Onoki vs Hashirama

[Tyrance sasuke]

Turtle Islands sentience is not common knowledge, as even evidenced by the very point you called out, Akatsuchi's choice of words being "destroy" rather than "kill". Not only that, but fodder characters are known to over-hype techniques and make false or ill-estimated statements. Also, I must add once more that Dust Release disintegrates. any object that in come into contact with at a molecular level. It lacks the blunt shattering force that would induce structural instability.​

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Lmao that was because if he had said 'kill' then viewers would have the miscontruing, that onoki will fire a small beam and just 'kill' the turtle. And yes except naruto and bee at that time, the turtle sentienty was well known by the higher ups, onoki knew the location of naruto, he was also kept there for protecting them. Dont reach. Akatsuchi has seen his attack and onoki never disagreed with him. Meaning onoki knows akatsuchi said is right.

 

[Exaar]

Lmfao, there's a clear statement that onoki can do that still there is denial?

Do you not read the manga or watch the anime?

Take a look at all his jinton feats, Then take a look at Jinton + Tsunade powering it up, It was smaller than Madara's susanoo, Let alone being island level. It's as imperious said, It would've killed the Turtle, Thus causing the destruction of the entire island, Not that the jinton could destroy it all in one shot because Jinton feats prove otherwise.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Do you not read the manga or watch the anime?

Take a look at all his jinton feats, Then take a look at Jinton + Tsunade powering it up, It was smaller than Madara's susanoo, Let alone being island level. It's as imperious said, It would've killed the Turtle, Thus causing the destruction of the entire island, Not that the jinton could destroy it all in one shot because Jinton feats prove otherwise.

Completely miscontruing the statement and supporting madara. Nothing new.

 

[Imperious]

Lmao that was because if he had said 'kill' then viewers would have the miscontruing, that onoki will fire a small beam and just 'kill' the turtle. And yes except naruto and bee at that time, the turtle sentienty was well known by the higher ups, onoki knew the location of naruto, he was also kept there for protecting them. Dont reach. Akatsuchi has seen his attack and onoki never disagreed with him. Meaning onoki knows akatsuchi said is right.

The part about the viewers misconstruation is invalid, and therefore invalidates any argument regarding it, considering that you can't back it up with evidence. The rest of the post, about the higher-ups knowing of the Turtle Island being sentient is a viable argument. However, Kitsuchi is not a higher-up, and his word choice of "destroy" instead of "kill" is even evidence towards his ignorance of that subject. However, that is irrelevant, because "destroy" is up to interpretation. Dust Release may have partially destroyed the island, or as I've said before, could have rendered it structurally unstable the same way a nail can a boulder. Regardless of all of this, Dust Release has never been shown to be an island-scale attack. If Dust Release could destroy an entire island, than Onoki would have used it to destroy the incoming meteorites that Madara summoned. And don't dare say Onoki might not have had enough chakra to use Dust Release, considering that he had enough chakra to disperse through the entirety of an entire, massive meteorite, completely altering it's mountainous mass so that even he could lift it by himself.​

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[Tyrance sasuke]

I take it the answer to my question is no.

Feats > Your shitty opinion

No. He didnt use conical jinton which muu uses. Feats = statements.

The part about the viewers misconstruation is invalid, and therefore invalidates any argument regarding it, considering that you can't back it up with evidence. The rest of the post, about the higher-ups knowing of the Turtle Island being sentient is a viable argument. However, Kitsuchi is not a higher-up, and his word choice of "destroy" instead of "kill" is even evidence towards his ignorance of that subject. However, that is irrelevant, because "destroy" is up to interpretation. Dust Release may have partially destroyed the Island, or as I've said before, could have rendered it structurally unstable the same way a small nail can a boulder. Regardless of all of this, Dust Release has never been shown too be at an island scale. If Dust Release could destroy an entire Island, than Onoki would have used it to destroy the incoming meteorites that Madara summoned, and don't dare say he didn't have enough chakra to use Dust Release, considering that he could disperse enough chakra through the entirety of the first meteorite to completely alter it's mass so that even his feeble arms could hold it.​

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His name is akatsuchi. And yes he knew because he and onoki and kurotsuchi were send to guard naruto and bee. Lmao wait, doesnt that mean according to your logic, akatsuchi was talking about destroying the whole island since he didnt know it was turtle so he wasnt referring to 'killing' it, was he?

 

[Lord Tywin]

His name is akatsuchi. And yes he knew because he and onoki and kurotsuchi were send to guard naruto and bee. Lmao wait, doesnt that mean according to your logic, akatsuchi was talking about destroying the whole island since he didnt know it was turtle so he wasnt referring to 'killing' it, was he?

They already knew it was a turtle island

 

[Exaar]

No. He didnt use conical jinton which muu uses. Feats = statements.

Completely irrelevant, Onoki obviously wasn't holding back against Edo Madara and his Jinton was small compared to his susanoo.

Size wise
Turtle island > PS > Complete susanoo > Tsunade powered jinton > Normal jinton.

Show me any feat of Jinton being a island buster, Be it Muu or Onoki, I'll wait.

 

[Imperious]

His name is akatsuchi. And yes he knew because he and onoki and kurotsuchi were send to guard naruto and bee. Lmao wait, doesnt that mean according to your logic, akatsuchi was talking about destroying the whole island since he didnt know it was turtle so he wasnt referring to 'killing' it, was he?

Kurotsuchi, Akatsuchi, Kitsuchi, there are too many of them my apologies. Being sent to guard Naruto and Bee doesn't mean that Akatsuchi was briefed on the island's sentience (wouldn't even be a relevant matter anyhow), unless you have manga scans saying otherwise. And as I've said before, destroy is open to interpretation. He could have been implying that Dust Release could partially destroy the island, or as I've said before, could have rendered it structurally unstable the same way a nail can a boulder. However, the destruction of the island by Dust Release never happened, so Kitsuchi's statement is more hearsay than a feat with visible evidence.​

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[Tyrance sasuke]

They already knew it was a turtle island

I was using imperious logic against him/her. She said they didnt know it was a turtle island, so why would he even say onoki would 'kill' it, since he didnt know it was sentient? Even if they knew, the choice of words prove he was talking about, destroying the whole island instead of just killing or damaging it. This is viz translation, so it's reliable.

Completely irrelevant, Onoki obviously wasn't holding back against Edo Madara and his Jinton was small compared to his susanoo.

Size wise
Turtle island > PS > Complete susanoo > Tsunade powered jinton > Normal jinton.

Show me any feat of Jinton being a island buster, Be it Muu or Onoki, I'll wait.

Lmfao. Talk about denial. It was statex he could do it. And also, he never used conical jinton against madara purposefully. In the above scan he uses conical jinton. Cubical jinton is the one he used against Sasuke which is definitely smaller in size. Muu said numbers are useless against him, and that looking at the alliance full of 80000 ninja.... he said onoki was the only one who can stop him. Use common sense.

 

[Exaar]

Lmfao. Talk about denial. It was statex he could do it. And also, he never used conical jinton against madara purposefully. In the above scan he uses conical jinton. Cubical jinton is the one he used against Sasuke which is definitely smaller in size. Muu said numbers are useless against him, and that looking at the alliance full of 80000 ninja.... he said onoki was the only one who can stop him. Use common sense.

So no feats then?.

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Kurotsuchi, Akatsuchi, Kitsuchi, there are too many of them my apologies. Being sent to guard Naruto and Bee doesn't mean that Akatsuchi was briefed on the island's sentience (wouldn't even be a relevant matter anyhow), unless you have manga scans saying otherwise. And as I've said before, destroy is open to interpretation. He could have been implying that Dust Release could partially destroy the island, or as I've said before, could have rendered it structurally unstable the same way a nail can a boulder. However, the destruction of the island by Dust Release never happened, so Kitsuchi's statement is more hearsay than a feat with visible evidence.​

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Then doesnt it work more against you than for you? If he didnt know about the sentience of the island, he wasnt talking about killing it. So your own logic proves you wrong. You could do all day with your interpretation but manga statements >> your interpretation. Go on and interpret everything any character says according to your whim. I will do the same thing.
Definition of destroy,

Spoiler

end the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it.
"the room had been destroyed by fire"
synonyms: demolish, knock down, pull down, tear down, level, raze (to the ground), fell, dismantle, break up, wreck, ruin, smash, shatter, crash, blast, blow up, blow to bits/pieces, dynamite, explode, bomb, torpedo More
ruin (someone) emotionally or spiritually.
"he has been determined to destroy her"
defeat (someone) utterly.
"Northants have the batting to destroy anyone"
synonyms: annihilate, wipe out, obliterate, wipe off the face of the earth, wipe off the map, eliminate, eradicate, liquidate, extinguish, finish off, erase, root out, extirpate; More

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He knew it's existence, and said 'destroy' turtle island. And the dictionary definition agrees.

So no feats then?.

Why dont you use common sense and understand what happened there was plot for madara to triumph. Jinton has been stated multiple times to be wide range destructive, muu's statement + onoki statement. So your opinion keep it to yourself, if it didnt happen, it was because onoki didnt use conical jinton. He didnt use cubical jinton against madara and he was exhausted after fighting the war. So he was tired and chakra lacking. So your argument is void.

 

[Exaar]

Why dont you use common sense and understand what happened there was plot for madara to triumph. Jinton has been stated multiple times to be wide range destructive, muu's statement + onoki statement. So your opinion keep it to yourself, if it didnt happen, it was because onoki didnt use conical jinton. He didnt use cubical jinton against madara and he was exhausted after fighting the war. So he was tired and chakra lacking. So your argument is void.

Oh so you don't have any feats? just excuses, ahh i see.

As for him lacking chakra, He was being boosted by tsunade, So there goes your theory

 

[FuriouslAngel]

Onoki>Madara, but Hashirama is in another level

Madara blitzes Onoki

 

[Tyrance sasuke]

Oh so you don't have any feats? just excuses, ahh i see.

As for him lacking chakra, He was being boosted by tsunade, So there goes your theory

Look above, posted the definition of 'destroy' and all the definitions include 'completely annihilating' something. If statements werent proved right, that's called a nerf, especially if it has been stated several times by characters who know what they're talking about. 'Theory'? Mine? Think what you want. Trying to maintain the position of characters arent you? Lmfaoooooooooooo. Clear nerf right there. A debate is something where you reach a conclusion through compiling all facts not just through feats. Why should the director lie lmao. Your theory stands zero value against manga facts. He didnt use conical jinton. And to conpletely destroy your theory, onoki said 'so what, its just a rock' implying onoki thought it was no big deal for him to destroy. For him it seemed small, since his conical jinton can destroy even wider and larger structures so there goes your theory flying. Shame.

 

[Imperious]

Then doesnt it work more against you than for you? If he didnt know about the sentience of the island, he wasnt talking about killing it. So your own logic proves you wrong. You could do all day with your interpretation but manga statements >> your interpretation. Go on and interpret everything any character says according to your whim. I will do the same thing.
Definition of destroy,

Spoiler

end the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it.
"the room had been destroyed by fire"
synonyms: demolish, knock down, pull down, tear down, level, raze (to the ground), fell, dismantle, break up, wreck, ruin, smash, shatter, crash, blast, blow up, blow to bits/pieces, dynamite, explode, bomb, torpedo More
ruin (someone) emotionally or spiritually.
"he has been determined to destroy her"
defeat (someone) utterly.
"Northants have the batting to destroy anyone"
synonyms: annihilate, wipe out, obliterate, wipe off the face of the earth, wipe off the map, eliminate, eradicate, liquidate, extinguish, finish off, erase, root out, extirpate; More

I don't see how his word choice of "destroy" instead of "kill" could work against me, when you were the one to bring up the argument about word choice. Again, and I am getting tired of repeating myself, the word "destroy" is up to interpretation. You can break a cup in half and consider it destroyed, you can completely fragment a cup and consider it destroyed, you can break the handle off of a cup and consider it destroyed. Because obstructing it's intended form in any way would redefine it's existence (i.e: if you break a cup in half, it is no longer a cup, unless you want to refer to it as a broken cup or either half as half of a broken cup, either way you're "ending the existence" of it's meaning). But all of this is completely irrelevant because I never disagreed that he could destroy the island, I only called to question how he would destroy the island. The way you're implying it makes it seems as though Onoki was going to erase the entire island with Dust Release, which isn't true because his Dust Release is not big enough, nor has it ever been shown to be big enough, nor does it even have an AoE that could destroy the island. If it could ever destroy the island, it would be in the same way that a nail can destroy a boulder, compromising it's structure. However, i'm skeptical of even that, because Dust Release does not shatter, it disintegrates, and only a shattering force could compromise the structure of any solid object. Dust Release would just disintegrate clean through it, like a hot knife through butter.​

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[Tyrance sasuke]

I don't see how his word choice of "destroy" instead of "kill" could work against me, when you were the one to bring up the argument about word choice. Again, and I am getting tired of repeating myself, the word "destroy" is up to interpretation. You can break a cup in half and consider it destroyed, you can completely fragment a cup and consider it destroyed, you can break the handle off of a cup and consider it destroyed. Because obstructing it's intended form in any way would redefine it's existence (i.e: if you break a cup in half, it is no longer a cup, unless you want to refer to it as a broken cup or either half as half of a broken cup, either way you're "ending the existence" of it's meaning). But all of this is completely irrelevant because I never disagreed that he could destroy the island, I only called to question how he would destroy the island. The way you're implying it makes it seems as though Onoki was going to erase the entire island with Dust Release, which isn't true because his Dust Release is not big enough, nor has it ever been shown to be big enough, nor does it even have an AoE that could destroy the island. If it could ever destroy the island, it would be in the same way that a nail can destroy a boulder, compromising it's structure. However, i'm skeptical of even that, because Dust Release does not shatter, it disintegrates, and only a shattering force could compromise the structure of any solid object. Dust Release would just disintegrate clean through it, like a hot knife through butter.​

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Why do you keep repeating the same thing again? Destroy isnt just damaging, 'damaging' is the word for partially destroying, 'destroy' is the word for completely annihilating an existence as the above dictionary definition states. So your interpretation is null. It is true he can do that, onoki said 'its just a rock' implying what? He thought it was a menial thing for his jinton to accomplish, cuz akatsuchi has seen him doing various larger destructions and onoki himself knows it hence he flew a far away distance from the island and fought with deidara there.

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He clearly knew and agreed with akatsuchi hence decided to go far away from the island...stop trying so hard.

You dont even know that jinton just has to touch you to disintegrate, do you? You think it has to cover an object to disintengrate?

Spoiler

Jinton

Wind, Earth, Fire, combining three natures for a moment is a "kekkai touta" ninjutsu. With both hands a large amount of chakra is charged and it's form is changed into a cube, cone, cylinder, various three dimensional objects (so it can be more than the ones we saw), and than it's released. Onoki, Mu's disciple, inherited Jinton. If it touches the target they are disintegrated at the molecular-level, defense with any ninja implement or ninjutsu is impossible. A certain death hit.

Enemy or ally, a touch results in disintegration, and so on, rest seems like the same

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Madara cant use absorption with susanoo.

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Deidara sweating at the thought of onoki using jinton. Someone who has village busters himself. Deidara sweating is rare, he didnt even sweat when his hands were torn off and surrounded by team guy, implying someone who doesnt fear death, yet in an edo tensei form, him to sweat despite having an invincible body further proves jinton is capable of higher than island busting through mere touching.

 

[Imperious]

Why do you keep repeating the same thing again? Destroy isnt just damaging, 'damaging' is the word for partially destroying, 'destroy' is the word for completely annihilating an existence as the above dictionary definition states. So your interpretation is null. It is true he can do that, onoki said 'its just a rock' implying what? He thought it was a menial thing for his jinton to accomplish, cuz akatsuchi has seen him doing various larger destructions and onoki himself knows it hence he flew a far away distance from the island and fought with deidara there.

Spoiler

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He clearly knew and agreed with akatsuchi hence decided to go far away from the island...stop trying so hard.

Woah, so the definition went from "End the existence of" to "Annihilate the existence of" :eww:? Because those are two different thing. As I have already stated, and even given a valid example, "destroy" is open to interpretation. "(i.e: if you break a cup in half, it is no longer a cup, unless you want to refer to it as a broken cup or either half as half of a broken cup, either way you're "ending the existence" of it's meaning)". To destroy something does not mean the complete molecular erasure that is implied by Dust Release. But, again, we're arguing an irrelevant matter, because as I already stated, " I never disagreed that he could destroy the island, I only called to question how he would destroy the island. The way you're implying it makes it seems as though Onoki was going to erase the entire island with Dust Release, which isn't true because his Dust Release is not big enough, nor has it ever been shown to be big enough, nor does it even have an AoE that could destroy the island. If it could ever destroy the island, it would be in the same way that a nail can destroy a boulder, compromising it's structure. However, i'm skeptical of even that, because Dust Release does not shatter, it disintegrates, and only a shattering force could compromise the structure of any solid object. Dust Release would just disintegrate clean through it, like a hot knife through butter." And I also already stated as to impugn the validity of Akatsuchi's statement, which seems to unfortunately be your only (thin) standing in this argument, "However, the destruction of the island by Dust Release never happened, so Kitsuchi's statement is more hearsay than a feat with visible evidence." So it doesn't matter how you choose to interpret their conversation as to convenience your own argument, it never happened, and it has never been to shown to be possible given the prior and subsequent size portrayal of Dust Release, nor does it adhere to any form of logic. ​

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[Tyrance sasuke]

Woah, so the definition went from "End the existence of" to "Annihilate the existence of" :eww:? Because those are two different thing. As I have already stated, and even given a valid example, "destroy" is open to interpretation. "(i.e: if you break a cup in half, it is no longer a cup, unless you want to refer to it as a broken cup or either half as half of a broken cup, either way you're "ending the existence" of it's meaning)". To destroy something does not mean the complete molecular erasure that is implied by Dust Release. But, again, we're arguing an irrelevant matter, because as I already stated, " I never disagreed that he could destroy the island, I only called to question how he would destroy the island. The way you're implying it makes it seems as though Onoki was going to erase the entire island with Dust Release, which isn't true because his Dust Release is not big enough, nor has it ever been shown to be big enough, nor does it even have an AoE that could destroy the island. If it could ever destroy the island, it would be in the same way that a nail can destroy a boulder, compromising it's structure. However, i'm skeptical of even that, because Dust Release does not shatter, it disintegrates, and only a shattering force could compromise the structure of any solid object. Dust Release would just disintegrate clean through it, like a hot knife through butter." And I also already stated as to impugn the validity of Akatsuchi's statement, "However, the destruction of the island by Dust Release never happened, so Kitsuchi's statement is more hearsay than a feat with visible evidence." So it doesn't matter how you choose to interpret their conversation as to convenience your own argument, it never happened, and it has never been to shown to be possible given the prior and subsequent size portrayal of Dust Release, nor does it adhere to any form of logic. ​

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No it cannot be twisted as you like, you didnt make the dictionary so follow its rules, it means anything to annihilating to completely wrecking to completely shattering. But none of the meanings even hint towards just 'partially destroying'. Look above, I just edited my post with every proof for proving jinton island busting is legit.

 

[Exaar]

Look above, posted the definition of 'destroy' and all the definitions include 'completely annihilating' something. If statements werent proved right, that's called a nerf, especially if it has been stated several times by characters who know what they're talking about. 'Theory'? Mine? Think what you want. Trying to maintain the position of characters arent you? Lmfaoooooooooooo. Clear nerf right there. A debate is something where you reach a conclusion through compiling all facts not just through feats. Why should the director lie lmao. Your theory stands zero value against manga facts. He didnt use conical jinton. And to conpletely destroy your theory, onoki said 'so what, its just a rock' implying onoki thought it was no big deal for him to destroy. For him it seemed small, since his conical jinton can destroy even wider and larger structures so there goes your theory flying. Shame.

The definition also includes
end the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it. (I.E killing the turtle by attacking it with jinton)
and
wreck, ruin, blast, eliminate, again by blasting it with Jinton
So what's your point? but i guess selective reading is your specialty.

I'm maintaining what's shown cannon feat wise, Jinton has zero feats of doing what you claim. I'm not ignoring cannon feats just because some idiot on NB claims things with zero support other than "it's plot"

 

[Imperious]

He clearly knew and agreed with akatsuchi hence decided to go far away from the island...stop trying so hard.

You dont even know that jinton just has to touch you to disintegrate, do you? You think it has to cover an object to disintengrate?

Spoiler

Jinton

Wind, Earth, Fire, combining three natures for a moment is a "kekkai touta" ninjutsu. With both hands a large amount of chakra is charged and it's form is changed into a cube, cone, cylinder, various three dimensional objects (so it can be more than the ones we saw), and than it's released. Onoki, Mu's disciple, inherited Jinton. If it touches the target they are disintegrated at the molecular-level, defense with any ninja implement or ninjutsu is impossible. A certain death hit.

Enemy or ally, a touch results in disintegration, and so on, rest seems like the same

Spoiler

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Madara cant use absorption with susanoo.

Spoiler

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Deidara sweating at the thought of onoki using jinton. Someone who has village busters himself. Deidara sweating is rare, he didnt even sweat when his hands were torn off and surrounded by team guy, implying someone who doesnt fear death, yet in an edo tensei form, him to sweat despite having an invincible body further proves jinton is capable of higher than island busting through mere touching.

Firstly, Onoki can say that he can destroy the entire world with Dust Release, but that does not make it true until he can prove it, which he has yet to. Secondly, of course Dust Release needs to cover something as big as an island to destroy it. It's not even so much destroying something as it is reassembling the molecules of something. Your logic implies that upon contact with the ground, Dust Release would destroy the entire world, considering that it "only needs to touch it to destroy it" and "doesn't need to cover the entire object". The part about Deidara is irrelevant, and the part about Madara is ignorant, so I won't bother to dignify either with a proper response. Not trying to call you ignorant, of course, that's rude. Just your statement lacks knowledge, so it is by definition ignorant.​

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