

If Sasuke proved Danzo was a traitor, would Sasuke's name be cleared? Also, it's not like you can keep Sasuke in a jail cell. Amaterasu, susanoo, chidori or his teleportation will easily get him out of there. This isn't even coming from a Sasuke fan, all I'm saying is Danzo was the real traitor here.

This is 100% true, all you naysayers need to look at it from Sasukes point of view. He was already isolated from the village since he was born. The Uchiha part of the village is all he knows as home and then suddenly its taken away from him along with his family. And now he lives alone in some apartment in the leaf village from about 8 to 12 until he decided to go live in caves with a snake man. Sasukes live since His home was taken away from his own brother is his own version of hell.

And he wants revenge on the one responsible, but when he finds out that he was just a pawn to be used to do it and it was ordered by the Leaf village.... Did you really expect him to not destroy the home of the man responsible for destroying his home. Sasuke doesn't give a **** about the details atm he just knows that the Leaf is responsible for forcing his brother to murder his whole family.
 

Behemoth55

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I can understand why Sasuke declared vengeance against the elders and "Senju", but that doesn't count for the innocent people like women and children of Konoha. This way he woudn't be any better than Danzō and the others.

The account for the Uchihas Coup d'etat has been clearly stated. After Madara fought with Hashirama to obtain his cells, Tobirama removed the Uchiha from the governing body of the village and placed the entire clan under close scrutiny in one fell swoop. That was the beginning of Uchihas discrimination. Tobiramas intention behind that wasn't bad at all, but his naive approach made things even worse. No reason to deny it.

Then Obito attacked Konoha and the Uchiha were again the centre of attention. Because of that incedent the whole Clan was relocated. That was the beginning of Sasuke Uchihas story and tragedy.
I can't blame him for his hate against the elders-especially Danzō. They didn't kill only the involved Uchiha like Sasukes father, Fukaku Uchiha, but even the women and children.

We should consider that the village betrayed the Uchiha long before they had planned those Coup D'etat. However, the plan to take over the village by force isn't good either.
One good side about Sasuke is that he isn't bound by Konohas "mindset" and hasn't been indoctrinated in the same way as Itachi Uchiha.
Sasuke burdens the will of the whole Uchiha currently. He wants to protect Itachis, but Izunas wish too. I think, his character is more interesting than Itachis, because he's different and made mistakes.

Sasuke has been betrayed by Konoha, but has betrayed it too.
 

TrollKing

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I can understand why Sasuke declared vengeance against the elders and "Senju", but that doesn't count for the innocent people like women and children of Konoha. This way he woudn't be any better than Danzō and the others.

The account for the Uchihas Coup d'etat has been clearly stated. After Madara fought with Hashirama to obtain his cells, Tobirama removed the Uchiha from the governing body of the village and placed the entire clan under close scrutiny in one fell swoop. That was the beginning of Uchihas discrimination. Tobiramas intention behind that wasn't bad at all, but his naive approach made things even worse. No reason to deny it.

Then Obito attacked Konoha and the Uchiha were again the centre of attention. Because of that incedent the whole Clan was relocated. That was the beginning of Sasuke Uchihas story and tragedy.
I can't blame him for his hate against the elders-especially Danzō. They didn't kill only the involved Uchiha like Sasukes father, Fukaku Uchiha, but even the women and children.

We should consider that the village betrayed the Uchiha long before they had planned those Coup D'etat. However, the plan to take over the village by force isn't good either.
One good side about Sasuke is that he isn't bound by Konohas "mindset" and hasn't been indoctrinated in the same way as Itachi Uchiha.
Sasuke burdens the will of the whole Uchiha currently. He wants to protect Itachis, but Izunas wish too. I think, his character is more interesting than Itachis, because he's different and made mistakes.

Sasuke has been betrayed by Konoha, but has betrayed it too.

So obito is the bastard to blame then.

And itachi made far worse mistake. He killed uchiha old women and children. Sasuke can not beat that
 

Gamaken

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I think Danzo is mostly to blame personally. Shisui tries to use kotoakatsukami on Fugaku? Danzo rips out his eye for power. Hiruzen tries to show confidence in the Uchiha by giving them more responsibilities and power? He's overruled by Danzo and the shitty advisors. Hiruzen tries to talk with Fugaku? Danzo goes ahead and gets Itachi to carry out the slaughter. If only Hiruzen had given Danzo the sack earlier. Nothing good seems to come from Danzo manipulating the darkness in the village. Those two advisors need to go too.
 

the last shinobi

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I agree with you on most of this. The third knew about the coup and as a leader of the village had a duty to protect it but also as a leader, he has the responsibility of looking for the most diplomatic solution. He simply shouldve arranged to meet with fugaku and have a talk and understamding with him, if and only if, fugaku was still hostile after the meeting then he shouldve taken the measures he did. All that being said, the coup had nothing to do with sasuke and I highly doubt every single uchiha was part of it, there mustve been children sasukes age or you ger that were slaughtered simply because they belonged to the family they did. What konoha did was nothing but cold murder. People seem to think that sasuke was the only kid in the uchiha at the time, ehich common sense says simply isnt true. Therefore konoha slayed innocents to save thier own skin and didnt even try to pursue a diplomatic solution. This is why they kept the truth from the villagers. People can say all they want but it was simply murder or genocide. So yes, konoha betrayed him when he was just a boy. And to everyone who says that danzo or hiruzen did, not konoha, keep in mind one was an elder or the village, the other a hokage, they speak and represent the village, their actions are the actions of the village.


this 10 char
 

TheEvilOne

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Shitachi is the only one who betrayed him.
 

the last shinobi

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No, i'm talking about after the massacre. The uchiha massacre was their own fault. they wanted to go against the entire village and they would of lost horribly.

I don't think they would have lost if they attacked first and itachi wasn't biggest Benedict Arnold in the history of the Uchiha. he attack them with a surprise trump card which was Obito i sincerely doubt that itachi by myself nor that team danzo and the 3 rd brought to their part of the village could have stopped the Uchiha.

Another thing that urks me when people talk about this like the uchiha didn't have for real gripe they were one of the two founding members of the village and they are ostracized then looked down upon...no these are the same arguments that people have saying that naruto had it so hard as a kid because but this entire group of people were treated like this and people come back with oh the uchiha should have just taken it cause its the village wtf
 
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