He was going all out as seen when his eye bleeds, he is trying his hardest however he just hadnt adjusted to the eye yet. He states in the most recent chapter he has finally gotten used to his new power and was able to use CTs.
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Crossroads
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Ah, yeah I think we're on the same page.. just a different context.
When I say he didn't go all out, I mean he had untapped ability that he couldn't or didn't use at the time. So, essentially, I agree with you.
When I say he didn't go all out, I mean he had untapped ability that he couldn't or didn't use at the time. So, essentially, I agree with you.
KidGamer65
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SM Jiraiya is on there, he's just in Tier 9 and he's listed as "Jiraiya". But I'll add Base Jiraiya.
I'll add them as well.
He doesn't need to push Naruto to high diff to be on his tier.
Evades it, and then trashes Kakashi's PS with his own, then he uses his Rinnegan to kill Sasuke when he becomes tangible to attack.
-Indra and Asura
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That is a fact. Indra's Susanoo also has horns, a trait Sasuke's didn't have until Hagoromo gave him half his chakra. So yeah, Indra uses a Rikudo Chakra Powered PS, which is far above the standard.-Susanoo is powered by the user's chakra, the stronger the chakra the better the Susanoo.
-He'd shitstomp Edo Madara because a PS powered by Rikudo's Chakra>>>A normal one, as seen when Sasuke's got much stronger ost power up.
On par with Orochimaru period. He didn't get any stronger between Part 1 and Part 2. The only thing that changed was the scaling for the battles, which is irrelevant here. Old Hiruzen is on par with Oro, and Prime Hiruzen is much much stronger. This isn't rocket science. He goes a tier above him.
Lol. A cocky Orochimaru getting beaten by Itachi doesn't mean anything. At the height of their powers, Oro would beat 3-Tomoe Itachi if he plays it smart. Not to mention Itachi only severed his hand, that doesn't mean 3-T Itachi>Orochimaru.
Retconned hype=/=Legitimate statements. When you can prove to me why Prime Hiruzen isn't much stronger than Old Hiruzen and why that statement is false. (even though this should be common sense) then we can talk.
What manga are you reading, genius? He blocked all of Gai's attacks and fodderized him with one swing of a stick. That isn't called "having a hard time". And do you even know what you are talking about here?
-Blind Madara and JJ Madara aren't the same thing.
-Blind Madara is stronger than SM Naruto, and everyone on his tier by far, so once again, your argument for me moving him down doesn't even make any sense.
-Sage Mode isn't going to change the fact that he can use Susanoo, unless you have some real evidence.
[/QUOTE]
Fanfic is strong with this one. Blocking Ay in free fall (thus he's only moving at the speed gravity is taking him at, not at his full speed)=/=Keeping up with Ay's full speed. So that is false.
Part 1 Gaara had Sand Clones, and the sheer fact that Jin Gaara's sand is denser, stronger, and the fact that he can make and control more at a time means he's stronger. Sensing and Sealing abilities aren't going to put him over that.
Thanks bro.
Then what? Kisame(tier 9) could certainly put a better fight against Mu,2nd Mizukage or JGaara (all in tier 8) than Sasuke could against Naruto. I lo'L hard at your logic.
Except he isnt capable of evaiding it since long range Kamui alone works faster als Naruto could fly 1 cm in the air. Adding Sasuke's inferiority to Naruto its not even a contest anymore.
And in case Sasukes ps gets close to Kakahsis then Kamui shurikens hurps him away.
Indras chakra enhanced MS Sasuke<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Rikudous chakra enhanced MS Kakashi. Nuff said.
His chakra power doesnt even worth mentioning compared to Rikudou's.
Lo'L no. Edo Madara pretty much has Rikudou's chakra. And as I pointed out Rikudou's chakra lo'Lz at Indra's.
Technically you are the one who should prove that P Hiruzen is much stronger than the old one as you claim it lo'L.
Too bad that Oro admitted that Itachi was much stronger than him. Ohh but it isn't a...what you said? "legitimate statement"? Your own logic strike back you.
=th Gui cleraly pushed Rikudou SM Madara with Rinnegan back. Meanwhile SM Naruto got lo'Led by blind no powered up Madara.
Clap.
It is what you say.
SM gives a huge boost to one's abilities.
Uhh facepalm. Jump on Sasuke=/= free fall. Or next time you will also claim that Itachi would have blitzed Bee with a "free fall"
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Proofs?
Nagato was hit by Lariat, flew back along with Bee's v2 Lariat, and then activated Lariat, yet took no damage [
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]. Much different to the scenario you proposed. Fair enough on Nagato's mobility. Base B is about Ay v1. Sasuke was capable of keeping up, and even countering the V1's elbow with a chidori, while Sasuke could do nothing whatsoever to a base Killer B. He could only dodge his attacks, never counter, he could not do anything beyond that without help. And yea, but the fact he was capable of reacting to Killer B's striking speed (free fall doesn't affect it) while also restricting B's arm movement with a single arm is quite the feat. Lol? Bee cannot defeat Nagato in BM. Nagato absorbs any of his attacks. ST counters nigh every TBB while it's prepping. Asura abilities counter act the easily cut off tentacles. Chakra rods can also have strong effects on BM. I don't see how Killer B in BM does anything to Nagato. CT restricted, Nagato still wins mid diff.
Fair enough. KCM Nardo still gets mid diff'd, though I agree, he won't take on both at the same time. And it's doubtable FRS can destroy the CT orb, especially with the needle like attacks that will barely be penetrating the condensed rock, despite the heavy energy output it has.
Well, they attacked him all individually (but in a short time frame) and he couldn't react or counter a single attack. Yea, Obito would in fact would KCM Nardo. Anyways, this is somewhat irrelevant to my initial argumentations of Nagato receiving his own tier with Rinne Obito, but since it's unlikely to happen, I'll leave it at that.
KidGamer65
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No, I lol hard at these annoying post that show that you can't comprehend the manga, or my posts.
Mu or the 2nd Mizukage beat Kisame, and no he doesn't put a good fight against either them. He loses mid diff, and they are bigger threats to the upper tiered characters, so their spots are fine.
Naruto beats Sasuke mid diff, not easily enough to warrant anyone changing a tier.
Except Rinnegan Teleportation>Naruto's flight speed.
Except Naruto was flying nowhere close to full speed unless you think Sasuke is as fast as him, since they touched Kaguya at the same time. Sasuke's inferiority to Naruto has shit to do with him and Kakashi.
Evaded or countered with Enton Magatama.
What the hell are you even talking about? Sasuke's Susanoo is powered by his own chakra, not Indra's dormant chakra. Once again you prove that you can't read.
Irrelevant, as I've already shown that he obtained more of his father's chakra than Kakashi did. So my points are valid while you are spouting random nonsense.
His Susanoo didn't get any stronger, and he's trash
Already did. Orochimaru witnessed his prime and his old state, and said that his old state was
So? Itachi being stronger than Orochimaru doesn't mean that they can't be on the same tier. I suggest you learn how tier lists work and then come back to me.
He got all his attacks blocked and he was fodderized. He got knocked back by a Madara who shitstomps everyone on that tier. Tell me more about why this means Naruto moves down.
Then you are merely arguing just to be difficult as there is zero reason Naruto should move down.
You obviously have to have those abilities first.
Once again, you are wrong. Jumping up only to fall down by yourself puts you in free fall as nothing is accelerating your body while in mid air. Lets not try to debate against physics now. And Itachi didn't blitz B, genius. Read the manga.
Jin Gaara's sand blocked C3, and that was Sand he took from the village. War Gaara's sand has no feat that stands up to that, especially when his mom shield gets penetrated by Yasaka Magatama.
Its no different.
-Gets hit with Rasengan.
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-Uses Preta Path.
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Nagato was messed up by a bunch of explosive tags. No way is he going to tank Lariat when Kisame had Samehada and chakra absorption backing up yet Lariat still blew out his chest.
The only reason Sasuke had trouble with Base B is because of his swordsmanship, not his speed. The only time where his speed became a slight issue was when he put on his cloak, but
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Ay moves the same way, thus he was able to dodge elbow due to Sharingan and land a Chidori on him. Base B isn't as fast as V1 Ay.
So naruto wasn't using his top speed when he was trying to touch kaguya in order to seal hear !!!!!
Yes sasuke's PS can evade kamui shurukins from a enough distance or block it with enton shurukins
But sasuke 's PS needs to get close to kakashi's PS in order to try to destroy it unless you think that sasuke's PS can destroy kakashi's PS without a direct hit ,with just its shokewave !!!
So when sasuke's PS gets close to kakashi's PS and tries to hit it with his PS's swords ,kakashi's PS will shot it with kamui shurukins ,and from this so small distance ,sasuke's PS won't be able to evade kamui shurukins ,and sasuke's PS cant use enton shurukins while holding its swords trying to attack kakashi's PS ,alright!!?
Also I want to see your proof that sasuke's PS is superior to kakashi's
Even if sasuke evaded kamui snipe by teleporting ,he wouldn't evade the next kamui snipe,kamui raiki or kamui teleportation , since his s/t has a cooldown
Yes sasuke's PS can evade kamui shurukins from a enough distance or block it with enton shurukins
But sasuke 's PS needs to get close to kakashi's PS in order to try to destroy it unless you think that sasuke's PS can destroy kakashi's PS without a direct hit ,with just its shokewave !!!
So when sasuke's PS gets close to kakashi's PS and tries to hit it with his PS's swords ,kakashi's PS will shot it with kamui shurukins ,and from this so small distance ,sasuke's PS won't be able to evade kamui shurukins ,and sasuke's PS cant use enton shurukins while holding its swords trying to attack kakashi's PS ,alright!!?
Also I want to see your proof that sasuke's PS is superior to kakashi's
Even if sasuke evaded kamui snipe by teleporting ,he wouldn't evade the next kamui snipe,kamui raiki or kamui teleportation , since his s/t has a cooldown
Brother Numpsay
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Your whole premise is built upon that Kabuto can't fight on par with PS. So I am not denying Manda 2 loses to PS. You already agree that Kabuto has a jutsu that can stop any form of Susanoo but cannot not utilize it match up wise, "because he is limited in size comparison". I made a point by addressing something in Kabuto's arsenal that debunks the claim size battle will be a problem.
Now you may say but in what factor, even if he also has size on his side, can Manda provide:
Constriction and Resist
- Constriction: I expect you to tell me to proof the strength argument to even make this possible, but thats not needed to be proven. As snakes naturally have feats to constrict things such as human beings (bringing it back to basics and work the thought process from there) . In fact the manga has provided up feats of physical strength =/= resisting constriction. Ill bring them all up here. 1. We know Sakura had superhuman strength with chakra enhance since beginning shippuden. But as you can see even with physical strength boost wasn't going to help Sakura overpower a bungee rope w/ a kunai attach to it[
You must be registered for see links]. 2. Tsunade too: Orochimaru use his tongue attack and strip her neck, with her quick option to just bring him close to her instead[You must be registered for see links]. Most important example would be the Raikage. He was able to block a swing from V3 Susanoo with ease[You must be registered for see links]. And yet a lower level Susanoo took hold of him and struggled to break out[You must be registered for see links]. With that said Susanoo is going to have a hard time resisting restriction. Which buys time for Kabuto to use a jutsu that can beat PS
- Resist: Though Manda will lose in the fight with PS doesn't mean he isn't going out without putting a fight. Manda ability can still resist PS attacks since 1, Manda follows commands and 2) its mass and jaw power can hold down PS powerful swings. Following commands is important as it will follow Kabuto's reaction timing[
You must be registered for see links]. Sage Mode Kabuto sensory is much superior then Base Hashirama, who was able to predict the sword swing. Manda 2 should be able to replicate the same feats as Senpou Mokuton, resisting PS swings, to avoid destruction.
That was the whole point to prove that shockwaves have limited hitbox.
Remember Meteor was on the side of him, so that should tell you the motion he swung it at. Even then the hit box of the shockwave didn't reach the Gokage because the way it was swung (shockwave wasn't on the ground). That just shows that the shockwave is as thick as the sword. Adding the fact that sound travels all around the user not just at the shockwave spot.
1. The air pressure too focus and is moving to fast to pick up the sound to go along with it. As I also mention the sound surrounds him and not in just one spot. No current =/= no sound travel.
2. The problem is when its in motion already he can't change the blade swung. The blade isn't has thick as you think, proven when I showed the weapon compare to Kaguya. So Kabuto with better precog then Base Hashirama, who can predict its sword movement, should be able to side step from its swing. On top of that, Kabuto has feats of taking advantage of opponents leveling the ground below him[
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]. Kabuto also has other options to support himself. If he can level the ground on Susanoo's feet he can also change the trajectory of PS swing. Simply using Doton on his feat with Jirobo style[
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]. Or Muki Tensei if you don't think Kabuto can't make a decent wall that big, even though first inexperience doton user (learned under a minute) made a bigger one before. It can't overpower sound, since its too focus on specific area and the fact that shockwave doesn't have the option to do that. Its option is to deflect the soundwaves which it can't.
Kabuto has everything to fight on par with PS users.
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King El Bridgett
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KidGamer65
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He can utilize it because 1. Sasuke/Madara can stop him. 2. Size. Having the tool means nothing unless you can apply it first.
Uh, no. That makes no sense, at all. If you are strong enough to break out of a binding, then you'll break out. Snakes bind humans because no human is strong enough to overpower and break out. Nor has the manga shown that "strength=/=resistance when bound"
1. Sakura's superhuman strength is only when she punches the ground. Her chakra enhanced strength doesn't make her overall stronger than she normally is. Even if it did, all this means is that it was strong enough to bind her, not that it ignored her strength and bound her.
2. Tsunade's neck was bound, and she found it more efficient to use that opportunity to land a hit. That isn't proof that she couldn't have his hold.
3. Lol. And where exactly do you see Ay struggling? The moment he was picked up he was caught in Genjutsu. So once again, moot point.
Not to mention Susanoo isn't going to stand there and watch as Manda tries to bind it. Manda charges at it and it gets cut apart.
1. Don't compare Manda II to Senjutsu Enhanced Mokuton without any basis for the comparison.
2. Manda II has literally shown nothing that would lead me to believe it can catch PS's sword with its jaw. So it gets cut apart. Even if it can catch one blade (It can't) the second one would cut it apart.
3. Manda II isn't going to equal Kabuto when it comes to reaction speed. That scan proves nothing as Kabuto was inside those snakes, thus when he moved, they moved. Kabuto being able to issue orders to Manda II doesn't mean that it'll move as fast as him, or that it'll react as fast as he can, because SM Kabuto>Any snake when it comes to reactions. That's like saying the toads will be just as reflexive as Naruto if he orders them to do something. False.
It literally stands no chance.
It didn't hit them because he didn't swing in their direction.
What is the bold based on?
Mugen Onsa's Sound Waves travel in one direction as shown against Temari. The only thing he needs to do is blow it back. If it was from all directions, then Temari wouldn't have been able to counter by blowing everything in front of her away.
Having Sage Mode doesn't automatically mean that Kabuto has reactions and foot speed superior to Hashirama, and Hashirama simply caught the blade. He didn't evade it, ever. So I don't know where "Kabuto will evade it" is coming from, but it isn't happening, at least not with Sasuke considering in a weaker Susanoo he forced Juubito (who has far greater reactions and speed compared to the likes of Kabuto) to block instead of evade. So once again, unless you think that Kabuto is faster than Juubito, he isn't evading anything.
Though you have a point with the Kaguya thing, though they can just cut him up into multiple pieces to finish him off.
Except this trick doesn't work more than once.
Too focused on a specific area? The Sound is only coming from one direction, so if he swings his blade in that direction, the sound waves get blown away and overpowered.
Nope.
KidGamer65
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Some Naruto clones with chakra arms can fodderstomp Sasuke as things are now. But yeah, call this massacre a high-midd diff fight if you want lo'L.
Anyway Muu isnt beating Kisame since Jinton is what all he has but Samehada can absorb it. And 2nd Mizukage has good genjutsu but Kisame-Samehada fusion can sense chakra so the mizukage can't hide from them and lacks speed feats to dodge so he will be neg blitzed easily.
Which means he can evade kamui -once. Then his eye goes to sh*tdown time giving Kakashi a nice chance to kamui snipe him right there. And since his eye ability is short ranged he would fail to evade a Juubi-sized Kamui in every respect.
Too bad that these shurikens Lo'lzblitzed those chakra arms which would have blitzed Sasuke if Narutos kage bunshin hadnt saved him. And this enton magatama thing lacks the defensive feats to block a kamui shuriken.It was only used for offense you can't prove its durable enough to block whatever.
At the kage summit arc Indras chakra was already flowing to Sasuke ,confirmed and stated by Naruto. But even so he failed to pull out a PS lo'L which clearly shows Indras chakra are nothing compared to Rikudous.
Indra.doesnt.have.rikudous.charka. Indras+Ashuras+bijues=tentailsJinchurikiRikudous chakra. Ahuras+Indras= base vRikudous chakra.thats why only those who gains both Uchiha and Senju power can become a wielder of Rinnenan. Lo'L you falling so low.
Ahh you just keep falling. EMS Madara had never showed stabilized PS until he gained the Rinnegan which means Rikudous chakra gave him a nice powerup.
You forgot to give a link btw.
Then i will explain in a simple way: Oro<<3tomoe Itachi<<<<<<<<<<edo Itachi.
No, Minato was fodderized but Guy did push him back. Feel the difference. And blind Madara without Hashis SM could fodderize noone from that tier with the exception of SM Naruto,JGaara and PHiruzen.
He was fodderized by base blind Madara meanwhile Guy pushed SM Rikudou Madara back.
Lo'L then prove me that Madara could have used v3 susanoo even without SM.
Its only true when you jump vertically, genius. In every other way your initial speed will affect the falling speed of the jump.
Lo'L you should take your advice and reread the manga as the reason why Bee wasnt blitzed is Nagato who warned Bee by shouting "above!".
War arc Gaaras blocked Jokie boys explosion which make them equal in this term. But in terms of speed war arc Gaara's is superior by feats.
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RustledJimmies
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King El Bridgett
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Brother Numpsay
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The same can be said vise versa.
I was pointing out that the muscles in your arm are doing a different workout when resisting a bind then your average pick and lift body strength. Much like how wrestling works.
1.@Bold dude, tell me how that makes sense. Her enhance strength results to her pumping chakra w/ precise on her body, doesn't matter what limb she is using. What I was bringing up as the power of her strength doesn't mean it will work as effectively by being held down.
2. We can't disprove each other by scenario considering Oro has full knowledge of her strength and thought this was the best option to over power her.
3. Ok thats reasonable to say. Now do you think he could of broken out anyway? And with what diff?
The scenario we were talking about was close quarters.
The comparison is weight x mass.
weight x mass shows enough evidence that its body weight and muscles can fight something the same mass. We talking about super ninja's who have been catching blades around the same mass as them. Even Manda 1 showed this again Gamabunta.
You cant effectively use a sword when someone is holding your arms and legs down.
Not true, Kabuto said Manda 2 has the best senses compare to the king of snakes. We already witness Edo Itachi stating the snakes he was fighting against knows their exact movements through heat sensing. But one failed to dodge Sasuke sword when aren't using their senses.@Bold That doesn't make sense, he wasn't inside all 3 snakes. Using Naruto or anybody with toad contract as your proof isnt proof since both contracts has different communication and attributes.
Even if you still disagree with all of these, Kabuto already breach PS to which the sword will be useless to use for being so close Thus genjutsued
The motion swung disagrees. And the fact that his hitbox would be very difficult to land that close anyway. When Madara got even closer guess what he did[
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].Base on science:
No it covers all around[
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] from Shiki reaction. Temari blow it from all directions. air current above her, **** back to to built wind, and blew forward towards Tayuya. It covered all around Temari.Does Hashirama have feats to dodge Susanoo arrow? Hashirama making the decsion to catch it instead of dodging doesn't =/= that he couldn't dodge. Then you are suggesting Hashirama couldn't avoid nor escape him [
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].<- The context here shows that Madara leveling the ground would put him at a devantage anyway.That isn't even the same example w/ Juubito as he was already in motion when Sasuke was keeping track. But being one position moving at the last sec is much different to change where they decide they are going to move, when you already swung in motion
No speed strike speed to do that unless you think Six Path boost didn't make help Sasuke perform that feat. Otherwise your gonna need evidence.
Why does that matter? Every point can factor PS users trouble to defeat Kabuto as much as vise versa. Sounded bias here
Same as above. And most of my premise was talking about close quarters to which PS has no hitbox to use shockwaves.
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KidGamer65
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I never said it was mid-high diff. Just Mid diff. And the bold is nothing but garbage from either a troll, a moron, or a Narutard. Take your pic.
Mu goes invisible, and slices his right arm off, thus no Samehada. He can't be felt nor sensed, not like Kisame can do either anyway. Not to mention I have my doubts on whether Samehada can safely absorb Jinton since it felt the heal from the Katon, and it took damage from the Lariat before it absorbed B's chakra.
Genjutsu will be out LONG before Kisame ever fuses with Samehada. From there on out, its useless since Kisame doesn't have the AoE attacks strong enough to smash the clam without having to pinpoint its location. He'd literally send water pistols through his brain as many times as he needs to before he dies.
Then there's Joki Boy. Not made of chakra, so he can't absorb it, and there is no way in hell he's tanking it.
He destroys Susanoo, then if Kakashi tries to warp him away, he evades with Rinnegan while teleporting over to him, and kills him, and the size of the Kamui Barrier is irrelevant if he warps right behind Kakashi, or if he warps Kakashi to him and kills him.
Yes, Kamui Shuriken "lolblitzed" STATIONARY chakra arms. Lol, lets not wank now.
Inside Sasuke's body=/=His dominant form of chakra. Sasuke has Indra's chakra, but his own chakra is obviously different you tard, otherwise Hashirama would have no chakra of his own after Asura left him.
Not to mention once he got EMS he was able to get PS, so it doesn't matter regardless.
Rikudo disagrees. "One inherited my strong chakra genes" Read that, and then tell me what that means before repeating your defeated points.
Horns have always been related to Rikudo Sennin in some way. Sasuke didn't get horns till getting half of his chakra.
This shit again? PS is an EMS Technique.
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is stablized Susanoo. Just armored onto Kurama.-Same blades.
-Same shoulder guards.
-Same face.
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-So old that he can't use Shadow Clones, which were a staple in his moveset.
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]
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-So old that Enma seemed heavy to him.
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-Oro has never seen him strain so much.
[
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]-The only reason Hiruzen lost was age, and that he would have won had he been 10 years younger, which isn't even his prime.
Except if they both went all out, 3-tomoe Itachi would die against Orochimaru.
Gai managed to push him back because of his speed in the Gates, but at the end of the day, Madara blocked all of it and smacked him away. He got fodderized, but not as bad as Madara.
Dafuq?
So, Madara who has all of Hashirama's Base Mokuton Jutsu (don't forget about his Edo feats) can absorb chakra, can sense chakra loses to Mu? (Who he shitted on in a weaker form) Itachi? Minato? Obito? Blind Madara is a Base Hashirama who can absorb chakra and use Susanoo. Its clear that everyone in this tier gets raped..
Lol, get out of here.
He was fodderized by base blind Madara meanwhile Guy pushed SM Rikudou Madara back.
Sage Mode is useless.
Wow, I suggest you stop posting on NB and take a damn science class. Jumping vertically (Side to side) doesn't effect your speed as you aren't falling from above, thus gravity isn't going to take you anywhere, just the speed and momentum of your own jump.
If I jump into the air, and begin falling towards the ground, that is free fall. Open a physics book and read for a change.
-You move at your own speed while you jump into the air.
-When you reach the peak of your jump, you reach the slowest speed.
-Then gravity, not your own speed, takes you back down.
Then B says "I know"
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Like I said, read the manga.
C3>>Joki Boy. So no, once again you are wrong.
Gaara manipulated and formed this amount of sand as C3 exploded.
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War Arc Gaara has no feat that surpasses this.
Lol, my reaction exactly....shit is retarded as hell.