Preta Path > Kamui, Space time barrier

[BlacLord™]

So what ? at least my theory is backed up with manga scans and databook scans.

Haters goona hate



Hahah, so you actually want me to believe that it is remotely controlled over distance with not chakra present in Kamui itself...

Sorry but it doesn't make sense. The barrier need chakra and Kamui uses Space time barrier, this is clear as day that chakra absorbed from space barrier = end of Kamui.

Kishi's statement through manga/databook > Your common sense.

Actually blowing fire out of your mouth or some black hole appearing from nowhere is according to you common fact maybe ?

Please it is Kishi's fictional world where he can changes rules he applied to his universe when he only wants.

So far Databook/Manga support me more then you, so Databook/Manga > You

Sorry but I am not afraid of you, please try again

Waltz's explanation is clearer, and God knows what you're rambling on about here.

It's common sense applied by Kishimoto and reaffirmed by the audience.

 

[Lamb]

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Kamui itself is physical, it's not the same as Jikukan Kekkei, which is closer to a Fuinjutsu.

I never thought I'd need to explain this to anyone as this has been obvious to most since Day 1:

There are two distinct types of ninjutsu.

One is chakra based (e.g. Rasengan, Katon etc) and the other is chakra controlled/maintained (Kamui, Summons etc)

In other words, the former is composed of chakra and the latter is activated and maintained by chakra but the objects themselves are "physical", for the lack of a better word.

You must be registered for see images

This is common sense, and common sense > Your opinion.

Where did you get this two distinct types of jutsu from? The only thing that Kamui and Kuchiyose have in common is being in the s/t category. Kamui works more like Amaterasu, both are the dojutsu, and both need to build up and focus chakra to a target.

 

[SharinganisOP]

1. It is very much possible for someone under the influence of the preta path to mold chakra as demonstrated by Naruto when he created senjutsu chakra while being held onto by the preta path pein.

2. I don't believe preta path would have an effect on kamui directly. I view kamui as a swirling dimensional transference fissure that is opened by Obito's eye and isn't actually consisted of chakra its self. Obito/Kakashi's eye just keep the fissure open with the chakra in their eye. If a rinnegan user used Preta path on the body of Obito or Kakashi to the point where they can no longer maintain said fissure, then the fissure would go away. This would be an indirect way to get rid of kamui, since it doesn't effect kamui itself, but rather effects the users ability to maintain kamui. But considering Kamui can be used at extremely quick speeds, preta path likely doesn't have enough time to activate (unless it is already active) in order to stop kamui (especially since you would need to be touching the person to do so).

 

[KCMNaruto]

Not hating at all.

Just stating that you lose credibility when trying to impose your opinion/theory upon people as if it is an undeniable fact.

Ok, I get it. However I have something to back up my statement so it is not just pure assumption.

Yes I agree. Preta Path can indeed counter Kamui. Good theory, hope more people will start realizing it.

Thanks man, I know but Uchiha fanboys will do everything to discredit it and deny truth while insulting me or something.

Waltz's explanation is clearer, and God knows what you're rambling on about here.

It's common sense applied by Kishimoto and reaffirmed by the audience.

^^ No, it is just your pure assumption forced on people by other Uchiha memebers making everyone unable to think themselves and pulling own conclusion but keeping listen to other "More knowledgeable" or smartass people.

Now Kishimoto didn't say Kamui > Preta Path, besides Databook and Manga scans lean more towards my statement.

You can keep acting smart but it doesn't impress me.

Bring me manga scans proving me wrong... I am waiting

1. It is very much possible for someone under the influence of the preta path to mold chakra as demonstrated by Naruto when he created senjutsu chakra while being held onto by the preta path pein.

2. I don't believe preta path would have an effect on kamui directly. I view kamui as a swirling dimensional transference fissure that is opened by Obito's eye and isn't actually consisted of chakra its self. Obito/Kakashi's eye just keep the fissure open with the chakra in their eye. If a rinnegan user used Preta path on the body of Obito or Kakashi to the point where they can no longer maintain said fissure, then the fissure would go away. This would be an indirect way to get rid of kamui, since it doesn't effect kamui itself, but rather effects the users ability to maintain kamui. But considering Kamui can be used at extremely quick speeds, preta path likely doesn't have enough time to activate (unless it is already active) in order to stop kamui (especially since you would need to be touching the person to do so).

Ok, first point you may be right... although Preta Path was able to drain him instead throwing him out of Sage mode... he could not only deal with nature chakra brought into his body by absorbing Naruto gathering nature energy.

Secon point you brought is valid as well... but the black hole itself isn't made of chakra. However entire Space time barrier around the target is..., the black hole is the center of the barrier where everything within range of barrier get drawn inside.

Here, look how Kamui works:

Detailed explanation how the long-range Kamui technique really works :

Spoiler

1) Chakra build up for Kamui technique is finished and technique get started:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

2) Space barrier is enveloped around the target with centre of barrier being certain point of space at which the Kamui user focus/lock his eyes on. The Centre of barrier opens black hole in space towards which everything around will drawn into:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

3) Space barrier closes towards it's center drawning everything towards centre of the barrier where black hole is opened:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

^^ Deidara further confirms that Space barrier envelopes around his hand drawn everything towards centre of this barrier which is black hole opened in space.

4) The barrier finally closes to it's center completly drawn target into that black hole as it closes just moment later and fade away:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

5) Kakashi's words further prove that Space barrier is put around the target for it being unable to escape while struggling. Exactly as Third databook states as well:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

6) Again barrier around Space was put up for limited area which drawn target towards it's center closing after it is done:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[Black Wolf]

Where did you get this two distinct types of jutsu from?

It makes sense, if you think about it. I'll use Suitons as an example.

Take the Suitons that Zabuza and Kakashi used in Part I when they first fought. Those involved using their chakra to control an existing water source. If Preta Path is used there, the natural water isn't just going to disappear. The water dragons are not chakra based; the fighters' chakra was merely being used as a remote control to move the water around.

Now lets take the Suitons that people spit out of their mouths, say the one that Darui used against Sasuke or the one Kakashi used against Kakuzu's Katon/Futon combo. That one is 100% chakra based - it isn't simply using their chakra to control natural water, but the attack itself is composed of chakra. That type of attack would be absorbed by Preta path.

 

[chintu234]

You must be registered for see images

Read the highlighted
and this is from the 3rd databook

it clearly says this tech cannot be countered and there is no defence against it as it distorts the space around the target
there is no way preta path will be able to absorb it as it is too quick for preta path to absorb it

 

[wael reda]

no
here,kakashi said that he had never heard of someone that was able to stop kamuii
he said that although he knew that obito had rinningan

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

kakashi said that although he knew about all rinningan's techs

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

that proof rinningan can't counter kamui

 

[BlacLord™]

Ok, I get it. However I have something to back up my statement so it is not just pure assumption.



Thanks man, I know but Uchiha fanboys will do everything to discredit it and deny truth while insulting me or something.



^^ No, it is just your pure assumption forced on people by other Uchiha memebers making everyone unable to think themselves and pulling own conclusion but keeping listen to other "More knowledgeable" or smartass people.

Now Kishimoto didn't say Kamui > Preta Path, besides Databook and Manga scans lean more towards my statement.

You can keep acting smart but it doesn't impress me.

Bring me manga scans proving me wrong... I am waiting

Uchiha members?

Now Kishimoto didn't say Preta Path > Kamui so don't pull that one.

I already did bring you a scan of something which contains chakra but cannot be absorbed, because of it's physical properties.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[KCMNaruto]

You must be registered for see images

Read the highlighted
and this is from the 3rd databook

it clearly says this tech cannot be countered and there is no defence against it as it distorts the space around the target
there is no way preta path will be able to absorb it as it is too quick for preta path to absorb it

Well But Preta Path is not defence in litteral meaning of it. It also does not counter Kamui it just drain chakra needed for Kamui to be maintained and that is difference. The only Bolded part you brought is true... but that only if you believe Preta Path JUST ABSORB CHAKRA as I thought earlier.

Now I think it not just absorb your chakra but ALSO REVERSE CHAKRA FLOW IN CHAKRA BASED ATTACK or in body's of opponent make it almost impossible to mold your chakra.

no
here,kakashi said that he had never heard of someone that was able to stop kamuii
he said that although he knew that obito had rinningan

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

kakashi said that although he knew about all rinningan's techs

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

that proof rinningan can't counter kamui

It does not prove anything as Kakashi never tried to use Kamui on Preta Path.
Obito also did not use Preta Path as well... so it does not hold any meaning nor importance.

Uchiha members?

Now Kishimoto didn't say Preta Path > Kamui so don't pull that one.

I already did bring you a scan of something which contains chakra but cannot be absorbed, because of it's physical properties.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Of course he didn't , but the manga facts and databook scans more lean towards Preta Path > Kamui then otherwise.

Well but it was dispersed as Naruto clone was forced to cancel transformation technique and turns back into clone, so yes it was effective. Now if Preta Path would catch him then he would be drained of chakra, simple as that.

 

[Lamb]

Waltz's explanation is clearer, and God knows what you're rambling on about here.

It's common sense applied by Kishimoto and reaffirmed by the audience.

Common sense dictates that in order to open a portal, a very large energy source is required and in order for that portal to open those energies must have contact with each other to create a reaction. Unless you are saying that Kamui can be casted without energy or chakra build up on it's suction point which according to common sense does not make sense.

 

[SharinganisOP]

You must be registered for see images

Read the highlighted
and this is from the 3rd databook

it clearly says this tech cannot be countered and there is no defence against it as it distorts the space around the target
there is no way preta path will be able to absorb it as it is too quick for preta path to absorb it

Well, I don't want to be a negative nancy and say that there is defense against kamui, but there is. Obito was able to stop Kakashi's kamui several times. We have also seen kamui stopped when another space time jutsu interferes with the location of the target. But with the second time its more like kamui missed, only Obito has truly stopped kamui.

 

[The Necromancer]

Thanks but I know that fact for long time actually. The new feat could be that Preta Path reverse direction of your chakra flow inside your body make you unable to mold more chakra. Same with reverse direction of chakra flow inside techniques used on Preta Path... techniques get cancelend right away and rendered useless.

Reversing the flow in your own body, not the body of the opponent. You're reading it backwards. It swirls preta path's own body chakra to nullify and absorb the chakra touching him at the time, not to reverse the swirl of the opponent.

 

[BlacLord™]

Common sense dictates that in order to open a portal, a very large energy source is required and in order for that portal to open those energies must have contact with each other to create a reaction. Unless you are saying that Kamui can be casted without energy or chakra build up on it's suction point which according to common sense does not make sense.

Kamui is activated and fueled by chakra but like summons, isn't composed of chakra itself.

 

[Lamb]

It makes sense, if you think about it. I'll use Suitons as an example.

Take the Suitons that Zabuza and Kakashi used in Part I when they first fought. Those involved using their chakra to control an existing water source. If Preta Path is used there, the natural water isn't just going to disappear. The water dragons are not chakra based; the fighters' chakra was merely being used as a remote control to move the water around.

Now lets take the Suitons that people spit out of their mouths, say the one that Darui used against Sasuke or the one Kakashi used against Kakuzu's Katon/Futon combo. That one is 100% chakra based - it isn't simply using their chakra to control natural water, but the attack itself is composed of chakra. That type of attack would be absorbed by Preta path.

Yeah but those techniques use existing sources to work. Kamui does not exist on the physical plane, it is created through a rip hole. And how do shinobis create something out of nothing? Through chakra that is.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Reversing the flow in your own body, not the body of the opponent. You're reading it backwards. It swirls preta path's own body chakra to nullify and absorb the chakra touching him at the time, not to reverse the swirl of the opponent.

Well but this is your interpretation, but it could not still explain why the attacks get renedered useless in that case.

My explanation could explain that part, that why I am more convinced towards my theory

Kamui is activated and fueled by chakra but like summons, isn't composed of chakra itself.

This can be true... but for now it is pure assumption as mine. However Barrier stuff I am constantly reffering to make more sense as barrier is made of chakra to be maintained so Space barrier of Kamui should not be exception until Kishi says otherwise

 

[BlacLord™]

Yeah but those techniques use existing sources to work. Kamui does not exist on the physical plane, it is created through a rip hole. And how do shinobis create something out of nothing? Through chakra that is.

But that's the thing, in a sense it does exist.

The user is using chakra to warp the already present time and space into a barrier.

 

[Lamb]

Wait it is activated with chakra and fueled by chakra but it is not composed of chakra? Then what is it then? You do not make sense. As I said before, summoning jutsu and kamui's only common trait being categorized in s/t jutsu. Summons exist in physical plane, dimension holes does not.

 

[Minator93]

Sorry but NO.

You can't absorb "Jikukan Ninjutsu or Jikukan Kekkei." Heck I remember people saying Preta > Mokuton and in the manga Hashirama's Wooden Dragon completely rendered Preta Useless U_U

Preta also can't absorb the Hiraishin marking as well since it never disappears U_U

1. Mokuton > Preta
2. Jikukan Ninjutsu, Jikukan Kekkei, Hiraishin Marking > Preta
3. Senjutsu > Preta
4. Kamui >> Preta
5. Physical attack, weapons > Preta
6. Genjutsu > Preta

 

[Lamb]

I lol at these replies, so let's all agree that Kamui>sage of six paths. The rinnegan is no match to it's dilluted shoot off, because according to logic that makes sense. Sigh.

 

[Minator93]

I lol at these replies, so let's all agree that Kamui>sage of six paths. The rinnegan is no match to it's dilluted shoot off, because according to logic that makes sense. Sigh.

You have no idea about Kamui's Real Potential. Its called the God's Authority

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Kamui is even above the Juubi, Gedo Mazo! Sage of the sixth paths would fall to Kamui