Sasuke and Madara

[DHOH]

Sasuke wasn't a genius though, he was a prodigy, it's not the same thing. When he countered Itachi's genjutsu it was because of his talent, when he mastered Lee's taijutsu it was because of talent, when he invented Kirin it was because of talent.

Geniuses are the likes of Shikamaru, Itachi and Minato, they have prodigious skill but their intellect is what stands out the most. When you look at their fighting style you can tell they rely mostly on their ability to analyze the opponent, when you look at Sasuke he relies less on rational thinking and more on his prodigious talent, like Madara.

Sasuke was called a genius multiple times in the manga and to say he's not is completely false. Sasuke beat dederia because he figured out his element. That's a genius feat. He planed and prayed on orochimaru and beat him when he was weaken.. That's a genius feat. The sane with Danzou..
Fact is Sasuke and Madara can do both.

 

[SenseiSama]

Sasuke was called a genius multiple times in the manga and to say he's not is completely false. Sasuke beat dederia because he figured out his element. That's a genius feat. He planed and prayed on orochimaru and beat him when he was weaken.. That's a genius feat. The sane with Danzou..
Fact is Sasuke and Madara can do both.

That;s the problem, the term genius was thrown around so blatantly, kinda like how Kakashi's generation would call someone like Hiruzen a "god" when that was very far from the case.



Sasuke was incredibly smart yes, incredibly disciplined yes, but he was no genius. He never displayed that x factor Itachi has shown. All his greatest feats came from his sheer talent not his intellect. If he were a genius he would've possessed Itachi's skills from day 1 which again was very far from the case, he had to work hard to be OP.

 

[DHOH]

That;s the problem, the term genius was thrown around so blatantly, kinda like how Kakashi's generation would call someone like Hiruzen a "god" when that was very far from the case.



Sasuke was incredibly smart yes, incredibly disciplined yes, but he was no genius. He never displayed that x factor Itachi has shown. All his greatest feats came from his sheer talent not his intellect. If he were a genius he would've possessed Itachi's skills from day 1 which again was very far from the case, he had to work hard to be OP.

I gave you three examples and you ignore them.. Itachi work his ass off to be strong.. I'm done here.. Bottom line is magna disagrees.

 

[King Of Pop]

I see smartasses coming here with their own distinction of genius or prodigy to discredit sasuke as if the manga makes any sort of difference. whatever distinction you want to call it, genius/prodigy whichever is the case, sasuke is everything. high intellect, battle strategy, jutsu creatiuvity, the guy excels in all and the manga has recognized it either through statements or feats. there is no feat that the other so called geniuses have showcased that there is not a close equivalent of sasuke, none whatsoever. and did someone put neji above him? laughable.

As for madara, not too sure about him though.

 

[DHOH]

I see smartasses coming here with their own distinction of genius or prodigy to discredit sasuke as if the manga makes any sort of difference. whatever distinction you want to call it, genius/prodigy whichever is the case, sasuke is everything. high intellect, battle strategy, jutsu creatiuvity, the guy excels in all and the manga has recognized it either through statements or feats. there is no feat that the other so called geniuses have showcased that there is not a close equivalent of sasuke, none whatsoever. and did someone put neji above him? laughable.

As for madara, not too sure about him though.

I agree with Sasuke part, but Madara was also called a prodigy at a very young age.

 

[Hakke]

Lee is a genius too

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but people always sleep on him :wesobi:

 

[DHOH]

Lee is a genius too

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but people always sleep on him :wesobi:

No we don't sleep on him.. He's a genius in a unconventional way.

 

[Amenotejikara]

Not Sasuke. It was pretty clear that Itachi overshadowed him. Sasuke was talented as a child but not enough to call him a prodigy. His character was an avenger for a reason.

Boi

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That's because Kakashi knew Minato was trying to create FRS so he tried to make/help Naruto master it.

No, iirc he knew minato was going to complete rasengan that's it. Kakashi was the one who thought of mixing nature releases to rasengan which unintentionally at some point ended up as chidori, wind release was the successor for rasengan.and he didn't just try to help, he literally made naruto follow step by step process. so he gets the inventor and genius credit. All naruto was good for is just having the right body to get it done.

 

[WalksInShadows]

simple explanation: they're powerful and widely disliked/hated, therefore it makes it convenient for the audience to only acknowledge the intellect of characters far weaker and far more liked than them.

Madara was't really a genius though he was just blessed with exceptionally strong chakra even for transmigrant standards. Sasuke was more of a prodigy than a genius, the likes of Itachi and Neji were ahead of him in terms of rational thinking.


What made Sasuke special was his ridiculous talent, his skill in ninjutsu and fighting was at a level that even Hagoromo couldn't believe what he was seeing.


There's a difference between having prodigious skill and being a genius, Madara and Sasuke were more prodigies than genius.

Butsuma Senju: "He appears to be a born shinobi genius."

Apparently, learning Suna's puppet jutsu from a cave, constructing a decades-long plan, putting ppl in place to play their part in that plan w/o them knowing, and being able to construct backup plans on the fly doesn't qualify somebody as being a genius around here

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[Styles]

Sasuke wasn't a genius though, he was a prodigy, it's not the same thing. When he countered Itachi's genjutsu it was because of his talent, when he mastered Lee's taijutsu it was because of talent, when he invented Kirin it was because of talent.

Geniuses are the likes of Shikamaru, Itachi and Minato, they have prodigious skill but their intellect is what stands out the most. When you look at their fighting style you can tell they rely mostly on their ability to analyze the opponent, when you look at Sasuke he relies less on rational thinking and more on his prodigious talent, like Madara.

Clearly haven't seen pre MS Sasuke or Rinnegan Sasuke vs Madara.

 

[DHOH]

Clearly haven't seen pre MS Sasuke or Rinnegan Sasuke vs Madara.

Or adult Sasuke

 

[Styles]

Boi

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No, iirc he knew minato was going to complete rasengan that's it. Kakashi was the one who thought of mixing nature releases to rasengan which unintentionally at some point ended up as chidori, wind release was the successor for rasengan.and he didn't just try to help, he literally made naruto follow step by step process. so he gets the inventor and genius credit. All naruto was good for is just having the right body to get it done.

Nah iirc he told Naruto Minato tried it and failed and that he failed to add Chidori to it. The steps he took with Naruto was just so he could learn and master his chakra nature(by cutting the waterfall and leaf etc) all he(Kakashi) really thought up was Naruto learning how to master kage bunshins and use it to his advantage to gain intel.

Or adult Sasuke

True.

 

[SenseiSama]

Nah iirc he told Naruto Minato tried it and failed and that he failed to add Chidori to it. The steps he took with Naruto was just so he could learn and master his chakra nature(by cutting the waterfall and leaf etc) all he(Kakashi) really thought up was Naruto learning how to master kage bunshins and use it to his advantage to gain intel.

True.

See the scan you just posted is what I'm saying, you're confusing Sasuke's TALENT with his intellect. Gai's statement is referring to his talent with jutsu not his intelligence. A genius prodigy is Itachi, a prodigy with unrivalled TALENT is Sasuke.


And I never said Sasuke wasn't smart, but calling him a genius is wrong when his IQ pales in comparison to Itachi's.

Being an Uchiha with high brain power should automatically make the person the best at using genjutsu, which wasn't the case with Sasuke. He could counter any genjutsu because of his eye power, which again is talent, but he never displayed the ability to use Sharingan so efficiently like a genius would do.

 

[DHOH]

See the scan you just posted is what I'm saying, you're confusing Sasuke's TALENT with his intellect. Gai's statement is referring to his talent with jutsu not his intelligence. A genius prodigy is Itachi, a prodigy with unrivalled TALENT is Sasuke.


And I never said Sasuke wasn't smart, but calling him a genius is wrong when his IQ pales in comparison to Itachi's.

Being an Uchiha with high brain power should automatically make the person the best at using genjutsu, which wasn't the case with Sasuke. He could counter any genjutsu because of his eye power, which again is talent, but he never displayed the ability to use Sharingan so efficiently like a genius would do.

Sometimes I don't know if your serious or not..
Just because Sasuke isn't on Itachi's intellectual level doesn't mean he's not a genius. Are all Kages on the same level?

Genjutsu?? Sasuke has some of the best genjutsu feats in the Manga.. Dedria, Danzou, the bijuu.

The sharingan is a tool.. only the user makes it special.

 

[HyuugaHeir]

Boi

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No, iirc he knew minato was going to complete rasengan that's it. Kakashi was the one who thought of mixing nature releases to rasengan which unintentionally at some point ended up as chidori, wind release was the successor for rasengan.and he didn't just try to help, he literally made naruto follow step by step process. so he gets the inventor and genius credit. All naruto was good for is just having the right body to get it done.

I get it. Havent you seen my series of posts? god

 

[Styles]

See the scan you just posted is what I'm saying, you're confusing Sasuke's TALENT with his intellect. Gai's statement is referring to his talent with jutsu not his intelligence. A genius prodigy is Itachi, a prodigy with unrivalled TALENT is Sasuke.


And I never said Sasuke wasn't smart, but calling him a genius is wrong when his IQ pales in comparison to Itachi's.

Being an Uchiha with high brain power should automatically make the person the best at using genjutsu, which wasn't the case with Sasuke. He could counter any genjutsu because of his eye power, which again is talent, but he never displayed the ability to use Sharingan so efficiently like a genius would do.

What scan did i post? Also that isn't due to talent. You can't even confuse the two.

Nah Sasuke was called a genius and a prodigy in many instances. Just because Itachi is one of a kind shouldn't downplay anyone especially when half the people in Naruto pale in comparison to him.

No bro Sharingan is a tool that's only as strong as the user.

 

[HyuugaHeir]

I guess it's because prodigy and genius and stuff like that have no meaning in Naruto since dang near everyone became one.(Lee)

Yep that is why in one of my posts, I said Naruto And Sasuke along with Hashi and Maddy are a thing of their own

Sasuke was labeled as a genius and praised by Madara, Itachi, Naruto, Kakashi, Minato, Tobirama and Orchimaru.
Madara is called a prodigy at the age of ten.. Some how you left both characters off your list.. That's exactly why I created this thread. They gets no respect for being intelligent when it was shown through out the manga.

Of course, Madara and Sasuke can be labelled as such bec they are. Pardon me if I were not able to address Op.
They have quite the intelligence, I agree.

 

[XY iNVeRSe]

madara was able to get dna and fake his death going against the goat of his time

nuff said

 

[Styles]

Yep that is why in one of my posts, I said Naruto And Sasuke along with Hashi and Maddy are a thing of their own



Of course, Madara and Sasuke can be labelled as such bec they are. Pardon me if I were not able to address Op.
They have quite the intelligence, I agree.

Yea that's why imo you have to make it more specific.

 

[HyuugaHeir]

I guess it's because prodigy and genius and stuff like that have no meaning in Naruto since dang near everyone became one.(Lee)

Yea that's why imo you have to make it more specific.

Noted. Noted