Onoki vs Hashirama

[Rikudou Tobi]

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Yeah this is what I was talking about. Even if it's just a tiny whole through the turtle island, that massive creature would perish. If he said that his Jinton would destroy the entire island then I would agree with you.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

The definition also includes
end the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it. (I.E killing the turtle by attacking it with jinton)
and
wreck, ruin, blast, eliminate, again by blasting it with Jinton
So what's your point? but i guess selective reading is your specialty.

I'm maintaining what's shown cannon feat wise, Jinton has zero feats of doing what you claim. I'm not ignoring cannon feats just because some idiot on NB claims things with zero support other than "it's plot"

Lmfaoooooooo, onoki didnt use conical jinton so your theory flies off to uranus. Onoki never disagreed with akatsuchi so thats proof jinton can conical destroy obliterate Madara and his Susanoo cleanly.

You clearly didnt read the definition or db did you? 'Zero support' = you fanfic. I've statements which are canon which support that onoki can do it.

The first definition says 'completely destroying the existence' --> the existence here is the island so read the context. Or can you go and sleep?

Yeah this is what I was talking about. Even if it's just a tiny whole through the turtle island, that massive creature would perish. If he said that his Jinton would destroy the entire island then I would agree with you.

Akatsuchi said 'you'll destroy the turtle island' not 'kill the turtle', so the context is the former. Muu stated numbers or crowds font matter against conical jinton which onoki was about to use here.

Firstly, Onoki can say that he can destroy the entire world with Dust Release, but that does not make it true until he can prove it, which he has yet to. Secondly, of course Dust Release needs to cover something as big as an island to destroy it. It's not even so much destroying something as it is reassembling the molecules of something. Your logic implies that upon contact with the ground, Dust Release would destroy the entire world, considering that it "only needs to touch it to destroy it" and "doesn't need to cover the entire object". The part about Deidara is irrelevant, and the part about Madara is ignorant, so I won't bother to dignify either with a proper response. Not trying to call you ignorant, of course, that's rude. Just your statement lacks knowledge, so it is by definition ignorant.​

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Madara cannot absorb with his Susanoo on. He has never used it with susanoo and the above statement proves it, if he could absorb jinton, he wouldve done it. Instead of escaping. So there goes your doubt and 'my ignorance'. Destroy means ' completely shatter or completely annihilate an existence', atleast according to dictionary definition, so think what you want. 25 Susanoo was broken by onoki so all of them combined >> PS size.

It can shatter island level structures by touching it, according to databook and according to various reliable statements from onoki's teammates. And the fact is, he never opposed akatsuchi's view anout jinton. So he knew it could break all the island.

 

[Exaar]

Lmfaoooooooo, onoki didnt use conical jinton so your theory flies off to uranus. Onoki never disagreed with akatsuchi so thats proof jinton can conical destroy obliterate Madara and his Susanoo cleanly.

You clearly didnt read the definition or db did you? 'Zero support' = you fanfic. I've statements which are canon which support that onoki can do it.

The first definition says 'completely destroying the existence' --> the existence here is the island so read the context. Or can you go and sleep?

You can have statements that says Onoki has a 3 dicks for all i care.

Again with the selective understanding of words, Ending something or someones existence can mean killing them.... Same As Eliminate which the definition of destroy also includes, So yeah, Try again.

Cannon Feats > Your "cuz plot" excuses.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

Akatsuchi said 'you'll destroy the turtle island' not 'kill the turtle', so the context is the former. Muu stated numbers or crowds font matter against conical jinton which onoki was about to use here.

In a literal context of the manga especially when English isn't the other's first language, one word can have a thousand different meanings. So him saying he'll destroy the island falls into the same context of him killing the island.

If I had a small glock 9mm on me, and I shoot some random sap on the street because English is our first language (I'm assuming), you would say "you killed that guy." But for someone who was taught formal English from a different country would probably say that "You destroyed that guy with your gun." It's not wrong but it's too formal, and that's what Viz translation is. They takes words very literal. So if you don't see the adjective in front of the action to thoroughly explain the condition, then you can't determine the exact outcome.

That's why viz is used in actual debates and such, so people rely more on *********** to relate to their everyday English.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

You can have statements that says Onoki has a 3 dicks for all i care.

Again with the selective understanding of words, Ending something or someones existence can mean killing them.... Same As Eliminate which the definition of destroy also includes, So yeah, Try again.

Cannon Feats > Your "cuz plot" excuses.

How is that selective understanding? Dont be do angry, that madara loses, he might as well get his head atomised with jinton since in the above scan he barely dodged it, as you can see the light of jinton beside him. So if it was the turtle island level jinton, nothing seems like he could even attempt to dodge it lmfaooooooooooooo. Or maybe your fanfic is written so biasedly that he could maybe dodge island level one in that lol. Here the existence is not life but rather the island, since akatsuchi clearly didnt say anything about killing but rather about destroying. So the context is the entire island. So madara loses this utterly. Manga contradicting itself = plot armor. Lmfaoooo can you understand it now? Lmao.

In a literal context of the manga especially when English isn't the other's first language, one word can have a thousand different meanings. So him saying he'll destroy the island falls into the same context of him killing the island.

If I had a small glock 9mm on me, and I shoot some random sap on the street because English is our first language (I'm assuming), you would say "you killed that guy." But for someone who was taught formal English from a different country would probably say that "You destroyed that guy with your gun." It's not wrong but it's too formal, and that's what Viz translation is. They takes words very literal. So if you don't see the adjective in front of the action to thoroughly explain the condition, then you can't determine the exact outcome.

That's why viz is used in actual debates and such, so people rely more on *********** to relate to their everyday English.

There was nothing about 'killing' in that scan. Nothing. Both of them know or didnt know it was a living being doesnt matter. It is a known fact that numbers = zero meaning before jinton which was stated by muu who is the inventor of jinton. And regardless he was talking about destroying or killing, fact remains, PS isnt even half the size of the island. So how is proving the island was just gonna be killed or damaged by jinton gonna prove madara will survive it with his mini PS? Again in your analogy about 'he destroyed that guy with a gun' is unheard of or kinda rare form of speech or wording in spoken english.

 

[Imperious]

Madara cannot absorb with his Susanoo on. He has never used it with susanoo and the above statement proves it, if he could absorb jinton, he wouldve done it. Instead of escaping. So there goes your doubt and 'my ignorance'. Destroy means ' completely shatter or completely annihilate an existence', atleast according to dictionary definition, so think what you want. 25 Susanoo was broken by onoki so all of them combined >> PS size.

It can shatter island level structures by touching it, according to databook and according to various reliable statements from onoki's teammates. And the fact is, he never opposed akatsuchi's view anout jinton. So he knew it could break all the island.

Ah. You admit that Dust Release destroys Perfect Susano'o. If Susano'o can't stop Dust Release, then what other viable counters do Madara have? Considering Madara himself stated that he let Dust Release hit him to show them his Hashirama implant and destroy their morale. Implying that had he not wanted to be hit by Dust Release he wouldn't have been. But if Susano'o isn't a viable counter to Dust Release and he still believes that he could avoid it if he wanted to, then what other means might he have had in mind? Speed is one possibility, which would mean that you would have to concede to the fact that Madara can react to Onoki's Dust Release. The other possibility is that he could have simply absorbed it. Sure, he was never shown to absorb a jutsu while using Susano'o, but there is nothing directly saying that he can't. He has the proper conditions to absorb a jutsu (rinnegan), so the burden of proof is shifted upon you to provide me with a manga panel of Madara stating "I can't absorb jutsu while using Susano'o". I'll wait. Because all of your arguments are thin strands, single manga panels that you're out on a limb on trying to interpret in a way that best suits you. And i'm not even going over destroy with you again, because destroying something does not mean erasing it on a molecular-level, which is what Dust Release does. I can destroy a cup, I can destroy my phone, but the pieces will still be there, because i'm not completely erasing it. Shattering it, sure, but not erasing it like Dust Release does. AND NO, it can erase an enemy by touching them, but as I said, it cannot erase an entire island simply by "touching it", nor does it say anywhere in the databook that it can do that specifically to an island. That's you interpreting things to your convenience once more. Logically, Dust Release would have to encase the entire island to completely erase it, which it CANNOT DO. Because going by that logic would mean that Dust Release could level entire continents or even the entire world simply by touching the ground with Dust Release. Why not? According to you, Dust Release can an entire space simply by touching a part of it. Try to wrap your head around the possibility that Akatsuchi might have been implying a different kind of "destroy". Is that so hard to believe? Or do you just not want to believe it because it completely and utterly inconveniences your argument? ​

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[Exaar]

How is that selective understanding? Dont be do angry, that madara loses, he might as well get his head atomised with jinton since in the above scan he barely dodged it, as you can see the light of jinton beside him. So if it was the turtle island level jinton, nothing seems like he could even attempt to dodge it lmfaooooooooooooo. Or maybe your fanfic is written so biasedly that he could maybe dodge island level one in that lol. Here the existence is not life but rather the island, since akatsuchi clearly didnt say anything about killing but rather about destroying. So the context is the entire island. So madara loses this utterly. Manga contradicting itself = plot armor. Lmfaoooo can you understand it now? Lmao.

Seriously?, Your ignoring every other definition of Destroy apart from the one that supports your claim. That's selective understanding.

Also completely ignoring "Destroy" can mean killing which is very common in manga translations, Which based on cannon feats is more plausible that what your claiming.

> Marada defeated Muu + onoki
> Madara defeated Onoki + 4 kage
> Onoki has no island busting feats
> Muu has no island busting feats

 

[Imperious]

In a literal context of the manga especially when English isn't the other's first language, one word can have a thousand different meanings. So him saying he'll destroy the island falls into the same context of him killing the island.

If I had a small glock 9mm on me, and I shoot some random sap on the street because English is our first language (I'm assuming), you would say "you killed that guy." But for someone who was taught formal English from a different country would probably say that "You destroyed that guy with your gun." It's not wrong but it's too formal, and that's what Viz translation is. They takes words very literal. So if you don't see the adjective in front of the action to thoroughly explain the condition, then you can't determine the exact outcome.

That's why viz is used in actual debates and such, so people rely more on *********** to relate to their everyday English.

Actually, no. Misinterpreting "kill" as "destroy" would imply that the two of them knew that the island was a living being that could even be killed, which they didn't, so the intended word could not have been "kill" no matter how you look at it.​

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[Rikudou Tobi]

There was nothing about 'killing' in that scan. Nothing. Both of them know or didnt know it was a living being doesnt matter. It is a known fact that numbers = zero meaning before jinton which was stated by muu who is the inventor of jinton. And regardless he was talking about destroying or killing, fact remains, PS isnt even half the size of the island. So how is proving the island was just gonna be killed or damaged by jinton gonna prove madara will survive it with his mini PS? Again in your analogy about 'he destroyed that guy with a gun' is unheard of or kinda rare form of speech or wording in spoken english.

It's a rare form of English to use but for people who don't speak it as their first language speak like that from time to time.

But to basically shortern the point I was trying to make is that yes, the island is bigger than Perfect Susano'o but destroying an object doesn't mean wipping it out of existence in its entirety. He can still erase 3/4 of that giant rock island and it's still considered destroyed. To destroy means to damage so by damaging the turtle island even if it's not completely eradicated still means that it is destroyed. They also know it's alive too.

Actually, no. Misinterpreting "kill" as "destroy" would imply that the two of them knew that the island was a living being that could even be killed, which they didn't, so the intended word could not have been "kill" no matter how you look at it.​

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They did know it was alive, Ay told them in the conference. All the kages where aware the last time I checked.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Ah. You admit that Dust Release destroys Perfect Susano'o. If Susano'o can't stop Dust Release, then what other viable counters do Madara have? Considering Madara himself stated that he let Dust Release hit him to show them his Hashirama implant and destroy their morale. Implying that had he not wanted to be hit by Dust Release he wouldn't have been. But if Susano'o isn't a viable counter to Dust Release and he still believes that he could avoid it if he wanted to, then what other means might he have had in mind? Speed is one possibility, which would mean that you would have to concede to the fact that Madara can react to Onoki's Dust Release. The other possibility is that he could have simply absorbed it. Sure, he was never shown to absorb a jutsu while using Susano'o, but there is nothing directly saying that he can't. He has the proper conditions to absorb a jutsu (rinnegan), so the burden of proof is shifted upon you to provide me with a manga panel of Madara stating "I can't absorb jutsu while using Susano'o". I'll wait. Because all of your arguments are thin strands, single manga panels that you're out on a limb on trying to interpret in a way that best suits you. And i'm not even going over destroy with you again, because destroying something does not mean erasing it on a molecular-level, which is what Dust Release does. I can destroy a cup, I can destroy my phone, but the pieces will still be there, because i'm not completely erasing it. Shattering it, sure, but not erasing it like Dust Release does. AND NO, it can erase an enemy by touching them, but as I said, it cannot erase an entire island simply by "touching it", nor does it say anywhere in the databook that it can do that specifically to an island. That's you interpreting things to your convenience once more. Logically, Dust Release would have to encase the entire island to completely erase it, which it CANNOT DO. Because going by that logic would mean that Dust Release could level entire continent or even the entire world simply by touching the ground with Dust Release. Try to wrap your head around the possibility that Akatsuchi might have been implying a different kind of "destroy". Is that so hard to believe? Or do you just not want to believe it because it completely and utterly inconveniences your argument? ​

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Manga fact >> your opinion once again. I'm not twisting anything. You're the one twisting and saying 'destroy' can be many terms and in this context is completely wrong since onoki or akatsuchi never disagreed with each other. The context was the island and you not understanding or comprehending and making my argument 'thin strands' when I provided proof, is just reaching and utter denial of facts. Madara also said mei's jutsu wasnt worth absorbing doesnt change the fact that he was injured and immobilized somewhat for something he told was 'worthless' to him. Deidara's bombs can destroy village level area according to DB, yet he sweated in front of jinton. And just after akatsuchi said the statement. Onoki never disagreed. Muu acknowledged onoki was the only guy who can stop him cuz numbers and size dont matter. All of these are facts unlike your interpretations. Destroy = completely breaking. Not partially breaking which will be 'damage'. You'll 'damage' or 'kill' the island,if he had said, would've rendered your opinion correct. So as of now, manga fact outright denies. Databook agrees just a touch destroys the target. No need to cover or surround or anything. That's your opinion. 'Logically' it doesnt have to encase the whole island which is nothing more than your bias fanfic. Databook says only a touch is enough. Manga never disagrees, since akatsuchi and muu statement is more than enough to prove that. And shape manipulation increases the power of a jutsu according to db, jinto cone shape wasnt utilized during madara fight. And given all the statements from every reliable person, madara was one lucky guy to not get obliterated by onoki with his small rat sized susanoo against island busting jinton to shield him. Lol.

Seriously?, Your ignoring every other definition of Destroy apart from the one that supports your claim. That's selective understanding.

Also completely ignoring "Destroy" can mean killing which is very common in manga translations, Which based on cannon feats is more plausible that what your claiming.

> Marada defeated Muu + onoki
> Madara defeated Onoki + 4 kage
> Onoki has no island busting feats
> Muu has no island busting feats

Muu said numbers dont matter against him and numbers make up size.

Actually, no. Misinterpreting "kill" as "destroy" would imply that the two of them knew that the island was a living being that could even be killed, which they didn't, so the intended word could not have been "kill" no matter how you look at it.​

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Tsuchikage knows sentienty of turtle island. He would tell it to akatsuchi.

It's a rare form of English to use but for people who don't speak it as their first language speak like that from time to time.

But to basically shortern the point I was trying to make is that yes, the island is bigger than Perfect Susano'o but destroying an object doesn't mean wipping it out of existence in its entirety. He can still erase 3/4 of that giant rock island and it's still considered destroyed. To destroy means to damage so by damaging the turtle island even if it's not completely eradicated still means that it is destroyed. They also know it's alive too.

They know its alive but doesnt say 'kill'.......

 

[Imperious]

They did know it was alive, Ay told them in the conference. All the kages where aware the last time I checked.

Spoiler

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Manga panel says otherwise ​

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[Tyrance sasuke]

They did know it was alive, Ay told them in the conference. All the kages where aware the last time I checked.

That makes it easier for me, since they know its alive they'd have used "you'll kill the turtle".

 

[Exaar]

That makes it easier for me, since they know its alive they'd have used "you'll kill the turtle".

The term destroy is used in place of "kill", It's common in manga, such as "I'll destroy you". Read the definition of destroy that you yourself posted

It's like talking to a child

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Spoiler

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Manga panel says otherwise ​

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That turtle is still an island. Onoki was send to guard them, you telling he didnt know is reaching at its finest. Its like saying a guard doesnt know who the king is or what he is protecting looks like after some 50-60 years of experience, like onoki, who has been since the time of madara and all. He ofcourse knows the info of the place where naruto and bee are located lmfao. It is called 'turtle island' so it can be called an 'island' or a 'turtle'. Shortforms. Like madara called guy's blue aura as 'chakra'. Madara knew about his abilities as he said "if you dont bring up red steam, it will be a dishonour to me". Proven

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

The term destroy is used in place of "kill", It's common in manga, such as "I'll destroy you". Read the definition of destroy that you yourself posted

It's like talking to a child

'I'll destroy you' --> I'll completely erase you, not just damage you, so watch where you're stepping.

 

[Exaar]

Muu said numbers dont matter against him and numbers make up size.

He also said Onoki is the only one who could stop him, yet Madara defeated him in the past.

RSM Naruto stomps him
Rinnegan sasuke stomps him
Juubi jin Obito stomps him
Juubi jin madara stomps him
Kaguya stomps him.

Soooo?????

 

[Exaar]

'I'll destroy you' --> I'll completely erase you, not just damage you, so watch where you're stepping.

My god, It's literally retarded


destroy
dɪˈstrɔɪ/Submit
verb
end the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it.
"the room had been destroyed by fire"
synonyms: demolish, knock down, pull down, tear down, level, raze (to the ground), fell, dismantle, break up, wreck, ruin, smash, shatter, crash, blast, blow up, blow to bits/pieces, dynamite, explode, bomb, torpedo More
ruin (someone) emotionally or spiritually.
"he has been determined to destroy her"
defeat (someone) utterly.
"Northants have the batting to destroy anyone"
synonyms: annihilate, wipe out, obliterate, wipe off the face of the earth, wipe off the map, eliminate, eradicate, liquidate, extinguish, finish off, erase, root out, extirpate; More

eliminate
ɪˈlɪmɪneɪt/Submit
verb
1.
completely remove or get rid of (something).
"a policy that would eliminate inflation"
synonyms: remove, get rid of, abolish, put an end to, do away with, banish; end, stop, terminate, eradicate, destroy, annihilate, stamp out, obliterate, wipe out, extinguish, quash, finish off; informalgive something the chop, knock something on the head
"the cause of the disease has been eliminated"

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

He also said Onoki is the only one who could stop him, yet Madara defeated him in the past.

RSM Naruto stomps him
Rinnegan sasuke stomps him
Juubi jin Obito stomps him
Juubi jin madara stomps him
Kaguya stomps him.

Soooo?????

Madara defeated him with plot. Even normal jinton is enough to break the susanoo's legs. Then he has to reform it. It doesnt make sense by just comparing thier jutsus. Juubi jins and kaguya stomps because of absorption, I agree. Take away gudodama and absorption, onoki wins.

 

[Imperious]

That turtle is still an island. Onoki was send to guard them, you telling he didnt know is reaching at its finest. Its like saying a guard doesnt know who the king is or what he is protecting looks like after some 50-60 years of experience, like onoki, who has been since the time of madara and all. He ofcourse knows the info of the place where naruto and bee are located lmfao. It is called 'turtle island' so it can be called an 'island' or a 'turtle'. Shortforms. Like madara called guy's blue aura as 'chakra'. Madara knew about his abilities as he said "if you dont bring up red steam, it will be a dishonour to me". Proven

Spoiler

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"IT'S JUST A ROCK, AFTER ALL!" - NOT "I KNOW IT'S A TURTLE AND I WANT TO DESTROY IT ANYWAY", because I know that's what you're seeing *_*​

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[Tyrance sasuke]

Spoiler

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"IT'S JUST A ROCK, AFTER ALL!" - NOT "I KNOW IT'S A TURTLE AND I WANT TO DESTROY IT ANYWAY", because I know that's what you're seeing *_*​

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Doesnt matter. He knows what that island is, raikage ofcourse gave him info about it. Still its considered an island. 'Turtle Island', there you go. So he could either say 'turtle' or 'island'. Yamato knew. Aoba knew. Motoi knew. So why shouldnt onoki, someone higher than the commanders not know about an island feature. That's ridiculous. So what I said is correct.