Nagato outsmarted/overpowered by Itachi

Paintachi

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If u open please read everything :D
Read both parts Itachi and Nagato/pain then u will c its a good draw and both are closely equal to each other.




Itachi
The matchup in question for this incarnation of the Great Debate is Itachi vs Nagato. While Nagato is certainly a powerful opponent, we believe that Itachi would be the clear victor in such a contest. In this speech, I will support this assertion by discussing Itachi's prowess with the Mangekyou Sharingan, his skill in other ninjutsu and genjutsu, his taijutsu capabilities, and the tactics he would use to overwhelm Nagato's own powers.

Hype

Some of the most skilled and powerful shinobi in the manga have shown respect for Itachi's capabilities. Tobi stated that if Itachi had known about his intangibility, he would be dead, and also that Itachi could have killed Sasuke if he'd wanted to. Danzou praised not only Itachi's ideology, but also his genjutsu prowess, calling Sasuke's impressive illusions "as far below him as the land is below the sky." Orochimaru's successor Kabuto claimed that Itachi was on "another level" from the other Edo Tenseis--who include Kages and other Akatsuki members.

The Mangekyou Sharingan

The most powerful weapon in Itachi's arsenal, the Mangekyou Sharingan affords the user three different jutsu, each of which is a "game-breaker" in its own right.

Tsukiyomi

The Mangekyou's genjutsu can be used as a means of either physical or psychological torture. Tsukiyomi is so harrowing that it completely incapacitated even Hatake Kakashi. While he used physical torture in that case, he chose to inflict psychological trauma on Sasuke, and could use his considerable intelligence to gauge which tactic would be more effective against Nagato.

An additional element to consider here is that, while Nagato possesses a doujutsu of his own, it clearly doesn't grant him genjutsu immunity, since he was captured by Magen: Gamarinsho. Thus, he should be just as vulnerable to Tsukiyomi as the doujutsu user Kakashi was.

Amaterasu

Like Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu takes effect in an instant--Nagato himself was unable to react to it until it had already taken hold. As if this weren't dangerous enough, the flames of Amaterasu can spread.

Amaterasu is even more deadly because Itachi doesn't need to stand still to cast it. On the contrary, he cast it while running while escaping Jiraiya's "inescapable" Toad Stomach.

The nature of Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu presents an additional danger for Nagato. The best way to determine that Amaterasu is about to be cast is to look for the blood-tear from Itachi's left eye. However, this would require looking at Itachi's eye, making Nagato vulnerable to Tsukiyomi. Conversely, avoiding eye contact is the only way to make oneself safe from Tsukiyomi, but this makes it much harder to predict an impending Amaterasu. Even if Nagato sensed the chakra buildup preceding Amaterasu, he would still need to make eye contact to determine precisely when Amaterasu is going to be cast.

Susano'o

The final Mangekyou jutsu is perhaps the most potent, as it provides both offense and defense. According to the Databook, the Yata no Kagami can change its chakra type to perfectly counter any ninjutsu used against it. Itachi has also shown himself capable of erecting Susano'o at astonishing speed.

Beyond this, Susano'o also possesses two other legendary treasures: the Sword of Totsuka and the Yasaka no Magatama. The Sword of Totsuka seals everything it touches into an eternal genjutsu. Given that the Sword is presumably made of chakra, one might assume that it would be useless in the face of Nagato's Hungry Ghost Realm ability. The manga says otherwise, however: when Nagato was pierced by the Sword, he was unable to absorb it. The Magatama, meanwhile, is clearly meant to be a long-range attack, and helped to stop Nagato's Chibaku Tensei.

Other Ninjutsu

Katons

In addition to Amaterasu, Itachi can muster two other katons. The Uchiha Clan's signature ninjutsu, Katon: Gokakyu, is particularly notable due to its size, which allows it to block LOS. This gives Itachi the opportunity to carry out bunshin feints or other trickery.

Katon: Housenka Tsumabeni may be less impressive than Gokakyu, but it takes advantage of Itachi's superb weapon mastery, and also seems to be a very quick attack. In addition, Nagato's immediate reaction to such a jutsu would most likely be to absorb the flames, which would result in his being pierced by the shuriken concealed within them.

Bunshins

Itachi has shown us two unique variants on that old standby, Kage Bunshin. First is Karasu Bunshin, which has a major advantage for Itachi in that it requires less chakra than the standard Kage Bunshin, and which can also discorporate into its component crows. Second is the Exploding Bunshin, which is self-explanatory.

Itachi's bunshinjutsu is especially potent when combined with distractions or LOS-blockers. As described above, we've seen Itachi use ninjutsu as a cover for a bunshin feint; this tactic becomes even more dangerous when the bunshin in question can cast genjutsu or blow up in the opponent's face.

Other Genjutsu

As mentioned above, one of the advantages of Itachi's Karasu Bunshin is that it can discorporate into individual crows. What makes this property even more powerful is that some of the crows have Sharingan of their own, and thus can cast genjutsu. While avoiding Itachi's single pair of eyes is possible, avoiding all the eyes of a flock of crows that's swarming all around the opponent would be extraordinarily difficult to do.

Even basic Sharingan genjutsu is deadly in Itachi's hands. Naruto, with jinchuuriki levels of chakra, was unable to break Itachi's base genjutsu by perturbing his own chakra. The same encounter shows Itachi to be adept at psychological manipulation through genjutsu: he showed Naruto visions of people he cared about saying that they were disappointed in him, correctly assessing Naruto's personality to calculate what would hurt him most. Agains an opponent like Nagato, who has suffered great emotional trauma in the past, such a tactic would be highly effective.

In addition, his eyes are not the only tools Itachi can use to cast genjutsu. With Utakata, he can cast genjutsu with his fingers as well. With no knowledge on this technique, Nagato will probably look at Itachi's hands in order to see what seals he's making--and in so doing, will insure that he gets caught in an illusion.

Nor does Itachi need to rely on "flashy" genjutsu to destroy his opponent. As we saw in the Sasuke vs Danzou fight, even a subtle genjutsu can turn the tide of a battle--and even a doujutsu doesn't provide protection against a genjutsu cast by a Mangekyou master. He could even trick Nagato into destroying himself, similar to the strategy he used when fighting Deidara.

Finally, the incident in which he cut off Orochimaru's hand showed that he can still move even while participating in a genjutsu. Thus, even if Nagato does manage to break through the genjutsu, he will emerge from the illusion only to find that Itachi has already seized the initiative and is probably about to kill him with one of the many other moves in his arsenal.

Taijutsu

Speed

One of Itachi's major advantages in a taijutsu contest is his remarkable speed. He was able to keep up with Rikudou Mode Naruto and Killer Bee in close-quarters combat, and made handseals so fast that even Kakashi's Sharingan wasn't able to follow them. Additionally, he conjured a Kage Bunshin in the middle of his rapid-fire shuriken exchange with Sasuke, a feat that astonished the younger Uchiha. Finally, when fighting Nagato, he grabbed Naruto and Bee, blinded Nagato's summons, and cut off Nagato's arm, all in one fluid movement.

Weapon Usage

From a young age, Itachi excelled at the use of kunai and shuriken. Even before the Massacre, we saw him hit targets that were in his blind spot, and during his final battle with Sasuke, he threw shuriken at blinding speed. He also casually destroyed two of Naruto's Kage Bunshin. And it's not only targets in his own blind spot that he can hit: during his fight with Edo Nagato, we saw him negate Nagato's shared vision with his summons by attacking their blind spots.

Intelligence

The Databook gives Itachi a genius-level Intelligence score of 5, and this has been backed up by feats. For example, in the heat of battle, he analyzed Nagato's Chibaku Tensei and devised a way to counter it.

Stamina

Many people consider Itachi's stamina to be his greatest weakness, but in fact he's capable of using a sequence of powerful jutsu in quick succession. In his final battle against his brother, Itachi used several ordinary genjutsu, Kage Bunshin, Tsukiyomi, Gokakyu (twice), Amaterasu (twice), and Susano'o (twice). During his fight against Naruto and Bee (and later Nagato as well), he used Katon: Gokakyu, Kage Bunshin, Katon: Housenka Tsumabeni, Sharingan genjutsu, Koto Amatsukami, Amaterasu (three times), and Susano'o. And in this second instance, he wasn't even tired afterward--a feat that was not due solely to his undead nature, as the Nidaime Mizukage's body was weakened after he used Jokey Boy, and Nagato had to absorb chakra from Bee and Naruto to restore his body.

Counters to Nagato's Abilities

Much of this will be discussed by our later speakers, so I will simply address a few points briefly.

Even without having the Six Paths in separate bodies, Nagato can still take advantage of the Rinnegan's shared vision by bringing Animal Realm's summons onto the field. However, Itachi's fight with the Edo Tensei Nagato showed that he can negate this advantage by blinding the summons with simple projectile weapons.

Deva Path's powers, collectively, are probably the most powerful weapons Nagato possesses. But these too can be countered by Itachi. We've seen that Susano'o is capable of grabbing people, which means that it should be able to hold onto Itachi and anchor him against Bansho Tenin and even Chibaku Tensei's gravitational pull.

Aside from Deva, Asura Path is probably the most destructive of Nagato's "avatars". However, the defense of Susano'o will stop missiles and lasers cold.

Conclusion

Nagato is a formidable opponent, but Itachi's Mangekyou jutsu, mastery of genjutsu, speed, and intelligence grant him clear superiority. He can protect himself from Nagato's attacks while overpowering Nagato's own defenses. The Rinnegan may be "greater" than the Sharingan in terms of sheer power, but sheer power isn't all that matters in a contest between ninja. In addition to his own overwhelming puissance, Itachi also possesses exceptional skill--the skill of a man who graduated from the Academy at 7, was promoted to Chuunin at 10, was granted captaincy of an ANBU squad at 13, and defeated a Sannin with ease in his early teens. This skill will give Itachi the edge against Nagato, and we believe that he would emerge victorious if the two of them were to fight.

Nagato


While defensive measures are important and will be taken by Nagato, it is very important to elaborate on his offensive capabilities. Even compared to Uchiha Madara, Nagato's abilities are the most destructive in the manga. Countering Itachi's techniques is a large role in winning this fight, but the ability to put Itachi down is the most important factor. Nagato's summons and his Shinra Tensei have enough variation to ultimately put Itachi down. The next couple of Subheadings will be in regards to his many offensive fighting styles.

Nagato’s main offense consists of four of the six main powers of the Rinnegan. This is the power of Tendō, Shuradō, Chikushōdo, and Ningendō. Each of these abilities grants the user an extremely powerful offensive.

Tendō’s offensive abilities lie in its main technique, Shinra Tensei. The power of Shinra Tensei can vary from simply launching a nail at high speeds towards a target, to the point of annihilating an entire Hidden Village. Shinra Tensei has been depicted to be an instantaneous technique, and its only weakness being the five second interval created after each use of the jutsu. This technique will be the most effective in defeating Itachi, and will be the main reason for Nagato’s victory.

The power Shuradō is almost entirely offense in its own. It allows the user to summon mechanized armor upon himself, and modify it to suite different situations. The user can produce a very deadly chainsaw-like tail, as well as six extra arms. These arms can then be modified into individual laser cannons, open to reveal a flotilla of missiles, or launch at high speeds at a target. The user can modify his/her own head into a deadly laser cannon, capable of leveling an entire city block. Although Shuradō isn’t strong enough to break through Susano’o, it will still effectively put Itachi on the defensive, and in many cases save Nagato from attacks such as shuriken techniques and possibly Amaterasu.

Chikushōdō grants the user the ability to summon an armada of powerful animals. These boss summons not only serve the Rinnegan user in overwhelming their target, but also provide linked-vision for their Summoner. Although not as potent as the previous two abilities, Chikushōdō has proved more than useful for Nagato in battle, and in this fight it will be of utter importance.

Ningendō’s main ability is soul removal. The potency if this technique comes from the fact that its prerequisites are simply touching the intended target of the soul extraction. And as you’ve probably assumed, once the extraction is complete, the target is done for. In combination with Banshō Ten’in, this technique becomes very lethal.

With these four abilities used offensively, even a single opening can be fatal for Itachi. To protect himself from these techniques, primarily those of Tendō and Shuradō, using Susano’o is imperative. However, these techniques can be pretty much spammed by Nagato, whilst maintaining Susano’o is a fairly grim task on Itachi’s part.

Nagato's Mobility and his Summons

The summons Nagato possesses are his most valued asset in this fight. As stated in the manga, don't fight an Uchiha 1v1. This is not something Nagato has to worry about. Of course, he will attempt to avoid eye contact. However, his summoned creatures have the ability to compensate for his loss of eye contact through linked vision. And without being distracted in this scenario, the summons he places on the battlefield will all be focused on a single target, completely negating any speed advantages Itachi would ultimately have over Nagato.

In the manga, Itachi was capable of blinding the Jigakudō's King of Hell and the chameleon summon, allowing him to sever Nagato's arms before he could activate Gakidō. However, one must take into account the following advantages Itachi had there which he lacks here:
- Nagato was controlled like a puppet by Kabuto, who conveniently forgot Itachi's very presence in the battle.
- The chameleon summons single Rinnegan was preoccupied with two very powerful opponents, rendering it incapable of dodging Itachi's shuriken techniques as Kabuto stated. The King of Hell is immobile entirely, so dodging the shuriken was out of its reach as well.
- Nagato himself and Jigakudō’s King of Hell were facing in the opposite direction of where Itachi attacked from.

And to add to this list, Nagato possesses knowledge on Itachi’s mastery over the shuriken techniques and his analytical abilities. It’s highly unlikely Nagato’s summons will fall victim to blinding, and with so many pairs of linked Rinnegan, there are virtually no blind-spots for Itachi to take advantage of.

The Cerebrus is subject to Amaterasu after Itachi figures out how to counter it. However, the only logical way would be Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi, or Susano'o. All are Mangekyou Sharingan related, and all of which dispense a very large amount of chakra. Something Nagato has in abundance and spared little to summon Cerebrus in the first place.

Despite the likely inevitable end of the Cerberus summon, its life on the battlefield can be prolonged by keeping it in its separated state. Itachi is very much still capable of defeating it by dragging his Amaterasu across to each dog, though this will even further take a toll on his chakra as well as his body, and will leave him open to Nagato’s attacks while using the technique. Nagato himself can also keep the Cerberus alive by countering Amaterasu via a defensive summon(s). Amaterasu seems like Itachi’s only definite solution to defeating this summon, aside from killing Nagato himself. And giving up a single summon, albeit the strongest one, for a chakra consuming Mangekyō Sharingan technique seems like a decent trade for Nagato.

So while Nagato's mobility is limited, his ability to compensate is completely viable. Should he choose to he can also manage to move himself around with invisibility via Chameleon or flying with a giant bird summon.

It can also be noted that Nagato can revive his summons via Jigakudō in a case that they are killed, as seen with the Chameleon summon, which was killed by the Ni Dai Sennin in battle prior to the war. Using Jigakudō’s ability seems to be very cheap in chakra consumption, while in turn killing the summons will certainly drain Itachi to a degree. This way, Nagato will always have some form of mobility and range during the battle, and will in turn assist him in keeping the pace of the fight.

The force behind a Shinra Tensei isn't something to be merely shrugged off. The power behind a single Shinra Tensei had the ability to lift three giant toad frogs, whom were able to physically fight off giant summons, while casually throwing them out of the leaf village from its epicenter. They all broke their bones in the process. Itachi's body itself isn't particularly tough nor is it on the level of the Raikage and his family. If he manages to take a hit from a single full powered Shinra Tensei, there's a very good chance it could incapacitate him in the process.

The Shinra Tensei used on the three Mountain Toads was from dead body equipped with Tendō used at a large distance from Nagato’s location. When Nagato uses his own body for the abilities of Pain Rikudō, all the techniques’ speed and strength are to a higher degree. If Nagato puts enough force into his Shinra Tensei, he can very easily incapacitate Itachi and send him to the next zip-code.

Shinra Tensei is also a complete counter to Susano'o. Susano'o does have the ability to anchor it's user to the ground, although the extent to which it can resist Shinra Tensei is questionable. In any sense, this would be a pointless task to carry out. Even if the user is anchored, they would still be subject to the full force of the blow.

This is also with the assumption that Susano’o actually can counter Shinra Tensei by anchoring itself. Shinra Tensei has a unique Ninjutsu dispelling effect. It’s not far-fetched to say Nagato can dispel the technique entirely, and leave Itachi open to attacks from his summons.

Itachi’s Yata no Kagami seems like a viable counter to the force of Shinra Tensei; effectively counteracting it in the same way Naruto did in his six-tailed Kyūbi form and with Kage Bunshin. Though this cannot be known for certain, I will assume it can. Shinra Tensei should still have a deadly effect on the remaining areas of Susano’o, including Itachi. As seen when Pain used Shinra Tensei on Kakashi and Naruto, the ground behind the targets was destroyed as well. In Naruto’s case, despite resisting the force, the ground behind him was destroyed entirely. Essentially it should be the same when Nagato hits the Yata no Kagami with Shinra Tensei; with the Yata no Kagami resisting the force, the rest of Susano’o will dispel, and Itachi will be severely damaged, if not incapacitated.

Banshō Ten’in

Banshō Ten’in is a very unique ability in that it can't be placed in a very distinctive category. Its main usage would be to draw Itachi out for offensive purposes, but it can also be used on the surrounding environment to help him in said situation he's placed in. It can be used defensively as well to pull summons out of harm’s way. It's also entirely possible that instead of using Banshō Ten’in on a summon, Nagato uses it on Susano'o itself.

Banshō Ten’in can indeed be the decisive factor in this match-up. If Itachi at any point lowers his guard and is drawn into Nagato’s grasp, he is practically defeated. Unless Susano’o is in its armored form, it will not help him at a close distance due to Gakidō, and his shuriken techniques can swatted aside and/or blocked by Shuradō’s arms and tail. As seen with the many instances Banshō Ten’in was used, the victims were unable to form hand-seals, and were forced to counter by other means, if any.

Banshō Ten’in is one of those situation based techniques that comes in handy every now and then, and its mechanics are simply Shinra Tensei in reverse. It's a very effective technique to counter Susano'o with.

From what we’ve seen in Nagato’s battle against Kakashi and Naruto, he can select individual targets to use Tendō’s abilities on. In one instance, Shuradō is standing right in front of Tendō’s line-of-sight, yet Tendō was able to pull in only Kakashi with Banshō Ten’in. Another instance would be when he pulls the nail out of the wooden board, and only the nail. In his fight with Naruto, he used Shinra Tensei in the direction of Naruto and Gakidō, yet only Naruto was affected, despite being directly on top of Pain’s corpse. With this in mind, Nagato should be able to draw Itachi out of his Susano’o, and into his Gakidō master-lock, Ningendō, or Shuradō’s binding and arm cannon combination. If need be, Nagato can have his summons temporarily immobilize Susano’o. Itachi’s best bet in this situation would be to have Susano’o grab him as he’s pulled out. However, this will be near impossible if Susano’o is in its armored state, as it is wielding its two Legendary Treasures in both arms.

Chibaku Tensei

It may be a slightly different opinion than many posters on this forum, but our Team believes that Chibaku Tensei is not needed and its usage would be absolute overkill. It will be elaborated on in the defensive section, but the abilities Nagato has are large counters to Itachi's Susano'o.

However, if necessary, Chibaku Tensei will be used to completely subdue Itachi. The force behind the technique is enough to completely crush Itachi should it gain enough mass, even with Susano'o activated. Recent chapters have shown that Madara was completely blown to pieces even with Susano'o activated, in the face of a large destructive meteor. And while Itachi does have his mirror, it's simply one sided. It's not a full coverage of Susano'o.
As for Itachi's ranged attack, the room for speculation is too high. Unless Team Itachi manages to come up with a quantified analysis on how strong said technique is and how much it contributed to the destruction of the Chibaku Tensei he faced, the assumption that he would be crushed in the process is the most logical conclusion to draw in this situation.
Chibaku Tensei is an endgame technique which is not something you can simply shield yourself from or run away from. It's the most destructive technique in the manga, even more so than Madara's meteors.

Itachi’s only two possible answers to Chibaku Tensei are the Yasaka no Magatama and Amaterasu. However, both techniques are certainly not enough to stop the core from drawing Itachi inside and crushing him. The Yasaka no Magatama lacks any sort of destructive feats, and there is no reason to say it is stronger than a six-tailed Bijūdama, which Chibaku Tensei took easily. And the Chibaku Tensei was formed from a dead corpse used at a distance from a heavily fatigued Nagato. I suppose one could argue that Yasaka no Magatama was portrayed as equals with the Hachibi Bijūdama and the Fūton: Rasenshuriken, however this is merely speculation. Also, each individual attack shouldn’t be enough to destroy the core anyway. Amaterasu is a very inconsistent technique. One day it burns quickly, the other slowly. But from the majority of occurrences, Amaterasu burns far too slowly, and the most it’ll accomplish is pulling Itachi into a burning sun. By the time the core is burnt, Itachi would have already been dealt with. And keep in mind that if he survives the attack, he would have exhausted a large amount of chakra maintaining Susano’o, for both staying alive in the miniature moon as well as survive the after debris that would be covered in black flames. Nagato on the other hand should still be in good shape to fight, considering his large and powerful chakras granted by being an Uzumaki.

Nagato's Defense

Nagato's body is frail and therefore needs several forms of defensive measures to protect himself. Of course, one of the ways is by shielding himself with summons. Said summons can also be used aggressively, distracting Itachi from Nagato, ultimately protecting himself. But he also has several techniques that can be used should he be caught out. The next couple of subheadings will deal with his defensive techniques, as well as his counters to some of Itachi's more annoying abilities.

Nagato’s main defense lies in the linked vision attribute gained from the eyes of his summons. Essentially giving him 360* vision, Nagato cannot be surprise attacked in almost all cases, and can see an attack coming a mile away. Even when blinded, say by Itachi’s Katon: Gōkakyū, the linked vision will still allow him to keep an eye on Itachi’s position and the state of his Susano’o. As Itachi knows of this major advantage on Nagato’s end, it is likely he’ll aim for slaughtering the summons early on. However, Nagato can simply keep the invisible chameleon summon at a distance from the battlefield and have it speculate the fight. And unlike the fight that occurred in the manga, Nagato has his complete arsenal of creatures at his leisure, and is entirely focused on one target, Itachi.

Shinra Tensei

Shinra Tensei isn't just for offensive purposes as most people realize. It's a very effective form of defense. Basically, Shinra Tensei has the ability to repel any tangible objects being thrown his way. It's possibly one of the most basic forms of defense in the manga. It's also one of the most effective.
Repel anything coming your way. The versatility of Shinra Tensei is something that shouldn't be taken lightly.

Combined with its defensive properties, Nagato can vary the range of Shinra Tensei and have it simultaneously hit Itachi and damage him whilst repelling his attacks. Using the technique in this manor will keep Itachi from taking advantage of the five second interval after the Shinra Tensei, as this time period would be more used to recover from the hit.

Chakra Absorption

Sometimes I wonder if this technique was a backup plan for a failed Shinra Tensei. Chakra absorption can absorb any form of Ninjutsu that is physically harmful to Nagato should it not be repelled by Shinra Tensei. This makes basically every non-Genjutsu related technique in Itachi's arsenal completely useless. His reliance on his Mangekyou Sharingan becomes even heavier. And with that his chakra usage becomes even more of a problem. Not only does it completely render physical Ninjutsu useless, it also forces Itachi to bring out his big guns early.

With Gakidō in his Nagato’s repertoire, Itachi is significantly limited in his offense. He is practically restricted to Genjutsu, shuriken techniques, and his armored Susano’o, all of which can be countered. One of the most heated debates in Itachi vs. Pain/Nagato threads is whether or not Gakidō’s ability would allow Nagato to absorb Itachi’s Totsuka no Tsurugi and Yata no Kagami. Whether it can or cannot absorb the two Legendary Items will not exactly be the decisive factor in this fight, though it is still very important.

In Gakidō’s defense, I believe the two Legendary Items can be absorbed. We’ve seen Gakidō able to absorb even Natural Energy. Yes, Itachi’s weapons are stated to be spiritual. However, one must take into account that Susano’o, a chakra construct, is able to wield them. From this, it isn’t far-fetched to say that the items manifest in chakra form, making them physical, in which case allows the Totsuka no Tsurugi to physically pierce through a target. As seen with the Fuinjutsu: Shiki Fūjin, spiritual attacks do not cause any physical harm. Itachi’s weapons do, however.

Conversely, the items may actually be in spiritual form and won’t be subject to Gakidō’s technique. If the items cannot be absorbed, Nagato still has a way to combat them. The Rinnegan allows the user to see chakra, similar to the Sharingan. With this in mind, Nagato should be able to distinguish the Totsuka no Tsurugi and Yata no Kagami’s none chakra properties from the rest of Susano’o, and keep his Shinra Tensei on the ready, and stay out of Itachi's range via summons.

Countering Genjutsu and Tsukuyomi

Itachi's Genjutsu is possibly the best in the manga. His use of it is very versatile and very lethal if landed. However, contrary to popular belief, it is not impossible to completely counter Genjutsu related techniques. Of course, the first thing would be to avoid eye contact, a simple task that Nagato could accomplish by using constant animal summons as a way to compensate for the reduction in his visual field. If the animals are subject to Genjutsu, Nagato is not. After all, if shared senses hindered Nagato in any way, the frog song would have taken him out as well after his Paths managed to hear it themselves. The sheer amount of summons makes it unlikely that Itachi can cut off every single form of vision Nagato manages to set up without being spotted and attacked.

Another instance of Genjutsu not transferring through a “puppet” if you want to call it is when Edo Tensei Itachi was put under Koto-Amatsu-Kami. In this case, Kabuto was unaffected by the technique entirely. As we know, Kabuto does control his Edo Tensei in practically the same manner as Nagato does his dead corpses and summons. He hears and sees everything they do (and likely other senses as well), but he himself is unaffected entirely.

Even if Nagato is caught in Itachi’s Genjutsu, his linked vision will most definitely counter the illusion. From a different “angle” if you want to call it, he’ll be able to distinguish reality from illusion, and effectively ignore the illusion and proceed to counter whatever attack Itachi is cloaking.

Recent revelations have shown that Rinnegan to be the most evolved form of the Sharingan. And while it is true that Nagato's Rinnegan did not progress through each stage of the Sharingan as Madara's had, I find this to be a moot point. The only difference between Madara's Rinnegan and Nagato's is the ability to switch between Sharingan related techniques and Rinnegan related ones. The basic Genjutsu defense of the Rinnegan should be equal or greater to that of the Sharingan. His ability to break out of Genjutsu is entirely possible, although the chances of him getting caught are reduced severely by his fighting style.

With the Rinnegan being an evolved form of the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan, breaking out of Tsukuyomi should not be very difficult for Nagato. Sasuke was able to break the Genjutsu with the simplest form of the Sharingan combined with his skill. Nagato was stated to be a master of the Rinnegan, the most advanced form of the Sharingan.

One most also note that Nagato himself is proficient at Genjutsu use. He put mind seal barriers on ninja's so advanced it stumped Konoha's interrogators. And said jutsu was not just used on one or two ninja. Nagato managed to place information blocking Genjutsu on an entire village of ninja, without ever making face to face contact with any of them.

Nagato was also stated to be a master of the Yin Release due to his Rinnegan, which Genjutsu is a sub-category of.

Countering Amaterasu

This was a much easier topic to cover than Tsukiyomi. Before I begin I'd like to point out the fact that Nagato, in his confrontation with Naruto and Bee, managed to feel Amaterasu's pressure without even looking at Itachi's eyes. This works perfectly with the strategy of avoiding eye contact.

Of course, Amaterasu travels extremely fast. But the manga has already provided a counter to Amaterasu, which is Shinra Tensei. He can also use his jutsu absorption ability to make sure the technique itself ceases to affect him. Amaterasu is much less a factor on Nagato and in the most likely case would simply be used to counter to large summons placed on the battlefield.

Amaterasu is a very powerful technique on Itachi’s part, but its charge is what really gives the opponent the opening to exploit. The initial charge of the attack is relatively long, and as stated before, the “pressure” of Amaterasu can be sensed. Nagato can effectively counter the attack by placing a defensive summon in Itachi’s line-of-sight. He can also shoot a couple missiles with Shuradō, forcing Itachi on the defensive and simultaneously putting up a smoke-screen to block Itachi’s line-of-sight. Unlike the instance in the manga, Nagato is in full control of his body. Hence if Amaterasu hits him, he will immediately counter with either Shinra Tensei or Gakidō, well before the attack does any serious damage. If however, he does end up losing a limb or two, he can heal himself with a quick use of Jigakudō. It should also be noted that Nagato had to cover for Itachi with Shinra Tensei while he was charging Amaterasu, indicating that if Nagato gets a clean hit on Itachi, he may be able to temporarily stop Amaterasu.

Concluding the In-Depth Analysis

Nagato has a much higher chance of victory in this battle than Itachi does. He has swift counters to any and all of Itachi's techniques, whilst the same cannot be said the other way around. Nagato's techniques give him an overwhelmingly powerful offense, as well as a near unbreakable defense, all exhibit Nagato's superiority among these two powerful Dōjutsu users.
 
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Oh youre right about the bolded part i admit it, but Itachi can use izanagi, any Uchiha can use it and its a fact believe me:) search for it if you dont. But lets imagine the battle: they go to the battlefield, and when they notice each other Itachi points his finger and casts his genjutsu...and as for your thread on deva soloing, I dont think Itachi or else using susanoo can be pulled out that easily...shinra tensei and basho tenin can be withstood.
I don't think Izangi would be a smart move, he'd lose an eye loosing susanoo and amatarasu/tsukuyomi meaning he's more likely to lose and he was about to lose in the first place at full power.

Just like Garra pulling Madara out, I don't think it's a stretch to say an Uchiha can be pulled out of susanoo. It's even easier with banshou tennin because gravity can go right through the susanoo. Even then he could just pluck Itachi's eyes out like the nail in the piece of wood he was going to kill Kakashi with.
 

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If u open please read everything :D
Read both parts Itachi and Nagato/pain then u will c its a good draw and both are closely equal to each other.




Itachi
The matchup in question for this incarnation of the Great Debate is Itachi vs Nagato. While Nagato is certainly a powerful opponent, we believe that Itachi would be the clear victor in such a contest. In this speech, I will support this assertion by discussing Itachi's prowess with the Mangekyou Sharingan, his skill in other ninjutsu and genjutsu, his taijutsu capabilities, and the tactics he would use to overwhelm Nagato's own powers.

Hype

Some of the most skilled and powerful shinobi in the manga have shown respect for Itachi's capabilities. Tobi stated that if Itachi had known about his intangibility, he would be dead, and also that Itachi could have killed Sasuke if he'd wanted to. Danzou praised not only Itachi's ideology, but also his genjutsu prowess, calling Sasuke's impressive illusions "as far below him as the land is below the sky." Orochimaru's successor Kabuto claimed that Itachi was on "another level" from the other Edo Tenseis--who include Kages and other Akatsuki members.

The Mangekyou Sharingan

The most powerful weapon in Itachi's arsenal, the Mangekyou Sharingan affords the user three different jutsu, each of which is a "game-breaker" in its own right.

Tsukiyomi

The Mangekyou's genjutsu can be used as a means of either physical or psychological torture. Tsukiyomi is so harrowing that it completely incapacitated even Hatake Kakashi. While he used physical torture in that case, he chose to inflict psychological trauma on Sasuke, and could use his considerable intelligence to gauge which tactic would be more effective against Nagato.

An additional element to consider here is that, while Nagato possesses a doujutsu of his own, it clearly doesn't grant him genjutsu immunity, since he was captured by Magen: Gamarinsho. Thus, he should be just as vulnerable to Tsukiyomi as the doujutsu user Kakashi was.

Amaterasu

Like Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu takes effect in an instant--Nagato himself was unable to react to it until it had already taken hold. As if this weren't dangerous enough, the flames of Amaterasu can spread.

Amaterasu is even more deadly because Itachi doesn't need to stand still to cast it. On the contrary, he cast it while running while escaping Jiraiya's "inescapable" Toad Stomach.

The nature of Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu presents an additional danger for Nagato. The best way to determine that Amaterasu is about to be cast is to look for the blood-tear from Itachi's left eye. However, this would require looking at Itachi's eye, making Nagato vulnerable to Tsukiyomi. Conversely, avoiding eye contact is the only way to make oneself safe from Tsukiyomi, but this makes it much harder to predict an impending Amaterasu. Even if Nagato sensed the chakra buildup preceding Amaterasu, he would still need to make eye contact to determine precisely when Amaterasu is going to be cast.

Susano'o

The final Mangekyou jutsu is perhaps the most potent, as it provides both offense and defense. According to the Databook, the Yata no Kagami can change its chakra type to perfectly counter any ninjutsu used against it. Itachi has also shown himself capable of erecting Susano'o at astonishing speed.

Beyond this, Susano'o also possesses two other legendary treasures: the Sword of Totsuka and the Yasaka no Magatama. The Sword of Totsuka seals everything it touches into an eternal genjutsu. Given that the Sword is presumably made of chakra, one might assume that it would be useless in the face of Nagato's Hungry Ghost Realm ability. The manga says otherwise, however: when Nagato was pierced by the Sword, he was unable to absorb it. The Magatama, meanwhile, is clearly meant to be a long-range attack, and helped to stop Nagato's Chibaku Tensei.

Other Ninjutsu

Katons

In addition to Amaterasu, Itachi can muster two other katons. The Uchiha Clan's signature ninjutsu, Katon: Gokakyu, is particularly notable due to its size, which allows it to block LOS. This gives Itachi the opportunity to carry out bunshin feints or other trickery.

Katon: Housenka Tsumabeni may be less impressive than Gokakyu, but it takes advantage of Itachi's superb weapon mastery, and also seems to be a very quick attack. In addition, Nagato's immediate reaction to such a jutsu would most likely be to absorb the flames, which would result in his being pierced by the shuriken concealed within them.

Bunshins

Itachi has shown us two unique variants on that old standby, Kage Bunshin. First is Karasu Bunshin, which has a major advantage for Itachi in that it requires less chakra than the standard Kage Bunshin, and which can also discorporate into its component crows. Second is the Exploding Bunshin, which is self-explanatory.

Itachi's bunshinjutsu is especially potent when combined with distractions or LOS-blockers. As described above, we've seen Itachi use ninjutsu as a cover for a bunshin feint; this tactic becomes even more dangerous when the bunshin in question can cast genjutsu or blow up in the opponent's face.

Other Genjutsu

As mentioned above, one of the advantages of Itachi's Karasu Bunshin is that it can discorporate into individual crows. What makes this property even more powerful is that some of the crows have Sharingan of their own, and thus can cast genjutsu. While avoiding Itachi's single pair of eyes is possible, avoiding all the eyes of a flock of crows that's swarming all around the opponent would be extraordinarily difficult to do.

Even basic Sharingan genjutsu is deadly in Itachi's hands. Naruto, with jinchuuriki levels of chakra, was unable to break Itachi's base genjutsu by perturbing his own chakra. The same encounter shows Itachi to be adept at psychological manipulation through genjutsu: he showed Naruto visions of people he cared about saying that they were disappointed in him, correctly assessing Naruto's personality to calculate what would hurt him most. Agains an opponent like Nagato, who has suffered great emotional trauma in the past, such a tactic would be highly effective.

In addition, his eyes are not the only tools Itachi can use to cast genjutsu. With Utakata, he can cast genjutsu with his fingers as well. With no knowledge on this technique, Nagato will probably look at Itachi's hands in order to see what seals he's making--and in so doing, will insure that he gets caught in an illusion.

Nor does Itachi need to rely on "flashy" genjutsu to destroy his opponent. As we saw in the Sasuke vs Danzou fight, even a subtle genjutsu can turn the tide of a battle--and even a doujutsu doesn't provide protection against a genjutsu cast by a Mangekyou master. He could even trick Nagato into destroying himself, similar to the strategy he used when fighting Deidara.

Finally, the incident in which he cut off Orochimaru's hand showed that he can still move even while participating in a genjutsu. Thus, even if Nagato does manage to break through the genjutsu, he will emerge from the illusion only to find that Itachi has already seized the initiative and is probably about to kill him with one of the many other moves in his arsenal.

Taijutsu

Speed

One of Itachi's major advantages in a taijutsu contest is his remarkable speed. He was able to keep up with Rikudou Mode Naruto and Killer Bee in close-quarters combat, and made handseals so fast that even Kakashi's Sharingan wasn't able to follow them. Additionally, he conjured a Kage Bunshin in the middle of his rapid-fire shuriken exchange with Sasuke, a feat that astonished the younger Uchiha. Finally, when fighting Nagato, he grabbed Naruto and Bee, blinded Nagato's summons, and cut off Nagato's arm, all in one fluid movement.

Weapon Usage

From a young age, Itachi excelled at the use of kunai and shuriken. Even before the Massacre, we saw him hit targets that were in his blind spot, and during his final battle with Sasuke, he threw shuriken at blinding speed. He also casually destroyed two of Naruto's Kage Bunshin. And it's not only targets in his own blind spot that he can hit: during his fight with Edo Nagato, we saw him negate Nagato's shared vision with his summons by attacking their blind spots.

Intelligence

The Databook gives Itachi a genius-level Intelligence score of 5, and this has been backed up by feats. For example, in the heat of battle, he analyzed Nagato's Chibaku Tensei and devised a way to counter it.

Stamina

Many people consider Itachi's stamina to be his greatest weakness, but in fact he's capable of using a sequence of powerful jutsu in quick succession. In his final battle against his brother, Itachi used several ordinary genjutsu, Kage Bunshin, Tsukiyomi, Gokakyu (twice), Amaterasu (twice), and Susano'o (twice). During his fight against Naruto and Bee (and later Nagato as well), he used Katon: Gokakyu, Kage Bunshin, Katon: Housenka Tsumabeni, Sharingan genjutsu, Koto Amatsukami, Amaterasu (three times), and Susano'o. And in this second instance, he wasn't even tired afterward--a feat that was not due solely to his undead nature, as the Nidaime Mizukage's body was weakened after he used Jokey Boy, and Nagato had to absorb chakra from Bee and Naruto to restore his body.

Counters to Nagato's Abilities

Much of this will be discussed by our later speakers, so I will simply address a few points briefly.

Even without having the Six Paths in separate bodies, Nagato can still take advantage of the Rinnegan's shared vision by bringing Animal Realm's summons onto the field. However, Itachi's fight with the Edo Tensei Nagato showed that he can negate this advantage by blinding the summons with simple projectile weapons.

Deva Path's powers, collectively, are probably the most powerful weapons Nagato possesses. But these too can be countered by Itachi. We've seen that Susano'o is capable of grabbing people, which means that it should be able to hold onto Itachi and anchor him against Bansho Tenin and even Chibaku Tensei's gravitational pull.

Aside from Deva, Asura Path is probably the most destructive of Nagato's "avatars". However, the defense of Susano'o will stop missiles and lasers cold.

Conclusion

Nagato is a formidable opponent, but Itachi's Mangekyou jutsu, mastery of genjutsu, speed, and intelligence grant him clear superiority. He can protect himself from Nagato's attacks while overpowering Nagato's own defenses. The Rinnegan may be "greater" than the Sharingan in terms of sheer power, but sheer power isn't all that matters in a contest between ninja. In addition to his own overwhelming puissance, Itachi also possesses exceptional skill--the skill of a man who graduated from the Academy at 7, was promoted to Chuunin at 10, was granted captaincy of an ANBU squad at 13, and defeated a Sannin with ease in his early teens. This skill will give Itachi the edge against Nagato, and we believe that he would emerge victorious if the two of them were to fight.

Nagato


While defensive measures are important and will be taken by Nagato, it is very important to elaborate on his offensive capabilities. Even compared to Uchiha Madara, Nagato's abilities are the most destructive in the manga. Countering Itachi's techniques is a large role in winning this fight, but the ability to put Itachi down is the most important factor. Nagato's summons and his Shinra Tensei have enough variation to ultimately put Itachi down. The next couple of Subheadings will be in regards to his many offensive fighting styles.

Nagato’s main offense consists of four of the six main powers of the Rinnegan. This is the power of Tendō, Shuradō, Chikushōdo, and Ningendō. Each of these abilities grants the user an extremely powerful offensive.

Tendō’s offensive abilities lie in its main technique, Shinra Tensei. The power of Shinra Tensei can vary from simply launching a nail at high speeds towards a target, to the point of annihilating an entire Hidden Village. Shinra Tensei has been depicted to be an instantaneous technique, and its only weakness being the five second interval created after each use of the jutsu. This technique will be the most effective in defeating Itachi, and will be the main reason for Nagato’s victory.

The power Shuradō is almost entirely offense in its own. It allows the user to summon mechanized armor upon himself, and modify it to suite different situations. The user can produce a very deadly chainsaw-like tail, as well as six extra arms. These arms can then be modified into individual laser cannons, open to reveal a flotilla of missiles, or launch at high speeds at a target. The user can modify his/her own head into a deadly laser cannon, capable of leveling an entire city block. Although Shuradō isn’t strong enough to break through Susano’o, it will still effectively put Itachi on the defensive, and in many cases save Nagato from attacks such as shuriken techniques and possibly Amaterasu.

Chikushōdō grants the user the ability to summon an armada of powerful animals. These boss summons not only serve the Rinnegan user in overwhelming their target, but also provide linked-vision for their Summoner. Although not as potent as the previous two abilities, Chikushōdō has proved more than useful for Nagato in battle, and in this fight it will be of utter importance.

Ningendō’s main ability is soul removal. The potency if this technique comes from the fact that its prerequisites are simply touching the intended target of the soul extraction. And as you’ve probably assumed, once the extraction is complete, the target is done for. In combination with Banshō Ten’in, this technique becomes very lethal.

With these four abilities used offensively, even a single opening can be fatal for Itachi. To protect himself from these techniques, primarily those of Tendō and Shuradō, using Susano’o is imperative. However, these techniques can be pretty much spammed by Nagato, whilst maintaining Susano’o is a fairly grim task on Itachi’s part.

Nagato's Mobility and his Summons

The summons Nagato possesses are his most valued asset in this fight. As stated in the manga, don't fight an Uchiha 1v1. This is not something Nagato has to worry about. Of course, he will attempt to avoid eye contact. However, his summoned creatures have the ability to compensate for his loss of eye contact through linked vision. And without being distracted in this scenario, the summons he places on the battlefield will all be focused on a single target, completely negating any speed advantages Itachi would ultimately have over Nagato.

In the manga, Itachi was capable of blinding the Jigakudō's King of Hell and the chameleon summon, allowing him to sever Nagato's arms before he could activate Gakidō. However, one must take into account the following advantages Itachi had there which he lacks here:
- Nagato was controlled like a puppet by Kabuto, who conveniently forgot Itachi's very presence in the battle.
- The chameleon summons single Rinnegan was preoccupied with two very powerful opponents, rendering it incapable of dodging Itachi's shuriken techniques as Kabuto stated. The King of Hell is immobile entirely, so dodging the shuriken was out of its reach as well.
- Nagato himself and Jigakudō’s King of Hell were facing in the opposite direction of where Itachi attacked from.

And to add to this list, Nagato possesses knowledge on Itachi’s mastery over the shuriken techniques and his analytical abilities. It’s highly unlikely Nagato’s summons will fall victim to blinding, and with so many pairs of linked Rinnegan, there are virtually no blind-spots for Itachi to take advantage of.

The Cerebrus is subject to Amaterasu after Itachi figures out how to counter it. However, the only logical way would be Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi, or Susano'o. All are Mangekyou Sharingan related, and all of which dispense a very large amount of chakra. Something Nagato has in abundance and spared little to summon Cerebrus in the first place.

Despite the likely inevitable end of the Cerberus summon, its life on the battlefield can be prolonged by keeping it in its separated state. Itachi is very much still capable of defeating it by dragging his Amaterasu across to each dog, though this will even further take a toll on his chakra as well as his body, and will leave him open to Nagato’s attacks while using the technique. Nagato himself can also keep the Cerberus alive by countering Amaterasu via a defensive summon(s). Amaterasu seems like Itachi’s only definite solution to defeating this summon, aside from killing Nagato himself. And giving up a single summon, albeit the strongest one, for a chakra consuming Mangekyō Sharingan technique seems like a decent trade for Nagato.

So while Nagato's mobility is limited, his ability to compensate is completely viable. Should he choose to he can also manage to move himself around with invisibility via Chameleon or flying with a giant bird summon.

It can also be noted that Nagato can revive his summons via Jigakudō in a case that they are killed, as seen with the Chameleon summon, which was killed by the Ni Dai Sennin in battle prior to the war. Using Jigakudō’s ability seems to be very cheap in chakra consumption, while in turn killing the summons will certainly drain Itachi to a degree. This way, Nagato will always have some form of mobility and range during the battle, and will in turn assist him in keeping the pace of the fight.

The force behind a Shinra Tensei isn't something to be merely shrugged off. The power behind a single Shinra Tensei had the ability to lift three giant toad frogs, whom were able to physically fight off giant summons, while casually throwing them out of the leaf village from its epicenter. They all broke their bones in the process. Itachi's body itself isn't particularly tough nor is it on the level of the Raikage and his family. If he manages to take a hit from a single full powered Shinra Tensei, there's a very good chance it could incapacitate him in the process.

The Shinra Tensei used on the three Mountain Toads was from dead body equipped with Tendō used at a large distance from Nagato’s location. When Nagato uses his own body for the abilities of Pain Rikudō, all the techniques’ speed and strength are to a higher degree. If Nagato puts enough force into his Shinra Tensei, he can very easily incapacitate Itachi and send him to the next zip-code.

Shinra Tensei is also a complete counter to Susano'o. Susano'o does have the ability to anchor it's user to the ground, although the extent to which it can resist Shinra Tensei is questionable. In any sense, this would be a pointless task to carry out. Even if the user is anchored, they would still be subject to the full force of the blow.

This is also with the assumption that Susano’o actually can counter Shinra Tensei by anchoring itself. Shinra Tensei has a unique Ninjutsu dispelling effect. It’s not far-fetched to say Nagato can dispel the technique entirely, and leave Itachi open to attacks from his summons.

Itachi’s Yata no Kagami seems like a viable counter to the force of Shinra Tensei; effectively counteracting it in the same way Naruto did in his six-tailed Kyūbi form and with Kage Bunshin. Though this cannot be known for certain, I will assume it can. Shinra Tensei should still have a deadly effect on the remaining areas of Susano’o, including Itachi. As seen when Pain used Shinra Tensei on Kakashi and Naruto, the ground behind the targets was destroyed as well. In Naruto’s case, despite resisting the force, the ground behind him was destroyed entirely. Essentially it should be the same when Nagato hits the Yata no Kagami with Shinra Tensei; with the Yata no Kagami resisting the force, the rest of Susano’o will dispel, and Itachi will be severely damaged, if not incapacitated.

Banshō Ten’in

Banshō Ten’in is a very unique ability in that it can't be placed in a very distinctive category. Its main usage would be to draw Itachi out for offensive purposes, but it can also be used on the surrounding environment to help him in said situation he's placed in. It can be used defensively as well to pull summons out of harm’s way. It's also entirely possible that instead of using Banshō Ten’in on a summon, Nagato uses it on Susano'o itself.

Banshō Ten’in can indeed be the decisive factor in this match-up. If Itachi at any point lowers his guard and is drawn into Nagato’s grasp, he is practically defeated. Unless Susano’o is in its armored form, it will not help him at a close distance due to Gakidō, and his shuriken techniques can swatted aside and/or blocked by Shuradō’s arms and tail. As seen with the many instances Banshō Ten’in was used, the victims were unable to form hand-seals, and were forced to counter by other means, if any.

Banshō Ten’in is one of those situation based techniques that comes in handy every now and then, and its mechanics are simply Shinra Tensei in reverse. It's a very effective technique to counter Susano'o with.

From what we’ve seen in Nagato’s battle against Kakashi and Naruto, he can select individual targets to use Tendō’s abilities on. In one instance, Shuradō is standing right in front of Tendō’s line-of-sight, yet Tendō was able to pull in only Kakashi with Banshō Ten’in. Another instance would be when he pulls the nail out of the wooden board, and only the nail. In his fight with Naruto, he used Shinra Tensei in the direction of Naruto and Gakidō, yet only Naruto was affected, despite being directly on top of Pain’s corpse. With this in mind, Nagato should be able to draw Itachi out of his Susano’o, and into his Gakidō master-lock, Ningendō, or Shuradō’s binding and arm cannon combination. If need be, Nagato can have his summons temporarily immobilize Susano’o. Itachi’s best bet in this situation would be to have Susano’o grab him as he’s pulled out. However, this will be near impossible if Susano’o is in its armored state, as it is wielding its two Legendary Treasures in both arms.

Chibaku Tensei

It may be a slightly different opinion than many posters on this forum, but our Team believes that Chibaku Tensei is not needed and its usage would be absolute overkill. It will be elaborated on in the defensive section, but the abilities Nagato has are large counters to Itachi's Susano'o.

However, if necessary, Chibaku Tensei will be used to completely subdue Itachi. The force behind the technique is enough to completely crush Itachi should it gain enough mass, even with Susano'o activated. Recent chapters have shown that Madara was completely blown to pieces even with Susano'o activated, in the face of a large destructive meteor. And while Itachi does have his mirror, it's simply one sided. It's not a full coverage of Susano'o.
As for Itachi's ranged attack, the room for speculation is too high. Unless Team Itachi manages to come up with a quantified analysis on how strong said technique is and how much it contributed to the destruction of the Chibaku Tensei he faced, the assumption that he would be crushed in the process is the most logical conclusion to draw in this situation.
Chibaku Tensei is an endgame technique which is not something you can simply shield yourself from or run away from. It's the most destructive technique in the manga, even more so than Madara's meteors.

Itachi’s only two possible answers to Chibaku Tensei are the Yasaka no Magatama and Amaterasu. However, both techniques are certainly not enough to stop the core from drawing Itachi inside and crushing him. The Yasaka no Magatama lacks any sort of destructive feats, and there is no reason to say it is stronger than a six-tailed Bijūdama, which Chibaku Tensei took easily. And the Chibaku Tensei was formed from a dead corpse used at a distance from a heavily fatigued Nagato. I suppose one could argue that Yasaka no Magatama was portrayed as equals with the Hachibi Bijūdama and the Fūton: Rasenshuriken, however this is merely speculation. Also, each individual attack shouldn’t be enough to destroy the core anyway. Amaterasu is a very inconsistent technique. One day it burns quickly, the other slowly. But from the majority of occurrences, Amaterasu burns far too slowly, and the most it’ll accomplish is pulling Itachi into a burning sun. By the time the core is burnt, Itachi would have already been dealt with. And keep in mind that if he survives the attack, he would have exhausted a large amount of chakra maintaining Susano’o, for both staying alive in the miniature moon as well as survive the after debris that would be covered in black flames. Nagato on the other hand should still be in good shape to fight, considering his large and powerful chakras granted by being an Uzumaki.

Nagato's Defense

Nagato's body is frail and therefore needs several forms of defensive measures to protect himself. Of course, one of the ways is by shielding himself with summons. Said summons can also be used aggressively, distracting Itachi from Nagato, ultimately protecting himself. But he also has several techniques that can be used should he be caught out. The next couple of subheadings will deal with his defensive techniques, as well as his counters to some of Itachi's more annoying abilities.

Nagato’s main defense lies in the linked vision attribute gained from the eyes of his summons. Essentially giving him 360* vision, Nagato cannot be surprise attacked in almost all cases, and can see an attack coming a mile away. Even when blinded, say by Itachi’s Katon: Gōkakyū, the linked vision will still allow him to keep an eye on Itachi’s position and the state of his Susano’o. As Itachi knows of this major advantage on Nagato’s end, it is likely he’ll aim for slaughtering the summons early on. However, Nagato can simply keep the invisible chameleon summon at a distance from the battlefield and have it speculate the fight. And unlike the fight that occurred in the manga, Nagato has his complete arsenal of creatures at his leisure, and is entirely focused on one target, Itachi.

Shinra Tensei

Shinra Tensei isn't just for offensive purposes as most people realize. It's a very effective form of defense. Basically, Shinra Tensei has the ability to repel any tangible objects being thrown his way. It's possibly one of the most basic forms of defense in the manga. It's also one of the most effective.
Repel anything coming your way. The versatility of Shinra Tensei is something that shouldn't be taken lightly.

Combined with its defensive properties, Nagato can vary the range of Shinra Tensei and have it simultaneously hit Itachi and damage him whilst repelling his attacks. Using the technique in this manor will keep Itachi from taking advantage of the five second interval after the Shinra Tensei, as this time period would be more used to recover from the hit.

Chakra Absorption

Sometimes I wonder if this technique was a backup plan for a failed Shinra Tensei. Chakra absorption can absorb any form of Ninjutsu that is physically harmful to Nagato should it not be repelled by Shinra Tensei. This makes basically every non-Genjutsu related technique in Itachi's arsenal completely useless. His reliance on his Mangekyou Sharingan becomes even heavier. And with that his chakra usage becomes even more of a problem. Not only does it completely render physical Ninjutsu useless, it also forces Itachi to bring out his big guns early.

With Gakidō in his Nagato’s repertoire, Itachi is significantly limited in his offense. He is practically restricted to Genjutsu, shuriken techniques, and his armored Susano’o, all of which can be countered. One of the most heated debates in Itachi vs. Pain/Nagato threads is whether or not Gakidō’s ability would allow Nagato to absorb Itachi’s Totsuka no Tsurugi and Yata no Kagami. Whether it can or cannot absorb the two Legendary Items will not exactly be the decisive factor in this fight, though it is still very important.

In Gakidō’s defense, I believe the two Legendary Items can be absorbed. We’ve seen Gakidō able to absorb even Natural Energy. Yes, Itachi’s weapons are stated to be spiritual. However, one must take into account that Susano’o, a chakra construct, is able to wield them. From this, it isn’t far-fetched to say that the items manifest in chakra form, making them physical, in which case allows the Totsuka no Tsurugi to physically pierce through a target. As seen with the Fuinjutsu: Shiki Fūjin, spiritual attacks do not cause any physical harm. Itachi’s weapons do, however.

Conversely, the items may actually be in spiritual form and won’t be subject to Gakidō’s technique. If the items cannot be absorbed, Nagato still has a way to combat them. The Rinnegan allows the user to see chakra, similar to the Sharingan. With this in mind, Nagato should be able to distinguish the Totsuka no Tsurugi and Yata no Kagami’s none chakra properties from the rest of Susano’o, and keep his Shinra Tensei on the ready, and stay out of Itachi's range via summons.

Countering Genjutsu and Tsukuyomi

Itachi's Genjutsu is possibly the best in the manga. His use of it is very versatile and very lethal if landed. However, contrary to popular belief, it is not impossible to completely counter Genjutsu related techniques. Of course, the first thing would be to avoid eye contact, a simple task that Nagato could accomplish by using constant animal summons as a way to compensate for the reduction in his visual field. If the animals are subject to Genjutsu, Nagato is not. After all, if shared senses hindered Nagato in any way, the frog song would have taken him out as well after his Paths managed to hear it themselves. The sheer amount of summons makes it unlikely that Itachi can cut off every single form of vision Nagato manages to set up without being spotted and attacked.

Another instance of Genjutsu not transferring through a “puppet” if you want to call it is when Edo Tensei Itachi was put under Koto-Amatsu-Kami. In this case, Kabuto was unaffected by the technique entirely. As we know, Kabuto does control his Edo Tensei in practically the same manner as Nagato does his dead corpses and summons. He hears and sees everything they do (and likely other senses as well), but he himself is unaffected entirely.

Even if Nagato is caught in Itachi’s Genjutsu, his linked vision will most definitely counter the illusion. From a different “angle” if you want to call it, he’ll be able to distinguish reality from illusion, and effectively ignore the illusion and proceed to counter whatever attack Itachi is cloaking.

Recent revelations have shown that Rinnegan to be the most evolved form of the Sharingan. And while it is true that Nagato's Rinnegan did not progress through each stage of the Sharingan as Madara's had, I find this to be a moot point. The only difference between Madara's Rinnegan and Nagato's is the ability to switch between Sharingan related techniques and Rinnegan related ones. The basic Genjutsu defense of the Rinnegan should be equal or greater to that of the Sharingan. His ability to break out of Genjutsu is entirely possible, although the chances of him getting caught are reduced severely by his fighting style.

With the Rinnegan being an evolved form of the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan, breaking out of Tsukuyomi should not be very difficult for Nagato. Sasuke was able to break the Genjutsu with the simplest form of the Sharingan combined with his skill. Nagato was stated to be a master of the Rinnegan, the most advanced form of the Sharingan.

One most also note that Nagato himself is proficient at Genjutsu use. He put mind seal barriers on ninja's so advanced it stumped Konoha's interrogators. And said jutsu was not just used on one or two ninja. Nagato managed to place information blocking Genjutsu on an entire village of ninja, without ever making face to face contact with any of them.

Nagato was also stated to be a master of the Yin Release due to his Rinnegan, which Genjutsu is a sub-category of.

Countering Amaterasu

This was a much easier topic to cover than Tsukiyomi. Before I begin I'd like to point out the fact that Nagato, in his confrontation with Naruto and Bee, managed to feel Amaterasu's pressure without even looking at Itachi's eyes. This works perfectly with the strategy of avoiding eye contact.

Of course, Amaterasu travels extremely fast. But the manga has already provided a counter to Amaterasu, which is Shinra Tensei. He can also use his jutsu absorption ability to make sure the technique itself ceases to affect him. Amaterasu is much less a factor on Nagato and in the most likely case would simply be used to counter to large summons placed on the battlefield.

Amaterasu is a very powerful technique on Itachi’s part, but its charge is what really gives the opponent the opening to exploit. The initial charge of the attack is relatively long, and as stated before, the “pressure” of Amaterasu can be sensed. Nagato can effectively counter the attack by placing a defensive summon in Itachi’s line-of-sight. He can also shoot a couple missiles with Shuradō, forcing Itachi on the defensive and simultaneously putting up a smoke-screen to block Itachi’s line-of-sight. Unlike the instance in the manga, Nagato is in full control of his body. Hence if Amaterasu hits him, he will immediately counter with either Shinra Tensei or Gakidō, well before the attack does any serious damage. If however, he does end up losing a limb or two, he can heal himself with a quick use of Jigakudō. It should also be noted that Nagato had to cover for Itachi with Shinra Tensei while he was charging Amaterasu, indicating that if Nagato gets a clean hit on Itachi, he may be able to temporarily stop Amaterasu.

Concluding the In-Depth Analysis

Nagato has a much higher chance of victory in this battle than Itachi does. He has swift counters to any and all of Itachi's techniques, whilst the same cannot be said the other way around. Nagato's techniques give him an overwhelmingly powerful offense, as well as a near unbreakable defense, all exhibit Nagato's superiority among these two powerful Dōjutsu users.
I read it, it convinced me that Nagato would win normally, just one thing: if Itachi casts genjutsu first, before Nagato could use summons or other jutsus, Itachi would win.And it says that Itachi's defence is worse than Nagato's but Yata mirror is just as good IMO

I don't think Izangi would be a smart move, he'd lose an eye loosing susanoo and amatarasu/tsukuyomi meaning he's more likely to lose and he was about to lose in the first place at full power.

Just like Garra pulling Madara out, I don't think it's a stretch to say an Uchiha can be pulled out of susanoo. It's even easier with banshou tennin because gravity can go right through the susanoo. Even then he could just pluck Itachi's eyes out like the nail in the piece of wood he was going to kill Kakashi with.
But with banshou tennin he would pull susanoo along with Itachi and thus couldnt harm him...he has to break it to reach Itachi.Then you could say that Banshou tennin could pull a jinchuuriki out of his chakra cloak too,or that banshou tennin can pull a person out of a building without pulling down the buliding. I meant that with Izanagi Itachi is unaffected by any of Nagato's jutsus,for a short time and that should be enoughto cast a genjutsu
 
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Midday

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I read it, it convinced me that Nagato would win normally, just one thing: if Itachi casts genjutsu first, before Nagato could use summons or other jutsus, Itachi would win.And it says that Itachi's defence is worse than Nagato's but Yata mirror is just as good IMO



But with banshou tennin he would pull susanoo along with Itachi and thus couldnt harm him...he has to break it to reach Itachi.Then you could say that Banshou tennin could pull a jinchuuriki out of his chakra cloak too,or that banshou tennin can pull a person out of a building without pulling down the buliding. I meant that with Izanagi Itachi is unaffected by any of Nagato's jutsus,for a short time and that should be enoughto cast a genjutsu
Apparently the susanoo would stay proven by Gaara, also I thought what you did as well, but Deva path clearly pulled a nail out of a piece of wood without the wood following. So i'm not questioning it. Maybe it just affects the gravity of the target but everything else stays the same. Like the woods under normal gravity whilst the nail is being pulled. :shrug:

I still don't think Izanagi is a good idea, to sacrifice an eye just to pull of genjutsu which may not be a guaranteed win. He would lose an ms technique and possibly susanoo since you need both ms techs to use it.
 

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The thing about this tie is nagato's mobility. Even when healthy he still lacks mobility and cannot move and react quickly. Its due to this lack of mobility that got his ass sealed. He cannot stand still like gaara does and fight itachi because itachi will take advantage of this and seal him again.

Secondly he lacks reflexes ability and this could also hinder his chances. Do not know how tsukuyomi will work on him but going by what the manga says and what the databook says nagato isnt related to itachi nor does he have the sharingan to resist it therefore tsukuyomi will affect him.

Also what places an important part is battle intelligence and experience, something that nagato doesnt have fighting as nagato. When using the 6 paths he can take risks because he isnt affected and there is a trick to the path, where they can be revived. Fighting as nagato he cannot take the same risks that he does with the paths, but also he lacks experience fighting in a real fight. The last thing we saw him fight as nagato he got his legs blown off by hanzo and after that he hasnt been in a battle situation fighting as nagato and im certain a ninja with more experience on the battlefield will give him problems even if nagato still holds the raw power difference.

Saying all this nagato is the favourite, but itachi does stand a greater chance than people think.
 
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mamamamonster

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Just because you have the Rinnegan you can defeat everyone. And just because you only have Mangekyo Sharingan doesn't mean you can't beat the Rinnegan. It's only a matter of how you use it.
 

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Apparently the susanoo would stay proven by Gaara, also I thought what you did as well, but Deva path clearly pulled a nail out of a piece of wood without the wood following. So i'm not questioning it. Maybe it just affects the gravity of the target but everything else stays the same. Like the woods under normal gravity whilst the nail is being pulled. :shrug:

I still don't think Izanagi is a good idea, to sacrifice an eye just to pull of genjutsu which may not be a guaranteed win. He would lose an ms technique and possibly susanoo since you need both ms techs to use it.
Deva stepped on the wood thats why only the nail came out (I rewatched that part of the episode:)) Yeah izanagi is not a good idea but if he can defeat Nagato with it its fine with me:)
 

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Deva stepped on the wood thats why only the nail came out (I rewatched that part of the episode:)) Yeah izanagi is not a good idea but if he can defeat Nagato with it its fine with me:)
He doesn't touch the wood.
IMG]http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Naruto/423%20-%20Deva%20Path's%20Abilities!!%20/Naruto_423_16.png[/IMG]

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He doesn't touch the wood.
IMG]http://94.23.34.161/manga/mangas/Naruto/423%20-%20Deva%20Path's%20Abilities!!%20/Naruto_423_16.png[/IMG]

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But in the anime he does step on it:) The manga drawing is not always the clearest.
 

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the funny thing about all this threads is that for a unknown reason everyone who is facing the oposite side, always talk like if nagato will act like they think they want..

Manga Facts only 2 persons in the manga have done or fight without looking itachis eyes..
guys as a method and kabuto has a another one..

there is not proof that if nagato face itachi he will not look at his eyes, people just like to make things up.

Nagato like everyone else will fall for the genjutsu like it or not, even a perfect host fell for it and itachihimselff and you want me to believe that nagato wont. lol

Itachi killed nagato in the war, one amataresu, nagato was lucky he was an edo then he used shinra after a while, it means itachi already killed him.

Nagato has no counter againts genjutsu so he will just fall like a fly and itachi make genjutsus in a blink of an eye, thats manga facts!
Nagato is a normal shinobi with overpower eyes, gives rinnengan to Iruka, Konohamaru, kiba or a foldder ninja and there will be not difference..

people always talk about uchihas been just good because of their eyes, but nagato is the worst because without it oh my a chunnin rank ninja
 
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Scooby Doo

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the funny thing about all this threads is that for a unknown reason everyone who is facing the oposite side, always talk like if nagato will act like they think they want..

Manga Facts only 2 persons in the manga have done or fight without looking itachis eyes..
guys as a method and kabuto has a another one..

there is not proof that if nagato face itachi he will not look at his eyes, people just like to make things up.

Nagato like everyone else will fall for the genjutsu like it or not, even a perfect host fell for it and itachihimselff and you want me to believe that nagato wont. lol

Itachi killed nagato in the war, one amataresu, nagato was lucky he was an edo then he used shinra after a while, it means itachi already killed him.

Nagato has no counter againts genjutsu so he will just fall like a fly and itachi make genjutsus in a blink of an eye, thats manga facts!
Nagato is a normal shinobi with overpower eyes.
Well said
 

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I dont think itachi can ever over power Nagato... Itachi might have insane techniques but Nagato has enough to overpower Itach with mid difficulty.
However, Itachi can easily think of a way to outsmart Nagato coz i never got the feeling that nagato fought with his brains and strength, unlike Itachi.
 

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I dont think itachi can ever over power Nagato... Itachi might have insane techniques but Nagato has enough to overpower Itach with mid difficulty.
However, Itachi can easily think of a way to outsmart Nagato coz i never got the feeling that nagato fought with his brains and strength, unlike Itachi.
Itachi has always outsmarted his opponents. And that's the reason why he usually wins his battles.
 

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I dont think itachi can ever over power Nagato... Itachi might have insane techniques but Nagato has enough to overpower Itach with mid difficulty.
However, Itachi can easily think of a way to outsmart Nagato coz i never got the feeling that nagato fought with his brains and strength, unlike Itachi.
i feel like the flame storm will come at me.

it is simple, nagato is a jounin with Over overpower Eyes.
give to any ramdon and foldder and there wont be any different the same results.

Nagato can blow fields, mountains and the earth but he will still fall for itachis tricks, 1 genjutsu simple!.

Amataresu will kill him and if for some reason it doesnt kill him well he will be in a real bad shape and without an arm or leg..

Also when a ninja performance a jutsu that ninja needs concentration, if you are feeling pain it will be hard to cast a jutsu because your concentration is somewhere else..

Amataresu, nagato will be burning.. the same happend to 8tails that guy was crying like a girl.
 

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I dont think itachi can ever over power Nagato... Itachi might have insane techniques but Nagato has enough to overpower Itach with mid difficulty.
However, Itachi can easily think of a way to outsmart Nagato coz i never got the feeling that nagato fought with his brains and strength, unlike Itachi.
i dont know why ppl assume that nagato is an idiot. :sy:
 
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