Orochimaru w/ Samehada vs Killer Bee

[blazekev90]

Are people arguing TBB would reach Orochimaru before he had to "merge and travel"

If this Zetsu Orochimaru, I'd advise to those to look at the Itachi vs Sasuke fight. Zetsu was a few away from Itachi before Kirin hit and was able to avoid attack

Kirin>TBB as far speed, not considering the prep each requires before the initial attack.

 

[Rιver]

I've personally always believed that Orochimaru cannot utilize Zetsu's powers to his own according; many times he could've done so, but never did. Other than dōryoku techniques - putatively - Orochimaru cannot utilize the bodies to the extent he can use their abilities via Fushi Tensei. Presumably he has no abilities of the Zetsu, including sensing, mayfly... etc. I would enjoy reading a hypothetical theory of him being able to utilize Zetsu to some extent...​

 

[Haizaki]

Are people arguing TBB would reach Orochimaru before he had to "merge and travel"

If this Zetsu Orochimaru, I'd advise to those to look at the Itachi vs Sasuke fight. Zetsu was a few away from Itachi before Kirin hit and was able to avoid attack

Kirin>TBB as far speed, not considering the prep each requires before the initial attack.

Uhh, don't know where you got that from

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and was shown to be in the same position afterwards . Clearly you can see the rocks coming towards him there so no he wasn't traveling . He wasn't shown traveling and wasn't caught up in the attack. Not to mention he already merged before Kirin was used.

 

[blazekev90]

I've personally always believed that Orochimaru cannot utilize Zetsu's powers to his own according; many times he could've done so, but never did. Other than dōryoku techniques - putatively - Orochimaru cannot utilize the bodies to the extent he can use their abilities via Fushi Tensei. Presumably he has no abilities of the Zetsu, including sensing, mayfly... etc. I would enjoy reading a hypothetical theory of him being able to utilize Zetsu to some extent...​

I wouldn't say it's hypothetical. Throughout the series we knew Orochimaru wanted a proper host, not only for its youth but to utilize the host abilities.

Many times? Such as? There are moments when a shinobi should've used a technique plenty of times and didn't.

 

[blazekev90]

Uhh, don't know where you got that from

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and was shown to be in the same position afterwards . Clearly you can see the rocks coming towards him there so no he wasn't traveling . He wasn't shown traveling and wasn't caught up in the attack. Not to mention he already merged before Kirin was used.

That doesn't seem to do the case bro

Here:

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Afterwards:

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[Rιver]

I wouldn't say it's hypothetical. Throughout the series we knew Orochimaru wanted a proper host, not only for its youth but to utilize the host abilities.

Many times? Such as? There are moments when a shinobi should've used a technique plenty of times and didn't.

He could've sensed Kabuto himself and identified him [

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], however he didn't. He also wanted to reach the place faster, although, mayfly could've been much faster way for himself. Not only this, but unlike Minato's and Tobirama's, Zetsu's sensing is passive [

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]; contradicting the 'principle' of Fushi Tensei in this case.​

 

[Nattana]

Lol what? Do you know what merging means? He would have to merge and then travel. Before that happens, TBB destroys since Oro would have to see it coming before he resorts to merging and traveling underground. Not to mention you're completely ignoring its speed

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and it being instant in the sense that B can just fire like he did against the Juubi

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. I showed you a scan of Oro jumping back when TBB was prepared to widen the gap between him and Naruto

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. Imagine a CTBB in that situation. He would be destroyed.

Stop this bullshit right there. He may merge but it doesn't mean that the slightest damaged caused to Earth itself will damage his body. I don't know where you got this shit from. Resorting to merge and travel takes way less time than summoning 3 giant gates meters before you - making the distance between them and TBB even shorter. You showed me a scan of Oro jumping back but it doesn't mean shit, considering that he started prepping his Sanjuu Rashoumon AFTER TBB Blast had been already fired off.

What are you even talking about?

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Bee basically did the same. The energy beam from the SFX doesn't mean there was an additional destructive and pushing force. Nothing suggest that. He did it here and it produced the same result

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it vaporizes rocks

Against Suigetsu Bee used a complete Tailed Beast Blast. It wasn't TBB. Also, if you consider a BEAM and a BALL the same thing, then I guess you should stop posting. What KN4 used was clearly a combination of TBBlast and TBBall.

 

[blazekev90]

He could've sensed Kabuto himself and identified him [

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], however he didn't. He also wanted to reach the place faster, although, mayfly could've been much faster way for himself. Not only this, but unlike Minato's and Tobirama's, Zetsu's sensing is passive [

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]; contradicting the 'principle' of Fushi Tensei in this case.​

As stated a few chapters later, one couldn't distinguish Kabuto's chakra as he has several (sound 5, taka). Orochimaru explained to this Karin as they finally arrived. Orochimaru asking is she could sense exactly who it was doesn't debunk the fact that he could sense, but rather him simply asking her perspective since he was unable to do so.

Also, let's not forget Orochimaru was able to sense a familiar being within the Spiral Zetsu, someone no one else was capable of doing. Even Minato couldn't sense his own student.

He was traveling with others, with the intention of them assisting him. Him arriving before them would have been meaningless.

 

[Haizaki]

That doesn't seem to do the case bro

Here:

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Afterwards:

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Not at all. Like Sasuke said, He had to guide it towards Itachi. Zetsu himself said it's an inescapable jutsu. So not a chance of him avoiding it.

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From what you've shown, it doesn't in anyway show that he evaded it. Not at all. Not when he was shown covering himself during the attack. He probably travelled after it was used or before it was even guided which I doubt both since he is shown covering himself while the attack was being used. The distance isn't significant at all and he's shown on top of broken rocks as well.

 

[Nattana]

He could've sensed Kabuto himself and identified him [

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], however he didn't. He also wanted to reach the place faster, although, mayfly could've been much faster way for himself. Not only this, but unlike Minato's and Tobirama's, Zetsu's sensing is passive [

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]; contradicting the 'principle' of Fushi Tensei in this case.​

Karin is a superior sensor so it's obvious Orochimaru asked her to try to identify the stranger. Also, obviously he wanted to reach the place asap, but obviously for Kishi the whole Taka team getting there at the same time was more important plot-wise. Juugo could've dashed faster with his jet pack, but he didn't. Orochimaru could've used his Shunshin but he didn't.

Zetsu sensing isn't passive, considering that a few panels earlier he got blitzed and surprised by Mei.

 

[Rιver]

As stated a few chapters later, one couldn't distinguish Kabuto's chakra as he has several (sound 5, taka). Orochimaru explained to this Karin as they finally arrived. Orochimaru asking is she could sense exactly who it was doesn't debunk the fact that he could sense, but rather him simply asking her perspective since he was unable to do so.

Also, let's not forget Orochimaru was able to sense a familiar being within the Spiral Zetsu, someone no one else was capable of doing. Even Minato couldn't sense his own student.

He was traveling with others, with the intention of them assisting him. Him arriving before them would have been meaningless.

Hm, a fair point. However, there's still the fact that he couldn't sense Sasuke's chakra dissipating...

Orochimaru sensed Yamato...? I highly doubt that. Also, Minato's sensing is not passive [

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]. So isn't Tobirama's. Only Naruto, Kabuto, Karin and Zetsu have this applicable feat.

If he truly wanted to reach the point faster while Karin was guiding them, what is the point of assisting them if he didn't need to or even do so? He could have, but never did.​

Karin is a superior sensor so it's obvious Orochimaru asked her to try to identify the stranger. Also, obviously he wanted to reach the place asap, but obviously for Kishi the whole Taka team getting there at the same time was more important plot-wise. Juugo could've dashed faster with his jet pack, but he didn't. Orochimaru could've used his Shunshin but he didn't.

Zetsu sensing isn't passive, considering that a few panels earlier he got blitzed and surprised by Mei.

'Superior'... by what basis? Both have shown marvelous sensing skills, none have shown to be inferior to each other.

Orochimaru is not exactly one of the fastest characters in Naruto, while Jūgo has become irrelevant to the storyline.

Same with Naruto against Preta Path, however, we are all aware of the fact that Naruto's sensing in HM is passive...​

 

[TRE MERCER]

If B cuts him in his true form the poison is released. If he nukes him with Bijuu Dama there would be nothing left, meaning no poison.




Uh, no, he can't. Don't try and equalize it to Nukite. Not to mention it won't do anything as Bijuu Dama rapes him.




It is the case. KN4 had the power necessary to kill this guy. If it had been KN6 he would have died. Him beating a Perfect Jin is ridiculous.



Sure, but in this case B is stronger and he stomps Orochimaru. Bijuu Dama GG.



Manda isn't doing shit to Hachibi. It gets slapped away just how the 5 Tails got slapped away, then B launches a Bijuu Dama and fodderizes Orochimaru.

Is this suppose to be a counter? All you did was repeat yourself. Manda goes underground and then comes right under him and proceed to wrap him up. Or Orochimaru can go underground and pull his giant sword up and stab Hachibi in his shit. Etc to many ways for Orochimaru to get around tbb's.

 

[blazekev90]

Not at all. Like Sasuke said, He had to guide it towards Itachi. Zetsu himself said it's an inescapable jutsu. So not a chance of him avoiding it.

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From what you've shown, it doesn't in anyway show that he evaded it. Not at all. Not when he was shown covering himself during the attack. He probably travelled after it was used or before it was even guided which I doubt both since he is shown covering himself while the attack was being used. The distance isn't significant at all and he's shown on top of broken rocks as well.

Zetsu hyping a jutsu he's unfamiliar with means nothing when scans are presented.

He was shielding himself from the debris after the impact, which is reasonable.

Zetsu staying in the same spot, as I shown you earlier and withstand this impact

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Is highly unlikely. The impact destroyed everything, even the statue Sasuke leaped to use the technique.

 

[blazekev90]

Hm, a fair point. However, there's still the fact that he couldn't sense Sasuke's chakra dissipating...

Orochimaru sensed Yamato...? I highly doubt that. Also, Minato's sensing is not passive [

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]. So isn't Tobirama's. Only Naruto, Kabuto, Karin and Zetsu have this applicable feat.

If he truly wanted to reach the point faster while Karin was guiding them, what is the point of assisting them if he didn't need to or even do so? He could have, but never did.​

He sensed a familiar chakra within the Spiral Zetsu. He only had one encounter with Yamato, so he questioned whether it was truly him. Karin is there to sense, that's her role. For IC purposes, it should have been her doing that.

Minato used sensing nearby Tobi before and unable to determine that being Obito. It's a matter of mixed/shielded chakra

 

[Nattana]

'Superior'... by what basis? Both have shown marvelous sensing skills, none have shown to be inferior to each other.

Orochimaru is not exactly one of the fastest characters in Naruto, while Jūgo has become irrelevant to the storyline.

Same with Naruto against Preta Path, however, we are all aware of the fact that Naruto's sensing in HM is passive...​

Karin is superior to Zetsu in terms of sensing. Way superior and by it I don't mind range of sensing at all. She has many more feats to her sensing - check manga panels with her or simply visit the narutowiki.

BZ wasn't fighting anyone doe. If he had passive sensing he would've reacted - but he didn't. If he just go blitzed it would be ok, but not only did he get blitzed BUT also he was surprised about what happened. It clearly shows that he wasn't using his sensory abilities back then.

About team Taka... Kishimoto for some reason wanted them to go at the same speed. Orochimaru had Mayfly, Shunshin and Slithering Snake Mode. He didn't use any of them. Reason? Plot.

 

[KidGamer65]

Is this suppose to be a counter? All you did was repeat yourself. Manda goes underground and then comes right under him and proceed to wrap him up. Or Orochimaru can go underground and pull his giant sword up and stab Hachibi in his shit. Etc to many ways for Orochimaru to get around tbb's.

When Manda gets the strength feats to restrain a Bijuu then we can talk. Until then, if Manda attacks him, he gets slapped away with minimal effort, and if Orochimaru goes underground, he gets nuked when he comes back up. I have no reason to believe Orochimaru is going to consistently evade a projectile that has Mountain sized AoE and moves as fast as Rasen Shuriken, especially when Killer B can just use his whirlwind first, blow these guys back (preventing them from going underground) and then nuking them.

Lol, stabbing Hachibi isn't going to do anything. Orochimaru stabs him, B retaliates and Orochimaru gets raped.

 

[Rιver]

He sensed a familiar chakra within the Spiral Zetsu. He only had one encounter with Yamato, so he questioned whether it was truly him. Karin is there to sense, that's her role. For IC purposes, it should have been her doing that.

Minato used sensing nearby Tobi before and unable to determine that being Obito. It's a matter of mixed/shielded chakra

He wouldn't be able to; he has never had sensory abilities (putatively, if we include Zetsu's arsenal), during his lifetime. He has only once encountered, as you said, Yamato. He never knew of Yamato's chakra signature nor whether it was familiar or not; if he did, this would contradict your earlier post:

''As stated a few chapters later, one couldn't distinguish Kabuto's chakra as he has several (sound 5, taka). Orochimaru explained to this Karin as they finally arrived. Orochimaru asking is she could sense exactly who it was doesn't debunk the fact that he could sense, but rather him simply asking her perspective since he was unable to do so.''

...

When?​

Karin is superior to Zetsu in terms of sensing. Way superior and by it I don't mind range of sensing at all. She has many more feats to her sensing - check manga panels with her or simply visit the narutowiki.

BZ wasn't fighting anyone doe. If he had passive sensing he would've reacted - but he didn't. If he just go blitzed it would be ok, but not only did he get blitzed BUT also he was surprised about what happened. It clearly shows that he wasn't using his sensory abilities back then.

About team Taka... Kishimoto for some reason wanted them to go at the same speed. Orochimaru had Mayfly, Shunshin and Slithering Snake Mode. He didn't use any of them. Reason? Plot.

I suppose...? Irrelevant, regardless.

Naruto in HM arrived in the village, and could not sense familiar chakra nearby, although he was in Konohagakure; hence the ''where did you bring us?''. When a character does not expect one thing, they won't usually react to something, regardless if one had sensing or not. However, their sensing retains the reputation of being passive.

...

Plot?​

 

[Nattana]

Naruto in HM arrived in the village, and could not sense familiar chakra nearby, although he was in Konohagakure; hence the ''where did you bring us?''. When a character does not expect one thing, they won't usually react to something, regardless if one had sensing or not. However, their sensing retains the reputation of being passive.

Lol. You couldn't hava picked any worse example. Naruto was shocked. Never in his dreams did he think something like that would even happen to his village. Sensing has nothing to do in here.

Plot?

Plot or rather lack of plot. And lack of panel time. We both know Orochimaru could've used anything from what I already mentioned to get there faster but for some reason he didn't. Ask Kishimoto.

 

[blazekev90]

@River

Simple. Hashi DNA!

As I stated Orochimaru sensed a chakra within and hypothesized it being Yamato or someone he's familiar with. If I remember correctly, Orochimaru stated "hm, could it be" meaning he distinguish something about the chakra. Zetsu = Hashi chakra, something he's currently using. Yamato = Hashi chakra and his own.


That quote was in regard to Kabuto and his multiple mixtures of chakra

Also, I'm on my phone. Can you separate the multiple quotes pls

 

[Haizaki]

Stop this bullshit right there. He may merge but it doesn't mean that the slightest damaged caused to Earth itself will damage his body. I don't know where you got this shit from. Resorting to merge and travel takes way less time than summoning 3 giant gates meters before you - making the distance between them and TBB even shorter. You showed me a scan of Oro jumping back but it doesn't mean shit, considering that he started prepping his Sanjuu Rashoumon AFTER TBB Blast had been already fired off.

The only thing that needs to be stopped is your stupid wank for this character. You initially mentioned all those nonsense techniques such "Hiding in a mole" but once you realized it was useless, you initial choice was to wank the hell out of Mayfly.

I showed you a scan of him jumping back to show you he had to widen the gap since that would give him more time to defend himself. It would damage him if he merges. As simple as that. He could summon that because of the distance. Like I told you, the gap was widened. He said if he gets hit, he dies and then jumped back. Why then would he jump back and summon rashoumon? Simply because he couldn't summon Rashoumon or defend himself from such a distance.

I wonder where you got traveling 10 KM and not slower than Obito from when Obito was already there before he did and it wasn't even shown when Obito got to Sasuke. That doesn't save him from CTBB.

Against Suigetsu Bee used a complete Tailed Beast Blast. It wasn't TBB. Also, if you consider a BEAM and a BALL the same thing, then I guess you should stop posting. What KN4 used was clearly a combination of TBBlast and TBBall.

There we go with your nonsense again.

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This is a tailed beast ball and that's what he used. Stop this bullcrap you're talking about Bomb and blast when it's the same damn thing but just used differently. The SFX says Explosion

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meaning the ball exploded and produced that result . Your gibberish doesn't help.

Also if you don't stop wanking this guy then I guess you should stop posting. KN6 Naruto did the same damn thing without swallowing any damn TBB and adding chakra to it like your stupid logic implies. I showed a scan of the exact tame thing. Can't tell they are the same? KN6

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KN4

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. It's the same energy beam that surrounds the ball and it is more than evident there unless you need to get your eyes checked. SFX weren't used for that entire chapter which is probably why you keep saying they are different. There's no evidence that additional chakra was used for that KN4 TBB. Not at all.