Naruto and RSM.

[chaos control]

I never said that Naruto and Sasuke don't have Sage Chakra. I simply stated that if the chakra is gone from from their bodies, then, at least Sasuke wouldn't lose Rinnegan. The mutation has already happened. Just like, for example, Kakashi's Sharingan mutated because of Obito. A sharingan cannot mutate without the release of a special Uchiha chakra within the head. But the mutation had happened, and the eye had already changed. It was not going to revert back just because Kakashi didn't release Uchiha chakra into his brain.

Second we have Nagato's example. Madara was the one who experience the mutation in his eyes. But the eyes had already mutated. Even when they were parted from the original chakra source - whether it was inside his brain or body - the eyes still remained Rinnegan and Nagato kept using them. This is the best way I can explain it.

With Sasuke, I agree. Even with Hogoromo's chakra, he shouldn't be able to shift dimensions. As 1) it's half the chakra and 2) the technique is too taxing even for Kaguya whose chakra far exceeds Hogoromo's full reserves. But, he is able to. Why? Because 1) his Chakra Control is at the Sage's level, and we know from part one that the more the CC, the less chakra is used and viceversa. 2) His chakra is extremely powerful and he can manage far more with less. We have known this from the start. 3) He already had a similar technique and got better.

These three factors make up for the large chakra. That is the only logical explanation.

That is slightly wrong. Naruto, for one, cannot use two Sage Modes at the same time, so it certainly isn't a combo of BSM and Sage of the Six Paths mode, which is RSM. When he kicked the orb, he was using RSM. He was given Senjutsu chakra from the sage, which results in "Sage of the Six Path Mode". This, combined with the chunks of chakra from all Bijuus results in that black and yellow cloak and TSBs. It isn't an RSM cloak. If you recall, Obito immediately gained a TSB when he pulled out Senjutsu chakra and Bijuu chakra from Madara's body. This Senjutsu also allowed Kakashi to use that ill-fated PS.

I don't believe both of them have lost Sage's Chakra. It seems less possible for Sasuke, to be honest. The meeting place has nothing to do with Sage Chakra, it's just Ninshuu; something Naruto did well before he even combined his Chakra with his Frog Sage Mode. My two cents.

I see your point with some stuff, but I slightly disagree with some others.

1. You said that the meeting place thing had to do with ninshuu, but that actually had nothing to do with ninshuu. Hagoromo specifically stated that Naruto would be the meeting place because Naruto had all the bijuus' chakara. Remember that all of the bijuus even showed up inside of Naruto's subconscious when Naruto was talking to Hagoromo (when Hagoromo asked Naruto what his plans were after the war). Those bijuus were able to show up because their chakara was inside Naruto. Furthermore, bijuus are able to telepathically communicate with other chakara manifestations of themselves (as evidenced by yang Kurama who was in Naruto asking yin Kurama who was inside Minato at the time for some chakara during the battle against Obito even though Naruto and Minato were a good distance away from each other). That is how Naruto is supposed to be the meeting place. All of the bijuus, no matter where they are in the world, should be able to communicate/connect with their own chakara manifestation that is inside Naruto, and in turn that chakara manifestation inside Naruto could communicate with the other bijuus' chakara manifestations inside Naruto. You are right however, in saying that this meeting has nothing to do with rikudou chakara. It just has to do with bijuu chakara.

2. I disagree that the rikudou chakara is gone from Naruto's body, as the mode Naruto is using in Gaiden does seem to be RSM. Now remember the fact that as you said, RSM is actually the form that Naruto donned when he kicked Madara's truth seeking ball (which was near identical to his base form save for the BSM looking eyes). The cloak and the truth seeking balls came from RSM+bijuu chakaras. Now notice that in RSM (the one that looks like base Naruto), Naruto lacks the toad sage mode pigmentation around the eyes. The same statement holds true even when Naruto does apply the bijuu chakaras and gains the cloak and truth seeking balls. Well if you look at Gaiden Naruto's mode, notice that he has the BSM/RSM eyes, yet he lacks the toad sage mode pigmentation around his eyes. This implies that it is RSM. His cloak doesn't have truth seeking balls as well as the magatama and rinnegan symbol on his back because he is using RSM and applying only Kurama's chakara (not all 9 bijuus).

At the end of the day, whether or not Naruto still has the version of RSM we all came to know back in the war depends upon whether or not he has the other bijuus' chakaras.

 

[Ace95]

Can someone explain why they think you need the chakra of all the tailed beasts to make TSB when Toneri was shown with TSB without having any ckakra from the tailed beasts?

 

[Shanks]

I am really unsure about his RSM he doesn't have TSB around him that means he no longer has this power . There is a chance he can no longer use Six path senjutsu gave by Hago but he gained by complete formation of kurama that's huge advantage for unlimited chakra like Naruto.

 

[PT1990]

It seems less possible for Sasuke, to be honest. The meeting place has nothing to do with Sage Chakra, it's just Ninshuu; something Naruto did well before he even combined his Chakra with his Frog Sage Mode. My two cents.

Shouldnt Naruto be able to enter RSM just by having chakras of 9 Bijuus? I dont remember Madara or Obito having any gifts from Sage.

 

[shadowcb]

People are still trying to claim that BS. Wow. Naruto Gaiden already confirmed Naruto still have RSM. If you look at the trail we dont' see the dark pigmentation around his eyes. Just because he not using the TSB in the trailer doesn't mean he lost them or RSM. The manga proved Naruto can use RSM without activating the TSB.

Beside I don't see Sasuke using the rinnegan in the trialer. Do that mean he no loner possess it? Just to be fair I'm going to assume you believe Sasuke lost the rinnegan since he doesn't show it.

 

[shelke]

Shouldnt Naruto be able to enter RSM just by having chakras of 9 Bijuus? I dont remember Madara or Obito having any gifts from Sage.

RSM is a Sage Mode. It's also called Sage of the Six Paths Mode or Rikoudo Sage Mode. It's a result of the Senjutsu chakra the Sage gave him. It doesn't have anything to do with Bijuu chakra. Naruto cannot use that black and Yellowish cloak without Senjutsu and Bijuu chakra, as both of them are required to produce TSBs.

Madara attained the Sage's Senjutsu via Juubi and the combination of the Transmigrants chakra. It seems to sprout when all Bijuu chakra is combined.

 

[shelke]

I see your point with some stuff, but I slightly disagree with some others.

1. You said that the meeting place thing had to do with ninshuu, but that actually had nothing to do with ninshuu. Hagoromo specifically stated that Naruto would be the meeting place because Naruto had all the bijuus' chakara. Remember that all of the bijuus even showed up inside of Naruto's subconscious when Naruto was talking to Hagoromo (when Hagoromo asked Naruto what his plans were after the war). Those bijuus were able to show up because their chakara was inside Naruto. Furthermore, bijuus are able to telepathically communicate with other chakara manifestations of themselves (as evidenced by yang Kurama who was in Naruto asking yin Kurama who was inside Minato at the time for some chakara during the battle against Obito even though Naruto and Minato were a good distance away from each other). That is how Naruto is supposed to be the meeting place. All of the bijuus, no matter where they are in the world, should be able to communicate/connect with their own chakara manifestation that is inside Naruto, and in turn that chakara manifestation inside Naruto could communicate with the other bijuus' chakara manifestations inside Naruto. You are right however, in saying that this meeting has nothing to do with rikudou chakara. It just has to do with bijuu chakara.

2. I disagree that the rikudou chakara is gone from Naruto's body, as the mode Naruto is using in Gaiden does seem to be RSM. Now remember the fact that as you said, RSM is actually the form that Naruto donned when he kicked Madara's truth seeking ball (which was near identical to his base form save for the BSM looking eyes). The cloak and the truth seeking balls came from RSM+bijuu chakaras. Now notice that in RSM (the one that looks like base Naruto), Naruto lacks the toad sage mode pigmentation around the eyes. The same statement holds true even when Naruto does apply the bijuu chakaras and gains the cloak and truth seeking balls. Well if you look at Gaiden Naruto's mode, notice that he has the BSM/RSM eyes, yet he lacks the toad sage mode pigmentation around his eyes. This implies that it is RSM. His cloak doesn't have truth seeking balls as well as the magatama and rinnegan symbol on his back because he is using RSM and applying only Kurama's chakara (not all 9 bijuus).

At the end of the day, whether or not Naruto still has the version of RSM we all came to know back in the war depends upon whether or not he has the other bijuus' chakaras.

1: Naruto was able to attain their chakra because of Ninshuu well before this incident. He had their chakra after he removed the chakra stakes Obito had used on them. Naruto is able to become the meeting place because of Ninshuu. That is how he connected everyone's memories to each other during war.

The Bijuu chakra can always run out. It isn't an infinite source. Nor can it regenerate inside his body. He has to ask for more. How will he do that, when at the end of the fight he ran out of Kurama's chakra as well? Through Ninshuu, like I told you.

2: RSM is Rikoudo Sage Mode. It isn't a cloak. I never once said he lost it. When Naruto kicked the orb, he was using the mode already. It's a Sage mode just like any other. It is a result of the Senjutsu chakra the Sage gave him. It's also called the Sage of the Six Paths mode. The yellow and blackish cloak isn't RSM, but a combination of RSM or Sage's Senjutsu and chakra of all the Bijuus, which produces TSBs as well.

That cloak can be easily lost if Bijuu chakra is lost. He needs to ask for it and then amalgamate it with his RSM to use that cloak. For that, Ninshuu is enough. Now you understand my point?

 

[Dantee]

Naruto needs all 9 bijuus for RSM.

 

[PT1990]

RSM is a Sage Mode. It's also called Sage of the Six Paths Mode or Rikoudo Sage Mode. It's a result of the Senjutsu chakra the Sage gave him. It doesn't have anything to do with Bijuu chakra. Naruto cannot use that black and Yellowish cloak without Senjutsu and Bijuu chakra, as both of them are required to produce TSBs.

Madara attained the Sage's Senjutsu via Juubi and the combination of the Transmigrants chakra. It seems to sprout when all Bijuu chakra is combined.

Alright, so what about Obito?

 

[Merkel]

Once the movie is out and the manga is finished I will accept it.

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

Can someone explain why they think you need the chakra of all the tailed beasts to make TSB when Toneri was shown with TSB without having any ckakra from the tailed beasts?

Don't bring fodder toneri into this. Toneri's TSB comes from his Tenseigan. They don't even seem to be the same as Naruto's or Madara's

 

[shelke]

Alright, so what about Obito?

Already explained that: acquiring the Juubi results in the Chakra Sprout. It allots the same power as the power of the Sage of the Six Paths.

 

[chaos control]

1: Naruto was able to attain their chakra because of Ninshuu well before this incident. He had their chakra after he removed the chakra stakes Obito had used on them. Naruto is able to become the meeting place because of Ninshuu. That is how he connected everyone's memories to each other during war.

The Bijuu chakra can always run out. It isn't an infinite source. Nor can it regenerate inside his body. He has to ask for more. How will he do that, when at the end of the fight he ran out of Kurama's chakra as well? Through Ninshuu, like I told you.


2: RSM is Rikoudo Sage Mode. It isn't a cloak. I never once said he lost it. When Naruto kicked the orb, he was using the mode already. It's a Sage mode just like any other. It is a result of the Senjutsu chakra the Sage gave him. It's also called the Sage of the Six Paths mode. The yellow and blackish cloak isn't RSM, but a combination of RSM or Sage's Senjutsu and chakra of all the Bijuus, which produces TSBs as well.

That cloak can be easily lost if Bijuu chakra is lost. He needs to ask for it and then amalgamate it with his RSM to use that cloak. For that, Ninshuu is enough. Now you understand my point?

Bold: You are misunderstanding my post. I am not saying that Naruto first got the bijuus while he was talking to Hagoromo. I am saying that they were the manifestations of the bijuu chakara within Naruto. Also, that was not ninshuu when Naruto got the bijuu chakaras after pulling the stakes from the bijuus. In fact, Naruto didn't even do anything to purposely get to that realm where Naruto met the bijuus. It was Kurama that drug Naruto into that level of subconsciousness. Kurama stated that they were able to go to that level now that Naruto had linked up with Kurama and gone BM. Kurama and the other tailed beasts were already able to communicate and link with each other. That is why Kurama was able to bring Naruto to that area and have Naruto meet the bijuus. It had nothing to do with ninshuu.

Ninshuu is the exchange of spiritual energy between people, which allows the people to feel each others' thoughts and communicate without words. Naruto didn't exchange any spiritual energy with the bijuus. Kurama just brought him there.

2. You misunderstood and thought that I said that RSM was a cloak. I didn't. I actually agreed with you and said that it wasn't the cloak. Here is a quote from my previous post:

"RSM is actually the form that Naruto donned when he kicked Madara's truth seeking ball (which was near identical to his base form save for the BSM looking eyes)"

I then went on to say that RSM (the one that looks like base) + bijuu chakaras = the cloak/ truth seeking balls

Additionally, the bijuu chakaras don't run out. Here is why I say this:

The bijuu chakaras inside of Naruto manifested into the form of the actual bijuus (as shown in the Kaguya fight). Whenever bijuu chakara manifests into the actual bijuu, that chakara is permanent and the person officially becomes the jinchuuriki of said bijuu. How do I know this? It is because yin Kurama and yang Kurama were both technically just portions of the full Kurama. Yet Naruto never just ran out of yang Kurama. Yang Kurama never just disappeared once Naruto used him too much. The same goes for Yin Kurama as well. When a jinchuuriki "runs out" of their bijuu's chakara, the bijuu simply goes to sleep within the jinchuuriki (as stated by yin Kurama in the valley of end 2 fight) and they just can't give any more chakara to their jinchuuriki while they are asleep. The bijuu does however wake up eventually once they regain their chakara. If this was not the case, then Naruto would have died due to losing his bijuu once Kurama's chakara ran out at the end of the fight against Sasuke.

In summary, any portion of bijuu chakara that manifests into the whole beast is permanent. It is just portions that don't manifest into the whole beast that aren't permanent.

 

[shelke]

Bold: You are misunderstanding my post. I am not saying that Naruto first got the bijuus while he was talking to Hagoromo. I am saying that they were the manifestations of the bijuu chakara within Naruto. Also, that was not ninshuu when Naruto got the bijuu chakaras after pulling the stakes from the bijuus. In fact, Naruto didn't even do anything to purposely get to that realm where Naruto met the bijuus. It was Kurama that drug Naruto into that level of subconsciousness. Kurama stated that they were able to go to that level now that Naruto had linked up with Kurama and gone BM. Kurama and the other tailed beasts were already able to communicate and link with each other. That is why Kurama was able to bring Naruto to that area and have Naruto meet the bijuus. It had nothing to do with ninshuu.

Ninshuu is the exchange of spiritual energy between people, which allows the people to feel each others' thoughts and communicate without words. Naruto didn't exchange any spiritual energy with the bijuus. Kurama just brought him there.

2. You misunderstood and thought that I said that RSM was a cloak. I didn't. I actually agreed with you and said that it wasn't the cloak. Here is a quote from my previous post:

"RSM is actually the form that Naruto donned when he kicked Madara's truth seeking ball (which was near identical to his base form save for the BSM looking eyes)"

I then went on to say that RSM (the one that looks like base) + bijuu chakaras = the cloak/ truth seeking balls

Additionally, the bijuu chakaras don't run out. Here is why I say this:

The bijuu chakaras inside of Naruto manifested into the form of the actual bijuus (as shown in the Kaguya fight). Whenever bijuu chakara manifests into the actual bijuu, that chakara is permanent and the person officially becomes the jinchuuriki of said bijuu. How do I know this? It is because yin Kurama and yang Kurama were both technically just portions of the full Kurama. Yet Naruto never just ran out of yang Kurama. Yang Kurama never just disappeared once Naruto used him too much. The same goes for Yin Kurama as well. When a jinchuuriki "runs out" of their bijuu's chakara, the bijuu simply goes to sleep within the jinchuuriki (as stated by yin Kurama in the valley of end 2 fight) and they just can't give any more chakara to their jinchuuriki while they are asleep. The bijuu does however wake up eventually once they regain their chakara. If this was not the case, then Naruto would have died due to losing his bijuu once Kurama's chakara ran out at the end of the fight against Sasuke.

In summary, any portion of bijuu chakara that manifests into the whole beast is permanent. It is just portions that don't manifest into the whole beast that aren't permanent.

- What is Ninshuu? Once you understand that, you'll understand my point. Ninshuu is not an exchange of spiritual energy, but a chakra relay system. Naruto didn't share anything other than Bijuu chakra with others. This connected all of them together and they could see into eachother's thoughts. This is what Ninshuu is.

- I disagree with the rest. Without communication, the chakra can run out, as it happened.

Your posts are very long, man.

 

[TrollKing]

Supersayian mode needs to always have supersayian's blood to activate

Like naruto superman mode always need rikudo power to activate

But rinnegan is there always once its awakened. And sasuke was gonna get rinnegan regardless

 

[PT1990]

Already explained that: acquiring the Juubi results in the Chakra Sprout. It allots the same power as the power of the Sage of the Six Paths.

Therefore Naruto still can have something similar to RSM if he ask Bijuus for chakra, right?

 

[shelke]

Therefore Naruto still can have something similar to RSM if he ask Bijuus for chakra, right?

He already has RSM, man. He doesn't need Bijuu chakra for that.

 

[Transcendence]

Naruto got the other half of the kyuubi + possibly wood release. That makes up for losing RSM.

I don't understand how you believe that at all.

Rikudou chakra is on an entirely different tier than pure Bijuu power. Full Kurama Naruto at best maxes out somewhere near SM Hashirama. Whereas Rikudou chakra Naruto laughs at Hashirama. Sasuke would be several tiers above Naruto if he still has his Rin'negan (which he does, with the tomoes) and Naruto lost RSM only to gain a slightly improved BSM. It doesn't make any sense. I get that he hasn't shown his cloaked RSM since the manga ended, but this isn't conclusive proof that he doesn't have it. Plus, there's no way Sasuke could beat a Kaguya level villain by himself, so Naruto using only BSM is stupid. He'll pull out RSM.

 

[Amaterasu]

It's unaccaeptable !

 

[UchihasRightfulHeir]

I don't understand how you believe that at all.

Rikudou chakra is on an entirely different tier than pure Bijuu power. Full Kurama Naruto at best maxes out somewhere near SM Hashirama. Whereas Rikudou chakra Naruto laughs at Hashirama. Sasuke would be several tiers above Naruto if he still has his Rin'negan (which he does, with the tomoes) and Naruto lost RSM only to gain a slightly improved BSM. It doesn't make any sense. I get that he hasn't shown his cloaked RSM since the manga ended, but this isn't conclusive proof that he doesn't have it. Plus, there's no way Sasuke could beat a Kaguya level villain by himself, so Naruto using only BSM is stupid. He'll pull out RSM.

It not about what you think is fair. Kishi was going to give Naruto a second half of the kyuubi. That is a power up. Kishi keeps them equal. What would he have given Sasuke?
You arnt kishi. To kishi this might seem fair. Or as fair as he could make things.