[VS] Muu, Hiruzen, Tobirama, Minato, Tsunade vs Hashirama

Ababeel

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Hashirama's pollen is useless either way, it will get destroyed by Mu's jinton who's equal to Onoki's jinton which fodderizes them in canon.
and Hiruzen can use his wind attack to send the pollen in a different direction, it's that simple. U_U
 

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Oh aye. It could work then. Still a bit sceptical though considering Muu's jutsu does a bit more than just becoming invisible.
 

Airbear

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Intel favors hashirama, which means wood clones(only madara could see through, maybe tobi) and means kages chances of landing Jinton on the real hashi reduces. Hashi wins doe
 

Unorthodox

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Hashirama's pollen is useless either way, it will get destroyed by Mu's jinton who's equal to Onoki's jinton which fodderizes them in canon.
and Hiruzen can use his wind attack to send the pollen in a different direction, it's that simple. U_U

jinton charge time is to slow wood spikes catches him first also onoki was able to do such a feat because he was in the epicenter of The wood forest witch muu wont be
 

KidGamer65

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I can't remember if Sage Mode sensing works by physical presence or chakra. If it's by chakra, Hashirama loses.

Its both. [ ] Madara was able to fight while blind and evade Sasuke's sword swings. There is no way mere chakra sensing allows that.

Tobirama or Minato mark Muu, who then goes invisible. He then makes his way to Hashirama, whether he be on a Mokuton construct or otherwise the ground. Tobirama/Minato then teleport to behind him and hit him with their respective attacks. Tobirama should know of Hashirama's incredible healing prowess, so they'll be aiming to cut him in half with Tobirama's suiton and cause massive brain damage with Minato's rasengan.
Mu being invisible doesn't matter. If he's invisible, the only attack method he has available to him is a sword. The moment he attacks Hashirama, the latter will be able to counter as he will know his position. If he tries to use Jinton, then he ends up revealing his position and dies worse.

You didn't even bother to to state how Tobirama and Minato get their Kunai to Hashirama so they can land their Hiraishin attack. Mokuton can intercept and knock away any Kunai that they throw toward him, and he can make a clone, for twice the power. So they are never going to get near him.

Or he can simply counter their attempt to get their tag near him with large scale Mokuton, which will push them and their tags back. Jukai Kotan or Flower Tree World works perfectly.

And in the case one of them manages to reach behind Hashirama, he can evade them or counter just like Madara did, since they are physical equals the buffs they get from the same Sage Mode, should be identical. Meaning Madara's physical feats are transferable to Hashirama.

Mokuton clones prolong the fight, but with a mark on Muu, Minato can literally use the S/T barrier to teleport anything Hashirama throws at them back at Hashirama. Assuming Muu is in the proper position of course.

S/T Barrier is for projectiles, nothing Hashirama uses is a projectile.
 

Ababeel

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jinton charge time is to slow wood spikes catches him first also onoki was able to do such a feat because he was in the epicenter of The wood forest witch muu wont be

Who said it's slow? Mu even stated that it's faster than Naruto's attack (without the chakra arm). Not to ,emotion it already worked in canon, so I don't know why are you denying it.

Who said the location has anything to do with that?
if the attack was in front of Mu he can use it directly against it, if he was surrounded he can do it the same way Onoki did...etc

and about the speed point, even though I don't know from where you came up with the jinton being slow but if Hashirama tried to attack mu, Minato can redirect his attacks to his face. Hashirama's jutsus are too slow compare to Minato's and Tobirama.
 

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I believe the Kages would win. Muu and Tsunade would be able to Jinton any FTW they see. Hiruzen would be a support, using his staff and huge elements to tear through mokuton. Minato and Tobirama would try to get the real body with each others FTG making sure they don't die. More or less. Unless the Shin Sūsenju comes into play. No one has the reserves to teleport that thing away without losing all their chakra.

When was he about to die with a kunai? further more why would hashirama need sm when fighting them and he will be on the ground they will have to come in the pollen if they want to touch him

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the pollen clealy shoots into the air also madara & hashirama are evenly matched in speed and CQC Madara counterd tobirama ftg twice
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his will also be counterd not to mention hashirama can mergeinto the ground

or just uses SS in turns all of them to ninja dust

Madara has reactions and speed on par with Hashirama. SM Madara >>>> Hashirama in reactions and speed. If that were base Madara, he would have died.

Second picture shows Madara fully extended with no way to defend. How did he counter? Limbo. Same way Sasuke almost died.
 

KidGamer65

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Madara has reactions and speed on par with Hashirama. SM Madara >>>> Hashirama in reactions and speed

SM Hashirama=SM Madara in reactions in speed since Base Madara and Base Hashirama are on par. Something you clearly left out in your post. So any Hiraishin back attacks aren't going through.
 

Europa

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Its both. [ ] Madara was able to fight while blind and evade Sasuke's sword swings. There is no way mere chakra sensing allows that.
Fair enough, my entire argument was based more on if it was by chakra sensing alone rather than physical means.

Mu being invisible doesn't matter. If he's invisible, the only attack method he has available to him is a sword. The moment he attacks Hashirama, the latter will be able to counter as he will know his position. If he tries to use Jinton, then he ends up revealing his position and dies worse.
He was acting as a mobile kunai, maybe I didn't post that as clearly as I could of. Both Tobirama and Minato would mark him and allow him to fly off while invisible and getting into any needed position.
You didn't even bother to to state how Tobirama and Minato get their Kunai to Hashirama so they can land their Hiraishin attack. Mokuton can intercept and knock away any Kunai that they throw toward him, and he can make a clone, for twice the power. So they are never going to get near him.
I guess I didn't make everything perfectly clear in my first post, then.
Or he can simply counter their attempt to get their tag near him with large scale Mokuton, which will push them and their tags back. Jukai Kotan or Flower Tree World works perfectly.

And in the case one of them manages to reach behind Hashirama, he can evade them or counter just like Madara did, since they are physical equals the buffs they get from the same Sage Mode, should be identical. Meaning Madara's physical feats are transferable to Hashirama.



S/T Barrier is for projectiles, nothing Hashirama uses is a projectile.

Flower Tree world would be an issue...If they didn't have Hiruzen who, coupled with Tsunade, is able to comfortably make five clones and barrage them with elemental attacks to fend it off. The effects of FTW aren't instant as seen in the manga, and if Tsunade of all people has knowledge on it when she was but a child when Hashirama was around I can see Hiruzen and the others knowing of this technique, doesn't matter as even if they don't Tsunade can inform them of it quickly enough to counter the technique.

The physical sensing does make the fight go into Hashirama's favor, which makes arguing that either Minato and Tobirama will get any solid hits in null. But, for the S/T barrier...Where does it say it's for projectiles alone? To my knowledge it works in a semi-familiar way to those guns in that Portal Game. I don't see why, if any Mokuton construct were to let's say strike at the team and Minato had a barrier set up, it wouldn't fall in or have part of it be teleported off if caught in the S/T Barrier [ ].

But yeah, Hashirama would win in the end. Some things I didn't take into consideration.
 

Bogard

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Madara has reactions and speed on par with Hashirama. SM Madara >>>> Hashirama in reactions and speed. If that were base Madara, he would have died.
Yes but Hashirama has SM. Base Madara = Base Hashirama in reactions and speed, and SM gives them a similar boost, so in SM, he should actually be capable to react

S/T Barrier is for projectiles, nothing Hashirama uses is a projectile.
Jubi's Bijudama was blocked by Hachibi when it was ported by Minato's S/T barrier, so no it's not for projectiles and it would not even make sense otherwise
 
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BlacLord™

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Let's all be slightly trollish and just say that Tobirama teleports a Jinton preparing Muu behind Hashirama.
 

Bogard

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Let's all be slightly trollish and just say that Tobirama teleports a Jinton preparing Muu behind Hashirama.
That's actually a good point. Most likely Tobirama marked Hashirama at least once during his life :heh:
 

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I thought SM wasn't allowed due to Gates and summoning jutsu. The gates and summoning is basically SM Hashirama's upgrade from base. But ye, SM Hashirama has similar reactions to SM Madara.

If he has SM, I don't see Hashirama losing. If it is base Hashirama, then he should lose.
 

Bogard

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I thought SM wasn't allowed due to Gates and summoning jutsu. The gates and summoning is basically SM Hashirama's upgrade from base. But ye, SM Hashirama has similar reactions to SM Madara.

If he has SM, I don't see Hashirama losing. If it is base Hashirama, then he should lose.
But what if Minato uses SM as well during his hiraishin attack? Considering base Minato is faster, SM should give him the sufficient boost to outspeed that of Hashirama's as well :heh:
 

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I really have no idea why people are giving Hashirama SM feats of Madara. Hashirama is a long-range fight. His Mokuton techniques are mostly based on long-range, and long-range fighters are weak Taijutsu. He has medical healing as well. Why do you think he has medical healing? It's for in case being in close range, he would heal himself if he took damage. Last but not least, he was much beating worse than Madara at their final stand [ ]. Half of his armour is taken off, he has bruises all over his face, and he has burns. Not to mention, the fact his clone was taken out by Madara until he took him out by surprise.

It's been shown and portrayed that Sage mode equals Sharingan in Taijutsu. Hashirama would not have been that badly hurt. So clearly, he doesn't have Madara's reaction feats even with SM.​
 

Penguin

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But what if Minato uses SM as well during his hiraishin attack? Considering base Minato is faster, SM should give him the sufficient boost to outspeed that of Hashirama's as well :heh:

I doubt Minato would use SM in this fight. Plus I don't know. I don't know what Minato's SM is capable of, how much faster it makes him, etc. All of it is speculation.
 

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I thought SM wasn't allowed due to Gates and summoning jutsu. The gates and summoning is basically SM Hashirama's upgrade from base. But ye, SM Hashirama has similar reactions to SM Madara.

If he has SM, I don't see Hashirama losing. If it is base Hashirama, then he should lose.

SM Madara is inferred to be somewhat faster than Hashirama.

Madara noted that in life, Tobirama was known to be the fastest shinobi around, putting him above Hashirama in that aspect. Yet in his confrontation against SM Madara, he wasn't quite able to land a blow on him - this tells us that he was faster than Tobirama and consequently, Hashirama.

Sensing isn't a great factor in this match, as Tobirama managed to get behind Juubito twice, who was an acute enough sensor to pick up on Sasuke building up chakra in his eye.
 

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Who said it's slow? Mu even stated that it's faster than Naruto's attack (without the chakra arm). Not to ,emotion it already worked in canon, so I don't know why are you denying it.

it worked from the ground not above because from the ground onoki could clear it succsessfully because he was in the center so using jinton in a circle clears it

jinton is to slow naruto jumped of gaara's sand with a chakra arm then extended into muu and his jinton didnt even shoot off thats was against one opponent wood bushin throwing wood spikes at him from every direction jinton isnt happening here dont even bring it up.

Who said the location has anything to do with that?
if the attack was in front of Mu he can use it directly against it, if he was surrounded he can do it the same way Onoki did...etc

last time saying this onoki was in the center of the wood forest so moving in a circular motion would clear it and the only reason onoki got in the center of it because he was put to sleep but he woke up you your not in the center of the wood forest you cant do that feet muu isnt even going to be ground level so just throw that hole argument out of the window.

and about the speed point, even though I don't know from where you came up with the jinton being slow but if Hashirama tried to attack mu, Minato can redirect his attacks to his face. Hashirama's jutsus are too slow compare to Minato's and Tobirama.

Minato will have his own clones to take care of also redirecting into hashi's face? that would mean minato has a seal near or on hashirama's face witch he will not. Hashirama's jutsu arnt slow compared to them its the other way around ftg is instant but they're movements are not once they go to attack the are counterd.

I believe the Kages would win. Muu and Tsunade would be able to Jinton any FTW they see. Hiruzen would be a support, using his staff and huge elements to tear through mokuton. Minato and Tobirama would try to get the real body with each others FTG making sure they don't die. More or less. Unless the Shin Sūsenju comes into play. No one has the reserves to teleport that thing away without losing all their chakra.

Muu & tsunade are defeated with the wood forest read above about Muu. Tsunade is a non factor she is to slow wood spikes to the face would end her career hiruzen cannot destroy the wood forest nor can he even take a bushin as i shown before when juubito vaporized half of Hashirama's bushin body it was still able to fight he will need to eraticate it witch he cannot do once it uses infinite darkness it blinds Hiruzen then comes in for the kill or it merges with the ground and attack him from under either way hiruzen is fodderized in this situation.

Minato & Tobirama are nothing here as well and teleporting they're partners will only cost them chakra because they cannot get out of danger in this situation as i explained above minato lacks offense to destroy the bushin all of they're kunais are pushed underground or into a mokuton root tobirama would secome to infinite darkness with the combination of wood spikes and with his version of mayfly also wood dragons absorb minato has confirmed that his or the hiraishin user chakra needs to be connected to something with the chakra is absorbed from the seal you cannot teleport someone utimately making even they're ftg useless do you honestly think hashirama would need ss him using mokujin turns all of them to paste.



Madara has reactions and speed on par with Hashirama. SM Madara >>>> Hashirama in reactions and speed. If that were base Madara, he would have died.

Second picture shows Madara fully extended with no way to defend. How did he counter? Limbo. Same way Sasuke almost died.

Madara & Hashirama has always been equal in CQC in base







Madara used Limbo loving the fanfic you got that from Minator? terrible he didnt even used limbo on sasuke limbo takes on the physical characteristics as the person using it sasuke was clearly held in mid air how could limbo do that without flight or levitation? and sasuke stating he couldnt move if limbo was holding him he would have atleast tugged of wiggled when he could not what he used was the same tech he used to keep gai in place
 
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KingHashirama

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Yet he would have died by a kunai in this manga, lol. If Minato cuts his head off, he will die, because every cells of the body will stop working, disabling any healing abilities. If he pierces through his heart, he will die as well.

He can't put them to sleep if they are flying either. They can know the original and clones because Hashirama can't make SM clones, so it's easy to notice who is the real and the original. Besides they have 3 sensors in the team here
no the heart can regenerate. The regeneration is based on chakra. The chakra doesn't go away simply because they got stabbed in the heart. Hence why its called regeneration.

SM Madara is inferred to be somewhat faster than Hashirama.

Madara noted that in life, Tobirama was known to be the fastest shinobi around, putting him above Hashirama in that aspect. Yet in his confrontation against SM Madara, he wasn't quite able to land a blow on him - this tells us that he was faster than Tobirama and consequently, Hashirama.

Sensing isn't a great factor in this match, as Tobirama managed to get behind Juubito twice, who was an acute enough sensor to pick up on Sasuke building up chakra in his eye.
Just like EMS Madara is supposed to be faster than Hashirama.. yet only tied with a base Hashirama? loll.

And your logic here is wrong. The fact that Tobirama was the fastest man , had edo tensei, created shadow clone jutsu.. and still wasn't near Hashirama's level.. tells us that FTG ain't that big to Hashirama. You must realize FTG is not a new jutsu to Hashirama. In a 1 vs 1 Minato and Tobirama both have the same FTG. In fact Tobirama can use it better in a combat..since he has more experience. However, he was still inferior to Hashirama..

I really have no idea why people are giving Hashirama SM feats of Madara. Hashirama is a long-range fight. His Mokuton techniques are mostly based on long-range, and long-range fighters are weak Taijutsu. He has medical healing as well. Why do you think he has medical healing? It's for in case being in close range, he would heal himself if he took damage. Last but not least, he was much beating worse than Madara at their final stand [ ]. Half of his armour is taken off, he has bruises all over his face, and he has burns. Not to mention, the fact his clone was taken out by Madara until he took him out by surprise.

It's been shown and portrayed that Sage mode equals Sharingan in Taijutsu. Hashirama would not have been that badly hurt. So clearly, he doesn't have Madara's reaction feats even with SM.​
@Bold and Underline. He is in fact one of the best taijutsu people in the manga.. In their final stand, we actually don't know what happened. From the whole fight overall, it seemed like Hashirama was trying to not kill Madara.. The reason people give SM Madara's feats to Hashirama .. is because Hashirama is always superior with the things he had.. Did you already forget he was taking on a Rinnegan/EMS/Mokuton Madara even after Hashirama's SM went out.. ?

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Unorthodox

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I thought SM wasn't allowed due to Gates and summoning jutsu. The gates and summoning is basically SM Hashirama's upgrade from base. But ye, SM Hashirama has similar reactions to SM Madara.

If he has SM, I don't see Hashirama losing. If it is base Hashirama, then he should lose.

Base hashirama still wins Mokujin is to much.

and as far as warping something just stop warping something like mokujin would not only drain would be ultimately useless because they have no ftg's in a further location besides the battlefield
 
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