People don't understand Hashiramas power

[Ryuu..]

well it is possible that they both got stronger. there was a good time period between konohas founding and madara and hashiramas fight at VOTE. a year or 2 is more than enough time for a ninja to get stronger. tobi was able to fight perfectly fine with the kyuubi out. minato implied that there was some sort of time limit though but im not sure. but tobi was able to control 5 tailed beast(although he almost lost control of 1) purely with eye power. i feel that madara could fight efficiently with the kyuubi out for a good duration of the fight. the only reason that tobi couldnt fight alongside his beasts is because, he was also controlling the beasts through stakes and the user has to remain stationary to control the paths. if tobi can fight efficiently using only tailed beasts then there is no doubt in my mind that madara can fight efficiently alongside the kyuubi.

Perhaps. But how would he know that only a Bijuu could stand up to his Susanoo? Because that implies his Susanoo fought a Bijuu before. We know bringing out Perfect Susanoo is not a trivial matter to Madara, and that he would only bring it out in an important fight (i.e. VOTE). These are just some of the things which are going through my mind.

In any case, I know that Hashirama is up there with the very best. He could be the strongest, I don't really know what Kishi is planning to reveal next. But I think the idea that he is on his own tier is incorrect.

 

[SymphonyX]

hashirama> edo madara
nuff said

Oh my god, don't start please.

Well to put it bluntly, Hashirama has shown us shit except getting owned by an old man, apart from that we only have hype and nothing more, and when i put him in a fighting situation against many current OP characters with all the Jutsu he has shown us, i see him loosing, Badly.

Hashirama did sht because Oro had complete control over him and had no idea what the **** he was doing. Give Hashi control and he would have solo'ed Hiruzen mid diff. Though I don't know what the outcome would've been when Hiruzen was in his prime.

With what we have only seen its clearly Nagato>Hashirama for now. Unless Kishi reveals Hashirama possed some OP abilities that would actually challenge the Rinnegan.

Have you even read the thread? It's definitely not "clear" that Nagato is more powerful than Hashirama.

I'm not even a Hashi fanboy but he is downplayed too much due to no one seeing what he's capable of other than the fight vs the 3rd Hokage in which he got stomped because Oro is VERY naive, or was in that fight. But either way, you saying Hashi is a god is total bullshit. I can almost guarantee that Edo-Madara is more powerful since he now has Rinnegan and Wood Release along with unlimited chakra and a regeneration ability.

 

[raju22]

Hashirama did sht because Oro had complete control over him and had no idea what the **** he was doing. Give Hashi control and he would have solo'ed Hiruzen mid diff.

That is all the reason that we can not put Hashi in a hypothetical battle against powerful ninja, because we have not seen him fighting at full power, we only have assumptions that he could do this or that but it can not be proved until we see him fight and what kind of Ninjutsu he uses, because i am sure if Madara used his PS in the fight, then there is no way Hasi can block its attack with wood.

 

[TheSages456]

Perhaps. But how would he know that only a Bijuu could stand up to his Susanoo? Because that implies his Susanoo fought a Bijuu before. We know bringing out Perfect Susanoo is not a trivial matter to Madara, and that he would only bring it out in an important fight (i.e. VOTE). These are just some of the things which are going through my mind.

In any case, I know that Hashirama is up there with the very best. He could be the strongest, I don't really know what Kishi is planning to reveal next. But I think the idea that he is on his own tier is incorrect.

well you wouldnt really need to fight a bijuu to know how strong it is. madara used the kyuubi in battle so of course he would know how powerful the kyuubi is. madara also looks like he has knowledge of all the other bijuu and the juubi.

 

[SymphonyX]

That is all the reason that we can not put Hashi in a hypothetical battle against powerful ninja, because we have not seen him fighting at full power, we only have assumptions that he could do this or that but it can not be proved until we see him fight and what kind of Ninjutsu he uses, because i am sure if Madara used his PS in the fight, then there is no way Hasi can block its attack with wood.

There is a cut-scene from a Naruto game (Ultimate Ninja Storm Generations I think) that shows some of the fight between Hashi and Madara (though it was kind of downplayed) and Hashi blocks a TBB from Kurama using wood. I'm pretty sure a PS slash and TBB are roughly the same so I wouldn't doubt him being able to beat Madara's PS.

 

[Tartarus]

Hiruzen was very advanced in age and both brothers were Edo zombi with no feeling of pain and unlimited chakra supply, yet they were not able to take him down, and Hiruzen sealed them both successfully.

Show me the fight between Madara and Hashirama What were the circumstances, I bet Madara was not even fighting to kill him as it was made clear in manga that he was fighting to gain his power, Keep that in mind when we put a person against someone in a hypothetical fight then we do not take hype to battle but actual ninjutsu and fighting prowess, in which we have seen nothing from Hashirama.

If i go feat wise then Nagato and Itachi have more then him.

If Hiruzen thought he'd be able to win he wouldn't have used a suicide move. Hashi and Tobi were both mindless AI zombies, and each only used like 2 jutsus, plus Oro was toying with Hiruzen. Nagato and Itachi have more feats than Hiruzen too. Madara himself admits loss to Hashirama, plus Hashirama's powers have been showcased via edo Madara. I'll agree hype is only believable when backed up by feats, and Hashirama has it, but it should never be totally disregarded. Hashirama has been getting hyped since early part 2, and I think that's because kishi wants to hype his power for a reason. If a prideful guy like Madara admits defeat, then I have no reason to not believe it, and so what if he wanted his dna, Madara could just take his dead body.

 

[raju22]

There is a cut-scene from a Naruto game (Ultimate Ninja Storm Generations I think) that shows some of the fight between Hashi and Madara (though it was kind of downplayed) and Hashi blocks a TBB from Kurama using wood. I'm pretty sure a PS slash and TBB are roughly the same so I wouldn't doubt him being able to beat Madara's PS.

But the problem with this scenario is that video game is not canon, if Kishi show us in the manga that how Hashi vs Madara went down then we will be able to see his abilities and decide his power lvl.

If Hiruzen thought he'd be able to win he wouldn't have used a suicide move. Hashi and Tobi were both mindless AI zombies, and each only used like 2 jutsus, plus Oro was toying with Hiruzen. Nagato and Itachi have more feats than Hiruzen too. Madara himself admits loss to Hashirama, plus Hashirama's powers have been showcased via edo Madara. I'll agree hype is only believable when backed up by feats, and Hashirama has it, but it should never be totally disregarded. Hashirama has been getting hyped since early part 2, and I think that's because kishi wants to hype his power for a reason.

But to put him against any powerful charecter and say that he will curb stomp them is not possible,from what jutsu we have seen so far, in a hypothetical battle situation he wont be able to take Itachi down Let alone Edo Madara or Nagato.

 

[blackstar9]

I couldnt agree more . Fanboys think they know more about the manga then kishi!!!! Your quotes were directly from the manga !!! So if they want to debate what kabuto said .They are basically trying to debate kishi!!!!

 

[Ryuu..]

well you wouldnt really need to fight a bijuu to know how strong it is. madara used the kyuubi in battle so of course he would know how powerful the kyuubi is. madara also looks like he has knowledge of all the other bijuu and the juubi.

But consider what I first proposed; that Hashirama making the leap in strength is unreasonable. The manga already said he gained control of the Kyuubi during the fight. Most would think that he simply suppressed it or something. But I quote Orochimaru here, Hashirama was able to "Bend the Bijuu towards his will". It just makes more sense that he controlled the Kyuubi and turned it on Madara. This also accounts for Hashirama's leap in strength. I don't understand why Hashirama would gain control of the Kyuubi and simply leave it lying there. Also consider the language the manga used. It coould've very easily said suppressed, but it chose to say 'control'. Just think about what makes more sense.

 

[Kratos of cruxis]

No just no hashirama is strong and all but a god not close edo madara is only a fraction of so6p and hashirama's power is 1/3 of madara's power so he's no where near a god,and we dont know how hashi beat madara for all we know hashirama could have been his prefect counter or madara could have held back who knows.Lastly we all know the kage hype bar will change and next arc people my say minato>hashi or tobi>hashi they even my say tsunade>hashi so dont jump and say he's a god when plot will make him weaker later on

 

[PainIsGod]

This underestimation to Hashirama makes me wonder, are you reading the Manga i do?

In versus threads with nagato ppl are claiming that nagato beats him and say hashirama is overrated. overrated? really? where is your head people?

those who say that hashirama is overated, just cant understand what kind of power this man had.

• Kabuto said that no one could reach Hashiramas level anymore
• Madara by himself said twice that only Hashirama could stop him
• Dan said, that only Hashirama could stop Madara
• Kabuto called him a fairy tale like the sage of the six paths and everyone agrees with this fact
  
  
  
  

This man was a god, he soloed EMS madara with the complete kyuubi, ppl are dont understand the power of this man but saying hes overrated and a piece of shit like nagato could beat him.

go and find your head people, Hashirama is a god.

if you disagree, counter Madaras own words, counter Kabutos own words who has the most knowledge, counter dans words.

cant believe how much trolls here are.

and do you know why hashirama can do this? because madaras STRONGEST technique, the perfect susanoo, which is more powerful than any rinnegan tech, got owned by hashirama together with kyuubi.

and his mokuton is NOTHING compared to hashiramas, he was the god who used the mokuton and destroyed kurama with the perfect susanoo.

and he had medical skills that are give a shit on tsunades.

never, NEVER call someone like nagato or someone else stronger than hashirama, because NARUTOS AUTHOR called him stronger.

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But you see the thing is he's pretty much all hype you can't call him the strongest considering we haven't seen him in action.

 

[Klubargutan]

1st thing:
Hashirama is WEAK, cos he was made hokage just cos he was able to control tailed beasts(look, he didnt show anything special against Hiruzen), WITH THEM(tailed beasts) he BARELY beat only EMS Madara
2nd thing: Edo Madara= Madara + Hashirama + Nagato + immortality + infinite chakra in ONE PERSON
3rd thing: Dan didnt know that Madara had rinnegan, hashi's powers and his full susanoo, cos anyone who sees it, dies
Kabuto ALSO didn't know Madara's true power.
True story
anyway +rep for your effort in making thread
EDIT: even Hashirama took out Madara's kyuubi and used it against him trololol, and he barely won, many bijuu, kyuubi, hashirama and mito(no evidence for that) against EMS Madara with hard victory, TROLOLOL

 

[Orochimagus]

Hashirama is not even in my top ten favorite chars, but he is definitely the strongest ninja in history. Anyone who argues that their favorite char is stronger than him is a mere fanboy.

Even Madara Uchiha in his current form would not have the maximum chakra CAPACITY his entire Senju bodies has. Madara has limitless chakra, but there is a limit to how much his body can have at any given time, which also limits the full release of his techniques. Look at it as having unlimited level one super moves in a fighting game, while Hashirama can perform level threes without auto-filling his super meter. This is because Madara only has a PORTION of a Senju body.

Minato is powerful, and I respect him for how strong he is without having a Bloodline Limit. He's one of the few true ninja who can become S-Rank without the luck of genes on his side (Orochimaru, Kabuto, Jiraiya, Tsunade, Hiruzen.). Though he is overrated by his fans. He died against Tobi and Kurama, and recognized that he did not have the power to take Tobi down. On the other hand Hashirama constantly beat Madara, and even handled Kurama as well. He sealed the fox without resorting to Reaper Death Seal.

There are so many ways that Hashirama could use his powers...The Wood Clones kept similar chakra levels, and this also allowed the original to meld and hide within the wood. This means catching him in Genjutsu was difficult and even if he was the clones would dispel it. Getting to him physically was near impossible because he'd be able to summon numerous weapons and use the Wood as long-reaching arms to fight from afar; A form of offense and defense. Add to this the ability to contaminate the entire environment with his sleeping pollen...And I got the feeling we are just touching the tip of the woodberg here.

 

[arv993]

But consider what I first proposed; that Hashirama making the leap in strength is unreasonable. The manga already said he gained control of the Kyuubi during the fight. Most would think that he simply suppressed it or something. But I quote Orochimaru here, Hashirama was able to "Bend the Bijuu towards his will". It just makes more sense that he controlled the Kyuubi and turned it on Madara. This also accounts for Hashirama's leap in strength. I don't understand why Hashirama would gain control of the Kyuubi and simply leave it lying there. Also consider the language the manga used. It coould've very easily said suppressed, but it chose to say 'control'. Just think about what makes more sense.

This right here. hashi is probably one of the best ninja of all time but he can't simply trump an ems madara+ kyubi after all the close fights they had. madara and hashi are almost equals like 99% of any battle manga that is how rivals are. I doubt hashi became that much stronger during times of peace. kyubi is likely a double edged sword. Manga hinted towards it,

1.Minato says that madara has a time limit or something along those lines
2. orochimaru's statement about hashi's power to control bijus
3. danzo and tobi back up whatever oro said too

This not coincidence and a flaw on all those occasions.

 

[Orochimagus]

Wood Release has the power to suppress AND control Tailed Beasts. This is why the Heretical Demon Statue seems to be made out of wood. Madara can control the beast's mind with his Sharingan, but Hashirama could control the BODY with his Wood Release. So basically he'd force the body to move against the will of the controlled mind like a pupped with (chain) strings. This is why Hashirama controlled all the Tailed Beasts, and had the ability to disperse them to other countries. He was just that godly.

Speaking of Orochimaru...The Uzumaki's sealing techs were called crude...And Jiraiya called Orochimaru's Five Prong Seal crude...Hmm...

 

[Tartarus]

But to put him against any powerful charecter and say that he will curb stomp them is not possible,from what jutsu we have seen so far, in a hypothetical battle situation he wont be able to take Itachi down Let alone Edo Madara or Nagato.

No offense bro, but I think you're letting Vs thread rules overrule common sense. If Hashi beat Madara, then he can beat Itachi. Just because we haven't seen an entire spreadsheet of his abilities doesn't mean he doesn't have them. Remember kishi makes the rules, not us.

 

[Xerotes]

Hashirama > Nagato > Hiruzen.

If fking Madara the original bad ass himself is saying the only person who can defeat him is Hashirama, even though he is edo'd and in a giant godzilla susanoo while saying it, and you idiots can't believe Hashirama is bad ass, you're just in plain denial and really **** ride some fictional characters.

 

[TobisPawn]

yes kabuto said that there arent ninjas on hashiramas level anymore, not nagato, not tobi, thats it. madaras own words were that only hashirama can stomp him when using his strongest attack, the perfect susanoo.

what kind of reputation has nagato? oooh he was the third sage of the six paths..a piece of shit he was who got his legs burned by hanzo the salamanda and destroyed his own body with gedo mazo. a fool.

never put him with hashirama in one league again, never.

While I agree that Hashirama is a beast, Kabuto's seen nothing of Tobi's power so you can't include him in that statement...

 

[raju22]

No offense bro, but I think you're letting Vs thread rules overrule common sense. If Hashi beat Madara, then he can beat Itachi. Just because we haven't seen an entire spreadsheet of his abilities doesn't mean he doesn't have them. Remember kishi makes the rules, not us.

None taken bro, but we can not go by a>b>c logic here because,

Shikamaru beats Hidan and Hidan beats a fully transformed Yugito (2tails), so does that means Shikamaru>2tails?, it should be because it is common sense, but we both know that's not gonna happen.

same goes for Hashi, you are right in saying that Hashi must have other abilities because from what we have seen so far he can not take Madara out, so he must have some very OP jutsu, but the point here is that we have not seen them yet, so who knows he may be able to counter Madara but that does not mean he can counter a rinnegan user like Nagato,Tobi or Edo Madara or A healthy Itachi who has Susanoo more powerful then Madara (2weapons).

so making a thread saying that Hashi wins a particular battle, when we do not know how well he will do against current opponent is useless.

 

[Strict]

But consider what I first proposed; that Hashirama making the leap in strength is unreasonable. The manga already said he gained control of the Kyuubi during the fight. Most would think that he simply suppressed it or something. But I quote Orochimaru here, Hashirama was able to "Bend the Bijuu towards his will". It just makes more sense that he controlled the Kyuubi and turned it on Madara. This also accounts for Hashirama's leap in strength. I don't understand why Hashirama would gain control of the Kyuubi and simply leave it lying there. Also consider the language the manga used. It coould've very easily said suppressed, but it chose to say 'control'. Just think about what makes more sense.

But we have also to note Madaras words, who said that only Hashirama can stop him. In this case he was certainly referring to his perfect Susanoo Hashirama defeated before. If Hashirama would need Kurama in order to defeat Madara, neither Dan or Madara himself would say that Hashirama can stop him. I think that Hashirama rather paralyzed Kurama for the fight than turned it against Madara. Above, Hashiramas power is reflecting in Madaras words again and again who says that Hashirama had an inane power, a power where even the five current Kage are a gameplay compared to it.