Optimistic
Kage in the Making 👑
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And thus the masturbating begins a new.
NB Team Debate League Round 2: Turnt Up vs Senko
- Thread starter Edo Odin
- Start date
Anub
Jōnin Strategist 🧠
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Just make sure he doesn't post 1 hour before the deadline, because we need time to counter as well. Unless the extension in given and we get a few extra hours.
Izuna Kakashi Senju
Anbu Operative 🎭
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Just moving this back up.
SasoriOfTheRedSaand
Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
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Team Two
Team Two
Team Two
Team Two
First of all, I would like to point out that while having ear communicators is a handy tactic, I don’t believe it’s necessary in this match up. They would have been useful if the 6POP, or ourselves adopted a surprise/sneak method, but that’s not what we’re aiming for, meaning, that’s pretty much useless. Every thing my team does, your team will know full well what’s coming; unfortunately though, they cannot do a damn thing to stop it. I also love how you slightly changed our formation, which shouldn’t even be possible, since by us having the first move, we pretty much decide how the match is going to start, as well as go down. I’ll play along though, not that it makes a difference.
You seem to have great confidence in Neji’s Kaiten, which is understandable. However, we have means of overcoming his so called ultimate defence. Lets rewind back to the Chuunin exams for a second; in Naruto and Neji’s fight, it was shown that brute force and power is able to stop the spinning [
Lee on the other hand, would prove to be a more difficult opponent. I couldn’t help but notice you thinking Neji and Lee just avoid their summons and just one shot animal path off the bird... what a ridiculous thing to say. You seem to be forgetting, the OP granted us knowledge on your teams’ battle with Kisame, meaning, we have knowledge on the 6 gates! [
With Neji out of the picture, Lee must handle the animals by himself, which is something he just cannot do. You see, we know full well that Lee is close range combatant, so we know to keep our distance, and to stay as far away from him as possible. After that, we’re going to summon the unstoppable: Cerberus. Nagato makes it pretty clear here, when he names the prerequisites for eliminating the multiplying hound [
We are also able to summon pretty much as many creatures as we want, and you know why? Because our puppeteer is none other than Nagato Uzumaki, and because of his lineage, we’re granted with virtually unparalleled chakra [
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First of all, I would like to point out that while having ear communicators is a handy tactic, I don’t believe it’s necessary in this match up. They would have been useful if the 6POP, or ourselves adopted a surprise/sneak method, but that’s not what we’re aiming for, meaning, that’s pretty much useless. Every thing my team does, your team will know full well what’s coming; unfortunately though, they cannot do a damn thing to stop it. I also love how you slightly changed our formation, which shouldn’t even be possible, since by us having the first move, we pretty much decide how the match is going to start, as well as go down. I’ll play along though, not that it makes a difference.
You seem to have great confidence in Neji’s Kaiten, which is understandable. However, we have means of overcoming his so called ultimate defence. Lets rewind back to the Chuunin exams for a second; in Naruto and Neji’s fight, it was shown that brute force and power is able to stop the spinning [
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]/[
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]. Luckily for us, we possess the very creature capable of overcoming Neji’s troublesome spin: The drill bird. First, I would like you to take note of its humungous size and near unstoppable force [
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]; notice it was able to send Gamaken tumbling over. What I’m trying to get at here is, if Kaiten is vulnerable to sheer power, then the Drill bird is capable of ploughing through it. Not only is Gamaken, as well as the bird hundreds of times heavier than Neji, but its aerial capabilities allow it to conjure the necessary speed to further augment the assaults destructive force. Honestly, if Naruto's power is enough to get through it, and even mess up Neji a little, then the bird should have no issue counteracting Neji's bigger part II Kaiten; the principle remains. Once Kaiten is broken through, Neji should be in no state to fight. If that doesn’t deal with him (which it should), then the animal path goes onto to finish him off with these behemoths... [
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].Lee on the other hand, would prove to be a more difficult opponent. I couldn’t help but notice you thinking Neji and Lee just avoid their summons and just one shot animal path off the bird... what a ridiculous thing to say. You seem to be forgetting, the OP granted us knowledge on your teams’ battle with Kisame, meaning, we have knowledge on the 6 gates! [
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]. Meaning, we know exactly just how fast Lee can be, so we’re going to take the safe route and go airborne, straight away. Please do not give me the Lee just blitzes nonsense, as not only does he have to remove his weights [
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], but he must also activate the 6 gates. By the time he does that, he can expect to see Animal path hovering in the skies, along with Hell and Deva, who we’re going to keep an extra eye on due to their value to the team. Once we’re in the skies, it’s more or less over. Even if he doesn't remove the weights, and just uses the gates, he won't get it done by the time Animal puts his palm on the ground and takes to the skies.With Neji out of the picture, Lee must handle the animals by himself, which is something he just cannot do. You see, we know full well that Lee is close range combatant, so we know to keep our distance, and to stay as far away from him as possible. After that, we’re going to summon the unstoppable: Cerberus. Nagato makes it pretty clear here, when he names the prerequisites for eliminating the multiplying hound [
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]. However, as I stated earlier, we know what the gates are capable of, so we know not to engage him in CQC. When Lee squares off against Cerberus, he has no choice but to strike it with his Taijutsu, but he’s only going to cause it to keep on multiplying. After a while Lee is bound to get exhausted, and with Ceberus approaching him from many angles [
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], I’m failing to see how Lee can overcome this. His form of fighting is pretty much useless against the hound, and Animal path is going to be completely out of his range. Once Lee starts to fall to fatigue, he gets mauled to death. If not, the Hell realm removes his soul, and that’d be the end of that. Animal has a wide range of summons, most carrying the tools to pick of a tired Lee.We are also able to summon pretty much as many creatures as we want, and you know why? Because our puppeteer is none other than Nagato Uzumaki, and because of his lineage, we’re granted with virtually unparalleled chakra [
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]. We can easily provide the two vulnerable paths (Deva & Hell) with defensive summons of their own, so they needn’t worry about the other two. In fact, they can be flying along with Animal, whether it be shotgun, or separately. Any of Neji's ranged air palms is completely shaken off by the defensive Panda [
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]Team One, and stalling the inevitable
Team One, and stalling the inevitable
Team One, and stalling the inevitable
Team One, and stalling the inevitable
First off, I would like to begin by saying
Tenten simply doesn’t have the speed to avoid missiles approaching her at not only rapid fire, but from different angles, producing explosions with a fairly large AoE [
It’s as I said earlier, we have knowledge on Gai’s extreme speed in the 6th gate, so approaching him up front is a terrible idea. Instead, we’re going to borrow a chameleon from the Animal path. Yes, Neji can see us, but guiding Gai towards our whereabouts while being constantly pressured by our barrages of summons simply isn’t going to work out. To Gai, we’re just undetectable [
First off, I would like to begin by saying
- Even with warning, Tenten is still going to get pasted off the get go.
- Neji will be dead before long, so warning them will not last long, as I’ve shown up top.
Tenten simply doesn’t have the speed to avoid missiles approaching her at not only rapid fire, but from different angles, producing explosions with a fairly large AoE [
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]. Needless to say, a mid-long range fighter such as herself doesn’t do well at facing rapid fire, so she’s pretty much getting pasted right off the get go; leaving Gai to deal with the other three. It would also help if you used facts from the manga instead of ultimate’s from Naruto games...It’s as I said earlier, we have knowledge on Gai’s extreme speed in the 6th gate, so approaching him up front is a terrible idea. Instead, we’re going to borrow a chameleon from the Animal path. Yes, Neji can see us, but guiding Gai towards our whereabouts while being constantly pressured by our barrages of summons simply isn’t going to work out. To Gai, we’re just undetectable [
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], and the moment Neji even tells Gai where we are, we can move positions. Unlike Jiraiya, team Gai doesn't have a barrier, so it’s going to be all the more difficult. While remaining camouflaged, Asura can release his catastrophic chakra blast towards Gai, which held enough force to disarray an entire area [
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]. This should blow Gai to smithereens, but not that it matters.Team One, and stalling the inevitable
Team One, and stalling the inevitable
Through all this, the heart of the 6POP returns...
Through all this, the heart of the 6POP returns...
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Anub
Jōnin Strategist 🧠
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First of all, what’s with all the pictures and stuff? You guys got different fonts, subtitles, pictures that have nothing to do with the argument, just to show off you can google your character… what happened to debates since I left?
Now to get to the point. Dr. Proof’s “argument” (you will notice I used the quotes) does not stand. It starts off as fiction and ends as fiction. So you split your paths into 2 groups. Ok, I accept that. But what’s with the splitting of our group? If you’re mentioning our group and suggesting they would DO the actions you have them doing, what’s the point in debating? I find it very convenient for you guys to split us up and pick us apart… but it won’t happen.
To get to your titles (Dr. Proof): what’s with the “beginning of pain/end of pain”? It sounds like chapters from some random manga. My counter argument to you is that team Guy will not split into 2. That’s it. That should ruin your whole story. Draegod’s got one version in which we could win, here’s mine.
Now before I start this argument, I’d like to let the judges know that team Guy has a rather small chance of winning (it’s true). It’s 4 vs 6 … and those 6 are linked… but either way, I will do my best to prove that our guys have a higher chance of winning than anyone thought they would!
So let’s start countering SOTRS. Dear SOTRS, if you start the argument, doesn’t mean that your team attacks first. Unless stated in the VS notes, your team does not attack first! In fact, it says that team Guy is ANGRY (key word) and thus most likely to attack first. With that being said, also note the fact that the state of mind is “in character” (another key word), because if Pain destroyed Konoha, the paths will be exactly as they were against Naruto (VERY VERY VERY overconfident and with their guards down). This is all stated in the OP and it is pretty much a fact in this fight, which you seemed to have ignored so far. So the battlefield will be calm and Pain will wait for us to make the first move, or maybe try a sneak attack like he did against Naruto. With that being said, let me provide you with our plan #2:
The distance provided is 15 meters … so this means we’re quite close. Our first move is to allow Gai and Lee to enter in their best forms and we’ll be doing this with TenTen summoning some ninja tools and firing them towards Neji, who will use kaiten (
Now let’s understand what knowledge we’ve got on your team. We know that:
Tendō allows a person to manipulate both attractive and repulsive forces.
Shuradō endows a person with mechanical limbs, artillery and armor.
Ningendō allows a person to read a mind of any target, which removes its soul.
Chikushōdō allows a person to summon a wide variety of creatures.
Gakidō allows a person to absorb all forms of chakra, including most Ninjutsu.
Jigokudō allows a person to summon and control the King of Hell: an unearthly being that can remove or restore the life-force of an individual.
So we know which paths to target and which paths target later.
The weapons bolster by an adjusted Hakkeshō Kaiten, sends the weapons traveling simultaneously at a high velocity that should be difficult to see towards the Six Paths. Tendō cannot use Banshō Ten'in or Shinra Tensei to repel or attract the weapons, so Gai-Han will expect Chikushōdō to summon a creature. If done, Tenten will cautiously aim to strike the concentric circles and pupils of the summons. During Tenten’s process of upsetting the link between summon and caster, Gai will throw Neji using the benefits of Keimon at the Six Paths. Lee and Gai advance.
While thrown, the moment Neji enters the vicinity of the Six Paths he will immediately use Jūkenpō Ichigekishin (
Neji swiftly progresses towards Jigokudō, and Tenten practices Bashōsen Kaze no Maki against Shuradō. It is during this timeframe that Gai attacks Ningendō with a combination of Geki — Konoha Kongōriki Senpū ,(
Augmented by Tomon, Lee exercises his Strong Fist and various techniques like Konoha Senpū (
These occurrences happen instantly at the moment of Gai-Han’s realization of the appearance of the Path bodies, which are immediately.
(compliments to Varrah for this plan. His voice in this match-up will be heard!)
Now back to countering SOTRS: You assume that the creature will be summoned on time. Keep in mind that WE should attack first (not because I would like to, but because the state of mind of the characters) and I’ll also assume that you don’t start with your summons already around you because that’s too OP to begin with… Going by the plan we’ve just had, right at the beginning, you won’t have time to summon anything, as you will be backing off and trying to protect yourselves. Now let’s also consider how much Neji has progressed since part I. And with him being a genius, he would know that his weakness against Naruto could be used against him sometimes in the future so that dent in his defense SHOULD be covered. Even so, let’s assume that Neji’s defense is TOO WEAK for the bird? Ok, so what? Is Neji alone of the battlefield? Will the others stay idle until the bird is summoned, takes flight, gathers some distance and speed and then crushes into Neji? Nope, Most likely we’ve got Ten Ten using the Fan to destroy whatever she can from your team (including summons) and we’ve seen that she’s capable of doing it (
Now further on, you mention that your team has got knowledge on us. That’s true… but having knowledge of “Guy being very fast” does not mean that you will know EXACTLY HOW fast he is and it also doesn’t mean that you will be able to anticipate him! Remember that Pain had knowledge on Sage mode as well and look how that turned out as the fight begun vs Naruto … And they have yet to meet gate #7 snd #8. And as I’ve mentioned earlier, your team will not have time to summon because they will be attacked from the get-go! You will most likely retreat, not hang around and get hurt by the fan/ ninja weapons.
Your plans has Neji failing and the rest being idle around him. I pointed out that this is NOT the case so there’s not much to counter there. A few mentions: you keep assuming you’re free to summon whoever you want and no one will attack the summoner … this isn’t a very likely scenario. Having basic knowledge on your team allows us to know which paths to fear the most and we’ll attack the summoner I assure you!
Good for you bringing Nagato into this, but that’s all you can do with him… mention him. Because you’re not allowed to use him (as weird as that sounds) because this is strictly the 6 paths and we’ll consider destroying them as the final point. I would also like for you to consider the same thing and assume Nagato doesn’t exist or that he’s only a shadow.
Now for your 2nd Title, I find it weird that you brought nothing new. You keep clinging to those summons and you seem to think that Guy can only go up to 6 gates for some reason, that Neji is dead, TenTen is fodder and cannot attack and Lee is exhausted very easily… This is the most I’ve seen my team being underestimated in a VS match…
I am beginning to get tired and my eyes hurt so I will keep it shorter than intended (my team mate will finish what I’ve started though).
I’d like to end this by discussing our most important WEAPON/SHINOBI: Guy with his 8 gates.
What can Guy do?
Pain has no information on the 7th Gate, nor the Hirudora (
What will he be able to do in the 8th Gate?
I know you want to avoid this argument, but it’s part of the debate so you cannot. Guy can and WILL enter his 8th Gate, thus sacrificing himself for the good of his team. What do we know about the gate? “The Gate of Death (死門, Shimon), located at the heart. Releasing this gate uses up all of the body's energy. It makes the heart pump at maximum power and exceeds the power of every other gate. Opening this gate gives the user power that is even beyond the five Kage, but comes at the expense of the user's life shortly after.”
So in short, it’s a HUGE burst of power unmeasured, but enormous enough to surpass the Kage and it’s an improvement from gate number 7. So Let’s imagine Guy in his 6th gate. He was fast and resulted in an almost instant win against Kisame’s clone. Guy’s 7th gate: an instant win against Kisame’s full power! Guy’s 8th gate will be more than any of the paths can handle that’s for sure, but my guess: instant destruction of whichever paths he will decide to target. My guess, we’ll start with Animal, Deva, and then work our way around the rest.
I’m too tired to write more stuff. I guess this will have to do. I will edit this for the judges if they wish to read it easier (as in bold a few words, space out sentences).
Now to get to the point. Dr. Proof’s “argument” (you will notice I used the quotes) does not stand. It starts off as fiction and ends as fiction. So you split your paths into 2 groups. Ok, I accept that. But what’s with the splitting of our group? If you’re mentioning our group and suggesting they would DO the actions you have them doing, what’s the point in debating? I find it very convenient for you guys to split us up and pick us apart… but it won’t happen.
To get to your titles (Dr. Proof): what’s with the “beginning of pain/end of pain”? It sounds like chapters from some random manga. My counter argument to you is that team Guy will not split into 2. That’s it. That should ruin your whole story. Draegod’s got one version in which we could win, here’s mine.
Now before I start this argument, I’d like to let the judges know that team Guy has a rather small chance of winning (it’s true). It’s 4 vs 6 … and those 6 are linked… but either way, I will do my best to prove that our guys have a higher chance of winning than anyone thought they would!
So let’s start countering SOTRS. Dear SOTRS, if you start the argument, doesn’t mean that your team attacks first. Unless stated in the VS notes, your team does not attack first! In fact, it says that team Guy is ANGRY (key word) and thus most likely to attack first. With that being said, also note the fact that the state of mind is “in character” (another key word), because if Pain destroyed Konoha, the paths will be exactly as they were against Naruto (VERY VERY VERY overconfident and with their guards down). This is all stated in the OP and it is pretty much a fact in this fight, which you seemed to have ignored so far. So the battlefield will be calm and Pain will wait for us to make the first move, or maybe try a sneak attack like he did against Naruto. With that being said, let me provide you with our plan #2:
The distance provided is 15 meters … so this means we’re quite close. Our first move is to allow Gai and Lee to enter in their best forms and we’ll be doing this with TenTen summoning some ninja tools and firing them towards Neji, who will use kaiten (
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), will spread those tools in the direction of the paths, thus rendering them unable to attack while my team retreats. It will look something like this:
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.Now let’s understand what knowledge we’ve got on your team. We know that:
Tendō allows a person to manipulate both attractive and repulsive forces.
Shuradō endows a person with mechanical limbs, artillery and armor.
Ningendō allows a person to read a mind of any target, which removes its soul.
Chikushōdō allows a person to summon a wide variety of creatures.
Gakidō allows a person to absorb all forms of chakra, including most Ninjutsu.
Jigokudō allows a person to summon and control the King of Hell: an unearthly being that can remove or restore the life-force of an individual.
So we know which paths to target and which paths target later.
The weapons bolster by an adjusted Hakkeshō Kaiten, sends the weapons traveling simultaneously at a high velocity that should be difficult to see towards the Six Paths. Tendō cannot use Banshō Ten'in or Shinra Tensei to repel or attract the weapons, so Gai-Han will expect Chikushōdō to summon a creature. If done, Tenten will cautiously aim to strike the concentric circles and pupils of the summons. During Tenten’s process of upsetting the link between summon and caster, Gai will throw Neji using the benefits of Keimon at the Six Paths. Lee and Gai advance.
While thrown, the moment Neji enters the vicinity of the Six Paths he will immediately use Jūkenpō Ichigekishin (
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) to rebuff the Paths bodies. As the Paths stagger, Lee immediately uses a Tomon powered Omote Renge to further push the Path bodies into the air. Lee as according to the stratagem holds his position while the advancing Gai launches Neji into the air once more. Neji uses Hakke Rokujūyon Shō (
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) to strike the Chikushōdō’s tenketsu within its circulatory system; prohibiting it from summoning creatures.Neji swiftly progresses towards Jigokudō, and Tenten practices Bashōsen Kaze no Maki against Shuradō. It is during this timeframe that Gai attacks Ningendō with a combination of Geki — Konoha Kongōriki Senpū ,(
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) and Koyubi Kōgeki,(
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) the speed and power of Keimon should monstrously incapacitate Ningendō almost instantly, if wavered, Gai will bind the first combination of Geki — Konoha Kongōriki Senpū and Koyubi Kōgeki with a mixture of several other assaults such as Konoha Kaiganshō (
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) and Konoha Gōriki Senpū (
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) in conjunction with his Sōshūga, which heightens the versatility of his Taijutsu; Lee—during Gai’s skirmish—attacks Gakidō.Augmented by Tomon, Lee exercises his Strong Fist and various techniques like Konoha Senpū (
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), Konoha Shōfū (
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), and Konoha Daisenpū (
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) to swiftly neutralize Gakidō. Jigokudō, during his fight with Neji, should make attacks to grab him; if he does, Neji will use Jūkenpō Ichigekishin (
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) to force Jigokudō back and Hakke Kūshō (
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) to offset the body followed by Hakke Rokujūyon Shō (
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) if necessary. These occurrences happen instantly at the moment of Gai-Han’s realization of the appearance of the Path bodies, which are immediately.
(compliments to Varrah for this plan. His voice in this match-up will be heard!)
Now back to countering SOTRS: You assume that the creature will be summoned on time. Keep in mind that WE should attack first (not because I would like to, but because the state of mind of the characters) and I’ll also assume that you don’t start with your summons already around you because that’s too OP to begin with… Going by the plan we’ve just had, right at the beginning, you won’t have time to summon anything, as you will be backing off and trying to protect yourselves. Now let’s also consider how much Neji has progressed since part I. And with him being a genius, he would know that his weakness against Naruto could be used against him sometimes in the future so that dent in his defense SHOULD be covered. Even so, let’s assume that Neji’s defense is TOO WEAK for the bird? Ok, so what? Is Neji alone of the battlefield? Will the others stay idle until the bird is summoned, takes flight, gathers some distance and speed and then crushes into Neji? Nope, Most likely we’ve got Ten Ten using the Fan to destroy whatever she can from your team (including summons) and we’ve seen that she’s capable of doing it (
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) and we’ve also got Guy and Lee with their respective gates opened! So that plan would fail.Now further on, you mention that your team has got knowledge on us. That’s true… but having knowledge of “Guy being very fast” does not mean that you will know EXACTLY HOW fast he is and it also doesn’t mean that you will be able to anticipate him! Remember that Pain had knowledge on Sage mode as well and look how that turned out as the fight begun vs Naruto … And they have yet to meet gate #7 snd #8. And as I’ve mentioned earlier, your team will not have time to summon because they will be attacked from the get-go! You will most likely retreat, not hang around and get hurt by the fan/ ninja weapons.
Your plans has Neji failing and the rest being idle around him. I pointed out that this is NOT the case so there’s not much to counter there. A few mentions: you keep assuming you’re free to summon whoever you want and no one will attack the summoner … this isn’t a very likely scenario. Having basic knowledge on your team allows us to know which paths to fear the most and we’ll attack the summoner I assure you!
Good for you bringing Nagato into this, but that’s all you can do with him… mention him. Because you’re not allowed to use him (as weird as that sounds) because this is strictly the 6 paths and we’ll consider destroying them as the final point. I would also like for you to consider the same thing and assume Nagato doesn’t exist or that he’s only a shadow.
Now for your 2nd Title, I find it weird that you brought nothing new. You keep clinging to those summons and you seem to think that Guy can only go up to 6 gates for some reason, that Neji is dead, TenTen is fodder and cannot attack and Lee is exhausted very easily… This is the most I’ve seen my team being underestimated in a VS match…
I am beginning to get tired and my eyes hurt so I will keep it shorter than intended (my team mate will finish what I’ve started though).
I’d like to end this by discussing our most important WEAPON/SHINOBI: Guy with his 8 gates.
What can Guy do?
Pain has no information on the 7th Gate, nor the Hirudora (
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) , which pretty much one-shot one of the most OP guys in the akatsuki. I believe that this jutsu alone is strong enough to clear out a few paths with 1 shot and no matter how much knowledge you were to have on us anyway, it’s impossible to dodge something as fast as that and as large as that, especially if we consider that it’s not only his jutsu you’ll be needing to dodge, it’s TenTen’s banana fan/ninja weapons, Neji’s Vacuum Palm and Lee’s attacks. Not to mention the fact that Pain might believe that Guy will be surrounded by a chakra coating and have Preta path intercept him (confidently I might add).What will he be able to do in the 8th Gate?
I know you want to avoid this argument, but it’s part of the debate so you cannot. Guy can and WILL enter his 8th Gate, thus sacrificing himself for the good of his team. What do we know about the gate? “The Gate of Death (死門, Shimon), located at the heart. Releasing this gate uses up all of the body's energy. It makes the heart pump at maximum power and exceeds the power of every other gate. Opening this gate gives the user power that is even beyond the five Kage, but comes at the expense of the user's life shortly after.”
So in short, it’s a HUGE burst of power unmeasured, but enormous enough to surpass the Kage and it’s an improvement from gate number 7. So Let’s imagine Guy in his 6th gate. He was fast and resulted in an almost instant win against Kisame’s clone. Guy’s 7th gate: an instant win against Kisame’s full power! Guy’s 8th gate will be more than any of the paths can handle that’s for sure, but my guess: instant destruction of whichever paths he will decide to target. My guess, we’ll start with Animal, Deva, and then work our way around the rest.
I’m too tired to write more stuff. I guess this will have to do. I will edit this for the judges if they wish to read it easier (as in bold a few words, space out sentences).
Last edited:
MilwaukeegHost
Jōnin Strategist 🧠
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Prince Charles,
WHERE THE HELL IS YOUR CLOSING POST BRO?!? My match with you in the last tournament was easily the hardest match I've had to-date... I had very high expectations of you this Round. (You BETTA not be stalling so I can't counter... MFer!!!)
*sigh*
**************************************************************************************************
On behalf of Team Senko... PLEASE STOP USING FAN-FICTION TO DESCRIBE MY TEAMS BATTLE TACTICS. This is not LITERALLY the manga, and you are not Kishi. This is a debate tournament, so you can only describe what you will have YOUR characters do, then debate OUR strategies AFTER we tell them to you. Hmmph.
With that being said... its time to counter YOUR strategies, as should be in any debate match:
DR. PROOF Post: This is the downfall of trying to "counter" in an opening post... since we had not yet laid out our strategy, any "counter" is just wishful thinking. I will not comment on the majority of your strategy, because it involves tactics based upon the theory that you will split up my team (1st mistake) and "perfectly" match your 2 teams to exploit our weaknesses (2nd mistake). Problem is... you NEVER described an actual stragegy at all of how you would seperate our team, let alone seperate us in a manner that would maximize the match-up in Pein's favor (ex. Neji VS Gakido). If so, please list what you said so I can address it directly. But I will briefly describe the flaws in your strategy.
FYI, my team would OBVIOUSLY remain in close quarters of each other to utilize each other's strengths. That means avoiding being seperated at all costs--that's the whole purpose of Konoha seperating their shinobi into 4 man teams (i.e. TEAM GAI), if you didn't know this already, re-read Chapter 8.
FLAWS IN STRAGEGY: 1) Overestimating Gakido 2) Team Seperation 3) Underestimating Ten-Ten
1) "Gakido acts on instinct... Grab Neji from behind... (absorbing chakra) will restrict Gai from enterinng any form of Hachimon"
Gakido cannot successfully "blitz" argueably the fastest team in Konoha, period. Neji would see Gakido coming a mile away, even from behind (360 vision), even while defending another Peins attack. Team Gai can instantly utilize Neji's sight with instant updates on any movement of any Pein.
See Draegod's post for manga proof of Neji's Byakugan range of vision & Team Gai Walkie-Talkies.
In the manga, Gakido was only able to absorb Naruto's INNER Sage chakra through direct contact by BINDING him (to have time to drain his power). Naruto also did not know Gakido could absorb chakra until he was already in a full nelson, but Team Gai enters the fight with this knowledge (A). And since Gai's Open Gates Aura is NOT chakra, he is not vulnerable to having his chakra drained without being held/binded by Gakido (B):
(A) Manga 434, pg. 18
(B) Manga 507, pg. 5
Engaging a Taijutsu specialist in CQC trying to grab him to drain chakra is suicidal... especially seeing Deva Path does not start the match with Bansho Ten'in, and Gai can and will Open Gates, and Gai also carries weapons for defense (C/D):
(C) Manga 258, pg. 3
(D) Manga 595, pg. 6
Dr. Proof... you should have talked to your teammate SOTRS, he would have informed you: "...approaching (Gai) up front is a terrible idea..."
Open Gates + Soushuuga + No Bansho Ten'in + Directly engaging Gai... Gakido is now dead, FYI.
2) Small note here. Pein's strength right now is in their numbers (6 VS 4), any seperation increases the chances of a Pein eventually having to fight by himself. Since each Pein has only 1 major talent, fighting solo is one of Pein's major weaknesses (E/F), especially considering the fact that SOTRS stated they have "two vulnerable paths (Deva & Hell)":
(E) Manga 432, pg. 11
(F) Manga 422, pg. 9
3) *Note: I will address underestimating Ten-Ten in my offensive strategy.
SOTRS Post: Again, Sasori also has flawed logic when it comes to debate tournaments. You say that, "...since by us having the first move, we pretty much decide how the match is going to start, as well as go down..." !!!!!
I won't elaborate further here (b/c Anub already did) but I will say again, Team Gai plans to stay in close quarters utilizing Byakugan sight with ear communicators. And again, Sasori debates what he THINKS we will do instead of debating what we SAID we would do...
FLAWS IN STRATEGY: 1) 3 Peins plan to go airborne 2) Overestimating Summons 3) Underestimating ear communicators
1) "...We're going to take the safe route and go airborne, straght away....Animal path hovering in the skies, along with Hell and Deva..."
I have already spoken about the potential problems with spliting up the Peins. One major problem here is the only Pein that can summon a defence (Panda, (G) is Animal Path, and he is now seperated from the 3 Peins on the ground. This flaw is devistating for the Peins on the ground during my offensive attack (see below).
(G) Manga 377, pg. 16
2) "...Once we're in the skies, its more or less over... Kaiten is vulnerable to sheer power, then the Drill bird is capable of ploughing through it..."
I will not address this until my offensive strategy (see below)... but a small note here. You cannot hit what you cannot see... this will prove to be just more Fan-Fiction from Turnt-Up Publishing and Co... LMAO
3) "...that's not what we're aiming for, meaning, that's pretty much useless"
*Note: I will address underestimating ear communicators in my offensive stragegy.
SENKO OFFENSIVE STRATEGY: Underestimating Ten-Ten and Teamwork
DR. PROOF: "[Pein] effortlessly defeats Ten-Ten"
SOTRS: "TenTen is still going to get pasted off the get go."
Note: Going off the manga, Deva had to wait for a full SM Naruto clone (5 min) plus half another SM clone, plus a few minutes in between before he could utilize Shinra Tensei... This gives us a large window of approximately 10 minutes to do damage!
Since we are fighting in an OBVIOUS mis-match (6 Peins VS Ten-Ten and Co LMAO)... I thought the best closing has to include a way to show the judges how Team Senko can capitalize on the extreme underestimation of the woman our opponents consider nothing but mere fodder... TEN-TEN.
For our offensive strategy we will focus on exploiting Pein's 3 main weaknesses:
1) Loss of Shared Rinnegan Vision (TenTen)
2) Extremely Fast and Strong Shinobi (Gai/Lee)
3) 1-on-1 combat (Taijutsu Experts)
1) Instead of guess-timations and speculation... my offensive strategy is based on countering the attacks Turnt-Up has already initiated against us. Since our opponents plan to use their opening moments on summons and getting their "vulnerable" shinobi in the air, we will capitalize on them wasting time seperating their shinobi (air/land) by Lee/Gai Opening Chakra Gates, dropping leg weights, and Ten-Ten utillizing her weapons expertise...b/c Peins weakness is blindness:
(H) Manga 432, pg.12
(I) Manga 441, pg. 16
(J) Manga 423, pg. 4
(K) Manga 432, pg. 14, 15
Although smoke/dust would not "completely" blind the battlefield (ex. Bringer of Darkness jutsu), it would limit clear vision to a mere few feet in distance... allowing our Taijutsu Experts (Gai/Lee/Neji) increased chances to get in CQC!!! All summons would have an extremly hard time finding our shinobi to attack!!! Even the landscape itself (Konoha Crater) works in our favor, as a combination of TenTen not only using smoke bombs but her actually "attacking" the dusty ground (i.e. paper bombs) can potentially create a dust screen to further impare vision:
(L) Manga 433, pg. 13
Especially seeing that Deva Path does not start the match with Shinra Tensei, Pein has no way to eliminate ALL of the potential smoke/dust clouds on the battlefield! And with TenTen's weapons summoning ability to create smoke bombs and paper bomb the dusty earth, the remaining Peins on the ground would be at a significant disadvantage, because 1) Pein has no sensing abilities besides their shared vision 2) our team still has the byakugan and ear communicators to navigate through the battlefield! Even the Peins in the air would have trouble locating our shinobi for long distance attacks and assisting their land Peins.
With Neji's ability to see everything in the smoke/dust, he can instruct TenTen on what direction to focus the Banana Fan and other long range weapons attacks that have the potential to be hidden until only a mere few feet in disatance away from the Peins, SEVERLY limiting their reaction/defense time. He will also assist the other 2 Taijutsu Specialists in finding Peins to engage CQC.
Note: The summoning Pein (for defensive help) is in the air at this moment, with impared land vision.
With gates open, Gai would easily jump into the air performing hundreds of unavoidable flames from Morning Peacock to exploit the airborne Peins and Pein Summons' weakness, Fire Style:
(M) Manga 550, pg. 6, 7
And if you think Morning Peacock's flames aren't strong enough to subdue the Pein summons, we see here this technique is strong enough to even go head to head against MULTIPLE bijuus (N) !!! And have mercy on their souls if Gai ever decides to use Hirudora... the technique that single handedly put Madara and his Susano'o on his ass (O):
(N) Manga 568, pg. 4
(O) Manga 608, pg. 17
Lastly, when Morning Peacock successfully knocks the airborne Peins off their summons (b/c Pein has no way to counter these COUNTLESS flames without Shinra Tensei), I feel sorry for any Pein that falls in the circle of Neji's 64 Palms or even caught in mid-air, they will be dead or atleast chakra-less for sure:
(P) Manga 197, pg. 16
2) Small note here. The 6 paths of Pein are FAR from being indestructible... Lee will have leg weights off and we will have gates open... With the decreased visibility and increased chances for CQC, I would like to remind the judges that the Peins weak bodies are very vulnerable to extremely fast shinobi who have strong taijutsu:
(Note: Draegod posted SM Jiraiya & SM Naruto killing Peins with speed blitz)
...Even shown being killed by a CHILD doing an extra small TINY rasengan for the first time in battle LMAO:
(Q) Manga 428, pg. 6
3) Small note here. With 10 shinobi performing jutsu on this battlefield, starting 15 meters away with a 10 minute handicap (Deva Path)... Any "solo" Pein caught in Team Gai's shared vision in CQC is as good as dead... 64 Palms... Strong Fist... long range attacks with limited reaction time... TEAM GAI HAS THE ADVANTAGE!
*************************************************************************************************
HONORABLE MENTION: 8 Gate Gai
Seeing that I have frowned upon our opposition using Fan-Fiction strategies to defeat us.... As a man I cannot bring myself to use 8 Gate Gai in this battle. But honestly, our team's posts are strong enough that I no longer feel necessary to use it anyway... so if we win it'll be a well earned title from out-smarting our opponents, not Gai's Fantasy Feats.
But... I will leave this on the judges minds... 8 Gate Gai IS ALLOWED in this match, so I will simply end my debate by proving Gai is MORE than willing to sacrifice his own life at any moment during this battle to save someone dear to him, as he said himself to Kakashi in the War Arc VS the Jinchurriki Bijuu's Tailed Beast Bombs...
Manga 571, pg. 2
-MilwaukeegHost, K.U.S.H. Sage
WHERE THE HELL IS YOUR CLOSING POST BRO?!? My match with you in the last tournament was easily the hardest match I've had to-date... I had very high expectations of you this Round. (You BETTA not be stalling so I can't counter... MFer!!!)
*sigh*
**************************************************************************************************
On behalf of Team Senko... PLEASE STOP USING FAN-FICTION TO DESCRIBE MY TEAMS BATTLE TACTICS. This is not LITERALLY the manga, and you are not Kishi. This is a debate tournament, so you can only describe what you will have YOUR characters do, then debate OUR strategies AFTER we tell them to you. Hmmph.
With that being said... its time to counter YOUR strategies, as should be in any debate match:
DR. PROOF Post: This is the downfall of trying to "counter" in an opening post... since we had not yet laid out our strategy, any "counter" is just wishful thinking. I will not comment on the majority of your strategy, because it involves tactics based upon the theory that you will split up my team (1st mistake) and "perfectly" match your 2 teams to exploit our weaknesses (2nd mistake). Problem is... you NEVER described an actual stragegy at all of how you would seperate our team, let alone seperate us in a manner that would maximize the match-up in Pein's favor (ex. Neji VS Gakido). If so, please list what you said so I can address it directly. But I will briefly describe the flaws in your strategy.
FYI, my team would OBVIOUSLY remain in close quarters of each other to utilize each other's strengths. That means avoiding being seperated at all costs--that's the whole purpose of Konoha seperating their shinobi into 4 man teams (i.e. TEAM GAI), if you didn't know this already, re-read Chapter 8.
FLAWS IN STRAGEGY: 1) Overestimating Gakido 2) Team Seperation 3) Underestimating Ten-Ten
1) "Gakido acts on instinct... Grab Neji from behind... (absorbing chakra) will restrict Gai from enterinng any form of Hachimon"
Gakido cannot successfully "blitz" argueably the fastest team in Konoha, period. Neji would see Gakido coming a mile away, even from behind (360 vision), even while defending another Peins attack. Team Gai can instantly utilize Neji's sight with instant updates on any movement of any Pein.
See Draegod's post for manga proof of Neji's Byakugan range of vision & Team Gai Walkie-Talkies.
In the manga, Gakido was only able to absorb Naruto's INNER Sage chakra through direct contact by BINDING him (to have time to drain his power). Naruto also did not know Gakido could absorb chakra until he was already in a full nelson, but Team Gai enters the fight with this knowledge (A). And since Gai's Open Gates Aura is NOT chakra, he is not vulnerable to having his chakra drained without being held/binded by Gakido (B):
(A) Manga 434, pg. 18
(B) Manga 507, pg. 5
Engaging a Taijutsu specialist in CQC trying to grab him to drain chakra is suicidal... especially seeing Deva Path does not start the match with Bansho Ten'in, and Gai can and will Open Gates, and Gai also carries weapons for defense (C/D):
(C) Manga 258, pg. 3
(D) Manga 595, pg. 6
Dr. Proof... you should have talked to your teammate SOTRS, he would have informed you: "...approaching (Gai) up front is a terrible idea..."
Open Gates + Soushuuga + No Bansho Ten'in + Directly engaging Gai... Gakido is now dead, FYI.
2) Small note here. Pein's strength right now is in their numbers (6 VS 4), any seperation increases the chances of a Pein eventually having to fight by himself. Since each Pein has only 1 major talent, fighting solo is one of Pein's major weaknesses (E/F), especially considering the fact that SOTRS stated they have "two vulnerable paths (Deva & Hell)":
(E) Manga 432, pg. 11
(F) Manga 422, pg. 9
3) *Note: I will address underestimating Ten-Ten in my offensive strategy.
SOTRS Post: Again, Sasori also has flawed logic when it comes to debate tournaments. You say that, "...since by us having the first move, we pretty much decide how the match is going to start, as well as go down..." !!!!!
I won't elaborate further here (b/c Anub already did) but I will say again, Team Gai plans to stay in close quarters utilizing Byakugan sight with ear communicators. And again, Sasori debates what he THINKS we will do instead of debating what we SAID we would do...
FLAWS IN STRATEGY: 1) 3 Peins plan to go airborne 2) Overestimating Summons 3) Underestimating ear communicators
1) "...We're going to take the safe route and go airborne, straght away....Animal path hovering in the skies, along with Hell and Deva..."
I have already spoken about the potential problems with spliting up the Peins. One major problem here is the only Pein that can summon a defence (Panda, (G) is Animal Path, and he is now seperated from the 3 Peins on the ground. This flaw is devistating for the Peins on the ground during my offensive attack (see below).
(G) Manga 377, pg. 16
2) "...Once we're in the skies, its more or less over... Kaiten is vulnerable to sheer power, then the Drill bird is capable of ploughing through it..."
I will not address this until my offensive strategy (see below)... but a small note here. You cannot hit what you cannot see... this will prove to be just more Fan-Fiction from Turnt-Up Publishing and Co... LMAO
3) "...that's not what we're aiming for, meaning, that's pretty much useless"
*Note: I will address underestimating ear communicators in my offensive stragegy.
SENKO OFFENSIVE STRATEGY: Underestimating Ten-Ten and Teamwork
DR. PROOF: "[Pein] effortlessly defeats Ten-Ten"
SOTRS: "TenTen is still going to get pasted off the get go."
Note: Going off the manga, Deva had to wait for a full SM Naruto clone (5 min) plus half another SM clone, plus a few minutes in between before he could utilize Shinra Tensei... This gives us a large window of approximately 10 minutes to do damage!
Since we are fighting in an OBVIOUS mis-match (6 Peins VS Ten-Ten and Co LMAO)... I thought the best closing has to include a way to show the judges how Team Senko can capitalize on the extreme underestimation of the woman our opponents consider nothing but mere fodder... TEN-TEN.
For our offensive strategy we will focus on exploiting Pein's 3 main weaknesses:
1) Loss of Shared Rinnegan Vision (TenTen)
2) Extremely Fast and Strong Shinobi (Gai/Lee)
3) 1-on-1 combat (Taijutsu Experts)
1) Instead of guess-timations and speculation... my offensive strategy is based on countering the attacks Turnt-Up has already initiated against us. Since our opponents plan to use their opening moments on summons and getting their "vulnerable" shinobi in the air, we will capitalize on them wasting time seperating their shinobi (air/land) by Lee/Gai Opening Chakra Gates, dropping leg weights, and Ten-Ten utillizing her weapons expertise...b/c Peins weakness is blindness:
(H) Manga 432, pg.12
(I) Manga 441, pg. 16
(J) Manga 423, pg. 4
(K) Manga 432, pg. 14, 15
Although smoke/dust would not "completely" blind the battlefield (ex. Bringer of Darkness jutsu), it would limit clear vision to a mere few feet in distance... allowing our Taijutsu Experts (Gai/Lee/Neji) increased chances to get in CQC!!! All summons would have an extremly hard time finding our shinobi to attack!!! Even the landscape itself (Konoha Crater) works in our favor, as a combination of TenTen not only using smoke bombs but her actually "attacking" the dusty ground (i.e. paper bombs) can potentially create a dust screen to further impare vision:
(L) Manga 433, pg. 13
Especially seeing that Deva Path does not start the match with Shinra Tensei, Pein has no way to eliminate ALL of the potential smoke/dust clouds on the battlefield! And with TenTen's weapons summoning ability to create smoke bombs and paper bomb the dusty earth, the remaining Peins on the ground would be at a significant disadvantage, because 1) Pein has no sensing abilities besides their shared vision 2) our team still has the byakugan and ear communicators to navigate through the battlefield! Even the Peins in the air would have trouble locating our shinobi for long distance attacks and assisting their land Peins.
With Neji's ability to see everything in the smoke/dust, he can instruct TenTen on what direction to focus the Banana Fan and other long range weapons attacks that have the potential to be hidden until only a mere few feet in disatance away from the Peins, SEVERLY limiting their reaction/defense time. He will also assist the other 2 Taijutsu Specialists in finding Peins to engage CQC.
Note: The summoning Pein (for defensive help) is in the air at this moment, with impared land vision.
With gates open, Gai would easily jump into the air performing hundreds of unavoidable flames from Morning Peacock to exploit the airborne Peins and Pein Summons' weakness, Fire Style:
(M) Manga 550, pg. 6, 7
And if you think Morning Peacock's flames aren't strong enough to subdue the Pein summons, we see here this technique is strong enough to even go head to head against MULTIPLE bijuus (N) !!! And have mercy on their souls if Gai ever decides to use Hirudora... the technique that single handedly put Madara and his Susano'o on his ass (O):
(N) Manga 568, pg. 4
(O) Manga 608, pg. 17
Lastly, when Morning Peacock successfully knocks the airborne Peins off their summons (b/c Pein has no way to counter these COUNTLESS flames without Shinra Tensei), I feel sorry for any Pein that falls in the circle of Neji's 64 Palms or even caught in mid-air, they will be dead or atleast chakra-less for sure:
(P) Manga 197, pg. 16
2) Small note here. The 6 paths of Pein are FAR from being indestructible... Lee will have leg weights off and we will have gates open... With the decreased visibility and increased chances for CQC, I would like to remind the judges that the Peins weak bodies are very vulnerable to extremely fast shinobi who have strong taijutsu:
(Note: Draegod posted SM Jiraiya & SM Naruto killing Peins with speed blitz)
...Even shown being killed by a CHILD doing an extra small TINY rasengan for the first time in battle LMAO:
(Q) Manga 428, pg. 6
3) Small note here. With 10 shinobi performing jutsu on this battlefield, starting 15 meters away with a 10 minute handicap (Deva Path)... Any "solo" Pein caught in Team Gai's shared vision in CQC is as good as dead... 64 Palms... Strong Fist... long range attacks with limited reaction time... TEAM GAI HAS THE ADVANTAGE!
*************************************************************************************************
HONORABLE MENTION: 8 Gate Gai
Seeing that I have frowned upon our opposition using Fan-Fiction strategies to defeat us.... As a man I cannot bring myself to use 8 Gate Gai in this battle. But honestly, our team's posts are strong enough that I no longer feel necessary to use it anyway... so if we win it'll be a well earned title from out-smarting our opponents, not Gai's Fantasy Feats.
But... I will leave this on the judges minds... 8 Gate Gai IS ALLOWED in this match, so I will simply end my debate by proving Gai is MORE than willing to sacrifice his own life at any moment during this battle to save someone dear to him, as he said himself to Kakashi in the War Arc VS the Jinchurriki Bijuu's Tailed Beast Bombs...
Manga 571, pg. 2
-MilwaukeegHost, K.U.S.H. Sage
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DrProof
Kage in the Making 👑
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^ Why did you post before Charles? An extension could have been made you do know this? Lmao. Abide by the rules man.
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SasoriOfTheRedSaand
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What the heck? P.C didn't even counter Anub yet...
DrProof
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Seems like he was in a rush to get the "better of us". I lol'd at this part of his post nonetheless:
Like honestly, aren't you supposed to take to the aggressive, and corner your opponent via controlling their opposition? I don't know how you debated back in the day, but this is what stands now.
EliteKakashi
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The 72 hours is up in like 15 minutes. He risks not being able to get his post in if he were to have waited. Extensions aren't likely to be given, unless it's due to serious emergencies that effect multiple of your team members. Everyone wants to get this tourney done on time.
DrProof
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Incorrect. Extensions will be given if the opposing team requests one. If it isn't an ongoing thing extensions will be given upon request more than likely.
EliteKakashi
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I remember reading something from either Anub or 6 Paths about extensions not going to be given out too often..but maybe I didn't, lol.
DrProof
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I was able to get an extension due to my schedule being inconsistent due to football practice, but I found the time to type up an OP before it affected my debating time. The same principles could apply to Charles, or any other members debating in this tourney.
Prince Charles
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...
My counter is actually finished right now Zzz I was going to run it through my team first.
My counter is actually finished right now Zzz I was going to run it through my team first.
EliteKakashi
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Both of the matches(given the 3rd was a DQ) got extensions. 24 hours wasn't considered enough time for the opener apparently. Wouldn't be surprised if that is extended by like 12 hours or so, especially considering the opener is usually the most information-packed post.
DrProof
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I see where you're coming from.
Don't worry bro. Post it in the group.
MilwaukeegHost
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1. I was not "In a rush to get the better of anyone". The match closes like... NOW... and if I would not have posted I would not have been able to give our closing. Just because your team decided not to post in time doesn't mean I could not post OUR closing. And FYI... If I would not have posted, and Prince Charles posted "at the last minute", it would have been our fault for not stepping up. I did not know if PC was trolling us to take advantage at the last second or if he honestly decided NOT to post... but I was told by my TEAM CAPTAIN / TOURNAMENT CREATOR to give our closing regardless, so I did so.
And FYI... If your team needed an extention... NONE OF YOU EVER SAID THIS TO ANYONE BEFORE THE END OF THE MATCH... so I expected him to post at the last second. To me, I'd never have though any judge would allow a team an extension if they asked AFTER the match was already concluded. We are honestly suppose to have the last post, which allows us to COUNTER our opponents closing post, so if that's not true I need to be shown in the official debate tournament rules. What else should I have done?!?
2. Yes, you are suppose to take the offensive and corner your opponent... but look at the other team's opening posts. They do not go in debth about what strategies their opposition will use... maybe JUTSU at the most, but entire battle sinerios?!? And FYI, I already explained in my closing post, that was the wrong move, cause your tactics were based upon the assumption that you could successfully break up a Byakugan User from the rest of his team, that has mobile communications. Laughable, at most.
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Prince Charles
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shall i simply just post my argument now?
DrProof
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Calm down man. Why are you using caps. It's just a tournament.
Edo Odin
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Yes, just go ahead. Since MilwaukeegHost's post was made when it wasn't their turn, it will not be counted as a part of the debate, meaning that the next move, is yours.