Like I said, Pain can outlast Itachi but he won't be able to break through Susano'o.
@Stampy, "How does a shield (which only covers half to two third of ONE side) can protect a whole body?! "
Where did you read this?
[Discussion] Pain and Itachi
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@Stampy, "How does a shield (which only covers half to two third of ONE side) can protect a whole body?! "
Where did you read this?
i hear you, really i do, but like i said, whos to say that the pains will not get up or recover. they feel no pain or suffer (wheather its mind or body).. and also, who said they dont share hearing???? and like i said b4, jmans gen was a paralyze gen, itachis isnt. not saying that its better then itachi but it is designed to make the body not move. itachi's is one that atks the mind, not the body (or paralyzes the other, everyone we've seen in the tsukiomi was able to move a lil afterwards) so whos to say that they want be affected like a regular human with a circular system (chakra points).. and how do we know if pain sucks against visual genjutsu in the 1st place???? it was never stated and never shown. so "logicaly" we cant say some one want be able to lose to something he's never experienced, right? but one things for sure, nagato can replace any pain that dies, so unless itachi has some sort of super duper move to kill them all and nagato, then the fight is over because nagato is just going to out last him/over power him.
and how long do you think the susanoo would last in a chibaku tensei???? tell the truth, give me the amount of time you think itachi could keep it up b4 he has to trn it off? 5 mins, 10 mins, 15 mins? hell naw! but pein with his chakra will keep it growing and keep it up for aslong as he want (or atleast 5 times longer then itachi can keep his move up)
NewKageism
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who said Pain felt no pain or did not suffer?! You know Pain is just a stage name... Also what the dude was saying to you is they all have the same connected vision (rinnegan)... They all have their ORIGINAL ears, so not connected. Lastly, Itachi's tsukoyomi is not one that paralyse DURING the genjutsu, however it sure paralyses AFTER it happened if not countered. (go look it up after Kakashi was hit by it, and also Zetsu's comment during the sasuke itachi fight when he thought Itachi had won the genjutsu battle.
I have to say this is one of the argument that would make the fight uncertain. If Itachi was to use Tsukoyomi on either set of rinnegan, would it trap Nagato (the real one) in tsukoyomi? If the answer is yes, I sure root for an Itachi win!
And one last point.... I don't know what manga you've been reading dude.... but if Itachi (or anyone for that matters) kills the one Pain body which is able to bring the Pain's body back to the fight, Nagato cannot bring more body's... (If he could then why da hell did he not do it against Naruto?) So quit that "nagato can replace any pain that dies" you make him look bad, and he does not need more credit than he already deserve.
(BTW, I still maintain my opinion that Pain wins, but not for sure depending on how Tsukoyomi affects him)
Just look it up during the sasuke fight. You clearly see the shield, it does not wrap him completely from all sides...
And I am having a great deal of fun on watching you avoid the "Pain"full truth about Chibuka Tensei.
because he can, if he wasnt sick. he didnt against naruto because one naruto was coming and was close, and he was damn near out of chakra, that is a fact! and i already know what hes talking bout with the shared vision (i been got that). now what im saying is, that it doesnt paralyze (that is a fact) its more of a mind cruch type of genjutsu. it is a fact that they do not feel pain, they are all ready dead. QQ when naruto killed all 6 pains did nagato feel there pain, did they feel each others pain? and when jiraiya blinded that one pain, why didnt they just fight with that other pains eyes? my point is we all asume that share everything, which isnt true. and nagato himself isnt affected by any one of them pains and that is a fact. think bout it, if kishi made it that easy for him to be beaten then pien is no were close to being "GOD".. fact is we dont know if tsukiomi would affect him, but yaw assume (not you in paticular) that its over if he's caught with pains 3rd best tech that kills his chakra.. like i said im an itachi fan more then the next guy but realisticly i dont think he would defeat pain at full chakra... and at the end of the day all we are doing speculating
I'm not really interested if the other pains don't feel anything. As I said already, the only thing they are connected through is the eye-vision. All I'm saying is that as far as logic goes, if one pain sees itachi's eyes, then they all see it, including Nagato. So nagato would be the one suffering the genjutsu. And in this genjutsu form he won't have time to move any other pains so you can say that they are paralyzed until itachi finishes his genjutsu. And also Nagato will feel pain. So if the genjutsu works as I described it, I guess Itachi isn't really that helpless.
and like i said b4, im pretty sure it wont work like that. since nagato isnt he original set of oyes im pretty sure he could cancle his puppet tech. and if not he would definately survive it! tsukiomi isnt unstoppable. and it last bout 5 secs but along time for the other person. and i also said, who said that nagato is weak against genjutsu, let alone visual genjutsu (jmans was a spl gen, not a regular one).. genjutsu can be broken out with control over ur chakra right? well there is noboby that isnt a jinjuriki that has more chakra or control over it like nagato. im sure nagato can break out of it but with a lil dificulty, it isnt unbeatable..
So you're saying, because Nagato does not have his original set of eyes he can't be caught up in tsukoyomi ?! As far as I know Kakashi only looked at Itachi with his Sharingan eye, he closed the other one thinking sharingan would allow him to not being caught.
Also I don't see how Nagato could move his other puppets if caught in the genjutsu (which last well under 5seconds, I don't know where you got that info). If caught in the genjutsu then the original "puppet master" sees the tsukoyomi only, and can't move WITHIN that genjutsu, so he can't control other boddies.
I love how you say: "and if not he would definately survive it!"... priceless, please explain how? "tsukiomi isnt unstoppable" as far as non uchiha people or jinchuriki, we are led to believe that it is unstoppable. "who said that nagato is weak against genjutsu" He got caught in a genjutsu without being able to break it out against Jman, I think Itachi's genjutsu would be JUST FINE.
"well there is noboby that isnt a jinjuriki that has more chakra or control over it like nagato." Wrong, the guy known as the Jinchuriki without the beast is Kisame, not Pain. Also, when a jinchuriki breaks loose outta of Tsukoyomi, its because his beast and him both help each other out by disturbing their inner chakra. If there is only one source of chakra, (which is the case with Pain) the same can NOT be done.
No dude he couldn't, show us proof. As far as we know the only way for him to bring those pain bodies back in the fight was with that one guy which was able to summon them. Other than that he has to prepare the bodies in his lab which takes quite a bit of time.
It does paralyse after one took it.
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NEver said such thing, if you reread my post you will see I only talk about them having the same set of eyes, but different ears. You were the one saying they share everything actually.
He is nowhere near being "GOD" that was just a mind thing on his opponent to scare them. Tsukoyomi does not affect the Pain's bodies, it affects the mind, in this case, you said it... Pain's bodies are dead... only one mind to f*ck with there. So it is possible that he eats it.
I think with a well placed tsukoyomi he could actually. Without that he would loose.
again you think that the tsukiomi would do the trick, and if you read back then you would see that you cant compare a sound gen to a visual ge. matter a fact that other dude put up a better agument then you, he actually made sense and showed proof. who said it take a long time to set up the bodies for pain??? no were in the manga was that stated. i have yet to see any character in the whole manga be killed by the tsukiomi (sasukes or itachis), and yea i know he was a good guy blah blah. fact is, it wasnt even stated to kill. so lets say he does catch him in the tsukiomi and nagato gets affected, then what? itachi doesnt no were he is so he cant kill him! then nagato would be better prepared and waqnt look in his eyes and would come back and kill him. either way it goes, tsukiomi or not itachi cant kill nagato if he doesnt no were he is and thats a fact (unless he is a sensor, which he isnt).. p.s. kisame has to steal chakra (yea i already no he has alot already) to get on the level of bijuu. pain has natural chakra on the lv of a bijuu (it wasnt stated but common sense would tell you from what hes done he has more chakra then kisame)
Trying to make me look bad will not make my arguments any less true I suggest you change your strategy. Now in the manga you see that Pain needs bodies to create the 6 guys. For that you need time to reproduce the rinnegan in it, and plug the metal pins in key parts of the body so that he can uses them. Not only does it take time, but also takes dead bodys and material. So now that I gave my argument, I wait for where it is stated that it is an instant process.
Also, Tsukoyomi doesn't kill, it only made Kakashi sleep for a week. which gives the dude plenty of time to find Nagato. And don't tell me he is well hidden in a tree illusion, since we are talking about 1v1 here, he is not excorted / protected by that women (shame... I just DON'T remember her name XD)
With all that, maybe Pain wouldn't stay asleep for a week like Kakashi did but still gives the man time to search key spots. (I am sure, being a some kind of spy to the akatsuki, he would have found out some [not all] secrets.)
Now I don't say Itachi kills Pain for sure, I'm just stating there is that possibility. If you go to my previous posts you will see that I actually defend Pain.
Last thing: WHERE ON EARTH DOES IT SAY A SOUND GENJUTSU BEATS A VISUAL GENJUTSU?! If you go to the Itachi vs Sasuke fight it is CLEARLY stated that Itachi's right eye has Tsukoyomi THE most powerfull genjutsu.
first off i wasnt trying to make u look bad, thats not my style. second off i never said that sound gen was better! show were i said that! i said that the 2 gens were different and have diffderent efts on the other person. didnt say jmans was better, all i said was jmans gen was specificly designed to paralyze i even showed a link for proof for both itachi and jman, if you go back u would see. and i know u were, i was with you defending him. and kakashi is not pain, pains chakra would blow kakashi's out the roof.
Sorry then when you said it couldn't compare I thought you said something else. Now I don't care what the sound genjutsu does stop rubbing it to my face XD I'm telling you tsukoyomi affects the soul it paralyse but AFTERWARDS. Which makes sense, cause a regulard genjutsu allows the user to attack while the other guy figures out what's going on... Tsukoyomi lasts 1 sec... how would it make the slightest sense that it doesn't do anything other than show something?!
Now the issue of the fight clearly depends on how Tsukoyomi affect Pain, I already said that. So if pain is affected I'd say Itachi wins, if Pain is unaffected Itachi looses.
Doesn't all genjutsus paralyze the enemy in some way? Kakashi couldn't move after a glance of Tsukiyomi. Itachi and Sasuke were both standing still during the genjutsu battle. Naruto was not moving when Itachi cast a genjutsu on him during Itachi's encounter with Team Kakashi.
And Stampy, just because it looks like it's only on one side doesn't make it so. Susano'o protects the user, simple as that. I'm not avoiding any facts about Chibaku Tensei. I already stated that Pain can outlast Itachi but cannot break through his Yata's Mirror.
You can keep debating on who will win and no matter what your answer is, you will never know for sure. You will always have people stating Itachi will win and people stating Pain will win and u won't be able to change either side's perspective. Konohamaru beating one of Pain's Path is a grand example of how these "character" vs "character" threads can't be argued.
And Stampy, just because it looks like it's only on one side doesn't make it so. Susano'o protects the user, simple as that. I'm not avoiding any facts about Chibaku Tensei. I already stated that Pain can outlast Itachi but cannot break through his Yata's Mirror.
You can keep debating on who will win and no matter what your answer is, you will never know for sure. You will always have people stating Itachi will win and people stating Pain will win and u won't be able to change either side's perspective. Konohamaru beating one of Pain's Path is a grand example of how these "character" vs "character" threads can't be argued.
AGREED. However, when people claim that pain wins for sure just because he has 6 bodies, I have to defend itachi's side as well. All I'm saying is that this isn't a battle that has a clear winner so let's all agree with this. And if someone actually says that one of them wins 100% they should start reading every argument that was brought up until now.
Nice debate guys! Both sides deserve respect for bringing up so many strong points.
PositiveEmotions
Active member
i agree. had funn, it made me get re-updated with them both (and even jman.lol). we can all agree that the fight would be epic to the fullest!. and we all did our thang with the argument, but it sux that this site has so many noobs (no disrespect to anyone) that is cluesless to the whole manga. maybe our showing links and info will help ppl re read some epic battles to help them better understand characters out side there favs (or there not so favs..)
oFuiinJutsuu
Active member
How epic would this be !!! Total Itachi fan, but I gotta say if there's one thing that Itachi dosen't have it's Stamina... Outlasting all 6 pains would a task too large for Itach to handle. Winner by theoretical thought : Pain xd
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