[POLL] So does this mean Kabuto>Obito?

[Lightbringer]

1) My point is simple, you said that susanoo arrow = RS in speed, if obito can evade RS....well then he can evade susanoo arrow going by your logic.

2) Him losing the connection plays no part in the fact that he evaded the RS. If he can evade RS with kamui alone while stuck in 1 position then he can do the same for a susanoo arrow (again, going by your logic). Only this time it will be fair as he wont be stuck to the juubi.

3) Doesnt matter, kamui are his reflexes. He uses kamui to evade attacks. Its doesnt matter if its automatic or if its of his own will, the point is that he's fast enough to evade quick attacks, without even having to sense or look at them. If anything you just proved that kamui is even more OP as it also has the ability to dodge for obito.

but we're not talking about Obito's reflexes, we're talking about Kabuto's

if Kabuto's reflexes are as good or better than Obito's then he won't be caught by Kamui

If Obito faced himself, would he be caught by kamui? I doubt it

 

[Lightbringer]

Yes...but if he taught it to him once the Rinnegan is acquired he can use them, no? Also...it's never been stated that the rules of the sharingan apply to the Rinnegan, has it? That's just an assumption... Also, he said I will teach you them...not I will tell you about them. :NO: Of course you know I mean no disrespect:yayy: Also, can Susanoo be taught, or is that just what you used to exemplify your point? Nonetheless...susanoo can only be awakened, no? I'm just asking...but I tend not to make assumptions, or adhere to them. They make an ASS out of U and ME. :yayy: I suppose we can believe what it is we choose to, again you know I mean no disrespect. :yayy::flowers

well all I know is that there is more evidence of Obito not possessing them than the latter since they were never shown

shinra tensei, bansho tennin, preta path, animal path, asura path could have turned the tied of all of Obito's battles

but he didn't even use them once

 

[stoikis]

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Kabuto was scared of obito and obito only need to touch kabuto and its over.

 

[Lightbringer]

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Kabuto was scared of obito and obito only need to touch kabuto and its over.

same logic could apply to Obito being scared of Itachi


ofcourse Kabuto was worried, but that doesn't mean he's weaker

Obito was worried when Kabut used edo tensei and especially showed him Madara......so I don't see how that matters

 

[Draphsin]

but we're not talking about Obito's reflexes, we're talking about Kabuto's

if Kabuto's reflexes are as good or better than Obito's then he won't be caught by Kamui

If Obito faced himself, would he be caught by kamui? I doubt it

Kabuto's reflexes are worse than obito's. I gave you proof that kamui can warp faster than naruto or karin can even react properly.

Top this with the fact that obito can move at the speed of light & kabuto can not avoid his speed. You're basically saying that kabuto > speed of light, which is impossible.

Not even minato was fast enough to evade kamui without FTG (which is faster than light, coincidentally enough). If minato had no means of teleportation then he would be trapped. Minato has the best reflexes in the manga, as shown when he dodged A effortlessly (was even able to move with A being centimeters from his face).

If minato cant even evade kamui without the aid of his s/t then tell me how kabuto plans to do it?


EDIT: For your last point, yes obito can kamui himself. Because obito 1 would be able to blitz obito 2 & by the time contact was made then its over for 2.

It takes longer to warp himself than it does for others, obito 2 would be warped away before he can warp himself away.

 

[RikudouMadara]

well all I know is that there is more evidence of Obito not possessing them than the latter since they were never shown

shinra tensei, bansho tennin, preta path, animal path, asura path could have turned the tied of all of Obito's battles

but he didn't even use them once

Stop lying...:yayy: you know a lot of Naruto. It's why I like to see your views on things...you always keep me entertained. Who knows what Obito can do...besides the horse. I'd use him for hastilude though...don't mind my idiotic ramblings. I wished upon a star that Obito doesn't die..I really like his character.:yayy:XD:_@::bye:

 

[Lightbringer]

Kabuto's reflexes are worse than obito's. I gave you proof that kamui can warp faster than naruto or karin can even react properly.

Top this with the fact that obito can move at the speed of light & kabuto can not avoid his speed. You're basically saying that kabuto > speed of light, which is impossible.

Not even minato was fast enough to evade kamui without FTG (which is faster than light, coincidentally enough). If minato had no means of teleportation then he would be trapped. Minato has the best reflexes in the manga, as shown when he dodged A effortlessly (was even able to move with A being centimeters from his face).

If minato cant even evade kamui without the aid of his s/t then tell me how kabuto plans to do it?

By using chakra feet to stick to the ground and using Kimmaro's bone tech to stick himself on the ground to resist the pull of kamui


no one's ever tried that before against kamui

also Minato was focused on the kyuubi when Obito sneak attacked, which when he was almost caught by kamui

after that, Minato didn't fall prey to it at all because he was now focused on Obito and not the kyuubi


if Kabuto is focusing on Obito, he'll be able to react.

 

[Waltz]

the wormholes effect happens at very close range

I'm saying Kabuto would react to Obito getting close

even still, there are ways to counter Kamui "hypothetically"

for example.....what if Hashirama uses mokuton to connect himself with the ground(I mean like glueing his feat to the ground with mokuton roots or something)?

That way Obito wouldn't be able to suck him in because the force of the wormhole would not be strong enough to suck him in.

every shinobi possess the ability to use chakra to stick the surface like a spider, but I'm pretty sure no one ever thought of using that when they're getting sucked in by Obito.

so if they use the chakra feat the glue themselves down(same way they walk on trees) would Obito have enough force to pull them in kamui?

not only that but Kabuto has the DNA of Kimmimaro which he can use the bones to create more resistance from the pull of kamui

Just as torune, Kabuto wouldn't be able to anticipate Obito and an offensive or defensive reaction would not only be done too late as it requires time for his body to move but still result in him being warped. What knowledge does Kabuto have on the workings of kamui?

Pertaining to Hashirama grounding himself with Mokuton; There is force stronger than the force of gravity and it still wouldn't work, the root would be severed. It's no different to saying that an astronaut connected to a rope could climb out of the singularity point of a black hole. Come on bro, the rope/Hashirama mokuton/Kimmimaro's bones/weak chakra connections to the ground are bonds which would all be broken from the gravitational force. ​

 

[Lightbringer]

Stop lying...:yayy: you know a lot of Naruto. It's why I like to see your views on things...you always keep me entertained. Who knows what Obito can do...besides the horse. I'd use him for hastilude though...don't mind my idiotic ramblings. I wished upon a star that Obito doesn't die..I really like his character.:yayy:XD:_@::bye:

Obito is my second favorite character; obviously I'd like him to be the second most powerful villain next to Madara

but recent evidence has lead me to doubt that

 

[Lightbringer]

Just as torune, Kabuto wouldn't be able to anticipate Obito and an offensive or defensive reaction would not only be done too late as it requires time for his body to move but still result in him being warped. What knowledge does Kabuto have on the workings of kamui?

Pertaining to Hashirama grounding himself with Mokuton; There is force stronger than the force of gravity and it still wouldn't work, the root would be severed. It's no different to saying that an astronaut connected to a rope could climb out of the singularity point of a black hole. Come on bro, the rope/Hashirama mokuton/Kimmimaro's bones/weak chakra connections to the ground are bonds which would all be broken from the gravitational force. ​

kamui's pull is no where near as strong as any sort of black whole

it has never pulled in rocks, pieces of the earth, brick; it didn't rip the environment apart

if kamui was anywhere close to the force of a black hole, then anyone being pulled into it would die instantly

Torune was busy taking off his shirt and prepping his tech when Obito came up from behind

that's not the same as someone being fully prepared and fully focused at the start of battle

 

[Waltz]

kamui's pull is no where near as strong as any sort of black whole

it has never pulled in rocks, pieces of the earth, brick; it didn't rip the environment apart

Torune was busy taking off his shirt and prepping his tech when Obito came up from behind

that's not the same as someone being fully prepared and fully focused at the start of battle

@Bold: What do you think is hypothesized to be the entry point of a wormhole? [Kamui] xd

@Red: Didn't say Kamui was a black hole, I said it acts as a wormhole to the other Dimension. I was referring to the fact that the gravitational force towards the center [point of entry] is equal to that of a black hole, hence why it can only be counterd by another curvature in space and time [Space time ninjutsu] such as FTG or Kamui itself.


@Blue: Not ture. Torune's shirt was already off and his jutsu prepared.

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​

 

[Draphsin]

By using chakra feet to stick to the ground and using Kimmaro's bone tech to stick himself on the ground to resist the pull of kamui

no one's ever tried that before against kamui

Kamui distorts space & time, nothing can pin the person to the physical world while kamui is taking place, thats like saying you can hang on to the ground if you were being sucked in by a wormhole, this is not true.

Also, if it was simply a matter of holding on & obito couldnt selectively pull someone from the ground then how do you explain obito being able to pull sasuke from the jinton? If obito tried to warp sasuke using this logic then would obito not warp the jutsu too? Its the same thing as what you're trying to imply. "Holding on" or "sticking yourself" to the ground when obito can selectively kamui what/whoever he wants isnt going to work.

also Minato was focused on the kyuubi when Obito sneak attacked, which when he was almost caught by kamui

after that, Minato didn't fall prey to it at all because he was now focused on Obito and not the kyuubi

if Kabuto is focusing on Obito, he'll be able to react.

Minato was only able to evade obito thanks to FTG, & it wasnt only when he was focused on kurama either. Obito also caught minato in

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, the fastest man still got caught by obito. Minato's reflexes are so good that he was able to throw his kunai up in the air as A was attacking, & now the man with these same reflexes is able to casually get caught by obito's kamui "attack", due to intangibility & his reflexes.

FTG saved minato during that fight, kabuto has no such jutsu that can counter obito's speed, therefore he will get warped.

 

[RikudouMadara]

Obito is my second favorite character; obviously I'd like him to be the second most powerful villain next to Madara

but recent evidence has lead me to doubt that

He's my third fav, but as far as hierarchy of strength and power. I try to waste no energy on it as much as possible. Only Kishi knows who can defeat who. I'm just here for the ride, however bumpy it may be. _@:

 

[Lightbringer]

@Bold: What do you think is hypothesized to be the entry point of a wormhole? [Kamui] xd

@Red: Didn't say Kamui was a black hole, I said it acts as a wormhole to the other Dimension. I was referring to the fact that the gravitational force towards the center [point of entry] is equal to that of a black hole, hence why it can only be counterd by another curvature in space and time [Space time ninjutsu] such as FTG or Kamui itself.


@Blue: Not ture. Torune's shirt was already off and his jutsu prepared.

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​

Torune was sucked in about 2 seconds after he took off his shirt....that's hardly a difference

again the force of the kamui is not equal a black hole....or at least not to the degree you might be thinking about

sure it pulls things to the center like a black hole, but that doesn't mean the force of the pull is strong enough to pull everything in

it was shown that kamui takes a few seconds suck someone in fully, which means there's still resistance such as the gravity of the earth opposing the force of the kamui

however, when Obito shoots things out of the dimension it looks almost insant as opposed to him sucking things in, especially himself


also even if Kabuto was caught in kamui, why do people assume the battle is over? Is kabuto going to starve? He did have senju DNA in his possession from yamato and also from the experiments of orochimaru

not only that but can't Kabuto use reverse summoning?

he was a student of the Ryūchi Cave; he could get someone to summon him back

 

[Lightbringer]

Kamui distorts space & time, nothing can pin the person to the physical world while kamui is taking place, thats like saying you can hang on to the ground if you were being sucked in by a wormhole, this is not true.

Also, if it was simply a matter of holding on & obito couldnt selectively pull someone from the ground then how do you explain obito being able to pull sasuke from the jinton? If obito tried to warp sasuke using this logic then would obito not warp the jutsu too? Its the same thing as what you're trying to imply. "Holding on" or "sticking yourself" to the ground when obito can selectively kamui what/whoever he wants isnt going to work.



Minato was only able to evade obito thanks to FTG, & it wasnt only when he was focused on kurama either. Obito also caught minato in

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, the fastest man still got caught by obito. Minato's reflexes are so good that he was able to throw his kunai up in the air as A was attacking, & now the man with these same reflexes is able to casually get caught by obito's kamui "attack", due to intangibility & his reflexes.

FTG saved minato during that fight, kabuto has no such jutsu that can counter obito's speed, therefore he will get warped.

the wormhole isn't an actual thing, it's just a theory; the black hole is a force that sucks things in with such pressure that it crushes it into oblivion

Obito's kamui is more like vacuum. If kamui was like a black hole, it would have sucked pieces of the earth along with whatever target.

anyways I'm done arguing, it's obviously not going anywhere

 

[Draphsin]

the wormhole isn't an actual thing, it's just a theory; the black hole is a force that sucks things in with such pressure that it crushes it into oblivion

Obito's kamui is more like vacuum. If kamui was like a black hole, it would have sucked pieces of the earth along with whatever target.

anyways I'm done arguing, it's obviously not going anywhere

But obito can selectively warp people & objects.

Well idk why you're so keen on arguing that obito weaker than he actually is, he hasn't decreased in position. & I never assumed that obito had all the rinnegan techs, because that would be ridiculous & overpowered. I've always considered obito top 3 merely with what he's shown us.

 

[Lightbringer]

But obito can selectively warp people & objects.

Well idk why you're so keen on arguing that obito weaker than he actually is, he hasn't decreased in position. & I never assumed that obito had all the rinnegan techs, because that would be ridiculous & overpowered. I've always considered obito top 3 merely with what he's shown us.

I'm not saying he's weak, just not as strong as I thought he was

he's still OP

but the only merit to his ability is Kamui

it's the same dilemma with Shisui's KA where people believe they're invincible simply because there hasn't really been a counter to it.

but then you can argue that Obito and Shisui>SO6P Madara and Hashirama which is obviously not plausible to the plot

zetsu said Itachi is invincible because he had a shield that can block everything and a sword that seals anything; but is he really invincible? probably not and there's probably flaws in those items; but we just haven't seen it yet.


like that saying goes, the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence

except when it comes to Obito's jutsu which we've seen all he's capable of

 

[Totsuka gg Amaterasu gg]

well Kakashi >>>>> Kabuto
and it took Kakashi a whole chapter to beat him, so it's safe to say someone who isn't even close to Kakashi's level will obviously lose to Obito
ABC logic at it's best

 

[Blaze Release]

I for one do not take into consideration edo tensei therefore neither made #1 or #2 to begin with.

Sm kabuto vs obito with gedo mazo containing the bijuu's

That is what i look at.

Obito with gedo mazo is slightly stronger.

However people need to give this mokuton a rest, its always bleak when people cling onto mokuton for obito.
So far the only mokuton feats that obito has shown that will prevail against any shinobi deemed 'kage level' has been assisted, either by zetsu or the jubi. Obito's mokuton without being assisted is poor.

I think people think obito can use, mokuton on the level of hashirama and madara when in reality is he behind yamato in feats and hype when it comes to mokuton. Fodder zetsu level mokuton only slightly increases his versatility and if anything that portion has more use when it comes to his sharingan abilities, like izanagi for example rather than increase his overall strength

 

[madarasasuke5]

Kabuto can't hurt obito.