[Predictions] One Piece Manga Chapter 848 Discussion and 849 Predictions

[Punk Hazard]

Just because you make the wrong choice doesn't mean it can't turn out beneficial. Also I'm calling out his motives more than the action themselves, that's the difference you're hung up on the action itself whereas I'm hung up on his reasoning and motive.

You're calling out him wanting to prevent his crew from being killed? You're calling out Sanji wanting to avoid:

1. Two Yonko pursuing his crew of 9 people who barely handed a weaker crew than either one individually with help

2. An army so ferocious, extensive, and powerful that they're regarded as a part of legend

3. Their enemies returning to Zou to look for them, a country that was already partially razed to the ground with its citizens still in recovery from torture and the war, with their two strongest fighters/their leaders incapacitated.

Y'all are really a bunch of babies look for anything to ***** about.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Luffy obviously isn't going to let Pudding kill herself so whats next?

 

[Itachi Minato]

You're calling out him wanting to prevent his crew from being killed? You're calling out Sanji wanting to avoid:

1. Two Yonko pursuing his crew of 9 people who barely handed a weaker crew than either one individually with help

2. An army so ferocious, extensive, and powerful that they're regarded as a part of legend

3. Their enemies returning to Zou to look for them, a country that was already partially razed to the ground with its citizens still in recovery from torture and the war, with their two strongest fighters/their leaders incapacitated.

Y'all are really a bunch of babies look for anything to ***** about.

Lol you trying desperately to defend sanji when it's clear sanji has done some stupid things. Luffys not leaving sanji behind no matter what. Your earlier scenario if Nami was injured simple Luffy would get her help then go back. Luffy won't leave sanji behind no matter what kind of deal sanji cuts. I know that, the fans with sense know that so I hope you know that and sanji SHOULD know that. Don't bother with responding with what sanji could do instead because what he HAS done is show he doesn't know his captain.

 

[chopstickchakra]

You're calling out him wanting to prevent his crew from being killed? You're calling out Sanji wanting to avoid:

1. Two Yonko pursuing his crew of 9 people who barely handed a weaker crew than either one individually with help

2. An army so ferocious, extensive, and powerful that they're regarded as a part of legend

3. Their enemies returning to Zou to look for them, a country that was already partially razed to the ground with its citizens still in recovery from torture and the war, with their two strongest fighters/their leaders incapacitated.

Y'all are really a bunch of babies look for anything to ***** about.

How am I "looking for anything" when this is the only thing I've called him out for?

 

[Punk Hazard]

How am I "looking for anything" when this is the only thing I've called him out for?

Because when the alternative is attracting two Yonko and the Germa army towards his crew of 9 and a country with crippled leaders and its fighters largely weakened, you're just crying for being this against his decision.

 

[RJ22BIG]

Lol you trying desperately to defend sanji when it's clear sanji has done some stupid things. Luffys not leaving sanji behind no matter what. Your earlier scenario if Nami was injured simple Luffy would get her help then go back. Luffy won't leave sanji behind no matter what kind of deal sanji cuts. I know that, the fans with sense know that so I hope you know that and sanji SHOULD know that. Don't bother with responding with what sanji could do instead because what he HAS done is show he doesn't know his captain.

You're arguing that sanji did the wrong thing by trying to sacrifice himself via sacrifice the rest of his journey as a pirate to save not only his crew from near certain death against 2 yonkos and the germa and protecting zeff but luffy is doing the same thing he's sacrificing himself and his journey so sanji can remain with the crew but in yet luffy isn't the problem sanji is that very weird. You all are blaming sanji for sacrificing himself to save his loved ones regardless of the means. Luffy wouldn't let anybody die for him he wouldn't let robin sacrifice herself for the crew, zoro even tried to sacrifice his dream for the crew but that was deemed honorable but this isn't smh. Even when zoro offered his life to kuma sanji made sure that the crew never found out because they and luffy especially would've felt terrible and sanji knew zoro didn't do it to be praised. Sanji left Zou with a smile on his face and a cheerful note to make sure the crew didn't think he was in any danger so he could protect them and go handle this. The sad and really stupid part is every one is B****ing because it's sanji if it were luffy or zoro it would be all good and be respected. man I really don't get why sanji gets so much hate for no reason I don't see any other character get bad mouthed and down played and disrespected like sanji.

 

[loj]

Yes that was absolutely wrong what Sanji did pulling off a "Robin" just to save others knowing that Luffy doesn't work like that.Good job Sanji you did well...

Nothing of this wouldn't happen if Sanji was frank and had faith from beginning in SH's.

 

[RJ22BIG]

Yes that was absolutely wrong what Sanji did pulling off a "Robin" just to save others knowing that Luffy doesn't work like that.Good job Sanji you did well...

Nothing of this wouldn't happen if Sanji was frank and had faith from beginning in SH's.

Smh wow so when zoro offered his life to kuma to protect the crew that was the right thing to do but robin and sanji are wrong for doing so please explain to me how that makes sense and while you at it you said this wouldn't have happened if sanji was frank with the crew?

Well from where I'm standing if sanji told the crew from the start zeff dies and the crew is now facing Kaido and his massive crew big mom and her massive crew and an evil mythical army i.e. Germa and the crew might end up dead and maybe I'm crazy but that sounds a billion times worse then the current situation.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Smh wow so when zoro offered his life to kuma to protect the crew that was the right thing to do but robin and sanji are wrong for doing so please explain to me how that makes sense and while you at it you said this wouldn't have happened if sanji was frank with the crew?

Well from where I'm standing if sanji told the crew from the start zeff dies and the crew is now facing Kaido and his massive crew big mom and her massive crew and an evil mythical army i.e. Germa and the crew might end up dead and maybe I'm crazy but that sounds a billion times worse then the current situation.

Don't forget that Zoro also had the same lack of faith in the crew being able to handle two Yonko, and no one said a thing. But when Sanji lacks faith that they can handle two Yonko AND the Germa Army, it's a character flaw. I bet you can find them supporting Zoro's decision in the discussion thread for the chapter where Zoro told Luffy to abandon Sanji because they were too weak to handle two Yonko.

 

[RJ22BIG]

Don't forget that Zoro also had the same lack of faith in the crew being able to handle two Yonko, and no one said a thing. But when Sanji lacks faith that they can handle two Yonko AND the Germa Army, it's a character flaw. I bet you can find them supporting Zoro's decision in the discussion thread for the chapter where Zoro told Luffy to abandon Sanji because they were too weak to handle two Yonko.

Exactly so it isn't really the act itself they all have a problem with or even a lack of faith in luffy and or the crew it is really who it's coming from which is sanji. I've noticed no matter what it is the majority of people will make and take any excuse to disrespect sanji even if it means looking like a hypocrite or even ignorant I will never understand why all the hate and ill will towards sanji smfh. At least be consistent if you hate the act hate it no matter who it comes from whether it be luffy zoro or sanji no just for sanji

 

[Itachi Minato]

You're arguing that sanji did the wrong thing by trying to sacrifice himself via sacrifice the rest of his journey as a pirate to save not only his crew from near certain death against 2 yonkos and the germa and protecting zeff but luffy is doing the same thing he's sacrificing himself and his journey so sanji can remain with the crew but in yet luffy isn't the problem sanji is that very weird. You all are blaming sanji for sacrificing himself to save his loved ones regardless of the means. Luffy wouldn't let anybody die for him he wouldn't let robin sacrifice herself for the crew, zoro even tried to sacrifice his dream for the crew but that was deemed honorable but this isn't smh. Even when zoro offered his life to kuma sanji made sure that the crew never found out because they and luffy especially would've felt terrible and sanji knew zoro didn't do it to be praised. Sanji left Zou with a smile on his face and a cheerful note to make sure the crew didn't think he was in any danger so he could protect them and go handle this. The sad and really stupid part is every one is B****ing because it's sanji if it were luffy or zoro it would be all good and be respected. man I really don't get why sanji gets so much hate for no reason I don't see any other character get bad mouthed and down played and disrespected like sanji.

Lol Sanji is not saving his crew either way. Just answer me this. Would Luffy ever leave Sanji behind? My only problem with Sanji is that he's dumb enough to think Luffy will leave him when he's supposed to be the smartest member of the crew. Even after fighting Luffy he's not realised this. This is why he's being stupid.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Lol Sanji is not saving his crew either way. Just answer me this. Would Luffy ever leave Sanji behind?

You're focusing on the wrong thing. In Sanji decided to tell Capone to **** off and stay on Zou, he'd have attracted the attention of Big Mom to the island. Even Law noted that they needed to consider what it would mean to attract more enemies to Zou while it was still in recovery:

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So Sanji had to choose between two scenarios:

1. Staying behind on Zou, denying the invitation, and attracting the attention of Big Mom and the Germa 66 towards the Strawhats and the weakened and recovering country of Zou; pitting the forces of two Yonko and the Germa army against the Strawhats, which WILL result in their deaths with what we've seen in the story so far

2. Going with Capone towards an island that the Strawhats will have a difficult time finding(it was unlikely that they actually made it to Whole Cake), sparing Zou from further attention(to the best of his knowledge, he had no way of knowing Jack was going to come back to try and kill Zunisha), and diverting Big Mom's attention away from the Strawhats.

And you think the first one was the better option?

 

[chopstickchakra]

Because when the alternative is attracting two Yonko and the Germa army towards his crew of 9 and a country with crippled leaders and its fighters largely weakened, you're just crying for being this against his decision.

That's not looking for anything that's taking issue with one aspect.

 

[Skull Knight]

You're focusing on the wrong thing. In Sanji decided to tell Capone to **** off and stay on Zou, he'd have attracted the attention of Big Mom to the island. Even Law noted that they needed to consider what it would mean to attract more enemies to Zou while it was still in recovery:

Spoiler

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So Sanji had to choose between two scenarios:

1. Staying behind on Zou, denying the invitation, and attracting the attention of Big Mom and the Germa 66 towards the Strawhats and the weakened and recovering country of Zou; pitting the forces of two Yonko and the Germa army against the Strawhats, which WILL result in their deaths with what we've seen in the story so far

2. Going with Capone towards an island that the Strawhats will have a difficult time finding(it was unlikely that they actually made it to Whole Cake), sparing Zou from further attention(to the best of his knowledge, he had no way of knowing Jack was going to come back to try and kill Zunisha), and diverting Big Mom's attention away from the Strawhats.

And you think the first one was the better option?

Why do u think 2nd option is better then first one???
1)It would have taken weeks/months for BM's crew to find Zou unless BM has Capone's or Pekom's vivre card(which I dont think she has). Till that time SH's would have left Zou and Minks would have also recovered from Jack's destruction.

2)Sanji didnot protected his crew from BM's wrath. Luffy has already challenged her back at Fishman Island. Jimbei has left her because of Luffy and now one of his son(who is also a commander in BM's crew) is in hospital again because of Luffy. If BM is not angry then she is not a human.

3)Your analogy that Luffy would never find Cake Island is also dumb since Pekoms and Pedro both knew how to reach Cake island and lets not forget that we are talking about a guy who reached mythical islands like Skypiea, Amazon lily,escaped Impel down,survived a nuke and MF(while fighting Admirals).

4)I dont think 2 Yonko group would collaborate for a common purpose. And their is a good chance that Jack would actually attack BM's crew since they got Ceasar.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Why do u think 2nd option is better then first one???
1)It would have taken weeks/months for BM's crew to find Zou unless BM has Capone's or Pekom's vivre card(which I dont think she has). Till that time SH's would have left Zou and Minks would have also recovered from Jack's destruction.

If that was the case then it wouldn't have been brought up as an issue by one of the most tactical characters in the series. Oda established that Zou is indeed under a threat through not only Law's words, but through Pekoms being grateful that the Strawhats were able to save it and through Jack being able to return to Zou even after it had moved.

2)Sanji didnot protected his crew from BM's wrath. Luffy has already challenged her back at Fishman Island. Jimbei has left her because of Luffy and now one of his son(who is also a commander in BM's crew) is in hospital again because of Luffy. If BM is not angry then she is not a human.

Same thing I said to LBeezy applies to this. Big Mom was already angry at the Strawhats, but she wasn't actively pursuing them. Sanji going to her and striking the deal he did is keeping it that way.

3)Your analogy that Luffy would never find Cake Island is also dumb since Pekoms and Pedro both knew how to reach Cake island and lets not forget that we are talking about a guy who reached mythical islands like Skypiea, Amazon lily,escaped Impel down,survived a nuke and MF(while fighting Admirals).

Was Sanji aware that they would take the Strawhats to Whole Cake? I doubt that.

4)I dont think 2 Yonko group would collaborate for a common purpose. And their is a good chance that Jack would actually attack BM's crew since they got Ceasar.

Who said anything about collaborating? They don't need to collaborate to both be threats to the Strawhats at hte same time.

Again, same mistake Chopstick made. You say that BM having Caesar means Kaido's gang will attack her. BM only has Caesar right now because Sanji DIDN'T tell Capone to **** off and agreed to go with him, which just means there's another benefit to Sanji going the route that he did.

 

[Skull Knight]

If that was the case then it wouldn't have been brought up as an issue by one of the most tactical characters in the series. Oda established that Zou is indeed under a threat through not only Law's words, but through Pekoms being grateful that the Strawhats were able to save it and through Jack being able to return to Zou even after it had moved.

Jack returning back to Zou is either a plothole or someone in Zou is a traitor and Jack has his/her vivre card.

Big Mom was already angry at the Strawhats, but she wasn't actively pursuing them. Sanji going to her and striking the deal he did is keeping it that way.

BB is also not pursing Luffy but when Ace met he said something like lets go and kill SH Luffy(something like that).
I think all the Yonkos except Shanks right now hate Luffy and will try to kill him the moment he step foot on his/her territory.
Sanji only diverted BM's attention from Luffy to the marriage/party thing. I m sure she still wants to kill Luffy once the marriage/tea party is over.

Was Sanji aware that they would take the Strawhats to Whole Cake? I doubt that.

U r still missing the point.
Luffy went after Nami, Robin when they left the crew.
He went to places which are consider as myths.
He escaped places which was constant under observation.
He would have definately went after Sanji.
If I was Sanji I would have expected full SH crew coming for his rescue(since this happened in Arlong arc, Ennies Lobby arc).

Who said anything about collaborating? They don't need to collaborate to both be threats to the Strawhats at hte same time.

Again seeing Jack's personality, I dont think he is going to join hands with BM's crew.
Even someone like Marco didnot accepted Shanks invitation after WB's death.

Again, same mistake Chopstick made. You say that BM having Caesar means Kaido's gang will attack her. BM only has Caesar right now because Sanji DIDN'T tell Capone to **** off and agreed to go with him, which just means there's another benefit to Sanji going the route that he did.

Ok for an instance lets think Jack returned after his mis-adventure in sea and at the same time BM's crew is also there in their respective ships. How long do u thinks they would survive Zunisha's attack???
Zunisha destroyed Jack in one or two attack. I dont think BM's crew would survive that type of attack.

 

[Punk Hazard]

BB is also not pursing Luffy but when Ace met he said something like lets go and kill SH Luffy(something like that).
I think all the Yonkos except Shanks right now hate Luffy and will try to kill him the moment he step foot on his/her territory.
Sanji only diverted BM's attention from Luffy to the marriage/party thing. I m sure she still wants to kill Luffy once the marriage/tea party is over.

Hating Luffy is one thing. But at the moment, only one of them is actually LOOKING for Luffy. Before Big Mom came for Sanji and Caesar, she wasn't actively pursuing the Strawhats. The Strawhats could have sailed for years without fighting Big Mom. If Sanji refused her and incurred her wrath, she would have went from just sitting around to actually pursuing them.

U r still missing the point.
Luffy went after Nami, Robin when they left the crew.
He went to places which are consider as myths.
He escaped places which was constant under observation.
He would have definately went after Sanji.
If I was Sanji I would have expected full SH crew coming for his rescue(since this happened in Arlong arc, Ennies Lobby arc).

That doesn't matter that Luffy will pursue Sanji anyways, Sanji still had to make a decision in that moment. Even if Sanji expected Luffy to come after him, it was very unlikely that Luffy would actually find him. And once Luffy did find him, he immediately went to make a deal as an adjustment to his plan to make sure that Luffy and the others would still be able to sail unharmed. Regardless of it works or not, Sanji still has to do something, and the things he's done are the best possible things he could have in those moments.

Again seeing Jack's personality, I dont think he is going to join hands with BM's crew.
Even someone like Marco didnot accepted Shanks invitation after WB's death.

WHERE DID I SAY THEY WERE JOINING TOGETHER?

Ok for an instance lets think Jack returned after his mis-adventure in sea and at the same time BM's crew is also there in their respective ships. How long do u thinks they would survive Zunisha's attack???
You fail to take into account that Sanji, when he made those decisions, had zero knowledge that Zunisha could do that, and there was no one there at the time who could hear Zunisha and give him permission to attack, so this is irrelevant.

 

[Skull Knight]

Hating Luffy is one thing. But at the moment, only one of them is actually LOOKING for Luffy. Before Big Mom came for Sanji and Caesar, she wasn't actively pursuing the Strawhats. The Strawhats could have sailed for years without fighting Big Mom. If Sanji refused her and incurred her wrath, she would have went from just sitting around to actually pursuing them.

I already said all the Yonko are mad because of Luffy's actions.
They will kill him the moment he is in their radar.
Sanji only diverted BM's attention.
She will definately kill Luffy once the party is over otherwise she would have escorted Luffy and Nami out of Cake island.
And BM can still make connection wit Germa 66 even if Sanji rejected Capone's offer. Pudding can marry any one of the Sanji's brother. I dont think she will waste her resource on finding a guy who is actively revolting against her crew.

That doesn't matter that Luffy will pursue Sanji anyways, Sanji still had to make a decision in that moment. Even if Sanji expected Luffy to come after him, it was very unlikely that Luffy would actually find him. And once Luffy did find him, he immediately went to make a deal as an adjustment to his plan to make sure that Luffy and the others would still be able to sail unharmed. Regardless of it works or not, Sanji still has to do something, and the things he's done are the best possible things he could have in those moments.
You fail to take into account that Sanji, when he made those decisions, had zero knowledge that Zunisha could do that, and there was no one there at the time who could hear Zunisha and give him permission to attack, so this is irrelevant.

@BOLD
See U yourself is not sure if Sanji's decision will work or not. This is what I m sayin, he has made some terrible decisions.
he is not even thinking about how to get out of this mess. He didnot enquired what happened to Luffy and Nami(from Pudding), whether they are safe or not??? What happened to the crew because he didnot saw anyone except Nami and Luffy or where are they???
He knew nothing about Zou's strength(Minks+Zunisha) and left them because Zeff was in danger. He didnot even thought that Luffy is going to come after him(even though Luffy went after Nami and Robin)???
He definately have some trust issues:elmo:

 

[RJ22BIG]

Lol Sanji is not saving his crew either way. Just answer me this. Would Luffy ever leave Sanji behind? My only problem with Sanji is that he's dumb enough to think Luffy will leave him when he's supposed to be the smartest member of the crew. Even after fighting Luffy he's not realised this. This is why he's being stupid.

Luffy will not leave sanji behind but I don't understand how that makes sanji stupid if luffy is stubborn he knows that luffy is stubborn and that is why when he left Zou he was smiling to paint the picture that everything would be alright and even left a note saying he would be back. That's really stupid to believe that sanji trying to protect luffy from himself and protect the crew from total annihilation makes sanji wrong. So I guess zoro was stupid and wrong for pointing out that luffy should leave sanji alone because that would put the crew against 2 yonkos at the same time when they are eventually gonna be hunted dow by kaido for defeating doflamingo. Man I guess trying to talk sense into someone that is stubborn makes the person that is passing the wisdom wrong wow now is crazy.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I already said all the Yonko are mad because of Luffy's actions.
They will kill him the moment he is in their radar.
Sanji only diverted BM's attention.

"Only."

That "only" diverting Big Mom's attention is a pretty big deal, given Big Mom's ferociousness, temper, and the severity of her grudges.

If you can't understand the difference between Big Mom being mad at Luffy, but leaving him alone, and Big Mom pursuing Luffy out of anger, then I can't help you.

She will definately kill Luffy once the party is over otherwise she would have escorted Luffy and Nami out of Cake island.
And BM can still make connection wit Germa 66 even if Sanji rejected Capone's offer. Pudding can marry any one of the Sanji's brother. I dont think she will waste her resource on finding a guy who is actively revolting against her crew.

Big Mom has pursued Caesar when she just SPECULATED that he was double crossing her, and wishes her own daughter to be dead for ruining a huge deal for her. You think she wouldn't pursue a bunch of stranger upstarts who's double crossed and ruined a huge deal for her? She was gonna destroy Fishman Island for failing to act on their deal, and you think she wouldn't bother trying to kill the Strawhats?

@BOLD
See U yourself is not sure if Sanji's decision will work or not. This is what I m sayin, he has made some terrible decisions.

That doesn't matter because the alternative creates a worse situation. Choosing shit over shittier is still a good decision.

he is not even thinking about how to get out of this mess.

He's not doing this anymore. He has no way out of this mess to the best of his knowledge, so why would he?

He didnot enquired what happened to Luffy and Nami(from Pudding), whether they are safe or not???

Is Sanji aware that the army is going after them? For all he knows, they're still just sitting there. He's unaware they're in any danger because of the deal he made with Big Mom. Again, you're saying Sanji's decisions are bad because he's not considering things he has no knowledge of, which is nonsensical.

He knew nothing about Zou's strength(Minks+Zunisha) and left them because Zeff was in danger

He didn't know about this until he got to Whole Cake. He left them on Zou and then left Zou because he didn't want the threat to be towards his crew or the country any further.

He didnot even thought that Luffy is going to come after him(even though Luffy went after Nami and Robin)???
He definately have some trust issues:elmo:

So what? It's retarded to sit around going "Oh no, Luffy and the others will 100% handle this because I like them, even though our enemies are in a totally different league than us."