Sanji doesn't believe in his captain same Robin didn't as well...at least what Sanji should have done is hope and believe Luffy would do something and is sad that Sanji after all this time doesn't know how Luffy act and still doesn't believe in him...Sanji lost his plot and Oda is just making Sanji worse and worse xd the guy in whole Sanji year didn't do shit lmfao
Same question I'm asking LBeezy: Do YOU think the Strawhats can take on the Germa army and the full forces of Big Mom and Kaido all at once? If you don't, why the hell would Sanji think they could? Robin and Zoro both advised against clashing with two Yonko at the same time, with Zoro demanding that Luffy avoid going against two Yonko at the same time. Where's your disappointment in Zoro's and Robin's lack of faith? How come when that chapter came out, you weren't this upset at Zoro having no faith in Luffy taking on Big Mom and Kaido at the same time? I'll wait for what will definitely be a logical answer, I'm sure.
Lmfao you're joking right? How is admitting that the Strawhats can't contend with Germa and two Yonkos all at the same time hating them? Wait...do you think they CAN?
Where was this smart logical Sanji (by your definition) when they went up against the WG at Enies Lobby?
Not the same scenario. The WG was already actively hunting them. Big Mom was not. Even if they declared war on the WG at Enies Lobby, the top tiers of the WG wouldn't actively be hunting them any more than they already were. The same couldn't be said for Big Mom or the Germa Army for that matter.
I literally said in the same post (that he quoted) an alternative..
Yall read much?
Or nah?
If Capone arrived at Zou while Luffy and co. was already there then Capone gets roflstomped and boom story is on a different path.. that f*cking simple b.
So the alternative you're suggesting is for Sanji to have clobbered Capone and cause Big Mom's forces to actively start pursuing them instead of waiting for them, pitting them against two Yonko and possibly the Germa army? And YOU think they can handle that at this point in the story?
Again, this isn't an answer. Me asking "Okay, what do you want Sanji to do so he doesn't look like a pansy" can't be answered by "By not looking like a pansy."
True. Good thing Luffy never did this.
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In the face of an overwhelming enemy, Luffy WOULD leave to fight another day. When they were being overwhelmed on Sabaody, it was Luffy who said they needed to stop worrying about fighting and get away. Sanji is well aware that Luffy can realize when he absolutely has to leave.
Keep em coming, major L for comparing that Buggy scene to the one where Sanji is submitting to Big Mom, about throwing his dream in the trash can and making Pudding happy. He became an obedient slave and had a genuine smile on his face. Terrible comparison.
Sorry but no just no. Luffy is not leaving when it comes to his crewmates. You seriously need to reread One Piece if you think that.
This man went to hell (impel down), died, had to be revived back to life, then he challenged top tiers, the same people he was running away from to protect his crewmates (which you clearly missed), he faced 3 guys on that level directly because they were standing in his way.
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Luffy would stop at nothing, to save a crewmate or friend, a meager Big Mom is nothing to him, he would challenge 4 Yonkous at the same time if he had to.
So yea there are 2 major issues with Sanji right now.
1.His demeanor/depiction about being a slave to someone else/ throwing away his dreams.
2.Him thinking Luffy walking away is an option (this is equivalent to dividing by zero, not possible), despite knowing Luffy so well.
Oda trying to hit us with this Robin level bs again, but it fails extremely hard in this situation. The one who suffers from it is Sanji who is looking like hot trash atm.
I literally said in the same post (that he quoted) an alternative..
Yall read much?
Or nah?
If Capone arrived at Zou while Luffy and co. was already there then Capone gets roflstomped and boom story is on a different path.. that f*cking simple b.
Ah a bit of history manipulation, makes sense. But what if Big mom herself came to Zou double boom ! everyone dead.
Let's stick to the things that actually happened ok ? Because the Capone introduction was a plot device to demonstrate the power of a yonkou. To have him tell us that if you don't accept the invitation your friends' heads will end up in a box.
So by 'roflstomping' Capone, Zeff's head would probably be in a box right now, which defeats the entire purpose of cooperating. The only difference on your path is that you already killed at least Zeff off.
Don't come with crap about reporting in or stealing his den den mushi. If Sanji misses the wedding and Capone is not coming back. ig mom would piece 1 + 1 together.
Same question I'm asking LBeezy: Do YOU think the Strawhats can take on the Germa army and the full forces of Big Mom and Kaido all at once? If you don't, why the hell would Sanji think they could? Robin and Zoro both advised against clashing with two Yonko at the same time, with Zoro demanding that Luffy avoid going against two Yonko at the same time. Where's your disappointment in Zoro's and Robin's lack of faith? How come when that chapter came out, you weren't this upset at Zoro having no faith in Luffy taking on Big Mom and Kaido at the same time? I'll wait for what will definitely be a logical answer, I'm sure.
Lmfao you're joking right? How is admitting that the Strawhats can't contend with Germa and two Yonkos all at the same time hating them? Wait...do you think they CAN?
Not the same scenario. The WG was already actively hunting them. Big Mom was not. Even if they declared war on the WG at Enies Lobby, the top tiers of the WG wouldn't actively be hunting them any more than they already were. The same couldn't be said for Big Mom or the Germa Army for that matter.
Idk about BM "hunting" them.. but anyone in the world could fall under that category since they have bounties on their heads.
Either way BM and the SH's already had beef. Beef that Luffy started on his own free will. Luffy on his own already challenged BM to territory and of course the title of PK.
Luffy already picked this fight. Luffy already didn't like her.
How did Sanji or You for that matter not realize this?
It's beyond me really..
Luffy vs BM is something Luffy ignited on his own before ANY of this shit with Sanji happened.
Same question I'm asking LBeezy: Do YOU think the Strawhats can take on the Germa army and the full forces of Big Mom and Kaido all at once? If you don't, why the hell would Sanji think they could? Robin and Zoro both advised against clashing with two Yonko at the same time, with Zoro demanding that Luffy avoid going against two Yonko at the same time. Where's your disappointment in Zoro's and Robin's lack of faith? How come when that chapter came out, you weren't this upset at Zoro having no faith in Luffy taking on Big Mom and Kaido at the same time? I'll wait for what will definitely be a logical answer, I'm sure.
Lmfao you're joking right? How is admitting that the Strawhats can't contend with Germa and two Yonkos all at the same time hating them? Wait...do you think they CAN?
Not the same scenario. The WG was already actively hunting them. Big Mom was not. Even if they declared war on the WG at Enies Lobby, the top tiers of the WG wouldn't actively be hunting them any more than they already were. The same couldn't be said for Big Mom or the Germa Army for that matter.
It's different,the ideal scenario was not clashing with both but now they commited.Did Robin believe in Luffy at Enies Lobby having whole WG on his ass? Naah...what happened..look Robin is fine hmmmm :wut: Sanji at least should believe in his captain now no matter what.If Zoro was in this situation,would he believe in Luffy? Hands in fire if he wouldn't despite the odds.I mean sure they were not faithful in Luffy since it's 2 yonkos but as far I've seen there's only BM there and besides if Zoro and Robin didn't believe in Luffy they wouldn't have left him "alone" simple as.This just proves despite Luffy going "alone" they still believe in him...
I'd be fine if Sanji believed in Luffy but this is borderline pathetic just giving up...I just hope Oda is tricking us and Sanji has something up his sleeve but if he doesn't Sanji is dropping from my fav list just for being pathetic...
Ah a bit of history manipulation, makes sense. But what if Big mom herself came to Zou double boom ! everyone dead.
Let's stick to the things that actually happened ok ? Because the Capone introduction was a plot device to demonstrate the power of a yonkou. To have him tell us that if you don't accept the invitation your friends' heads will end up in a box.
So by 'roflstomping' Capone, Zeff's head would probably be in a box right now, which defeats the entire purpose of cooperating. The only difference on your path is that you already killed at least Zeff off.
Don't come with crap about reporting in or stealing his den den mushi. If Sanji misses the wedding and Capone is not coming back. ig mom would piece 1 + 1 together.
First of all I like your idea if BM herself went to Zou.. that shit would've been so lit!! xd
But what are you on about "history manipulation"?? Y'all asked me to provide an alternative for the story.. wtf??? Lol I don't get yall.. at all..
If it's MY alternative I can go back to when Sanji joined the crew in East Blue if I wanted to..
"Capone demonstrating the power of a Yonkou" is BS cause it would never be as good as Oda demonstrating the power of a Yonkou when he introduced Kaido, and Shanks in the new world.. sooooo yeah.
If Zeff died.. then great. Some awesome character development for Sanji. No problems here.
My alternative and even your alternative would both be better for Sanji's character IMO as of now..
Although I am still on the side of hoping that Oda has Sanji do something legendary af by the end of this arc. I really want it to happen.. and I highly think it will.
Keep em coming, major L for comparing that Buggy scene to the one where Sanji is submitting to Big Mom, about throwing his dream in the trash can and making Pudding happy. He became an obedient slave and had a genuine smile on his face. Terrible comparison.
You heard it here first folks. It's worse for Luffy to submit smiling to Buggy for no reason than for Sanji to submit to a Yonko to save his crew and master.
Also, lol at "genuine smile." You clearly didn't understand that scene in the slightest. That happiness was anything but genuine or natural, considering Sanji had to force himself into that mood.
Sorry but no just no. Luffy is not leaving when it comes to his crewmates. You seriously need to reread One Piece if you think that.
If shit REALLY hit the fan, he would. You think if Nami was on the edge of death, Luffy would continue to stay there and let her die to take Sanji back, or would he leave so Nami could get help and regroup?
This man went to hell (impel down), died, had to be revived back to life, then he challenged top tiers, the same people he was running away from to protect his crewmates (which you clearly missed), he faced 3 guys on that level directly because they were standing in his way.
You're saying this like these are smart decisions. Luffy almost died in every single one of these situations and was only saved by blind luck. The crew trained for the two years to get rid of their habit on relying on nothing but dumb luck, but you think Sanji should have fallen back on that way of thinking, and just put his crew in complete danger that they aren't ready for and hope for the best. And then you complain that he's developing backwards and being stupid. Makes logic.
Luffy would stop at nothing, to save a crewmate or friend, a meager Big Mom is nothing to him, he would challenge 4 Yonkous at the same time if he had to.
Again, just because an actual retard like Luffy would do it doesn't mean it's what they SHOULD do. Just because Luffy would lose his senses and rush into a scenario where he can't survive, doesn't mean the other Strawhats should approach such situations in the same manner. That will only lead to the utter destruction of the crew. Luffy also decided it was a good idea to eat severely poisonous fish, I suppose if Sanji stopped him from doing that, he'd be retarded for not having faith in Luffy's dumb luck, right?
So yea there are 2 major issues with Sanji right now.
1.His demeanor/depiction about being a slave to someone else/ throwing away his dreams.
If it isn't submit to Big Mom, if it isn't fight back, then what is it? And no, "not looking like a pansy" isn't an answer, especially when Sanji WAS not being a "pansy" about it, Zeff was dragged into the danger. But I bet you DID forget that when this started, Sanji was fighting back and rebelling the entire time and it wasn't until Zeff's life was threatened that he submitted.
***** what? Big Mom wasn't pursuing them. As in, she wasn't sending people to get the Strawhats. I'll explain more below.
Either way BM and the SH's already had beef. Beef that Luffy started on his own free will. Luffy on his own already challenged BM to territory and of course the title of PK.
Luffy already picked this fight. Luffy already didn't like her.
They had bad blood yes, but that bad blood wasn't causing their paths to cross. Big Mom wasn't going after them. She wasn't sending people for them. Luffy and the others could have sailed for ten whole years and then went and confronted Big Mom on their own time if they wanted to. Sanji pissing off Big Mom would have changed that and caused her to be ACTIVELY pursuing them. There's a major difference between that, and Big Mom just sitting around waiting for them to show up to her on their own time.
Lmfao Riker you're confused. His actions aren't even the issue here. It's his depiction, and it's his thought process. Understand that, then quote me again, until then. Peace.
They had bad blood yes, but that bad blood wasn't causing their paths to cross. Big Mom wasn't going after them. She wasn't sending people for them. Luffy and the others could have sailed for ten whole years and then went and confronted Big Mom on their own time if they wanted to. Sanji pissing off Big Mom would have changed that and caused her to be ACTIVELY pursuing them. There's a major difference between that, and Big Mom just sitting around waiting for them to show up to her on their own time.
Lmfao Riker you're confused. His actions aren't even the issue here. It's his depiction, and it's his thought process. Understand that, then quote me again, until then. Peace.
How is that thought process wrong? How is his depiction illogical and negative WITHIN the context of the situation? Because so far, you have failed to answer the former at all, and you've answered the latter by stupidly removing the situation from the greater context.
Read it again. It's sad when you think about it; he was pretty much forcing himself to be happy or ("lovely dovely") in this situation. He even said that he shouldn't be so gloomy right before that.
The year of Sanji ends in march if im correct. A whole year dedicated for a character has already went past the 9 month mark and that character is still taking L's?
I actually like Sanji but at this point the only way he can redeem himself and become the badass cook again is if he kicks Kaido in the face, that or beating Zoro but we all know thats not happening.
Decent chapter, Sanji again wastes panel space and Oda's fine ink.
I literally said in the same post (that he quoted) an alternative..
Yall read much?
Or nah?
If Capone arrived at Zou while Luffy and co. was already there then Capone gets roflstomped and boom story is on a different path.. that f*cking simple b.
To be fair you must've missed the part where Pekoms said if you refuse the tea party invitation a few days later sanji would get a gift with a severed head in it Capone shows up luffy and co beat him down zeff dies or Capone shows up to luffy and co and tells sanji that zeff will die and sanji would still end up going so either way we would still basically be in the same position we are in now just probably worse off.
There's a difference between faith and suicidally deluded. How is it at ALL realistic for Sanji to think that Luffy and the others are ready to handle Kaido, Big Mom, and the Germa Army all at once? Again, even Zoro was saying they needed to wisen the hell up and realize that they weren't ready for two Yonko, and this is without the knowledge of the Germa Army, so WHY would Sanji think for a second they could handle all three?
Yea exactly why they should have stayed together. I get its his family and he had to resolve this but the crew splitting up isn't exactly a great move when you have 2 Yonko's focus right at ya.. Yea it will turn out alright in the end but I'm just not used to Sanji acting like this He doesn't really seem to believe in himself anymore.
No one is saying they can handle 2 yonko at once. But because of his actions they are right in a position where 2 Yonko can indeed attack them at once, if he stayed with Luffy the SH's could focus on 1 at a time, there is no reason to believe One Yonko would invade another Yonko's territory too chase some pirates.
To be fair you must've missed the part where Pekoms said if you refuse the tea party invitation a few days later sanji would get a gift with a severed head in it Capone shows up luffy and co beat him down zeff dies or Capone shows up to luffy and co and tells sanji that zeff will die and sanji would still end up going so either way we would still basically be in the same position we are in now just probably worse off.
I don't think we would be in the same position at all.
I did address that point though in a post after the One you quoted.. if Zeff died it would just be room for some great Sanji character development.
As a matter of fact if things happened the way I mentioned, the probability and chances of Big Mom and Kaido being intertwined are much higher and that could benefit the SH's immensely, considering BM and Kaido are enemies as well..
I was just saying that things didn't have to go down this route making Sanji's character look so bad like this.. but like I keep saying, Oda is probably doing all of this with the intention of having Sanji do something really epic by the end of this arc to redeem himself..
I seriously do not get what the fuss is all about. Sanji is just being Sanji. This thread reminds me of Fairy Tail where people continuously complain because they had nonsensical and irrational expectations that never had much credibility, but then blame someone else (the author, character, series) when those unrealistic expectations aren't met.
That this was going to be the year of Sanji was, if you think rationally about it, never going to mean that Sanji suddenly becomes the main protagonist of the series and that Oda was going to change the very essence of his character. For that Sanji has been a part of this series for far too long and changing that now would make the Sanji we have all known feel like a lie. What could be changed however, was the way how we perceived that same character. What was originally just a random kitchen aid on a ship that coincidently bonded with a cook-pirate, and hence his entire cooking-theme was rather 'coincidental' likewise, is now the son of a tyrannical mercenary-king who tried to beat the cook out of Sanji on a daily basis, the thing that made Sanji feel connected with his mother the most. So Sanji's cooking is at the same time something that honors his mother as something that's a sign of rebellion against his father and siblings. This does not change anything inherent to Sanji's character as this always had been the case, we were just not aware of it. But because we now know more about him, our perception is altered.
Also one does not have to be at the center of everything to be a key figure of the plot. You can be sure that when all this is over and the Strawhats are reunited again, Sanji will be like he always was. Not to mention the climax is approaching. 'Tomorrow' is the wedding. A bomb is going to explode, Capone is potentially rebelling, then you have the unknown factors of Jinbei and Pudding and on top of all of that you have the Strawhats whose speciality is unpredictability and adaptability. This all could result in a variety of scenario's, from Big Mum becoming grateful to the Strawhats to BM being beaten. One thing is certain though: pandemonium is coming and Sanji is going to be at the heart of it.
So that people are now complaining about stuff Sanji has always been doing, is nonsensical. The only thing that bothered me personally, is the fact that Sanji was supposed to be one of the more intelligent Strawhats who is well aware of the other members' personalities and quirks. So that he believed that leaving a letter behind would have been enough to keep Luffy calm and then becomes surprised when he pops up, was rather preposterous.
I seriously do not get what the fuss is all about. Sanji is just being Sanji. This thread reminds me of Fairy Tail where people continuously complain because they had nonsensical and irrational expectations that never had much credibility, but then blame someone else (the author, character, series) when those unrealistic expectations aren't met.
That this was going to be the year of Sanji was, if you think rationally about it, never going to mean that Sanji suddenly becomes the main protagonist of the series and that Oda was going to change the very essence of his character. For that Sanji has been a part of this series for far too long and changing that now would make the Sanji we have all known feel like a lie. What could be changed however, was the way how we perceived that same character. What was originally just a random kitchen aid on a ship that coincidently bonded with a cook-pirate, and hence his entire cooking-theme was rather 'coincidental' likewise, is now the son of a tyrannical mercenary-king who tried to beat the cook out of Sanji on a daily basis, the thing that made Sanji feel connected with his mother the most. So Sanji's cooking is at the same time something that honors his mother as something that's a sign of rebellion against his father and siblings. This does not change anything inherent to Sanji's character as this always had been the case, we were just not aware of it. But because we now know more about him, our perception is altered.
Also one does not have to be at the center of everything to be a key figure of the plot. You can be sure that when all this is over and the Strawhats are reunited again, Sanji will be like he always was. Not to mention the climax is approaching. 'Tomorrow' is the wedding. A bomb is going to explode, Capone is potentially rebelling, then you have the unknown factors of Jinbei and Pudding and on top of all of that you have the Strawhats whose speciality is unpredictability and adaptability. This all could result in a variety of scenario's, from Big Mum becoming grateful to the Strawhats to BM being beaten. One thing is certain though: pandemonium is coming and Sanji is going to be at the heart of it.
So that people are now complaining about stuff Sanji has always been doing, is nonsensical. The only thing that bothered me personally, is the fact that Sanji was supposed to be one of the more intelligent Strawhats who is well aware of the other members' personalities and quirks. So that he believed that leaving a letter behind would have been enough to keep Luffy calm and then becomes surprised when he pops up, was rather preposterous.
The only thing that bothered me personally, is the fact that Sanji was supposed to be one of the more intelligent Strawhats who is well aware of the other members' personalities and quirks. So that he believed that leaving a letter behind would have been enough to keep Luffy calm and then becomes surprised when he pops up, was rather preposterous.
I agree with this part completely. Makes no sense for Sanji to be surprised that his own captain came to rescue him knowing who Luffy is and how is feels about his crew, so to think that everything would be okay with a simple letter is ridiculous, and goes back to my other point of Sanji handling this differently.
