My Tier List.

[Haizaki]

Did you agree?

Your explanation made sense but I don't really know..One of those things I'm unsure about. I think the force can still push it back in a way.

 

[Conspirator.]

I have been thinking-couldn't you add "Base Hashirama" to your list? So you have SM hashirama in tier 5, and base hashirama in tier 6? Since Base Hashirama is roughly around EMS madara's level.(without the kyuubi of course)

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I have been thinking-couldn't you add "Base Hashirama" to your list? So you have SM hashirama in tier 5, and base hashirama in tier 6? Since Base Hashirama is roughly around EMS madara's level.(without the kyuubi of course)

Hashirama cant put down PS without SM firepower

 

[RedRobin]

Hashirama cant put down PS without SM firepower

Wood golem or dragon can restrain it.

And possible absorb the chakra that is holding it together no?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Wood golem or dragon can restrain it.

And possible absorb the chakra that is holding it together no?

Wood Golem you saw when used by Edo Hashirama was powered by Senpou. PS will dwarf all of Base Hashirama Mokuton

 

[RedRobin]

Wood Golem you saw when used by Edo Hashirama was powered by Senpou. PS will dwarf all of Base Hashirama Mokuton

Spoiler

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A wood golem was fighting both PS and Kyuubi. Doesnt matter if PS is bigger. The dragon can still wrap around it and restrain it, holding down the legs and arms.

Also doesnt it absorb chakra?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Spoiler

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A wood golem was fighting both PS and Kyuubi. Doesnt matter if PS is bigger. The dragon can still wrap around it and restrain it, holding down the legs and arms.

Also doesnt it absorb chakra?

That unstablized PS isn't remotely close to EMS at his peak compare to this:

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closer look @ Base Hashirama mokuton compare to meteor (which is close to Edo Madara unstable PS):

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It will be too small to wrap around PS body, seeing how legged Susanoo was even with wood dragon in size combat[

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]

 

[RedRobin]

That unstablized PS isn't remotely close to EMS at his peak compare to this:

Spoiler

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closer look @ Base Hashirama mokuton compare to meteor (which is close to Edo Madara unstable PS):

Spoiler

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It will be too small to wrap around PS body, seeing how legged Susanoo was even with wood dragon in size combat[

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]

I see your point but that mokuton is just for a forest. The golem has much

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than that.

Also that is not legged, that is

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. You can see the sword holder as well as the wings in the back.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I see your point but that mokuton is just for a forest. The golem has much

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than that.

Also that is not legged, that is

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. You can see the sword holder as well as the wings in the back.

Its thicker but in thee end to small to be effective once fully stabilize.

The scan you post shows it leveling up from legged Susanoo to Perfect.

 

[Conspirator.]

Hashirama cant put down PS without SM firepower

EMS madara's PS stalemated with a SM enhanced wood golem so you have a point. However I don't think the difference between EMS madara(With PS of course) and base Hashirama is that large to constitute the 2 being in different tiers.

 

[Dannie]

Where's my baby Karin? :bouncy:

Spoiler

nah, good list

 

[ShinjuMadara]

3rd eye madara is above Hagoromo

 

[KidGamer65]

That its true that it can, but in Close quarters that scenario can't happen.

There is no reason why Manda can't be killed by PS's blade in close quarters.

Its terrible because the range it produces waves only comes from the tip of the sword. These waves are only effective by spacing from their opponent. First scan shows this:

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Thats why Hashirama was able to counter the jutsu (other then his method of countering in that scan above) in base form too[

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].

By simply avoiding the shockwaves is stay in range. The sword entity itself is an other thing to which even Hashirama without SM can escape. Kaguya can be use as a visual example[

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]

Hashirama countered the blade because Madara swung downward, no shockwave was produced as you could see. When he swung it horizontally, Hashirama didn't counter, and instead got all his Mokuton cut in half.

I fail to see how

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has a terrible hitbox. When everything in front of it was wrecked. I fail to see how Kabuto isn't going to get hit despite how close he is when everything in the swing's path was wrecked. Staying in range isn't going to help because:

1. Mokujin surviving, or evading the PS slash at close range doesn't mean that the sound waves going directly for PS won't be blown away by the air pressure and the force behind the swing. There is literally no way he can miss it as its coming right at him.

2. This would mean that shockwaves aren't an option to kill Kabuto (assuming you're correct though) except he can be killed without them, as he isn't evading PS's blade if its coming straight for him. The blade is wide and thick enough that if it hits him, he isn't going to be cut in half, he'll be splattered all across the ground, and he isn't going to evade it, not when EMS precognation from someone slower than Madara (Sasuke) and with the same Choku Tomoe (Enhanced pre cog) was able to tag Juubito with a slower sword slash. Hashirama never outright evaded a PS slash anyway, so I don't know where that is coming from.

Shockwaves sounds is too concentrated to overpower Soundwaves, since Shockwave will move faster then sound

Shockwaves moving faster than sound shouldn't change the fact that if they meet, it'll overpower it. I don't see why not.

I have been thinking-couldn't you add "Base Hashirama" to your list? So you have SM hashirama in tier 5, and base hashirama in tier 6? Since Base Hashirama is roughly around EMS madara's level.(without the kyuubi of course)

I'll add him.

 

[Rιver]

Fegsta, what's with that avatar?

Levi avatars went too mainstream...​

-Amaterasu was already countered in canon. Not only did B manage to block it with his tentacle, he also showed that by using his Octopus Leg Clone, he can escape it. So that is a counter to Amaterasu right there.

-Totsuka is countered by B fighting long range. If Itachi is too close, B spins around with Bijuu Hachimaki, slaps Itachi's Susanoo away by making physical contact with his tentacles and them fires Bijuu Dama at him, and no, Yata isn't repelling it. Nothing backs that up but obvious hyperbole. And hyperbole isn't an argument. If Itachi somehow gets close and Hachimaki isn't a wise choice, he feints him out with an octopus leg clone.

-A long range fight pretty much means that Tsukuyomi's chances of hitting are small.

-V2 forces Itachi to use a Skeletal Susanoo or above. He did

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in V1. V2 is much stronger. Despite Kisame absorbing most of B's chakra, the attack broke through and blew out his chest. Ribcage gets overpowered and smashed through with no effort whatsoever while V2 can be broken by enough hits from V2 Killer B. So it'd be recommended that he uses a V3 or above.

That counter can be countered, since Sharingan can track him down as well as the fact that Itachi can stab him with Totsuka no Tsurugi which ends him at that instant.

Who's to say he even gets that chance? B would need to get distance faster than Itachi. While that is unlikely to happen, even if he does, he's always vulnerable to Amaterasu.

Wrong definition of hyperbole. Hyperbole would be something that has been contradicted or obviously false; e.g. Haku being speed of light, despite the fact that many haven't evaded attacks at speed of sound who are obviously faster than him. Has Yata no Kagami ever been penetrated nor even cracked? Never. It's withstood every attack, and it backs up the the statement done not only in Databook, but also manga. In fact, even Madara's Gunbai absorbed and repelled Naruto's miniature bijūdama which has hardly any canon description and is obviously weaker. It's not hyperbole, it's a fact that it can repel any incoming attack in the manga since it has every time it has faced one.

He doesn't need V3 and hardly even V2. A ribcage took on a Rasengan this size with no notable damage except a bit of layer coming out

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. Another withstood an impact from E

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. Facing the facts here, I hardly doubt he can even scratch a V2 nor V1 if he couldn't kill Kisame nor Sasuke with one blow. If he does try that, he also gets grabbed and stabbed with Totsuka no Tsurugi or crushed with sheer force

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.​

​

 

[KidGamer65]

That counter can be countered, since Sharingan can track him down as well as the fact that Itachi can stab him with Totsuka no Tsurugi which ends him at that instant.​

Sharingan was fooled in canon. So no, it won't track him down, and he can counter Totsuka the same way. So he seals a clone and not the real B.

Who's to say he even gets that chance? B would need to get distance faster than Itachi. While that is unlikely to happen, even if he does, he's always vulnerable to Amaterasu.

V1 B moves faster than Itachi does, so that isn't an issue. Bijuu Hachimaki tosses his Susanoo away with ease as well, so he can get some distance if he wants to, and the counter to Amaterasu is already listed above.

Wrong definition of hyperbole. Hyperbole would be something that has been contradicted or obviously false; e.g. Haku being speed of light, despite the fact that many haven't evaded attacks at speed of sound who are obviously faster than him. Has Yata no Kagami ever been penetrated nor even cracked? Never. It's withstood every attack, and it backs up the the statement done not only in Databook, but also manga. In fact, even Madara's Gunbai absorbed and repelled Naruto's miniature bijūdama which has hardly any canon description and is obviously weaker. It's not hyperbole, it's a fact that it can repel any incoming attack in the manga since it has every time it has faced one.

exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

That is the definition of Hyperbole. Don't know who told you that it has to be a contradicted statement to be a hyperbole, but that's false.

And this is the fallacy that you are using right now. Down to the letter.

17. No - limits fallacy (NLF)

This is when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).

Example: "Itachi said that no one without a Mangekyou Sharingan can defeat him. Therefore he can beat all of DC, Marvel, DBZ, and Tenchi Muyo."

The person in this argument holds Itachi's statement to be absolute truth, ignoring the possibility that Itachi has no knowledge of certain enemies, or never expected to encounter them. The same can be said of Kishimoto: He never intended for his characters to be pitted in battle against characters from other works of fiction, so therefore statements like this do not hold true to other works of fiction necessarily. Furthermore, there is the possibility that in - universe, Itachi was lying, bluffing, misinformed, or deluded.

Yata being stated to block ALL attacks is a hyperbolic statement, and you saying that since it has blocked every attack, thus it has no limits makes no sense, and is a fallacy. Blocking what it blocked in the manga doesn't mean its blocking 1, or 4 Bijuu Dama, ever. Manga and Databook stating that it blocks all attacks doesn't make it any less hyperbolic.

He doesn't need V3 and hardly even V2. A ribcage took on a Rasengan this size with no notable damage except a bit of layer coming out

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. Another withstood an impact from E

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. Facing the facts here, I hardly doubt he can even scratch a V2 nor V1 if he couldn't kill Kisame nor Sasuke with one blow. If he does try that, he also gets grabbed and stabbed with Totsuka no Tsurugi or crushed with sheer force

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.[/FONT]

Nope. Madara knocked Naruto and the Rasengan away before it ever exploded, as you can see in the next page and since you can clearly see that no explosion occurred. So all it did was take the impact of Rasengan hitting it.

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, and his V1 Lariat was shown to do more or at the very least comparable damage, than Liger Bomb. V2 B is much stronger than Ay, so his Lariat is much stronger than Ay's attacks. V2 B would wreck a Ribcage Susanoo. Kisame had a large sword that could absorb chakra softening the blow for him and he still got his chest blown out by Lariat. A direct hit would have ended him right there.

V1 B has greater strength feats than Ribcage or V2 Susanoo, so if it tried to grab him, he'd power through its hand with Lariat. Not to mention Susanoo doesn't have the strength feats to crush something as durable and strong as V2 Killer B. So that isn't happening either.

 

[RedRobin]

Jugo and Suigestu should probably be added to tier 11.

 

[Rιver]

Sharingan was fooled in canon. So no, it won't track him down, and he can counter Totsuka the same way. So he seals a clone and not the real B.

No, it was not. Sasuke thought he monitored the entire scene with his Sharingan, but realized he didn't 1. Further can be proven, that his Sharingan was not active at the time he split

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-

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. By the time the tentacle had already sunken way down to the bottom of the water (to where he wouldn't look nor probably see properly), he activated again his Sharingan in order to put out the flames of Amaterasu

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, which after again he deactivated his Sharingan

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. Itachi can and will track him down if he splits.

You cannot escape Totsuka no Tsurugi. It seals everything and anything it pierces. After B has been pierced, he is automatically sealed in the gourd.​

That is the definition of Hyperbole. Don't know who told you that it has to be a contradicted statement to be a hyperbole, but that's false.

And this is the fallacy that you are using right now. Down to the letter.

Yata being stated to block ALL attacks is a hyperbolic statement, and you saying that since it has blocked every attack, thus it has no limits makes no sense, and is a fallacy. Blocking what it blocked in the manga doesn't mean its blocking 1, or 4 Bijuu Dama, ever. Manga and Databook stating that it blocks all attacks doesn't make it any less hyperbolic.

Nope. Madara knocked Naruto and the Rasengan away before it ever exploded, as you can see in the next page and since you can clearly see that no explosion occurred. So all it did was take the impact of Rasengan hitting it.

No one said it blocks. It repels

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. It won't tank, block, absorb nor negate it. It just repels while it's still in a form of ball. So the principle of the gunbai applies in this case.​

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, and his V1 Lariat was shown to do more or at the very least comparable damage, than Liger Bomb. V2 B is much stronger than Ay, so his Lariat is much stronger than Ay's attacks. V2 B would wreck a Ribcage Susanoo. Kisame had a large sword that could absorb chakra softening the blow for him and he still got his chest blown out by Lariat. A direct hit would have ended him right there.

V1 B has greater strength feats than Ribcage or V2 Susanoo, so if it tried to grab him, he'd power through its hand with Lariat. Not to mention Susanoo doesn't have the strength feats to crush something as durable and strong as V2 Killer B. So that isn't happening either.

Samehada didn't soften anything. He took on the entire attack, and until the next few panels you can see that his shroud is being absorbed in a rapid rate

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. Also, that was V1 E who is both slower and weaker than V2 E significantly. Force correlates with speed. V1 B and V2 E are equal in strength

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. Although I can agree with you that in this case B could land some damage to ribcage, V2 is something he wouldn't even get past of.

Also, Lariat can't be used if he's grabbed. Lariat requires speed as preparation. If he is stationary, how will he perform the technique? Exactly, he wouldn't.​

 

[KidGamer65]

No, it was not. Sasuke thought he monitored the entire scene with his Sharingan, but realized he didn't 1. Further can be proven, that his Sharingan was not active at the time he split

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-

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. By the time the tentacle had already sunken way down to the bottom of the water (to where he wouldn't look nor probably see properly), he activated again his Sharingan in order to put out the flames of Amaterasu

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, which after again he deactivated his Sharingan

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. Itachi can and will track him down if he splits.​

He activated his Sharingan to put out the black flame, yet never noticed any differences from the B they took all the way back to the hideout, and the real Killer B. Obito noticed nothing until they tried extracting it. So no, Itachi isn't going to know that its a clone that he just pierced until he's pierced it...

Then again it doesn't matter if Itachi knows its a clone, cause he can't stop B from doing it. As long as he pulls it off, he's safe.

You cannot escape Totsuka no Tsurugi. It seals everything and anything it pierces. After B has been pierced, he is automatically sealed in the gourd.

Never said he'd escape after being pierced. I said he'd feint it out by cutting his tentacle off and leaving his clone behind. Thus before getting pierced. Not after.

No one said it blocks. It repels

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. It won't tank, block, absorb nor negate it. It just repels while it's still in a form of ball. So the principle of the gunbai applies in this case.​

Lol, the wording doesn't change the fact that its a fallacy. It being able to repel all attacks is a fallacy. As for your Gunbai stuff:

In fact, even Madara's Gunbai absorbed and repelled Naruto's miniature bijūdama which has hardly any canon description and is obviously weaker. It's not hyperbole, it's a fact that it can repel any incoming attack in the manga since it has every time it has faced one.

The Gunbai being able to absorb and repel a Mini Bijuu Dama isn't any relevant argument to Yata repelling a full sized Bijuu Dama. Once again, nothing you have posted shows that its not a hyperbole, because it obviously is.

Samehada didn't soften anything. He took on the entire attack, and until the next few panels you can see that his shroud is being absorbed in a rapid rate

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. Also, that was V1 E who is both slower and weaker than V2 E significantly. Force correlates with speed. V1 B and V2 E are equal in strength

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. Although I can agree with you that in this case B could land some damage to ribcage, V2 is something he wouldn't even get past of.[/QUOTE]
Lol? What? Samehada is the one who took B's lariat head on, B never made contact with Kisame's body, not once, yet his chest was blown out. So yes, Samehada obviously softened the blow unless you have panels of B hitting Kisame directly.

Nope. That was V2 Ay. [

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] And force may correlate with speed, but they both ran at each other, and hit each other at the same time, so they were moving at the same speed in that instance, yet B overpowered him. Thus Base B is physically stronger than V2 Ay.

And no, Ay uses his speed and his Raiton Armor to give him more strength, while B doesn't need speed, thus it balances out. Not to mention if B holds back, they will be evenly matched. Nonetheless we have a panel directly comparing their physical strength, and B was superior.

Also, Lariat can't be used if he's grabbed. Lariat requires speed as preparation. If he is stationary, how will he perform the technique? Exactly, he wouldn't.

Except nobody said he wouldn't be moving. I stated that he would charge toward Susanoo with Lariat, and you said that he'd respond by trying to grab him, hence me saying "He powers through his arm" Lol.

 

[Crossroads]

I'm in love with this list, m8. I don't think I'd change a thing.. and it's nice to see Sasuke in his rightful place, too many people underrate him because of the Kaguya fight. It's highly possible that he 1) wasn't going all out, and 2) was just a bad match-up for Sasuke.

Not to mention the possibility that he strained his eyes trying to escape the desert dimension.

Anyway, very nice list.​

 

[Raykyryn]

Feats show that Naruto is far above Sasuke, that doesn't mean that they can't be in the same tier. Naruto's at the top of that tier and Sasuke is at the bottom.

Yet I fail to see how could Sasuke put even a high diff match against Naruto.

Cause Sasuke would beat either one, with ease.

What can he do against over-Juubi-sized Kamui spam?

Kakashi got a piece of Rikudo's Chakra and his Susanoo grew to a level where it would let him defeat Juubito. Being his sons, Indra and Asura got much more than just a piece, which is what powers their battle avatars (For Indra, Susanoo) so yeah, that's why they are up there.

MS Sasuke possessed Indra's chakra yet he failed to pull out a PS. And Rikudou's chakra =/= Indras or Ashuras. Let alone having a PS doesn't even mean that he would be stronger than edo Madara in any way lo'L.

Prime Hiruzen has no reason to be in the same tier as any Sannin, when Old Hiruzen was stated to be on par with Orochimaru, and that Prime Hiruzen was much stronger than his Old self.

Being on par with part 1 Orochimaru ? lo'L and? Not to mention that Oro got neg diffed by 3 tomoe Itachi and you placed Hiruzen in the same league as edo Itachi? And that "much stronger" means just hype ,nothing more. By hype Prime Hiruzen is stronger than Hashirama, lets put him to Hashi's tier then lo'L.

Except he blocked that attack, and the Blind Madara who blitzed him would go in Tier 7 since he has Hashirama's Mokuton and can absorb Ninjutsu and has V3 Susanoo, so no, Naruto isn't moving down.

Lo'L. SM enhanced Rikudou Madara had a relative hard time against 7th Gai. Yet he made a total joke of SM Naruto. genius. And only SM enhanced blind Madara showed v3 susanoo.

Jin Gaara has much more chakra than War Arc Gaara due to having a Bijuu, and his Sand was much stronger, and much faster than it is now. He can also manipulate a larger amount, faster than Non Jin Gaara can.

JGaara's sand was outspeeded by a bird. War arc Gaara's sand could keep up with Ay's speed. Not to mention war arc Gaara also has Sand Bunshin,Pyramid sealing jutsu and sand sensing and sand renden which are lacked by JGaara.