not really dude, im just reasoning out unreasonable posts..
i do agree with you regarding sasuke-haters, but he is a main character in the manga for all important reasons.
i think that an attack to sasuke is an attack to Naruto himself.
no offense meant in any ways...
im just inviting arjun3394 to expound...to read him deeper if he has something to say relevant to this great forum.
i admire Omnigan's way of stating views--very reasonable indeed. if there is something you would want to read aside from the manga proper, it is his comments...best by far that i have read.
i may not agree with Omnigan "powerful kabuto"--but hell yeahhh, he supports his side with slithering facts and observation.
i am still sticking with " weak kabuto",,,why??
1. kabuto from the start is an unknown..even his roots.
2. his jutsus are ordinary to me...chakra control, regeneration, and now oro's skills--very much no-originality type.
3. he gets attention by "being with powerful shinobis"; a. sasori's spy, b. oro's side kick, c. madara ---an ally???as he claims...it will be an awful sight to behold if madara sacrifices him or sasuke ends his power-seek-denials.
4. he seems to run away from fights...fights he knew from the start he could not win...the latest--even stating his judgment to "just capture" yamato because it is impossible to win facing Naruto and bee.
5. his experiments is sickening...he intends to use somebody or anybody's ideas...devilish--i like oro more for he was the original proponent.
so, who is kabuto?---he is one sick bastard, lame in nature and a low level shinobi---a pretender that is.
his jutsus...chakra control as medical nin?? wait till sakura blossoms as a medical nin: his regeneration?? not comparable to that of sasuke or Naruto's or tsunade's (katsuyo---whooo this rocksss).
tell me now...is kabuto that strong??? i don't think so.
he could be one...i think not in this manga's time hehe.
kabuto is a great filler as he is a pretender...
his pretensions are as sick as his plans... i would like to read what these plans are though...
sasuke is sasuke...and i do believe he is as great as Naruto but a second to Naruto's starring role of course.
itachi gave his life for him...and itachi is a great shinobi, he could have been worthy of a manga special...too much love
oro wanted him, madara wants him, AND NOW KABUTO???
we can take out kabuto and the manga continues without any effect as why he is gone.
kabuto is not kabuto
sasuke is sasuke
great minds would not think twice to realize this
Floydical, i think i said enough to clear my point to arjun3394...
btw..glad to know mugiwara practices judo...in what dan are you now? im also a practioneer. muroti is my favorite throw - a clear ippon - difficult to execute though.
thanks for the great post man.
i appreciate the compliment too.
its good to know someone out there likes my post.
i enjoyed reading your thoughts.
let me spill kabuto in another angle then shall I?
he SUPPORTED orochimaru many times. it may have seemed like he worked for orochimaru, but even oro knew that kabuto wasnt entirely in his pocket. he cared for oro and he cared for kimimaro. kabuto is probably the only reason that kimimaro lived as long as he did. imagine if he had died long before fighting naruto,rock lee, and finally gaara.
kabuto is intregal to the plot thus far.
he was oro's way inside konoha to get to sasuke.
he was oro's way of dealing with tsunade's blood issues.
he had her beaten, and only naruto's tough spirit was enough to free her from the control that kabuto had over her.
kabuto is awesome, because he is always calm.
he never loses his cool. he is always relaxed and in control.
its in his demeanor. he is very intellectual. incredibly so.
remember in the early anime, he had cards on all the ninjas? he knew everything about everyone. even madara and zetsu were recently like "omg, how much do you know dude?"
after kabuto brought out the final coffin in the edo tensei, madara said "who would have thought you would be this powerful, kabuto?"
anyways... my point is that kabuto is the epitome of a true ninja.
he has his hand in everything. kabuto is going to surprise the hell out of all of us. i include myself because all though i know there is something else, im not sure what it is yet.
ive known for a VERY long time about kabuto having a secret though.
ill share.
chapter 63
page 12
frame 4
in the anime, it was an amazing.
just a second, and if you blink you miss it.
but that second tells a lot, if you care to listen.
his stare of power and death like intent so totally disarmed them, that one kick from naruto won the entire battle.
that is a power that very few possess.
recognize!
and if you keep reading, you see that sasuke notices that kabuto is WAY more powerful than he is letting on. showing you sasuke's perception is high, and that kabuto although a great actor, is in possession of way more power than he claims to have.
"naruto-kun thanks for saving me" hah yeah right dude! you won that battle with one glance, but hey, lets just roll right past that...yay the heaven scroll! and we forget all about kabuto being one of the most lethal people in the story.
on another note, could you explain "kabuto is not kabuto"
"sasuke is sasuke"?
i didnt quite understand what you meant there.
kabuto is not kabuto
to simply put it...kabuto persona in this manga is not his original one...as you said he is an epitome of an intellectual nin(yes as he is great in experimentation..scientific to put it otherwise) kabuto is a developing character...he is not innate. he shares known jutsus and develops them--jutsus that are ordinary but are not wholly his. his tremendous traits to-date are copies of what have beens ...and are modified ones. he is not his natural self... kabuto exists as a mere pretension.
his edo tensei is oro's, his snake snake skin is oro's..
in short..we have not known kabuto to be kabuto from the start...(if this some kind of philosophical to you..i would be glad to expound..but not in this forum).
sasuke is sasuke
Naruto and sasuke is equal to Naruto Manga. A protagonist and the antagonist.
sage toad mentioned this... if sasuke is not an important character to reckon with, this manga is doomed. this is the basis of "sasuke is sasuke". sasuke is original, an uchiha wanted and desired by other characters in the manga because of his inherited powers.(who would want kabuto from the start??...none - because kabuto was no-one).
sasuke is powerful...there is no doubt in my mind that he will become more powerful that madara...he will replace madara.
sasuke is sasuke and his hatred. madara is hate himself...but sasuke will surprise us like he did with his hatred. and madara will be a victim of this hatred that he bred.
sasuke is sasuke...to this manga, as a main counterpart of our hero Naruto.
simple right?!!!
but you are correct, kabuto could surprise us. i look forward to that. but he just can't be Naruto or sasuke or madara or even kisame who plays an important role in the storylines. i just believe he could not be a character to be remembered.
he did play integral part to oro's plans ---to "oro's plans...not his
he is intelligent..yes...but not to overshadow shikimaru's--i can see you agree with this
he fought tsunade..."with oro"...not his fight eh
his medical prowess...i can wait with sakura's...
but hell yeah...kabuto could be full of surprises...just hoping that it would be his...not madara's hehe
Lets analyze what happened. Madara was all ready to take out the two Jinchuurikis he was pretty confident may he would have used Zetsu but then Kabuto interferes saying that he will do it. Kabuto instead brings Yamato saying he made a judgment decision rather than fighting an "impossible battle". So Kabuto knew that his chances of winning against two Jinchuurikis were close to zero yet he stopped Madara. I think Kabuto has a purpose for doing this I don't know what it is but it sure looks fishy.
Naruto you idiot...can't u allow curiosity get better of you?!
Anyway...sorry for being irrelevant but i think kabuto summoned Minato or the nidaime...maybe thats why madara is afraid
hey guys i view this site for a few weeks but dont see much pred so ill do one and hope other will follow me , enjoy guys
naruto 515
madara: well before you use him for clones ill see what info he has
madara uses his sharingan on yamato
madara sees naruto's cloak
madara: what ??? this is impossible naruto cant have this form , unless...
damn you itachi , even in death you piss me off well i have the eyes and he has the body but i wont fight him thats for sasuke
madara thinks in himself( sasuke has no chance against him but he can weaken naruto so i can finish him off)
zetsu: so youre going to sasuke ?
madara: yep , you 2 gard the fort and work on the zetsu
kabuto: yes chef , kabuto thinks in himself ( the guys still underestemates me, of course i had a possibility to beat naruto but now i know of his power i prob had no chance but my time will come)
madara teleports to a secret room which is filled of flams
madara; dont overdo it
sasuku: i didnt know that EMS would enhance my body strenght and my amaterasu has also improveed
madara in himself ( what ? his body enhanced , thats not what EMS normally do to you , hmmpf maybe he has a chance against naruto , i wonder what his susano will be)
sasuke :first i wanna finish the kages for what they did to me
madara: ok then but ill help you still not able to perform you powers at his max
sasuke : well at least i dont need the rinnegan to have power, first you take eyes from your brother and now from you a traitor to akatsuki
madara: i dont need a lecture , lets go
back at the turtle
tsuchikage: were in deed trouble, we need to report to the other kages
motoi: why ?
tsuchikage: thats none of your business
naruto and bee running towards motoi
bee: we heard some fuss and thought lets abandon the s-rank mission weee
naruto : sorry aoba to leave the super important mission but bee wanna to take a look and i was too excitedn , huh ? who is that old dude and that girl and the fat guy and wheres yamato?
bee: thats the tsuchikage and his granddaughter and well the fat guy he need to run more instead of fly weee
naruto : the what kage ?
aoba in himself : what an idiot, is he really to guy who is gonna guid the revolutuion jiraiya-sama
tsuchikage: what a disrespectfull boy, ill tell the hokage how you behave
in himself( boy what lifeforce has this boy , its inbelievable, ive never seen this kinda chakra and deep withim theres a hugh chakra , did he really mastered the kyuubi? he prob even surpassed yondaime , boy boy if i think back at that flashy brat , petty we dont have thos kinda guys in our village)
naruto: iam gonna be hokage like i would report to myself
but anyway whats going on here, why are they here? and i dont sense yamato
aoba : yamato is on a report of your mission and the tsuchikage is here to investigate the giant turtle ( i hope he believes it )
naruto : seems fine to me
tsuchikage in himself ( well he isnt as smart as his father)
suddenly naruto kabuto's skin
naruto : hey but thats kabuto , what the hell
aobo : ooohh boy
tsuchikage: crap he found out , lets tell him the truth , weve no other choice
aobo : we had orders not to ...
tsuchikage: i am one of the 5 kages so ill make that decision
after naruto hears the story
naruto : damn akatsuki , theyve captured yamato-sensei , ihave to save him
maybe my new form can help me find hil
tsuchikage: whats is he gonna do ?
bee: oh boy here he goes again , just watch kagebitch
naruto goes SO6P form
tsuchikage : this is unbelievable so the legend is true
naruto : found him
what will happen , is this the end of yamato or will naruto will flash to save him
i agree with everything also with kabuto as a strong character cause he won the battle betwen him and tsunade ... but i also somehow agree with jabsnaruto about kabuto runing away if someone is strong as him or stronger like back than in the hospital as kakashi showed up .. but before kabuto lightely defeated the hole anbu security there and escaped with an interesting justsu i dont remember what its called but there you can see its non medical ninjustu .. but he prefers to fight with medical. there is much we dont know about kabuto since the shunin exams.
Jabs naruto
i think sasuke is strong but not alredy strong enough for madara. sasuke is definetly one of the strongest in this manga right now.
some people here think that sasuke is only wining his battles because of luck but thats not true and i will try to explain.
sasuke fought with danzo and won .. you could say he won because of carin cause she saved him but sasuke fought with the raikage before that so it was just fair. so at that moment you could say sasuke was on kage level.
before that he fought bee and needed the help of his team who reanimated sasuke twice not even that but they also fought with him against bee. at that moment sasuke just learned how to use amaterasu and bee is on an real strong kage level since he is able to control hi jinurichi. i wonder how the next figth bettwen them would end cause sasuke impruved his skills to mangekyo and now eternal, but also bee is in possesion of samehada and as we know he is a master with his swords and actually very fast.
so no one here is to understimate cause some poeple here on this forum would like some ninjas to bi weak or strong and there is no luck or fairnes here .. everyone is using something like samehada kekeigenkais or jinurichis expet jiraiya
Akatsuki leader
you got it thats everyone thinks but its like in dragonball z where freezers uderling zarbon who seem to be gay but actually isnt lol
made some mistakes in pred , heres correction
naruto 515
madara: well before you use him for zetsu-clones ill see what info he has
madara uses his sharingan on yamato
madara sees naruto's cloak
madara: what ??? this is impossible naruto cant have this form , unless...
damn you itachi , even in death you piss me off well i have the eyes and he has the body but i wont fight him thats for sasuke
madara thinks in himself( sasuke has no chance against him but he can weaken naruto so i can finish him off)
zetsu: so youre going to sasuke ?
madara: yep , you 2 gard the fort and work on our army
kabuto: yes chef , kabuto thinks in himself ( the guys still underestemates me, of course i had a possibility to beat naruto but now i know of his power i prob had no chance but my time will come)
madara teleports to a secret room which is filled of black flames
madara; dont overdo it
sasuku: i didnt know that EMS would enhance my body strenght and my amaterasu has also improveed
madara in himself ( what ? his body enhanced , thats not what EMS normally do to you , hmmpf maybe he has a chance against naruto , i wonder what his susano will be)
sasuke :first i wanna finish the kages for what they did to me
madara: ok then but ill help, you still not able to perform you powers at his max
sasuke : well at least i dont need the rinnegan to have power, first you take eyes from your brother and now from a traitor to akatsuki
madara: i dont need a lecture , lets go
back at the turtle island
tsuchikage: were in deep trouble, we need to report to the other kages
motoi: why ?
tsuchikage: thats none of your business
naruto and bee running towards motoi
bee: we heard some fuss and thought lets abandon the s-rank mission weee
naruto : sorry aoba to leave the super important mission but bee wanna to take a look and i was too excited , huh ? who is that old dude and that girl and the fat guy and wheres yamato?
bee: thats the tsuchikage and his granddaughter and well the fat guy he need to run more instead of fly weee
naruto : the what kage ?
aoba in himself : what an idiot, is he really gonna be the guy who is gonna guide the revolution jiraiya-sama
tsuchikage: what a disrespectfull boy, ill tell the hokage how you behave
in himself( boy what lifeforce has this boy , its unbelievable, ive never seen this kinda chakra and deep within him theres a hugh chakra , did he really mastered the kyuubi? he prob even surpassed yondaime , boy boy if i think back at that flashy brat , petty we dont have thos kinda guys in our village)
naruto: iam gonna be hokage like i would report to myself
but anyway whats going on here, why are they here? and i dont sense yamato
aoba : yamato is on a report of your mission and the tsuchikage is here to investigate the giant turtle ( i hope he believes it )
naruto : seems fine to me
tsuchikage in himself ( well he isnt as smart as his father)
suddenly naruto sees kabuto's skin
naruto : hey but thats kabuto , what the hell
aobo : ooohh boy
tsuchikage: crap he found out , lets tell him the truth , weve no other choice
aobo : we had orders not to ...
tsuchikage: i am one of the 5 kages so ill make that decision
after naruto hears the story
naruto : damn akatsuki , theyve captured yamato-sensei , ihave to save him
maybe my new form can help me find him
tsuchikage: what is he gonna do ?
bee: oh boy here he goes again , just watch kagebitch
naruto goes SO6P form
tsuchikage : this is unbelievable so the legend is true
naruto : found him
what will happen , is this the end of yamato or will naruto will flash to save him
Possibly from the encrypted stone where he read about the Sage and also this guy fought the first Hokage, so he's easily a few hundred years old! What else could you do to pass time during all these years in Naruto World?
im not saying this to be mean, but quite a few people here are clueless.
i dont know why i started writing on here, hoping that you guys would actually read my posts, the way i read yours...
I read every post, too, and your posts are among the ones I would rate 5/5. I do not feel the need to respond to you just because I completely agree with you.
Now for the Kabuto discussion: Who is Kabuto? He was the sole survivor of a battle when he was a little child. His original skills include:
1)Advanced medical ninjutsu, which implies high chakra control
2)His corpse reanimation technique which uses his knowledge of the human body to reanimate a corpse for a short time and use it to do his bidding, this is NOT Edo tensei
3)Cell regeneration which speeds up the recovery of his wounds similarly to the healing effect of the Kyuubi's chakra.
The high chakra control he has plays into role now when he has Oro's powers because it allows him to use high-chakra jutsus more times than Oro. That is why he could summon 5 people with Edo tensei (not counting the last coffin as it could or could not be an unreanimated body which he just came across).
His recovery technique will aid him in surprise situations such as Naruto 's ultra high-speed movement barrage (I hope this is clear enough, if not I'll explain it more thoroughly). He also has the techniques Orochimaru had and probably some other techs of his own. And now on the island he did not need to use them so he decided to not give away all of his powers for the sole purpose of kidnapping Yamato. I mean, if I were him and had Deidara and Manda v2 would I need to go all out to kidnap a copy of the first who is backed up by a few just above average level ninja? I would use the advantage of surprise like he did and immediately retreat to avoid having to use any of my powers. And let's take in mind that Yamato is not as strong as the first, he has shown to be utterly fatigued by making a few wooden houses, unlike the 1st who took on Madara and the Kyuubi with this:
and poor yamato! just when it seems like he's getting more panel time, he gets kidnapped by disgusting sicko kabuto! i hope they don't rape him till he dies, yamato's actually a great character :/
I read every post, too, and your posts are among the ones I would rate 5/5. I do not feel the need to respond to you just because I completely agree with you.
Now for the Kabuto discussion: Who is Kabuto? He was the sole survivor of a battle when he was a little child. His original skills include:
1)Advanced medical ninjutsu, which implies high chakra control
2)His corpse reanimation technique which uses his knowledge of the human body to reanimate a corpse for a short time and use it to do his bidding, this is NOT Edo tensei
3)Cell regeneration which speeds up the recovery of his wounds similarly to the healing effect of the Kyuubi's chakra.
The high chakra control he has plays into role now when he has Oro's powers because it allows him to use high-chakra jutsus more times than Oro. That is why he could summon 5 people with Edo tensei (not counting the last coffin as it could or could not be an unreanimated body which he just came across).
His recovery technique will aid him in surprise situations such as Naruto 's ultra high-speed movement barrage (I hope this is clear enough, if not I'll explain it more thoroughly). He also has the techniques Orochimaru had and probably some other techs of his own. And now on the island he did not need to use them so he decided to not give away all of his powers for the sole purpose of kidnapping Yamato. I mean, if I were him and had Deidara and Manda v2 would I need to go all out to kidnap a copy of the first who is backed up by a few just above average level ninja? I would use the advantage of surprise like he did and immediately retreat to avoid having to use any of my powers. And let's take in mind that Yamato is not as strong as the first, he has shown to be utterly fatigued by making a few wooden houses, unlike the 1st who took on Madara and the Kyuubi with this:
i agree with what you said about yamato at the end. (yamato is a copy/creation so not technically gonna be as powerful as the original)
and i agree about the way that kabuto handled capturing him.
i can see you understand what really happened there.
he didnt go all out, because there was no need, and that just isn't kabuto's style to go guns blazing. remember, he is a REAL ninja. he stops to think and always has a plan. i would agree that he is probably not as high of an IQ as shikamaru, who is a omni-genius, shikamaru can take very little information and then put pieces together to know a LOT more than he did before. he can take a situation and play it out in his mind like a 100 different ways. however kabuto is smart in a different way. kabuto actually KNOWS more. he has wiki worth of knowledge stored in his brain, like a damn library. I would say that if madara knows more than any living person, than kabuto is a close second right now. i mean, hell, if he wanted to, he could ressurect sasori, itachi, kakuzu and others and be like "tell me everything you know" and they would be forced to just sit there and spill the beans (ever seen/read gullivers travels? this reminds me of the mirror that brings dead people back to life for awhile so that they can be questioned about what REALLY happened, and if our history is accurate.) kabuto could do that!! im not trying to ride his jock, im just telling you the straight truth of how powerful he is.
the 3rd user of edo tensei, and the best at it.
a medical ninja who is comparable to tsunade
an intelligence that runs very deep.
a calmness that can get him out of sticky situations
hes been with the best, and now he damn near is the best.
you guys are giving all his credit to others, like orochimaru.
does naruto deserve all the credit? hell no.
look how many people have had to help him.
kakashi, iruka, jiraiya, yamato, etc.
rasengan is NOT his technique
kage bunshin is NOT his technique
the nine tails demon is NOT his technique.
and he couldn't have controlled its power without help from others.
so by this logic, we should say naruto as a character sucks?
because all his powers and strengths come from others?
and that's why we all love sasuke? because like was said "sauke is sasuke" no one had to give him powers, HE has the powers that everyone wants and they were originally his unlike kabuto and naruto.
but unfortunately that just isnt the case at all.
you see, true strength lies in the group mentality. naruto knows this well. sasuke is damn near clueless. he thinks its all about using people.
look how well the group mentality has served naruto. there are 100's of people who would sacrifice their lives to save him, and he would do the same for them.
naruto would not be naruto if he didnt have all the people in his corner that he does. thats whats different about kabuto and naruto from sasuke. they had to work for it. and they went to the right people to get the powers they needed.
kabuto, even though a bad guy (which bad guys normally roll solo, because they cant get along well with others, there are many examples if you think on it) kabuto knows this, thats why he hung around with oro, he knew oro had a lot to offer. (edo tensei, so friggin sweet its scary!) (silver snake powers, super awesomeness) oro would usually kill you just as soon look at you. thats not someone pleasant to be around, its actually very risky, he could just decide to kill you or take your body all of a sudden, because hes a frikin madman. yet kabuto put himself in danger in oro's presence so that he could become better himself. now look at him, mixing with the celebs. go kabuto! way to rise beyond your station bro!
oh and btw, i hate sasuke.
imo:
he is still a child.
he didnt/doesnt deserve what itachi did for him.
he doesnt deserve what naruto is doing for him either.
he is consumed by hatred and isnt strong enough to pull himself out, even with help (naruto, kakashi, sakura, etc.)
he doesnt deserve his powers, he uses them to do harm, rather than good. he didnt deserve his loving parents, he scars their memory/good name with every step he takes.
on the other side, i feel for sasuke.
his brother misled him.
his parents deserted him.
his teachers cant reach him.
his rival is naruto (lol)
he is a very good ninja.
he is not a total waste.
danzo needed to die, so thats enjoyable
remember early when naruto and sasuke fought haku?
sasuke took a hit for naruto.
hes saved naruto and sakura in the past.
that is the good sasuke that naruto wants to save.
and i bow to naruto's character for being strong enough to see past all the horrible things about sasuke and be able to remember those earlier days when sasuke wasnt a total friggin douche.
i hope that one day, sasuke will redeem himself, and help naruto save the world from these evil screwballs (kabuto, madara, sasuke)
thats what i want to see happen in the end.
sasuke finally sees the light that naruto shines, and turns from the darkness just in time to save himself and everyone else from a fate worse than death. duh duh duh forum rambling! oh no!!!O.O
well actually everyone is going strong because of others
naruto is learning from others but still remains a human ( expect the shinuricki in him but about that he had no choice )
on the other hand sasuke had sharingan, but sasuke get his mark from oro and decided to get even stronger with lvl 2 and trained also with oro, than gained mangekyo and eternal from itachi to become strong.
the diference is sasuke chosed to look like a monster and naruto had no influence about the kyubi.
about sasukes mentality i dont really understand cause before he fought danzo he was all ok he saw his team saving him and saved karin too ... but after the fight with danzo he turns against karin, even after she saved him ??? can he really be that stupid and why?
for me as a character and role sasuke s...ks cause he is just gaining his power with sharingan copy copy copy or oros mark or transpalnting eyes. he became disgusting in the end .. at the start sasuke was a good character but now i dont like him and thats the same with kabuto and madara, especialy kabuto hmpf
well since you refuse to see the facts, lets go over them.
first, the issue of yamato being captured, and you having a hope that it is simply a clone that was captured. i disagree, and firmly believe that he was captured.
a.) kabuto got the jump on yamato, he even shocked yamato first, with his appearance and obvious connection with orochimaru
b.) yamato was in the middle of using the wood tech, he was retracting it, actually.
and kabuto literally slithered right up his arm, over the trap tech to get to him.
c.) yamato used his last second to push motoi out of the way, thinking that maybe he could at least save his buddy, if not himself.
d.) kabuto is a S class ninja, who would not fall for something like a clone tech, and also he was fast enough to surprise everyone there. they all were shocked as he nabbed yamato and suddenly bolted away. no one reacted. therefore we can assume it was a lightning fast snatch by kabuto.
e.) all the jounin that were with yamato were saying he was kidnapped and were chasing after kabuto, knowing that he captured yamato.
f.) motoi obviously has some form of chakra recognition like the sage mode and some of the other ninja have had, like karin has. and he said that he couldnt sense kabuto or yamato anymore, meaning he wasnt like hiding in a tree nearby.
i think that more than proves that the real yamato was captured and will be forced to confront whatever it is that madara and kabuto and zetsu have planned for him.
onto the question of tobi being madara....
this one i admit is slightly more difficult to prove, but i believe we can come to an agreement if we look at what we know.
a.) lets look at what weve been told about madara, he has quite a history that dates back to the near beginning of ninjadom. he was born an uchiha and was the strongest of the clan. we heard that he took his own brothers eyes in an effort to become even more powerful and to be able to see again. we heard that he fought hashirama for the dominion of the leaf and that madara "lost". this is what we are to understand of history told from many different characters at different times in the story. so madara DOES exist, or at least did at one point, agreed?
b.)we know that itachi believed that madara still exists, he told sasuke truthfully that he had help killing the uchiha clan that night, and that it was madara. we can assume that itachi knew the truth about tobi being madara. are you saying that itachi was wrong about madara? and that madara doesnt exist? that tobi was just some IMPOSTER uchiha playing like madara? i find that to be ridiculous. itachi was an AMAZING ninja, and he put himself right in the thick were it mattered the most, right next to all the worst people in the world. (orochimaru, madara, etc) only a real uchiha like itachi himself and even one who is older and wiser would have been a threat to itachi. so from itachis connection to the plot we have discerned that not only did madara exist for real, he still does.
c.) if madara exists and tobi is NOT madara, then who the hell is madara and where is he? is zetsu really madara? i doubt that. he doesnt have sharingan and he hasnt claimed to be madara, while tobi does have sharingan and HAS claimed to be madara... another reason we can assume that tobi is madara, there is no one else who COULD be madara, other than tobi.
d.) statues were built in the honor of madara and the 1st's fight at the waterfall where naruto and sasuke fought. now i recall an image of tobi sitting on top of "his" statue at the waterfall at some point chillin like a villian. which is a dead giveaway almost on its own that tobi is madara. i mean comon, he is sitting on himself and basking in the fact that he is still alive. thats pretty obvious.
e.) the 4th fought "tobi" when naruto was born. the 4th immediately knew that this ninja was more powerful than anyone known to the him. he guessed instantly and accurately that "tobi" was in actuality madara. madara even tried to be funny by being like "but legend says he is dead". obviously madara was shocked that he had been recognized so quickly by the 4th who had never even met him. which means that just on reputation alone, madara was identified by the 4th. another clue that tobi is madara.
f.) need i say again, that tobi has infact CLAIMED to be madara. in someones ear as they die no less. that speaks volumes. you dont lie to someone whos dying about who you are. he wanted her to know who killed her, and thats why he said it madly and proudly "i am uchiha madara!"
i could go on and cite more examples of tobi being madara for real, but if you are still in denial then you are choosing to not see the truth, because you dont want to, and if thats the case then no amount of talking on my half can change that.
yet if you really do want to know, you will see this as the evidence that speaks beyond the chance that tobi is not madara.
sasuke calls tobi madara.
kakashi called tobi madara.
itachi called tobi madara.
thats 3 other sharingan users , 2 of them with actual uchiha blood, that believe that tobi is madara, who the hell are you to disagree with them?
one of them is dead for gods sake, have some respect for the dead. LOL.
but seriously....
you are smart at least.
nicely predicted, i had nearly forgotten about the ninjas following kabuto. if he traveled all the way to the island and back, you would think that the ninjas following him were able to call in some backup. maybe they will make a play to save yamato! that would be awesome!
nice prediction bro! though, that probably wont happen... there are 100k zetsus at that location to stop them from saving him. LOL.
i cant wait to see.
i wasnt targeting you directly and i wasnt whining, i was just saying.
i agree with pretty much everything you said about kabuto.
however, madara is so powerful that had that yamato been a clone, i think he wouldve instantly known. and that wouldve ruined the nice relationship that kabuto is trying to fake with madara. LOL.
its obviously not a clone though, kabuto wants the real yamato, and he wouldnt offer up a fake yamato to madara, like i said.
I'm glad there is still some people on here that gives strong arguments like yourself, I usually skim over the small one liners that usually are dull posts but to clear up what your saying about madara would of known if yamato is a clone. The sharingan can see which is a clone and which is the real person e.g. when Naruto & Sasuke fought at the valley of end, Sasuke said his Sharingan is able to see which Naruto wasn't a clone.
well since you refuse to see the facts, lets go over them.
first, the issue of yamato being captured, and you having a hope that it is simply a clone that was captured. i disagree, and firmly believe that he was captured.
a.) kabuto got the jump on yamato, he even shocked yamato first, with his appearance and obvious connection with orochimaru
b.) yamato was in the middle of using the wood tech, he was retracting it, actually.
and kabuto literally slithered right up his arm, over the trap tech to get to him.
c.) yamato used his last second to push motoi out of the way, thinking that maybe he could at least save his buddy, if not himself.
d.) kabuto is a S class ninja, who would not fall for something like a clone tech, and also he was fast enough to surprise everyone there. they all were shocked as he nabbed yamato and suddenly bolted away. no one reacted. therefore we can assume it was a lightning fast snatch by kabuto.
e.) all the jounin that were with yamato were saying he was kidnapped and were chasing after kabuto, knowing that he captured yamato.
f.) motoi obviously has some form of chakra recognition like the sage mode and some of the other ninja have had, like karin has. and he said that he couldnt sense kabuto or yamato anymore, meaning he wasnt like hiding in a tree nearby.
i think that more than proves that the real yamato was captured and will be forced to confront whatever it is that madara and kabuto and zetsu have planned for him.
onto the question of tobi being madara....
this one i admit is slightly more difficult to prove, but i believe we can come to an agreement if we look at what we know.
a.) lets look at what weve been told about madara, he has quite a history that dates back to the near beginning of ninjadom. he was born an uchiha and was the strongest of the clan. we heard that he took his own brothers eyes in an effort to become even more powerful and to be able to see again. we heard that he fought hashirama for the dominion of the leaf and that madara "lost". this is what we are to understand of history told from many different characters at different times in the story. so madara DOES exist, or at least did at one point, agreed?
b.)we know that itachi believed that madara still exists, he told sasuke truthfully that he had help killing the uchiha clan that night, and that it was madara. we can assume that itachi knew the truth about tobi being madara. are you saying that itachi was wrong about madara? and that madara doesnt exist? that tobi was just some IMPOSTER uchiha playing like madara? i find that to be ridiculous. itachi was an AMAZING ninja, and he put himself right in the thick were it mattered the most, right next to all the worst people in the world. (orochimaru, madara, etc) only a real uchiha like itachi himself and even one who is older and wiser would have been a threat to itachi. so from itachis connection to the plot we have discerned that not only did madara exist for real, he still does.
c.) if madara exists and tobi is NOT madara, then who the hell is madara and where is he? is zetsu really madara? i doubt that. he doesnt have sharingan and he hasnt claimed to be madara, while tobi does have sharingan and HAS claimed to be madara... another reason we can assume that tobi is madara, there is no one else who COULD be madara, other than tobi.
d.) statues were built in the honor of madara and the 1st's fight at the waterfall where naruto and sasuke fought. now i recall an image of tobi sitting on top of "his" statue at the waterfall at some point chillin like a villian. which is a dead giveaway almost on its own that tobi is madara. i mean comon, he is sitting on himself and basking in the fact that he is still alive. thats pretty obvious.
e.) the 4th fought "tobi" when naruto was born. the 4th immediately knew that this ninja was more powerful than anyone known to the him. he guessed instantly and accurately that "tobi" was in actuality madara. madara even tried to be funny by being like "but legend says he is dead". obviously madara was shocked that he had been recognized so quickly by the 4th who had never even met him. which means that just on reputation alone, madara was identified by the 4th. another clue that tobi is madara.
f.) need i say again, that tobi has infact CLAIMED to be madara. in someones ear as they die no less. that speaks volumes. you dont lie to someone whos dying about who you are. he wanted her to know who killed her, and thats why he said it madly and proudly "i am uchiha madara!"
i could go on and cite more examples of tobi being madara for real, but if you are still in denial then you are choosing to not see the truth, because you dont want to, and if thats the case then no amount of talking on my half can change that.
yet if you really do want to know, you will see this as the evidence that speaks beyond the chance that tobi is not madara.
sasuke calls tobi madara.
kakashi called tobi madara.
itachi called tobi madara.
thats 3 other sharingan users , 2 of them with actual uchiha blood, that believe that tobi is madara, who the hell are you to disagree with them?
one of them is dead for gods sake, have some respect for the dead. LOL.
but seriously....
You say you are looking for intelligent debate/conversation. Yet your posts are condescending, insulting, and dismissive. You are not looking for interaction beyond agreement. If this is what you wanted then why didn't you merely state as much already?
I suspect this insatiable need for attention is why you didn't even bother to quote my post before responding to it. Doing so would have destroyed the points you attempted to make.
in the end everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and you, frankly, seem as clueless as you accuse others of being. Kishimoto Masashi has enjoyed throwing twists at the readers since the beginning of the manga. He often gives every indication of one thing, only to pull back the veil and reveal it to be something completely different.
If everything points to Tobi being Madara, yet it still can't be confirmed, then perhaps it's a set up.
As to kabuto, my prediction is that he will end up replacing tobi/madara as the final villian.
He already is set up to use itachi to turn sasuke against tobi, obviously knows more about tobi than anyone except zetsu. Has led the ninja alliance to tobi's door step. And he's even working to modify the exsisting zetsu clones. Something I'm pretty sure will end up making them useless against kabuto.
Problem is, this is all too easy.
FYI we still don't know the truth of what happened with the Uchiha Massacre. Remember tobi has told the story twice now both times it was different, with itachi it's changed twice, and danzo even told a 5th version of events.
And the only supposed witness was an 8 yrold sasuke who could have easily been under a genjutsu.
didn't any body noticed on pg 12 or 13 when yamato is taken hostage something is coming out of his back.......some sort of wooden block.....
i guess it was just a wood clone.........
You say you are looking for intelligent debate/conversation. Yet your posts are condescending, insulting, and dismissive. You are not looking for interaction beyond agreement. If this is what you wanted then why didn't you merely state as much already?
I suspect this insatiable need for attention is why you didn't even bother to quote my post before responding to it. Doing so would have destroyed the points you attempted to make.
in the end everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and you, frankly, seem as clueless as you accuse others of being. Kishimoto Masashi has enjoyed throwing twists at the readers since the beginning of the manga. He often gives every indication of one thing, only to pull back the veil and reveal it to be something completely different.
If everything points to Tobi being Madara, yet it still can't be confirmed, then perhaps it's a set up.
As to kabuto, my prediction is that he will end up replacing tobi/madara as the final villian.
He already is set up to use itachi to turn sasuke against tobi, obviously knows more about tobi than anyone except zetsu. Has led the ninja alliance to tobi's door step. And he's even working to modify the exsisting zetsu clones. Something I'm pretty sure will end up making them useless against kabuto.
Problem is, this is all too easy.
FYI we still don't know the truth of what happened with the Uchiha Massacre. Remember tobi has told the story twice now both times it was different, with itachi it's changed twice, and danzo even told a 5th version of events.
And the only supposed witness was an 8 yrold sasuke who could have easily been under a genjutsu.
there is an element of mystery, thats true.
however, more often than not, things happen logically and i can usually tell what will happen next. im not clueless, and i really am looking for intellectual comment. agreement only, would be boring. i would prefer that people share their thoughts on the matter, as long as they have actually thought about it, and not simply reacted.
how can tobi being madara NOT be confirmed?
other people have called him madara.
he claims to be madara.
and he has everything about him that we would expect madara to be...
so how is he not madara?
what more would you need to convince you?
does he have to have madara tattooed on his forehead?
do you need to see his birth certificate??
kabuto is no longer simply himself it seems.
my opinion is that orochimaru and kabuto have become more than just partners. their wills and desires have joined into one being. im not sure what course he has set himself on. evil or not, kabuto is holding a surprise.
sasuke was/is definitely not in his right mind, i agree there.
and if there really are that many different stories of what happened
then maybe we cant trust that we know the exact details of that night.
however i would say that its clear enough what happened.
itachi's version was most likely true
he always told sasuke the truth, hidden deep in his words.
almost all the uchiha are dead, and danzo, itachi, and madara were the ones most directly responsible for that happening.
none of this is easy.
its all very complicated.
kishi has created an amazing story. <3
didn't any body noticed on pg 12 or 13 when yamato is taken hostage something is coming out of his back.......some sort of wooden block.....
i guess it was just a wood clone.........
youre not reading very closely.
the manga, or other peoples posts.
ive already said, and its obvious if you look at the frames and what yamato says, that he used that piece of wood coming out of his back to push motoi out of the way. it clearly shows a pic of motoi getting knocked out of the way by it, and yamato says "motoi-san, get away"
i dont want to be condescending, i just want to help show the truth, that is OBVIOUSLY BEING MISSED. I suppose i shouldnt care, and i should just laugh when i see ignorance. right? WRONG!
