That makes a little more sense. Kind of like when Itachi implanted Sauske with Amaratersu (however u spell it, not good with the spelling for the techs or spelling of their names) and he was able to use against Madara when he showcased his Sharingan to Sauske. But the 4th's FTG consisted of seals on items like a kunai. It takes knowledge and understanding the seals, unlike Itachi just implanting the eye tech into Sauske's eyes. There's just a bigger difference in that.
[Predictions] Naruto Manga 505 Discussion and 506 Predictions
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Jiraiya sensei
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Actually by definition if Naruto was using the FTG, then It could't be said that he is not yet a the fourth's level as his father had to use the preset seals on the kunai, if Naruto doesn't need these set up beforehand and can simply use th technique with out planning or anything marking his destination then it would be a level that far surpasses his fathers technique level and he would simply need practice to avoid his mistake, therefore even setting aside the well formed observations already made about the difference between teleportation and Space time techniques, simply going off of the statements made in the chapter one could deduce that again for yet another reason it is not the FTG.
sorry abt the spelling i dont post much on here so not used to spelling out the names...hpe its not a big problem.
The 2nd Hokage also used the same techinques although Minatos were supposed to be more advanced , yet his technique was not called FTG.. i may be wrong the point im trying to make is basing the fact that it is not FTG / space time ninjutsu just because of the seals doesnt prove that it is not space time jutsu....again Madara doesnt use seals yet we know that he uses space time ninjutsu. Allbeit he has probably at this time the most powerful sharingan which probably enables him to do so.
we dont know what the second had or if he used seals , we do know that you dont have to have seals
also considering having knowledge of seals, how did Naruto get the knowledge to perform he seal of the so6p?
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Jiraiya sensei
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I agree that his has to do with the sharingan.. especially when you consider how similar it is to Kakashi's sharingan technique.. I think they are in the same vein of technique just that Madara has taken it much much farther than Kakashi who has only started to develop it.. if you note the cyclone type warping both techniques make, and that Kakashi even references that it transports his target to a different dimension or something equivalent to that, it would make sense that with as much time and skill Madara has had, he could use it to take himself into and then back out of that dimensional warp or whatever you would like to call it.. furthermore, if this is correct, we can't discount the possibility that Sasuke also has the potential to develop such a technique.
Jiraiya sensei
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It could make sense, and would again suggest that sasuke could definitely develop the same type of technique, especially with the assumed boost Itatchi's eyes will grant him.. which would then answer the question everyone has been asking about how or what will sasuke get or learn that can counter Naruto's new speed/ potential that he will master the FTG.
actually the 4th beat Madara using seals , I think the 4th just perfected his type of time space jutsu and became the best at it,and if what Naruto is using is time space ninjutsu hes just a novice even if he doesn't need seals therefore "he is not yet at the fourths level"
All things being equal I just cant get by the fact that Killerbee who trained constantly with his brother the raikage, watched what happened and decided to call it teleportation , call it body flicker, call it highspeed call it what you want but im sure bee would have been able to tell the difference
Jiraiya sensei
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yes he did . . . I wasn't comparing Madara's technique.. simply Naruto and his fathers... the techniques specifically, and if one technique takes planning and pre-placed seals and such and the other is instant, no planning, no prerequisites, well comparing the techniques.. one is far superior to the other.. now if were talking about individuals and their personal masteries of their own separate techniques then BIG SHOCK, without any preparation in his first five seconds of having his new strength he instinctively attacks and it's not perfected yet, well I can't say i'm surprised.. but I'm thinking Yamato is a little more perceptive than that.. of course I'm not really answering any questions just voicing thoughts as they come...
Jiraiya sensei
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Well there have been several people who have pointed out that in the past in the Manga teleportation has been defined as a manipulation of speed. and time space is probably more what you are thinking, based on the manga body flicker can be considered a teleportation technique
I can say one thing your explanations do have basis and I cant argue with them.. The thing i cant seem to get my head around is the teleportation and speed issue, seems like 2 totally different things to me. like someone said earlier maybe I have just been watching too much star trek.
Also the fight with Madara and Minato it seemed that that fight was battle of speed , and i know that could have meant since they both use time space that it probably meant who would be the quickest to use time space jutsu...but what if it doesnt, what if its all centered on speed some believe that if you can travel fast enough you can travel thru time and space, or to other dimensions
Also the fight with Madara and Minato it seemed that that fight was battle of speed , and i know that could have meant since they both use time space that it probably meant who would be the quickest to use time space jutsu...but what if it doesnt, what if its all centered on speed some believe that if you can travel fast enough you can travel thru time and space, or to other dimensions
Jiraiya sensei
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weeeell, i guess you could make that a potential argument with Minato.. but due to the fact that Madara is definitely not a speed so fast it seems like it thing.. everything about his technique points directly to space time.. again refer to the link between his technique and Kakashi's both using the sharingan.. so it's an actual technique not just being fast.. their techniques result in the same whirlpool effect on the target .. and Kakashi himself defines it as pulling the target into an alternate dimension.. so space time is definitely space time not being super fast.. the question of who is faster with their battle is who can use said space time technique faster and with better timing.. and yes from a non Naruto vantage point teleportation does fall in a different category than beeing super fast. but in naruto.. it has been referenced as being variations of the same thing.. of course there is always room for error... but we work with what we have so far..
lol. I agree with you on all of the above ..So u do agree that the type of space time used by Madara and the technique used by kakashi are completely different than the ones used by Minato? but yet are still space time manipulations .
I also agree with you about the fact that this new power boost that Sauske is gonna get from itachi's eyes is gonna be limitless, it could be anything, not to exclude or include space time ninjutsu, forsight, etc.. or all of the above I have a feeling tho what ever it is its gonna be awesome.. Kishi isnt creating an ubber powerful Naruto , and not gonna have Sauske on par w/ him
I also agree with you about the fact that this new power boost that Sauske is gonna get from itachi's eyes is gonna be limitless, it could be anything, not to exclude or include space time ninjutsu, forsight, etc.. or all of the above I have a feeling tho what ever it is its gonna be awesome.. Kishi isnt creating an ubber powerful Naruto , and not gonna have Sauske on par w/ him
silenceofthelambs
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Sure, Sasuke's Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan are going to bring him many new powers, but even still, will they match up to what Naruto has gotten now? Sasuke is powerful, but at this point it seems like he's no match for Naruto, Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan included. I suppose its powers will be revealed soon (perhaps greater than Madara's Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, if he still has it, which is debatable), but I just get the feeling that Sasuke's hatred in battle is going to cause him to get badly defeated by Naruto. Naruto will tell him that Madara is the reason both of their lives have gone so wrong, and Sasuke will listen, or he might not. All those weapons you mentioned are impressive, but in the case of overwhelming speed, Sasuke is going to have to watch his back at all times. Yes, Madara did not actually get beaten by Minato, but I don't think that Minato would win if he fought Madara with all his power. Remember, before and during his fight with Hashirama, Madara was said to have been the most dangerous Shinobi that ever lived, but of course Hashirama disproved that statement in their battle that scarred the earth itself.
Madara, even in his current state, if fighting Minato, would just remain permeable until he could catch Minato in a vulnerable state, thereby defeating him. Madara wanted to defeat Minato as quickly as possible because his control of the Nine-Tailed Fox would not remain for an extended period of time, so he had to act quickly. But if the Nine-Tails were not part of the equation, none of Minato's attacks would work, and it would give Madara all the chances needed to catch Minato off guard. I suppose that since the Nine-Tails had been pulled from his control, Madara saw no reason to stay (fighting Minato just to ensure he doesn't get in the way of the fox's rampage), and made the wiser (in my opinion) decision of leaving instead of prolonging the fight, especially in his weakened state.
Well, in any case, I look forward to seeing Sasuke's new powers. If Sasuke, using his new eyes, is able to detect weaknesses in Naruto's powers, then things might get much more interesting.
Please read carefully. I said "If it's not blood line limit, then surely all the jounin would be capable of doing it to some degree." My "to some degree" is similar to your "talent and skill" concept I think.
So far we know 5 people that can do Rasengan not 4. You missed Konohamaru. Now Rasengan is an A-rank jutsu, it's a shape manipulation techniques, but the reason not a lot of people can do it is mainly because it's not taught widely. It's very hard to master, because before Naruto, you have to have excellent chakra control to master it. Naruto use a clone to do Rasengan, that way you don't need excellent chakra control, hence Naruto and Konohamaru are able to do it.
Sage mode is even more picky than Rasengan, you need a teacher with you all the time at first and then you have to learn it in mount frog (at least if you want to learn it fast). Even then if you are too successful, you turn into a stone frog. The fact is sage mode is not blood line limit, everyone could learn it, you don't need certain blood line to do it. The frog stones in mount frog are the prove.
Just because some jutsu only mastered by few people doesn't make it a blood line limit jutsu. Blood line limit jutsu is a jutsu that can only be performed by someone with specific blood line. Now the manga told us that the 2nd, 4th and Tobi all has space/time jutsu. If the space/time jutsu is not blood line limit, please think the points below:
1. Logically the 4th learnt it from Jiraiya.
2. Surely Kakashi the copy ninja would be able to do it.
3. It won't hurt Konoha to have a lot of shinobis with space/time jutsu.
4. Surely all the Konoha's badasses should be able to do it, the sannins, the 3rd, Danzo, Itachi, etc.
5. With enough people (say 5 at the same time) mastered the space/time jutsu then Konoha would be unbeatable. Look what a trouble Tobi is. Look what Minato capable of, sending the 9 tails attack elsewhere.
You could have all the creativity in the world, you may have all the talents in the world, you might have never gave up attitude all you like, but if it's a blood line limit jutsu and you don't have the blood line part, then you WON'T MASTERED that jutsu.
Does anyone think that Maby during the time that Naruto was setting at the Ramen shop to when he got to the island that maby Kakashi gave Naruto the kunai that the 4th gave him & during the fight with Kisame he will make some big wave & Naruto will use the kunia like the 4th did against the Kyuubi
kyubikiran
Member
as for ur questions, i do have a theory...So6p when dividing the juubi might have kept some of his chakra along with the techniques in 9 tails, coz everybody knows its the strongest bijuu if any body can control it, he might be the one like him, with a kind heart and good intentinos
that just a theory though and it can be true considering how people can store their chakras in others when dying..
This is exactly what im saying, I was being sarcastic in my post. I thought YOU were the one saying that the 4th's FTG could be a blood line limit...
When I was talking about creativity, talent and skill, I was reffering to upgrading jutsu or making your own like Kakashi. And no rasengan wouldnt be taught somewhere else because its a hidden leaf jutsu and everyone knows how it is when a ninja goes rogue...
In my opinion, you are right, teleportation and speed are 2 totally different things. I want to make something clear though, for me teleportation is a process that make you move from point A to point B at the blink of an eye. Teleportation differ from body flicker in the range of the movement. Teleportation is a part of space/time jutsu, while body flicker is simply fast moves.
Here are my thinkings:
1. Normal teleportation is something that Tobi use all the time. He could go anywhere he wants, no need for a seal, but there is a catch, it's not that fast.
2. Minato solved the speed problem by using seals and his destination points, but he gained that speed by sacrificing the destination flexibility.
3. Madara has a very advance space/time jutsu. He could do something alike the startrek dissolving and rebuilding his own body. When he faced Minato, he needed to defeat Minato fast, and he won't be able to defeat Minato without attacking. By attacking Minato he has to make himself solid, that's why Minato said by attacking Madara took a risk of being hit. That's why Madara vs Minato was a battle of speed because Minato could only hit Madara when Madara was solid, a split second befor Madara landed his attack.
4. Minato did something more than only hit Madara. He put at least 3 seals somewhere in Madara body. The 1st seal was the FTG destination seal, the 2nd seal was the contract termination seal, and the 3rd was a seal to make Madara solid. Those seals were the reasons Madara got beaten.
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