Muki Tensei is fast enough that Sasuke didn't notice in time to activate his own Susanoo. Itachi, being faster, did and protected his younger brother.
By protecting his younger brother with Susanoo, he was too slow to do anything for himself. This is Kabuto's obervation.
Now if the actual act of protecting with Susanoo is what caused the problem. Protecting someone in general doesn't physically reduce one's speed. Minato protected Naruto from Obito's kunai, displaying great speed, not being slowed. Naruto protected Kakashi from Obito's shuriken a few chaps ago, displaying speed. Protecting an individual is usually a credit to one's speed. However Kabuto said using Susanoo to protect Sasuke made ITACHI HIMSELF slower. Meaning the use of Susanoo limits movement. This also agrees with the fact that we've never seen anybody run with Susanoo activated. Madara who was slicing and dicing the entire fourth division remained in one place when he started using his Susanoo. Sasuke remained in one place throughout his entire fight with Danzo. It really does fit that Susanoo limits mobility.
Reacting and putting his susanno over on sasuke's side to protect him, cause Itachi to be unable to do anything to protect himself...I don't think Kabuto meant itachi's speed itself, since itachi really never moved..Sasuke and Madara have shown they can jump freely from susanno etc without any signs of "limited mobility"
Him not seeing Obito's Sharingan when standing at point blank range and also considering the little lesson Jiraiya taught Naruto on focus where he explained that if you place a dot on a surface, your attention goes immediately to the dot, Obito's eye hole is basically to dot that draws your attention in his mask, Minato should have seen the dojutsu yet the Fourth had no recollection of seeing ANYTHING in the eye hole the VERY next chapter means he most likely WAS INTENTIONALLY avoiding Obito's gaze so he knows not to make eye contact.
Also, he knew about the how Uchiha Madara could only control the Nine Tails for a limited amount of time so he know quite a bit about Uchiha and their Sharingan. Also, he fought side by side with many ninjas in the Uchiha clan, so clearly he must have had to work with the Sharingan and seen its powerful genjutsu effects. Since he'll be avoiding eye contact, he will also be avoiding Tsukuyomi.
As for Itachi's non eye contact genjutsu, they are painfully obvious and most likely easily breakable and only two have been shown.
The first one was the one he used against Naruto which required him to form a single hand seals for a while to prep the genjutsu then he pointed his finger at Naruto and Naruto looked at the finger and got caught. The genjutsu was obviously not even meant to fool Naruto but to forcibly subdue him since it was painfully obvious that it wasn't real as it started with every member of Naruto's team collapsing and turning to Itachi. Talk about not subtle. The databook explicitly states that to counter non eye contact genjutsu, the genjutsu release(kai) is used. Now as to whether Minato know how to do that, I can only assume that he does since he trained under Jiraiya who first explained this method to us. Also, it would be safe to assume that a ninja called a once-in-a-generation genius would be able to perform it better than Naruto, who has a 2/5 in genjutsu.
The second one his crow clone used against Naruto, again, painfully obvious since the genjutsu started with crows flying out of Itachi's cloak. Minato would break it. Now the question is if he can break it in time. Well, Kurenai could. Minato has speed with his hands since he could counter weapon attacks from 18 hidden Shadow clones that were coming at kid Kakashi. He did this using only shuriken and also, since he was known for his speed, why would his hands be slow?
Now Amaterasu, the flames don't appear on the opponent outta nowhere, they move linearly. Proof, Raikage dodged it and it moved LINEARLY to the Samurai behind him. Raikage did this at point blank range meaning he waited for the flames to come really close then shifted completely out of its way showing that his speed his greater than that of Amaterasu. Minato has dodged Raikage so he can dodge Amaterasu. You might ask how he can dodge Amaterasu if he's not looking at Itachi's eyes. Well, when the flames are fired they will move towards him and come close to him, they will be completely in his face and he'll see them when they're just about to touch him. Its like saying that if I wasn't looking at your hands and you threw a bottle at me, that I won't see it coming. When its right up in my face just as its about to hit me, I'll see it.
Susanoo limits Itachi's movement which is what stopped him from dodging Kabuto's Inorganic Reincarnation which impaled him with many spikes(and he was just using partial Susanoo and this was observed by Kabuto who has never seen/fought Susanoo before so there's no doubt that Minato can deduce this on his own). This means using Susanoo in any form makes him unable to move freely. Remember that the only requirement for Minato to seal the Kyubi was for Kushina to hold it still with chains. Itachi is basically restricting himself so Minato needs only summon the sealing throne and summon a small toad on it then perform the seal, sealing Itachi with Susanoo and all. Minato getting the chance to do this is no problem. The throne summoning requires no seals and neither does the summoning of toad(since he merely smeared his blood on his hand and pointed it at thin air to summon Gerotora in order to give the toad the key to Naruto's seal) and the sealing itself has no seals as the databook didn't mention any(First Databook) and none were shown when Minato sealed Kurama inside Naruto. So its basically tap your hand on the ground to make the throne appear instantly then tap your hand on the throne to make a toad appear instantly and activate the seal(possibly with NO hand seals) and Itachi if clad in Susanoo being too slow to physically stop him and Minato can have Bunta bombard attack Itachi with continously water bullets to keep him busy while Minato does all this. Any attack Itachi attempts will simply clash with the water bullets instead of going to Minato or Bunta. Also, the seal has range since Minato intended to seal the beast from such at distance that the fox had to stretch the full length of his arm to reach where baby Naruto was placed[/B] and we both know Kurama has a reall long arm. So Minato can accomplish this from a good distance away.
To defeat Susanoo, much effore might not be required. It is a large beast but can be evaded as shown by SM Kabuto and we both know FTG is faster than SM Kabuto. Bogard has already explained the range factor that will allow Minato teleport into Susanoo and Itachi, restricted by the walls of his own defense will be at close range and we both know Minato favors teleporting behind an opponent(from where no genjutsu can be cast) and that would be the end of it all. Also, remember that the larger forms of Susanoo won't allow for Amaterasu to be shot since the bone, skin and armor will get in the way and the smaller ones have openings in the ribs which a kunai can just fly through and lead to Itachi's total loss.
Minato can clash his A Rank Rasengan with Itachi's fireball tech, Naruto showed this against Sasuke's fireball when they fought on the hospital roof in part 1. It can also be assumed that Minato can clash Rasengan with any of Itachi's jutsu(water dragon, waterfall, Itachi's face )
Also, Minato, after teleporting Kurama out of Konoha said, 'I've got to put up a barrier' meaning he had barrier techniques in his arsenal that could restrain Kurama long enough for him to seal the fox with both the Reaper Death Seal and the Eight Trigrams Seal. He didn't get to show it since Kushina performed hers instead.
Minato also knows of Pa and Ma and they know him and while it can't be proved that he can summon them, it is possible that he summons a small toad, marks it with FTG, dispels the toad then teleported to the toad which will be iin Myoboku, take Ma and Pa and teleport back(kind of a cheat to the whole long process of summoning them.)
Alot of people never saw tobi's sharingan though they were ridiculously close to him.. his mask is designed for that person..designed so his eyes aren't out in the open for the world to see
We've argued about this already, but once again, there is nothing in the manga, no statement, nothing that suggests what powerlevel dusk crow genjutsu was.. It's an assumption that it's on the same level as the finger genjutsu.. As for susanno, As I already said, it wont be too much of a factor in this fight, Itachi will bring it out when needed, maybe if he summons toads etc etc..
The second one his crow clone used against Naruto, again, painfully obvious since the genjutsu started with crows flying out of Itachi's cloak. Minato would break it. Now the question is if he can break it in time. Well, Kurenai could. Minato has speed with his hands since he could counter weapon attacks from 18 hidden Shadow clones that were coming at kid Kakashi. He did this using only shuriken and also, since he was known for his speed, why would his hands be slow?
We debated this, the genjtusu never started with clones, as we see where naruto is when it ends, and he's in the same spot as he was when he was on the ground...
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We know the genjutsu didn't start with the crows since in the genjutsu naruto charged at Itachi FIRST , then the crows came out and Itachi said "you're already in my genjutsu" ,Now relook at the positioning, the charge never happened.. meaning Naruto was in it prior to the charge..
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, at the exact same tree, exact spot... meaning the genjutsu has nothing to do with the crows.. Itachi was just showing him he was in the genjutsu
Now Amaterasu, the flames don't appear on the opponent outta nowhere, they move linearly. Proof, Raikage dodged it and it moved LINEARLY to the Samurai behind him. Raikage did this at point blank range meaning he waited for the flames to come really close then shifted completely out of its way showing that his speed his greater than that of Amaterasu. Minato has dodged Raikage so he can dodge Amaterasu. You might ask how he can dodge Amaterasu if he's not looking at Itachi's eyes. Well, when the flames are fired they will move towards him and come close to him, they will be completely in his face and he'll see them when they're just about to touch him. Its like saying that if I wasn't looking at your hands and you threw a bottle at me, that I won't see it coming. When its right up in my face just as its about to hit me, I'll see it.
The scenario you bring up is pretty funny...
think of amaterasu as a bullet...
You have no idea I am bringing a gun to the fight(amaterasu) (manga knowledge) , You're not looking at the gun or my hand, you're looking straight at my face and you can't see the gun
What are you saying? you'll somehow know to dodge it? Amaterasu starts small and gets bigger as it reaches it target and it does that at an amazing speed.. not only does minato not know itachi has the jutsu, but he isn't looking to see when it's triggered , or knows anything about how it's triggered... take the example with the gun for example...
With theses conditions it's litterally impossible to dodge such a thing... amaterasu isn't nearly "in your face' as you make it seem, Itachi can easily aim to minato's forehead and he will not be able to see it coming
Like i've said, contrary to the popular belief, i believe dusk crow genjutsu does require eye contact, but the eye contact is with the crow's eye instead of Itachi's eye.
As we both know, I disagree with your statement , Those crows weren't real, if they were, at least one black feather would have been left on the ground, we see feathers happen when he actually uses real clones (crow clones) etc
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Creating reality with genjutsu is not that a great feat. Even Kakashi's D-rank Demonic illusion could create reality in Sakura's mind, albeit showing her fear she hide deep in her heart. Isumo and Kotetsu were also able to create perfect reality, albeit changing the number of the classroom where genins should have registered their name. Madara can also create perfect reality with his genjutsu, but even A was still able to notice he was in a genjutsu. Creating reality is not the real problem. The real problem is the capacity of noticing your inside the genjutsu in question and break it in time. I'm pretty sure that someone as observant and analytic like Minato could directly notice such things if he is smh caught in, but i must admit that there is no proof that he could break it, but the fact that Danzo was able to break Sasuke's tsukuyomi makes me believe it's greatly possible for high level opponents. Even Orochimaru tried to break the genjutsu like you've demonstrated it to me a time, but Itachi intervened quickly. So the question now would be to know if he can liberate himself in time
What are you talking about? I don't recall madara ever simulating reality against A..
Simulating reality isn't a problem? tell that to Deidara...It's not even about being analytical... you have to be able to see through the genjutsu....something that you apparently become better able to do with hard training..which is what deidara did.. and what sasuke said he did....
Danzo has sharingan..sharingan as a tool helps you see through the sharingan...Not only that, but Itachi popping out of nowhere etc, it was all an obvious genjtusu.... But danzo WAS IN the genjutsu and he didn't know, it was only when it started becoming obvious .. that he broke it.. which is why sasuke got all the way up to behind him... You bring this point up and it's a perfect point to show that it would be over for Minato if he's caught in a genjutsu.. Danzo first had to realize he was in it... so will Minato
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And it was only then that danzo realized it was a genjutsu... sasuke was moments away from killing danzo had he not broken it, how? some say the cursed seal activated, who knows.. doesn't matter... point is, Simualting reality DOES matter....A ninja on danzo's level was fooled TWICE.... being analytical doesn't cut it..
The same thing happened to Killer bee as well.. he was fighting in genjtusu realm COMPLETELY oblivious to the fact he was in a genjutsu.. it was so real to him....
you have to train your eyes to see past it.. The user messes with what you see, hear, feel...using genjutsu requires high intelligence.. and Itachi is no normal genjtusu user..
Sometimes, knowledge of not looking into somebody's eyes is not enough. Even if Minato possesses this knowledge, which he probably does; it means nothing. Orochimaru knew about the Uchiha's prowess in Genjutsu yet he foolishly looked into Itachi's celestial eyes. The Fourth Raikage knew about Madara's Genjutsu, hell, Ōnoki told him to avoid eye contact, yet, Madara was still able to make eye contact with him. What's more, is Itachi can induce Genjutsu without direct eye-contact; finger Genjutsu, and I think via his crows. Thus, Itachi holds another advantage, fighting without looking directly in the eyes is difficult, and has been done only by a few - Gai and some others.
I agree that Minato is capable of dodging Totsuka - no arguments here. But if Itachi traps Minato in a Genjutsu at the beginning, keeping in mind that some of Itachi's Genjutsu can replicate reality perfectly, to the extent that Naruto or people like Kirābī could not tell they were in the Genjutsu for long, shows that if Itachi traps Minato in Genjutsu, he can easily Shunshin to Minato and finish him off. He could even seal him with the Totsuka in practically an instant, if required.
In regards to your comments about Minato figuring out if Itachi is an Uchiha - he most certainly will. Itachi wields a Sharingan, thus, Minato will know. But I'm sure that Minato has absolutely no knowledge of the Mangekyō Sharingan, therein lies another advantage leaning humbly towards Itachi.
Minato can't defeat incomplete susanoo
Minato can't gen close to itachi because he can use amaterasu as a defense
and most of all minato doesn't have counter for sharingan genjutsu. End xD
itachi cant use amaterasu as a defense cause he doesnt have suffiecent control over it, minato is incredibly intelligent and fast so getting close to itachi would be no problem. he would also know alot about the uchiha clan and its abilities due to the fact he was the hokage, he is fast and smart enough not to get caught in either amaterasu or itachis genjutsu as he can easily dodge them or simply not look in the first place, and even should he get caught in a genjutsu breaking out wouldnt be that hard as he has been stated to have excellent chakra control.
in the unlikely event that in his large arsenal of jutsu minato doesnt have one fitted to breaking through susanoo he could/would just wait until itachi ran out of chakra and then attack (itachi isnt exactly fast while using susanoo.
anyway non of this would even happen in the first place as all minato would have to do would be shower the area with ftg kunai and use a mixture of his massive base speed and ftg to confuse amd destroy itachi.
Minato had a contract with the toads? so that would basically mean he can summon any toad he wants no?
its common sense really... He summoned Gamabunta already we saw that , also Gematorra when he was fighting Kyuubi to store in the key(this is prove he can summon any toad he would like too)
U telling me he has a personal contract for any damn frog? that would be utter bs
also if im correct one of databooks says that if u have signed a contract , u can summon ANY animal of that sort
U know where am getting at? ...
Minato had a contract with the toads? so that would basically mean he can summon any toad he wants no?
its common sense really... He summoned Gamabunta already we saw that , also Gematorra when he was fighting Kyuubi to store in the key(this is prove he can summon any toad he would like too)
U telling me he has a personal contract for any damn frog? that would be utter bs
also if im correct one of databooks says that if u have signed a contract , u can summon ANY animal of that sort
U know where am getting at? ...
What do you mean? Itachi sliced oro's snakes with easy, what can gamabunta do to him? He even showed what he can beat them with single kunai, so summons isn't a problem for itachi xD
I browsed the first page, and I'd just like to address the first mistake I read: Minato doesn't have superior reflexes to A. The raiton cloak amps his reflexes to superhuman levels. However, Hiraishin allows instantaneous movement, making reflexes less important. It would be like me entering a boxing ring against Tyson, but being able to instantly appear behind him and then instantly disappear. I'd just beat the shit out of him with cheap shots even though he'd rape my white ass in a traditional fight.
Incidentally, Minato isn't as well suited as A for dodging Amaterasu. His best bet would be to stay out of range, but he doesn't have any known ranged techniques. In fact, in terms of feats, he's sorely outmatched by Itachi even though in terms of portrayal, Minato is either equal to Itachi or marginally stronger. They're both top tier in skill and intelligence, but Minato only has one known awesome, top tier technique, and Itachi has five, plus legendary items. The logical conclusion is self-evident.
Alot of people never saw tobi's sharingan though they were ridiculously close to him.. his mask is designed for that person..designed so his eyes aren't out in the open for the world to see
We've argued about this already, but once again, there is nothing in the manga, no statement, nothing that suggests what powerlevel dusk crow genjutsu was.. It's an assumption that it's on the same level as the finger genjutsu.. As for susanno, As I already said, it wont be too much of a factor in this fight, Itachi will bring it out when needed, maybe if he summons toads etc etc..
We debated this, the genjtusu never started with clones, as we see where naruto is when it ends, and he's in the same spot as he was when he was on the ground...
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We know the genjutsu didn't start with the crows since in the genjutsu naruto charged at Itachi FIRST , then the crows came out and Itachi said "you're already in my genjutsu" ,Now relook at the positioning, the charge never happened.. meaning Naruto was in it prior to the charge..
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, at the exact same tree, exact spot... meaning the genjutsu has nothing to do with the crows.. Itachi was just showing him he was in the genjutsu
The scenario you bring up is pretty funny...
think of amaterasu as a bullet...
You have no idea I am bringing a gun to the fight(amaterasu) (manga knowledge) , You're not looking at the gun or my hand, you're looking straight at my face and you can't see the gun
What are you saying? you'll somehow know to dodge it? Amaterasu starts small and gets bigger as it reaches it target and it does that at an amazing speed.. not only does minato not know itachi has the jutsu, but he isn't looking to see when it's triggered , or knows anything about how it's triggered... take the example with the gun for example...
With theses conditions it's litterally impossible to dodge such a thing... amaterasu isn't nearly "in your face' as you make it seem, Itachi can easily aim to minato's forehead and he will not be able to see it coming
As we both know, I disagree with your statement , Those crows weren't real, if they were, at least one black feather would have been left on the ground, we see feathers happen when he actually uses real clones (crow clones) etc
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Creating reality with genjutsu is not that a great feat. Even Kakashi's D-rank Demonic illusion could create reality in Sakura's mind, albeit showing her fear she hide deep in her heart. Isumo and Kotetsu were also able to create perfect reality, albeit changing the number of the classroom where genins should have registered their name. Madara can also create perfect reality with his genjutsu, but even A was still able to notice he was in a genjutsu. Creating reality is not the real problem. The real problem is the capacity of noticing your inside the genjutsu in question and break it in time. I'm pretty sure that someone as observant and analytic like Minato could directly notice such things if he is smh caught in, but i must admit that there is no proof that he could break it, but the fact that Danzo was able to break Sasuke's tsukuyomi makes me believe it's greatly possible for high level opponents. Even Orochimaru tried to break the genjutsu like you've demonstrated it to me a time, but Itachi intervened quickly. So the question now would be to know if he can liberate himself in time
What are you talking about? I don't recall madara ever simulating reality against A..
Simulating reality isn't a problem? tell that to Deidara...It's not even about being analytical... you have to be able to see through the genjutsu....something that you apparently become better able to do with hard training..which is what deidara did.. and what sasuke said he did....
Danzo has sharingan..sharingan as a tool helps you see through the sharingan...Not only that, but Itachi popping out of nowhere etc, it was all an obvious genjtusu.... But danzo WAS IN the genjutsu and he didn't know, it was only when it started becoming obvious .. that he broke it.. which is why sasuke got all the way up to behind him... You bring this point up and it's a perfect point to show that it would be over for Minato if he's caught in a genjutsu.. Danzo first had to realize he was in it... so will Minato
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And it was only then that danzo realized it was a genjutsu... sasuke was moments away from killing danzo had he not broken it, how? some say the cursed seal activated, who knows.. doesn't matter... point is, Simualting reality DOES matter....A ninja on danzo's level was fooled TWICE.... being analytical doesn't cut it..
The same thing happened to Killer bee as well.. he was fighting in genjtusu realm COMPLETELY oblivious to the fact he was in a genjutsu.. it was so real to him....
you have to train your eyes to see past it.. The user messes with what you see, hear, feel...using genjutsu requires high intelligence.. and Itachi is no normal genjtusu user..
You assume too much. You believe evry genjutsu is able to perfectly simulate reality at will. Its not all like Sharingan genjutsu where you can pretty much do whatever you want, in other genjutsu the principles are pretty much set and this is validated by the databook. When Kureani performs her genjutsu, she vanishes from sight, trees appear and restrict her enemies and she kills them. That simple. When Tayuya plays her flute, you appear in a fake world and you are restricted by strings and begin to melt. InHashirama's Bringer of Darkness, everything turns dark. In the 2nd Mizukage's clam genjutsu, you see fakes of him and the clam. That is all. Why exactly should Itachi's non Sharingan genjutsu be different from every non Sharingan genjutsu in existence? Aren't we being a bit ridiculous here?
Also, if his non eye contact genjutsu were all that impressive then why would he not use it against Kabuto. Why waste time, energy on Izanami? Because Itachi, in his amazing deductive skills, estimated that it would not work. Now, unto another one of your claims that the crows weren't the beginning of the genjutsu, I'd ask you to go and review that manga again instead of posting a cut-out page that doesn't give the full picture. Naruto emerged from behind the tree and saw Itachi. He attacked with clones and Itachi killed them then he ran at Itachi. It is clear AFTER the genjutsu that Naruto is now a bit closer than when he first saw Itachi. Why? Because he RAN at the Uchiha.(Sorry, can't post links) meaning he only froze when Itach opened his cloak meaning he had his complete freedom before then. If Naruto was already in a genjutsu, wouldn't his shadow clone attempted attack have been a good chance to show that it was all not real? Why did Itachi bother to kill clones that are supposedly products of genjutsu? Also kinda suspicious that you posted a cut out manga page xd. Trying to trick me? Lol.
Now about the whole eye in the mask thing, how exactly did Kakashi see it then from a GREAT distance away from Obito? Ever consider the reason for the whole not seeing Obito's eye is because he is ACTUALLY capable of deactivating his Sharingan? Its not like Kakashi's that has to always stay on. But against Minato, he most definitely had the Mangekyo activated since he hoped to let Minato's kunai slip through him then warp him into his eye. I see you ignored the whole focus on a spot thing which is like a law of life. I think its more far fetched to assume that a wooden mask has the ability to hide Obito's eye than the fact that a Konoha Hokage knows the dangers of eye contact with a Sharinga user and thius avoided it. Also, if Obito's eye can't be seen then that means light isn't reaching his eye as a result of the mask which can then enter the eyes of others allowing them to see it. This will also mean Obito would be UNABLE to see since light isn't reaching his eye(look up the process of sight). Supporting this fact is Kabuto hiding his eye to prevent genjutsu but also blinding himself in the process.
Now Amaterasu is not like a bullet. Its not tiny, it gets progressive larger and has always been manifested as big enough to cover a major part of any shinobi's torso. Its BIG and NOTICEABLE which is why I used a bottle and not a dart as an example. To insinuate otherwise is a major folly on your part. The tiny one Sasuke shot on a Samurai engulfed the dude's entire armor! Now there's a reason which the eye has an ENTIRE field of vision. This means it can see many thing at once like you seated at the compluter can seeer, the table its on, anything around the monitot and all that. If a sudden anomaly like a ball of black fire coming at you will certainly get your attention and Minato can see Amaterasu coming since he has super reflexes that allowed him see Raikage(a man faster than Amaterasu). So mMinato can see Amaterasu coming from anywhere in front of him because of his field of vision and his reflexes.
It's tough to debate this because Minato literally has 1-3 chapters of solid feats, most of which were against someone where he wouldn't really use any Ninjutsu or such because it'd be impractical. So if I argue for Minato, I'll probably make a couple assumptions.
With that aside, based solely off of hype, I give it to Minato more times than not. Based on feats/some assumptions, I'd give it to Minato still, with a tough fight though. I'd assume that Minato wouldn't look into Itachi's eyes with basic knowledge on the Sharingan, and on top of that he should be able to break out of all of Itachi's Genjutsu other than Tsukuyomi (breaking out of regular Genjutsu is basic knowledge, and Minato was a genius among geniuses). Amaterasu shouldn't be too much of an issue either, because it's usage drains Itachi, and Minato, who was able to react to V2 A (who dodged Amaterasu), can FTG away if necessary. You can argue that he doesn't have knowledge on it, but in all of his fights FTG'ing away has always been his first defense, and I'm sure that seeing Itachi's eyes bleed will trigger such a reaction. Susanoo can be halted/slowed down by Food Cart Destroyer, or Minato can teleport inside it via FTG. We know that he can travel in a specific area around the tags/kunai, so any FTG seal placed closed enough to Susanoo (which isn't mobile) can let him breach it and engage Itachi in CQC, or force him to deactivate it. And in either situation, Gamabunta and possibly other toads can aid him in overpowering/overwhelming Itachi.
They both have counters for each other. Most people would say, "but Minato can blitz Itachi". No, Itachi proved to be on par, if not better than Bee in terms of reaction and reflexes. Bee, who was able to react and block Minato's hit. He could find a blind spot in the Rinnegan, the kekkei genkai known to have no blind spots, and blinded all of Rinnegan eyes. So that alone must prove Itachi capable to fight on par with Minato.
But Minato is not just about blitzing. He has summons wich are not an instant win but help alot. He can tag Itachi with one touch and make it easier for himself to land a hit, a Rasengan for instance. But being close makes him vulnerable to an exploding bunshin or genjutsu
Overall its about luck and who land the first hit.
So you're argument is he's watching Itachi's eyes? two close range fighters, that just spells out instant tsukyomi death
You assume too much. You believe evry genjutsu is able to perfectly simulate reality at will. Its not all like Sharingan genjutsu where you can pretty much do whatever you want, in other genjutsu the principles are pretty much set and this is validated by the databook. When Kureani performs her genjutsu, she vanishes from sight, trees appear and restrict her enemies and she kills them. That simple. When Tayuya plays her flute, you appear in a fake world and you are restricted by strings and begin to melt. InHashirama's Bringer of Darkness, everything turns dark. In the 2nd Mizukage's clam genjutsu, you see fakes of him and the clam. That is all. Why exactly should Itachi's non Sharingan genjutsu be different from every non Sharingan genjutsu in existence? Aren't we being a bit ridiculous here?
Also, if his non eye contact genjutsu were all that impressive then why would he not use it against Kabuto. Why waste time, energy on Izanami? Because Itachi, in his amazing deductive skills, estimated that it would not work. Now, unto another one of your claims that the crows weren't the beginning of the genjutsu, I'd ask you to go and review that manga again instead of posting a cut-out page that doesn't give the full picture. Naruto emerged from behind the tree and saw Itachi. He attacked with clones and Itachi killed them then he ran at Itachi. It is clear AFTER the genjutsu that Naruto is now a bit closer than when he first saw Itachi. Why? Because he RAN at the Uchiha.(Sorry, can't post links) meaning he only froze when Itach opened his cloak meaning he had his complete freedom before then. If Naruto was already in a genjutsu, wouldn't his shadow clone attempted attack have been a good chance to show that it was all not real? Why did Itachi bother to kill clones that are supposedly products of genjutsu? Also kinda suspicious that you posted a cut out manga page . Trying to trick me? Lol.
Now about the whole eye in the mask thing, how exactly did Kakashi see it then from a GREAT distance away from Obito? Ever consider the reason for the whole not seeing Obito's eye is because he is ACTUALLY capable of deactivating his Sharingan? Its not like Kakashi's that has to always stay on. But against Minato, he most definitely had the Mangekyo activated since he hoped to let Minato's kunai slip through him then warp him into his eye. I see you ignored the whole focus on a spot thing which is like a law of life. I think its more far fetched to assume that a wooden mask has the ability to hide Obito's eye than the fact that a Konoha Hokage knows the dangers of eye contact with a Sharinga user and thius avoided it. Also, if Obito's eye can't be seen then that means light isn't reaching his eye as a result of the mask which can then enter the eyes of others allowing them to see it. This will also mean Obito would be UNABLE to see since light isn't reaching his eye(look up the process of sight). Supporting this fact is Kabuto hiding his eye to prevent genjutsu but also blinding himself in the process.
Now Amaterasu is not like a bullet. Its not tiny, it gets progressive larger and has always been manifested as big enough to cover a major part of any shinobi's torso. Its BIG and NOTICEABLE which is why I used a bottle and not a dart as an example. To insinuate otherwise is a major folly on your part. The tiny one Sasuke shot on a Samurai engulfed the dude's entire armor! Now there's a reason which the eye has an ENTIRE field of vision. This means it can see many thing at once like you seated at the compluter can seeer, the table its on, anything around the monitot and all that. If a sudden anomaly like a ball of black fire coming at you will certainly get your attention and Minato can see Amaterasu coming since he has super reflexes that allowed him see Raikage(a man faster than Amaterasu). So mMinato can see Amaterasu coming from anywhere in front of him because of his field of vision and his reflexes.
Because Itachi is different.. We've seen him cast genjutsu on deidara and faking an entire fight..from the beginning Deidara was in the genjutsu.. Reality was simulated so perfectly he didn't realize..
We've seen him do it in finger genjutsu for a little while, naruto didn't realize what was going on
We've seen him do it with epheramal, untill he decided to show naruto he was already in it..
We've seen him do it on BEE, bee was fighting for a while and he didn't realize at all..
Itachi, pretty much as far as I can recall is the only ninja in that manga that has done this..
As I said , Naruto was put into the genjutsu when he landed.. sometime after itachi killed those clones.. look at the tree naruto is at before charging..note where he stops when itachi opens his cloak and says "you're already in my genjutsu"
Now note where he is when it's ended.. SAME tree he started at... If it started with the crows, he would have been a bit closer to Itachi, mid way or so between tree 1 and tree 2
You have to remember that it was also night time...late at night.. with kakashi it was day time.. there are times when deidara and tobi were close together and he NEVER saw his sharigan..
We've seen that Amaterasu sort of "hovers" near the target initially (see Sasuke vs A), so Minato, who arguably has the best reflexes in the manga, can still actually dodge it without looking for the signs of blood coming out of Itachi's eyes, or such. Tsukuyomi is the biggest threat here, but Minato wont have to make eye contact as long as either Gamabunta or Amaterasu's initial signs warn him of it (Amaterasu) coming, as that's the biggest threat against someone fighting Itachi without making eye contact.
I see Itachi winning more times than not. Minato off the bat would try to spread his ftg markings, but Itachi has 2 good counters to avoid ftg even with minimal knowledge. For Minato's kunai seals he can deflect them with his superior shuriken skills. Now for his ground seals he can avoid from the use of his sharigan because the sharigan will give off the color of the seals.
As for Minato's least likely summoning trick those can also be disposed with ease with amaterasu,toska blade, or even genjutsu. Rasengan is useless against even a ribcage susanoo and with ftg already avoided Minato will have a hard time hitting Itachi.
Itachi also remains consistent with utilizing genjutsu and flexing his genjutsu prowss on his opponents. Itachi has two forms of genjutsu, his stronger ones that require eye contact and weaker ones that don't. Minato hasn't shown any kind of genjutsu feats or dealing with genjutsu.
How does Minato plan on evading ITachi's genjutsu when he has to make eye contact to avoid amaterasu? and vice versa? Questions like these are always avoided against Minato supporters.
Minato is at a absurd disadvantage against fighting Itachi.
FTG kunai-deflect with shurikens,set up genjutsu w. Itachi's surperior handseals
fTg ground seals- Sharigan gives off color, can be avoided.
How does Minato plan on evading ITachi's genjutsu when he has to make eye contact to avoid amaterasu? and vice versa? Questions like these are always avoided against Minato supporters.
If it really works like that, same can be said on everybody else fighting Itachi(Hashirama, Nagato included), but i never understand why it's only against Minato, that people say these kind of stuffs. Anyway i already replied concerning that on my first post
Besides, he has Amaterasu or Susanoo. But we have seen that Raikage with Shunshin alone was able
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. This pic also shows that eventhough Amaterasu is instant, there is a formation time where the flames have to appear before engulfing the target. This time is enough for someone with great speed like Raikage or an instant teleportation jutsu like Minato to dodge it without problems
If it really works like that, same can be said on everybody else fighting Itachi(Hashirama, Nagato included), but i never understand why it's only against Minato, that people say these kind of stuffs. Anyway i already replied concerning that on my first post
That is just a part of evaluating the match up. I've never seen Itachi's full abilities left out against anyone. Hashirama and Nagato are just people who can counter Itachi's arsenal.
What is a Healthy Itachi? (to me)
A Healthy Itachi to me would mean that Itachi is no longer hindered by the sickness that plagued him during his fight with Sasuke (obviously) He would also have a fresh eyes (i wont go crazy with this). His Stamina would also be much Higher, In databook rankings around a 3 or a 3.5. Chakra control essentially evens out any stamina arguments.
*this argument originally had manga pages, but due to the internet going crazy on me i had to omit them due to me not being able to search them.
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I will break this down into scenario's of combat.
Disclaimer: I've omited Izanami since it will not affect Minato
CQC:
First of all, Itachi and Minato have about the same Shunshin and Base speed levels, In a battle of speed (body movement) however, Itachi would have the advantage due to Sharingan and what we can assume are superior Taijutsu skills.
Both combatants have deadly jutsu that can essentially assure victory.
- Minato's Being "Tagging", Making it impossible for Itachi to Defend against the ensuing assault.
- Itachi's Being Mind Raping Genjutsu like Tsukiyomi or his other plethora of Genjutsu that could end Minato.
Itachi has some other notable advantages over Minato other than the Sharingan if they went hand to hand
- Far superior hand seal speed (Two Sharigan user's couldn't follow his hand speed)
- Karasu Bunshin
- Superior Mid Range Jutsu arsenal
- Supeior use of Kunai and Shruiken
- Superior Kawarimi (even fooled a Sharingan user)
With all of these Advantages Itachi has many ways of besting Minato. He would have the option of overcoming Minato in hand to hand with his Sharingan and superior Taijutsu and land a mind Rapeing Genjutsu in the same fashion he did to Kakashi. If this can't be accomplished, Itachi can call on a Karasu Bunshin by working in his near instant Hand seal spead in a opening of Minato's Offensive and overcome Minato in tandum with his Bunshin. If they break apart by some chance Itachi's use of Kunai and Shruiken will overcome any attempt at Minato mounting his own offense with Ninja Tools. Itachi also has the option of using a point blank Amaterasu that in turn would be to fast for Minato to teleport away due to Amaterasu being at its fastest (even faster than when Sasuke used it on the Raikage). If Itachi becomes spooked and needs to catch a break, he simple need activate a low level of Susanoo and he will be completely shielded from any of Minato's own Jutsu, He also has a Karasu Kawarimi that could get the job done just as nicely. Exploding Mizubunshin Shenanigans would also knock Minato down a notch. Finger Genjutsu has a low probability of working, but its another option.
The beauty of Itachi's Arsenal is that its Anti-FTG.
Cat and Mouse:
This is what would ensue after Minato relizes CQC is a hopeless battle. Minato would essentially try to scatter FTG tags and get distance to allow him to rely on his reactions to escape Itachi's Jutsu (Mainly Amaterasu) with FTG
*Quick note: Minato can Dodge Itachi's Ama with just Shunshin given to proper distance, but there is a hot-zone that would require FTG to escape.
Itachi's Awnser to this is using a smaller Amaterasu (the one he used on the crow that contained shisui's eye) that would be less chakra taxing, on reaction to Minato teleporting. Itachi can reduce the number of Tagged Kunai by using Katon: Gōkakyū no Jutsu or again, the small less chakra taxing Amaterasu. Karasu Bunshin can also help harrass Minato into a mistake.
Other Bits:
-Using Complete Susano'O to battle Minato would be largely useless and ineffective as an offensive measure. Since Itachi has all the bases covered when it comes to battling Minato himself, The only use for Complete Susano'O would be to combat multiple Giant toads with Totsuka so Itachi doesn't have to waste chakra on multiple Amaterasu.
-The Location also give's Itachi another option in dealing with Giant toads. He can use Amaterasu on the forest and move the battle into the forrest. Amaterasu would spread and barr entrance to any toad.
-Using Genjutsu or Kunai shenanigans are also some possible option to dealing with Giant toads, but these are highly unlikely to be effective.
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All in all, Healthy Itachi has this Securely Locked down. Sick Itachi would make for a much more interesting Debate (and honestly be alot easier to debate.)
